The Helminth: Dev Workshop

[Grey_Star_Rival_Defender]

Just now, nslay said:

You don't need a better operator. You just need a better Amp. I didn't exploit any operator capabilities when I did it. A clan mate used Volt and made the fight faster by using the Amp through the shield.

What I didn't like was that you need to kill some enemies sometimes or the mission will timeout. Usually I just ignore all the enemies and focus on bosses. Very annoying that...

I don't have the patience to get a better Amp either. I got a 1/1/1, that was good enough for regular Flydolon, didn't bother with anything else. And I'm not keen on half an hour being wasted because of the fight taking too long and DE's antiquated mission timers kicking it despite them making missions longer and longer. Even if I regularly kill the adds it probably won't extend the time long enough. Plus I'd need a better Operator to get more hunts done so I can get a better Amp.

[(PSN)surreptitiously]

So, they've made these changes "based on Feedback and testing" ?

Who's feedback, no-one outside of DE has played the Helminth System, so how can you have feedback ! 

Eidolons, Orb Mothers, Sorties, Elite Sanctuary Onslaught, Steel Path, Heminth System, all "Endgame" content watered down for beginners.

I've played this game everyday for over 6 years and there is nothing here to challenge me... and it looks like there never will 😞

[_Glaurung_]

6 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

EDIT: We have also changed the Mastery Rank Prerequisite of the Helminth Segment to 8 (was 15).

We've been here before with liches. You guys seriously didn't learn anything from that?

 

Edit: As for the diminished abilities...I'll wait and see just how bad they are. But you aren't giving much reason to hold out hope DE

[Unitanubis]

Amazing job on selecting strong abilities and a bunch of useless ones then nerfing the most generally useful ones. The weakest abilities should be brought up or swapped for other abilities to compete with the top ones to provide players with more choice.  DE kept hyping it as endgame then drops it to mastery 8. DE went from being a great example of a pretty medicore/common dev that is out of touch with the player base. We have content islands, broken promises, false/misleading statements made to players, mechanics that bypass rivens get nerfed, multiple layers of rng for grinding, nerfs that make it clear that DE is stuck between two types of general gameplay style, lack or endgame, the classic difficult = more HP+armour+shields, and continously overwhelming new players with content making MR meaningless for the most part.

[Sahiratu]

I don't like these changes. MR 8 still a newbie... but that's not the problem, the problem is, if you nerf all the abilities this will have no reason at all to even exist.

Why would I farm a frame for a nerf to the ground skill?

For real, better keep the skills like it's supposed to be and just then change if needed, after launch.

[MagpieFlowerheart]

am of the sad was really hyped and was really enjoying the grind of getting all the base frames a second time. was enjoying that id finally have something for me to tell the new players i help through the early game a nice goal for later game not even late game, and all the hype vanished cause while 2 of the abilities i was looking forward to are being nerfed. non of the bad ones are being meaningfully buffed. plus i was enjoying the comment of it being mr 15 and not being reduced, and there it goes down to mr 8 just like practically everything else. yet again i still have no comeback to my friend that insists there is no point going past mr 16 and hardly any reason to pass mr 8. after all every system in the game officially opens at mr 8, by mr 16 youve unlocked every weapon and every riven.
so not to be mean but i have a question for DE do you guys want player retention at this point? ive heard the stat that mr 12 is the average mr of currently active players and thus i understand its tempting to drop the mr but if you never add any new system for players to obtain past mr 8 youre players will never strive to go higher.
also im pretty sure back when this started you guys had said you weren't planning on nerfing abilities but buffing the bad ones to increase choice. and no offence but 2 abilities buffed against 6 nerfed does not fullfill that statement infact quite the opposite. at least go 50/50 and add a meaning full buff to every nerf zephyr really doesn't count imo
and finally didn't wukongs defy already have capped armour?

[(PSN)lonewolf894]

6 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

EDIT: We have also changed the Mastery Rank Prerequisite of the Helminth Segment to 8 (was 15).

DE "Hey here's an idea let's do everything the opposite what the players want I'm sure they'll love it" mr should be set to 20 if anything and the abilities should have been buffed or left alone not this never this

[Grey_Star_Rival_Defender]

1 minute ago, _Glaurung_ said:

We've been here before with liches. You guys seriously didn't learn anything from that?

Why the heck can a newbie access above-Sortie level Grineer before they can access Helminth.

[staranow]

Lowering the MR to 8 instead of 15... Why DE? Its so easy to get to MR 8 that's new player territory. MR 15 isn't hard to get either but at least you should have some idea how to play the game, mod and build by that point.

And then ability nerfs to good abilities instead buffs to the weaker ones. Really DE? Is this where you are now? Welp, all my hype is dead now so thanks for that I guess. MR 29 here by the way...

Why don't you just start banning your vets, since you clearly don't want them to play your game anymore geez😠

[3rdpig]

I don't even know why they bothered coming out with this or nerfing it now or after release. The game is easy. Even the big bosses are easy once you get your build right and understand the means to beat them.

I mean really, what's the point in more power when it's not needed? What's the point in nerfing a powerful new ability when even without that ability the game is too easy?

Honestly, I fail to understand they're thinking, it plumb evades me. When I heard about the Helminth system I thought "Why? So someone can shave off X amount of seconds from a speed run or maybe kill another Tridolon in one one night?".

[iFlipWiGs]

7 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

AUGUST 19TH UPDATE:

Greetings, Tenno!

The launch of Heart of Deimos grows near, and we have some Helminth updates since we last posted! Below are 2 parts of updated/clarifying information that touches both Infused Warframe Abilities and the Helminth Segment acquisition.  

PART 1 - Changes to select Infused Warframe Abilities

Please keep in mind we’re still testing/playing around with the values for each, hence why the values are not present below:

The following only apply to Infused Warframe Abilities:

Rhino - Roar
Diminished Damage increase

Mirage - Eclipse
Diminished Damage increase and cap Damage Reduction 

Valkyr - Warcry
Attack speed increase reduced

Protea - Dispenser
Duration reduced

Nidus - Larva
Radius reduced

Wukong - Defy
Armor capped

Why do these Infused Warframe Abilities have these rules?
It was apparent in player feedback and play testing that these Infused Warframe Abilities had the potential to be the overwhelming choice; which is not ideal. Instead of changing the Ability outright due to those concerns, we decided to give them slight rules when Infused.

PART 2 - Helminth Segment Acquisition

As already indicated in this Dev Workshops original post, the Helminth Segment is acquired in the Heart of Deimos in the Entrati Syndicate. To expand on that, this means you’ll need to progress within the Entrati Syndicate located within the Necralisk to obtain the Helminth Segment before you can start experimenting with everything Helminth. 

Without spoiling too much, the Helminth Segment is currently obtained in Rank 3 of the Entrati Syndicate. This reminder is simply to set expectations on what you’ll have access to upon logging into the Heart of Deimos. 

That’s all for now!

I was slightly excited for this update now I am back to asking myself why do I even keep playing this game lol. There is a reason the player numbers keep falling drastically lets see how long it takes to be figured out 

[Samel-the-Camel]

Thanks for killing the hype

[LordPantaloonsthe3rd]

4 minutes ago, kgabor said:

This! It utterly breaks the game.

I need Zephyr to keep being the op frame.

with the addition of the succ functionality it is effectively 100% more useful than it was, theres no way we can allow such an ability to be transferable to other frames at its full effectiveness

 

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

Some of those abilities I'd like to stay, some I don't even know how DE in their right mind even put them there. But one thing is for sure; if they're going to gimp abilities on such a system then maybe those abilities shouldn't be there in the first place - maybe they should be replaced with other abilities that are less meta but still offer their full power.

All I see is a very obvious band aid to a poorly planned system, not "balance", as some would imply.

[(PSN)poloslash18]

Welp. There goes my hype.

GG.

 

 

[_Glaurung_]

2 minutes ago, Grey_Star_Rival_Defender said:

Why the heck can a newbie access above-Sortie level Grineer before they can access Helminth.

I can't fathom the logic behind either of those systems. Here's hoping it's some corporate suit at the top making these terrible decisions and not the devs (but I wouldn't be surprised at this point).

[quietcanary]

27 minutes ago, (NSW)Kokojo said:

Then make a video complaning about how DE nerf the fun.

I see

Hey it would still be a bad idea to do it, but at least they would have given us the actual chance to test it and be ignored rather than to be ignored before we even have a chance to pretend to be involved. If you are suprised that gaz would be honest with his opinion if the end result doesn't change then I don't know what to tell you.

 

[(XBOX)Mr Daddy Dax]

...AND YOU brought the MR requirement down from 15 to 8!???? C'mon DE!? This was supposed to be "endgame' content. MR 15 was a good choice. It made me feel like it was specifically aimed at more veteran players....MR 8 is encroaching noob territory. Idk, maybe if you can give us an acceptable explanation as to why these changes are being implemented it might help us to understand the thought process behind them, because right now I'm having serious dejavu . . . I may of been able to deal with "diminishing values and caps" but now that nearly every player will be able to access this system without putting in the hours and getting much needed experience.... I'm quite dissapointed.  😞

[iSiawPrime]

On 2020-08-12 at 1:27 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

It was apparent in player feedback and play testing that these Infused Warframe Abilities had the potential to be the overwhelming choice

What about Loki’s Decoy? Or literally every other ability that’s not even worth subsuming? People have been asking for a buff or rework for who knows how long. 

Is buffing and ability not considered feedback? Is it feedback only when you nerf stuff?

And who participated in the “play testing”, or when was this play test even mentioned? Gives us the full details, not just “we’re nerfing fun because we say so”

[ShogunGunshow]

Maybe, if those abilities were too strong, you.... shouldn't... have chosen them?

Because it was incredibly obvious that they were?

[Heirborne]

DE: we did not intend really strong ability x, to be a fan favorite, sorry we wanted you to be excited about inaros's dessicate more.

[Finedaible]

6 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

To offer further clarification on why we changed the Mastery Rank Prerequisite to MR 8:

There's many factors that come into play in order to engage with the Helminth system, such as:

• Having an ongoing supply of Resources that you don't need elsewhere to feed your Helminth
• Working your way up the Helminth rankings to unlock more features
• Having Warframes your ready/willing to Subsume

Looking at the above, we can see that higher rank players will be more equipped to offer these things to Helminth out the gate, where a MR 8 player will start with more accessible/cheaper Helminth Abilities first before diving deeper. Thus allowing MR 8 players to participate in Helminth and grow as they go.

On the subject of activities surrounding higher MR (or 'late-game'), I'd like to make a comparison to Empyrean. When Empyrean and Railjacks launched we were kind of under the impression RJs would be a late-game activity for advanced players, and I personally kind of feel like Empyrean was simplified a little too much to make it accessible to newer players (you only need to be MR 3 and have completed Second Dream if I remember correctly). When the Murex Raid event came (Scarlet Spear), lower mastery rank players found themselves struggling with late-game content they were not yet equipped to handle. Not that this is a problem in itself, Empyrean has certainly gotten a lot better with the last changes, but it kinda feels like there's not as much progression within Empyrean anymore as a result. The only thing holding a newer player back would be the resource costs obviously but those have been reduced substantially since launch so I'm not sure that is as much a hindrance as it was before. So i guess what I want to take away from that is that MR15 for the Helminth system makes more sense for progression, at least from my perspective (MR 28). If DE does decide to lower the mr restriction to 8, that is fine and I won't complain because it will not affect me, but I think it would be healthier for player progression if it stayed at MR15. 

[Grey_Star_Rival_Defender]

4 minutes ago, _Glaurung_ said:

I can't fathom the logic behind either of those systems. Here's hoping it's some corporate suit at the top making these terrible decisions and not the devs (but I wouldn't be surprised at this point).

An enemy you cannot possibly fight and requires the (heroic sacrifice) aid of your elders to defeat is fine at MR5. But you need to be at least MR8 to put Mind Control over Radial Javelin.

I'm worried this is DE themselves, not any overlords.

[Totterson]

Gotta admit I'm a bit impressed that this workshop got more changes than the healing defense objectives workshop did as an aside.

 

All it took was countless threads of people moaning and groaning. Obviously nobody cared enough about healing defense objectives.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

Classic example.

"Hmm ripline doesn't get used much. Let's remove the most used archwing ability and replace it with that".

At least this time they actually playtested it before release, although why they didn't realise this straight away is still laughable.