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The Helminth: Dev Workshop

[DE]Rebecca

By [DE]Rebecca,
in Developer Workshops

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(XBOX)MetalxPhoenix

(XBOX)MetalxPhoenix

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, ShogunGunshow said:

Maybe, if those abilities were too strong, you.... shouldn't... have chosen them?

Because it was incredibly obvious that they were?

This.

Should've been Charge, Sleight of Hand, Grenade Fan, Virulence respectively. They follow the blueprint this system intended to follow. Would've kept people's expectations in check and we wouldn't be having this outrage and saves the time of play testing them and changing values.

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KingTaltia

KingTaltia

Posted
Posted

Personally, looking SUPER forward to the new system. I agree with lowering the MR requirement, but I do think MR8 is a bit too low, I'd say around MR11-12 is the point players get used to the game nowadays. 8 is a bit dangerous for Newbies, which let's face it, should be priority 1.

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Voltage

Voltage

Posted
Posted
14 minutes ago, ShogunGunshow said:

Maybe, if those abilities were too strong, you.... shouldn't... have chosen them?

Because it was incredibly obvious that they were?

If DE could realize this sort of thing ahead of time, we would have never gotten Riven Mods. Disposition doubles down on a bad system for the same reason DE is nerfing abilities instead of admitting this system is a huge mistake. I will keep comparing this Helminth system to Riven Mods until DE changes their tone with how they treat abilities. Roar is not a Disposition. You can't just turn down Roar and expect other abilities to suddenly compete. It's a multiplicative damage multiplier. It's like a Faction mod for all factions across your entire arsenal. Understand that fundamentally this skill is good and impossible to balance if given to any Warframe to use.

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tarfeef101

tarfeef101

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Not a fan of these changes, especially the syndicate and MR stuff. The nerfs to infused abilities, I'll wait to see the values. Just remember you could always pick better abilities from other frames, or buff the ones chosen rather than nerf these ones, and I don't think they were so amazing that was necessary. 

The mastery rank change just feels like yet another case of DE promising they'll do something for vets, and immediately capitulating to the cries of inexperienced players who want this to put another tank ability on their inaros which doesn't need it anyways, especially not on the 5 waves of hydron they bring him to. If you're gonna make noob-friendly content, fine. Set out to do it that way, and follow through. Revamped new player experience is an example of how to do that. But if you say you're gonna make a veteran-focused system/mode, do it. Don't claim you will then immediately scale back the difficulty and requirements to engage with it, and don't pull a steel path and make the enemies so tanky it's almost a chore in most game modes (though some do have their benefits from say, increased spawn rates), rather than a quick way to make the levels more meaningful.

Also the syndicate thing is annoying, I'd prefer to just have it unlock at the end of the quest, and don't let us interact until we hit the MR requirement.

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Liv.Somik

Liv.Somik

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MR8 is not endgame, hell it isn't even mid level. Now you're just making this new player content, causing them to burn out quicker and make it less special for the veterans. 

 

And nerfing subsume abilities is even more stupid. Those abilities are not broken, they are unable to break every frame like certain people claim. You have to consider if they synergize with other frames' abilities to maximize the benefit.

Like of course we can put Warcry on every frame and make their melee hit faster, but why would we do that? If I want to focus on melee when don't I just use Valkyr? 

Of course we can put Roar on every frame, but Ember's, Banshee's, Mag's, Zephyr abilities still do S#&$ty damage. 

Of course we can put dispenser on every frame, but when we can just use pads, why would we waist the slot on this ability?

 

There is no reason to nerf the abilities, THEY WILL NOT BREAK THE GAME. If you nerf them to S#&$, no one's gonna use them, then why don't you just choose another ability? 

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Masgrenade

Masgrenade

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On 2020-08-12 at 1:27 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

THE HELMINTH: DEV WORKSHOP.

Looking at this its plain to see that unless there's some super secret closed beta no player's influenced this at all

Right now everyone wants buffed bad abilities and you want to nerf the really good ones, this sounds like a system you already have in place hmmmm. 

I can't believe nobody thought of using a system similar to riven disposition on these subsumed abilities which would give LITERALLY EVERYONE what they want.

Also at Mr 8 I had 3 frames, and your saying that I have to option to get rid of a third of my frames on a bad judgement.

If you were just going to lower the mastery rank why did you not discuss this internally before announcement, going back on favoured  decisions doesn't really give the idea of a stable company.

P.s. First post here and on mobile so I probably messed some formatting up, my bad 

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1st-1

1st-1

Posted
Posted

Endgame content, veteran content.. 🤣😂

and i havn't seen the content in their "new open world".. probably more bounties & reputation i guess.. just like fortuna.. ? 😮

and now this..

Oh, btw.. can u fix kuva ayanga ? still doing self dmg.. i just put it there, its probably a very hard thing to fix considering it still there a few months later 🙂

Peace. 🤣

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Loza03

Loza03

Posted
Posted

If DE reveals things in advance to be given a once-over by the playerbase, but don't listen to feedback, and release it overpowered, they get criticised for doing so.

If DE does listen to feedback, and tone it back in response to that feedback, they get criticised for doing so.

If DE doesn't publicise their releases and goes radio silent in order to manage expectations by never setting any, they get criticised for doing so.

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(XBOX)MetalxPhoenix

(XBOX)MetalxPhoenix

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Posted
5 minutes ago, Voltage said:

You can't just turn down Roar and expect other abilities to suddenly compete. It's a multiplicative damage multiplier. It's like a Faction mod for all factions across your entire arsenal. Understand that fundamentally this skill is good and impossible to balance if given to any Warframe to use.

Agreed. It won't matter if you tune it to base strength only. It's still 50% = 1.5x multiplier including abilities. It's still going to be better than 90% of the whole Workshop unless they change it.

Charge fits perfectly in the system. I don't understand why they are beating their head play testing and changing values trying to keep Roar "in line with other abilities".

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Voltage

Voltage

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Posted
5 minutes ago, Liv.Somik said:

MR8 is not endgame, hell it isn't even mid level. Now you're just making this new player content, causing them to burn out quicker and make it less special for the veterans. 

 

And nerfing subsume abilities is even more stupid. Those abilities are not broken, they are unable to break every frame like certain people claim. You have to consider if they synergize with other frames' abilities to maximize the benefit.

Like of course we can put Warcry on every frame and make their melee hit faster, but why would we do that? If I want to focus on melee when don't I just use Valkyr? 

Of course we can put Roar on every frame, but Ember's, Banshee's, Mag's, Zephyr abilities still do S#&$ty damage. 

Of course we can put dispenser on every frame, but when we can just use pads, why would we waist the slot on this ability?

 

There is no reason to nerf the abilities, THEY WILL NOT BREAK THE GAME. If you nerf them to S#&$, no one's gonna use them, then why don't you just choose another ability? 

Why should I ever play Valkyr if Inaros can just have her only good ability and be much tankier? Or Wisp, who actually has a completely better kit, health regen, and will get even more attack speed than Valkyr. What is Warframe identity when I can just create a synergy that just becomes disgusting in the use I have it for and outshines any standard Warframe kit for that use? Why should I ever use Chroma in Eidolons if my Volt Prime can cast Shock Trooper, Roar, and then fire through shields for more Critical Damage? Why play Mirage in Profit Taker if my Volt can use Eclipse? 

This system does create massive issues when it comes to certain abilities, and these abilities need to be changed up.

Nerfing abilities is stupid because it highlights that DE does not see the fundamental problem with some abilities they listed for subsuming.

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Sickle_Slayer

Sickle_Slayer

Posted
Posted

It's good that you're making these changes beforehand.

But we really will need the numbers for How these abilities are going to be changed/capped.

Otherwise you're having players spend time prepping and farming for hours on something that might not even be worth it because we don't know enough about it.

Mastery Rank (sidenote):

Kinda sad to see that it was lowered so low.... MR 8 takes no time at all to get to. I was looking forward to something that really felt like it was a reward meant for the players who have put time into the game

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