Twisted_Wisdom Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 7 hours ago, mikakor said: because it breaks the point of the system. it's made to enjoy the abilities of the warframe we sacrifice to the Helmith. to enjoy the ability. i don't want to enjoy the ability-5 that i'll get. and knowing DE, they'll make the abilities absolute crap. they always go the easy way. nerf the few good ones rather than buffing the mediocre ones. and in one of the past devstreams, i think it was Steve that said, we arent going to nerf the good stuff any more, we are going to bring the other mediocre items up to a better standard instead. Then Bramma was nerfed, and now this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redfeather75 Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 33 minutes ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said: I agree with the thread title but not it's contents. Sorry for cursing. I was really surly. I was so hyped for a cool thing to play with. But I vowed that I was done farming syndicate. I quit warframe before, and now it is no different. I am disappointed I even cared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arimai Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 7 hours ago, [DE]Megan said: To offer further clarification on why we changed the Mastery Rank Prerequisite to MR 8: There's many factors that come into play in order to engage with the Helminth system, such as: Having an ongoing supply of Resources that you don't need elsewhere to feed your Helminth Working your way up the Helminth rankings to unlock more features Having Warframes your ready/willing to Subsume Looking at the above, we can see that higher rank players will be more equipped to offer these things to Helminth out the gate, where a MR 8 player will start with more accessible/cheaper Helminth Abilities first before diving deeper. Thus allowing MR 8 players to participate in Helminth and grow as they go. This doesnt make sense at all, if the idea is to let new players enjoy the new helminth system, why even bother to nerf some of the abilities already listed? i am literally amazed at how close minded you guys have become, to the point of nerfing something that hasnt been EVEN RELEASED YET. So whats the point in the end? have players progressively "grow" to attain mediocre abilities that still required a lot of resources and investment into it? (according to what you guys say) and MR8 is an experienced player? why do you need to attain everthing to new players all the time? new players have loads of content to burn trough and mr8 is nowhere near to be close to the point where another layer of customization is good for them, heck this is just going to confuse them even more, warframe is already overwhelming with all the content new players see, and now you add another one that they wont even use while unnecessarily ignoring your veterans? aka the people that are willing to help your game? the people willing to spend money on it? aka the people that DO CARE and have invested thousands of hours into your game? for what? for some new casuals that will probably see the update, fidget with it for a bit and then leave because its too complicated? Maybe start giving more attention to your actual player base instead of that old innacurate guide that you follow so damn much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milinko Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 O 8 hours ago, [DE]Megan said: AUGUST 19TH UPDATE: Greetings, Tenno! The launch of Heart of Deimos grows near, and we have some Helminth updates since we last posted! Below are 2 parts of updated/clarifying information that touches both Infused Warframe Abilities and the Helminth Segment acquisition. PART 1 - Changes to select Infused Warframe Abilities Please keep in mind we’re still testing/playing around with the values for each, hence why the values are not present below: The following only apply to Infused Warframe Abilities: Rhino - Roar Diminished Damage increase Mirage - Eclipse Diminished Damage increase and cap Damage Reduction Valkyr - Warcry Attack speed increase reduced Protea - Dispenser Duration reduced Nidus - Larva Radius reduced Wukong - Defy Armor capped Why do these Infused Warframe Abilities have these rules? It was apparent in player feedback and play testing that these Infused Warframe Abilities had the potential to be the overwhelming choice; which is not ideal. Instead of changing the Ability outright due to those concerns, we decided to give them slight rules when Infused. PART 2 - Helminth Segment Acquisition As already indicated in this Dev Workshops original post, the Helminth Segment is acquired in the Heart of Deimos in the Entrati Syndicate. To expand on that, this means you’ll need to progress within the Entrati Syndicate located within the Necralisk to obtain the Helminth Segment before you can start experimenting with everything Helminth. Without spoiling too much, the Helminth Segment is currently obtained in Rank 3 of the Entrati Syndicate. This reminder is simply to set expectations on what you’ll have access to upon logging into the Heart of Deimos. That’s all for now! oh wow I miraculously don't care about this system anymore. Yet another system made to be accessible by new players after being told it was for Veterans and nerfs to match. Instead of buffing the bad abilities you put on the list you nerfed the good ones. You said it was not for the faint of heart and had an mr 15 requirement so that people needed more than just 2 weeks of play to get this; nerfed that too. Ultimately didn't even let us actually try it first just said nope to having fun. Nope to giving a reason to be higher MR. Nope to actually balancing the game so individual abilities didn't need to be nerfed. This doesn't make sense to me. Either certain warframes need to actually be considered weaker or stronger comparatively with mr and difficulty to acquire attached to that or all of them need to be balanced to be on par so with one another for Deimos so it isn't just "this ability is too good because we only chose bad abilities from the other warframes so I guess it needs nerf." Why do some warframes scale with rivens and some don't? Why are some warframe abilities have uncapped potential and some do? Why are there nerfs handed out in spades but buffs are only trickled once or twice a year? Why am I sad? All these answers and more coming soon tm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proscriptor Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 1 minute ago, The-Harbinger-of-Malice said: People keep complaning about how "Roar will make everything redundant, its too OP why you do dis" for getting that 1, we evaporat everything in the game anyway, 2, Rhino will still be a reliable frame considering the rest of his kit and 3, there are better options for damage potential. give Mesa roar, cool you can melt things that bit faster, as if it matters considering RIVENS EXIST. 1. you can't put a riven on regulators (mesa's pistols) 2. buffing mesa with roar isn't "that bit faster" it's 2x faster, or better 3. roar is a multiplicative damage bonus on outgoing damage meaning +damage on rivens in no way diminishes the value of the buff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arimai Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 3 minutes ago, The-Harbinger-of-Malice said: People keep complaning about how "Roar will make everything redundant, its too OP why you do dis" forgetting that 1, we evaporat everything in the game anyway, 2, Rhino will still be a reliable frame considering the rest of his kit and 3, there are better options for damage potential. give Mesa roar, cool you can melt things that bit faster, as if it matters considering RIVENS EXIST. so basically say screw everything else and just focus on rivens, dont forget to farm a crap ton of prime stuff to sell later or just spend hundreds of dollars to buy plat to later buy rivens, because nothing else matters, just rivens oh and keep using the op frames only. gotcha fam. really nice mindset you have there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Darkrya Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 They probably should have just replaced Roar, Warcry, and Eclipse with their lesser used abilities, buffed the ability in question for the Warframe, then slightly tone it down when subsuming the ability, so it doesn't outclass the regular Warframe. It was smart of them not to put ultimates into the pool, but at this point the "not using a Warframes signature ability" doesn't really mean much when all abilities on that Warframe, animation, and gameplay wise are unique to that Warframe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velitria Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 I would like to point out the Aklex Prime is MR 15 locked for being a "strong" weapon. Basing on the assumption of that and the rest of the mastery lock system, I would conclude the Helminth System should really be locked behind MR 18-20. However, I am very sure 15-16 was fair. Without goals, people do not play your game. Players will cry and cry for what they want but when it comes to progression and goals like these, all you're doing is letting them finish it and quit. All while waiting for the next content update because they're too lazy to play older content that they never played before because it isn't "what all their friends are doing". If you want the game to survive, you need to put limits and restrictions, set goals. If a player is MR 8, sure they can do the Heart of Deimos because it's next to Mars, that makes sense, but the Helminth system should be much much higher since it is legitimately the rivens of warframe powers. It is what gives the players the absolute highest strength amount in the game. The only other thing they would be missing is vault mods, but oh wait, those are now Deimos/Derelict and right next to Earth. Players only needing MR 8 to get the highest power level the game has to offer? YOU don't even need weapons. Did anyone consider any of this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KitMeHarder Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 4 minutes ago, Traubenzuckr said: 3. roar is a multiplicative damage bonus on outgoing damage meaning +damage on rivens in no way diminishes the value of the buff It's additive with faction damage, and thus renders this statement completely false. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milinko Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 26 minutes ago, Decinomic0n said: 30/2 = 20???? 15 is fine, at 16 I have 1000 hours. the amount of master for each tier is exponential so mr 1 through 20 is the same amount as mr 21 through 30 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZzVinniezZ Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 ok sure...they nerf all the good abilities that DE think it would be OP...but give us the exact number of how those said Abilities is reduced compare to the original. give us what we are dealing with here instead of "this ability is nerf due to [reasons]" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldain Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 13 minutes ago, (XB1)MetalxPhoenix said: And better to do now then after the system implemented and have the horde of posts "My time invested" or "Can I get those resources back" or "I farmed x frame for so long only to get nerfed, Can I have my time back?" In the dev workshop thread people are already doing that. The bar continues to slide even lower...before long we'll hit the center of the planet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proscriptor Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 3 minutes ago, KitMeHarder said: It's additive with faction damage, and thus renders this statement completely false. what do rivens have to do with faction damage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rakosta_Kai Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 5 minutes ago, Redfeather75 said: But I vowed that I was done farming syndicate. There's been a faction farm in every open world thus far so the only surprise this time around is that something like this is only set to Rank 3 That's a few days of bounties at most. Absent that, just go play Remnant ( I assume you mean Remnant of the Ashes)... Definitely a great choice and a new DLC incoming too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ichsuisme Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 I’m not bothered by the MR change. This system is a big a time investment and a MR 8 player won’t always be able to have another built frame lined up. Probably once they hit MR 15 they might have only a few subsumed frames. Meanwhile, players without anything worthwhile to do will have already collected most of what they need. Separately though, I do not like the ability changes. If the chosen abilities are already having their numbers tweaked, it doesn’t bring about confidence. If I invest time into this system, will a combination I find & enjoy be tweaked on a whim? I say leave the abilities uncapped. The game is already easy. Extra big numbers don’t really mean anything it just makes certain people feel good. However. I still don’t agree with many of the chosen abilities. So don’t bother changing the numbers, but change some of those abilities please. I like this system but as it stands, many frames will be worthless if sometimes their one and only signature ability is given away — even if it’s artificially made worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeke Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 6 days before the update and you invoke anti-hype. you're throwing more content in the face of newer players when they already have way too much to deal with (going from MR 15 to 8.) and now we gotta assume for the worst on any ability that could be considered useful. How long are we going to go on this rodeo and tug of war over knee jerked decisions? Why does it feel like there's a constant effort to kill player retention and longevity? It's baffling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KitMeHarder Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 2 minutes ago, Traubenzuckr said: what do rivens have to do with faction damage? Because you can get +faction damage on rivens? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proscriptor Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 Just now, KitMeHarder said: Because you can get +faction damage on rivens? yes you can also get a plethora of other undesirable stats on rivens the issue is: do you want to get +faction on rivens? (answer: no) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)TayevionTheGamer Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 Honestly I don't go on forums much and socialize here but this is a exception, I really don't like the recent changes with the helmith system, I don't like it is Now for MR 8 players instead of 15, new player's are getting too much with this new update, and no signs of catering to veteran's/ experienced player's. I am mostly ticked off that the system not 15 (or at least 10.) And I know it is to early to judge but do some of these buffing abilities need a nerf? I hope it is not significant, and why are you focusing on those abilities and not focusing on the abilities that people neglect? I really hope (especially the mastery rank change) changes before release, update no longer sounds as promising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VocaSeiza Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 Warframe Players: " Oh my god, these abilitues are too OP, everybody will be using Roar or Eclipse" Also Warframe Players: "SCREW U DE WHY U NERF" The numbers aren't even out yet smh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)wmiller561 Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 So let's get low MR players to farm duplicate frames and waste resources that they need for other things to get abilities that aren't as good as they are on the original frame. Love it. More please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragmod Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 Man, DE just can't win. First everyone was crying about how strong this system will be. "DE! What were you thinking giving us these abilities!" Now, they make them a tad weaker and y'all are crying about that too. As for the MR reduction, y'all just mad 'cause you have to share your candy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xsoskeleton Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 On 2020-08-13 at 12:27 AM, [DE]Rebecca said: Who is this for?We consider this a customization system for very experienced Warframe players (Mastery Rank 15 8 Prerequisite). We do not intend to let newer players unlock this system. We intentionally placed the Segment deep into progression to ensure only experienced players could access the Segment and begin their journey with Helminth. And oof, it's already baby-fied to cater to newbs. Like bruh MR8 can be obtained in less than 2 weeks (of logged in days, not real hours) how is it even considered experienced? Maybe you should consider having additional or alternative gating like the player having 100-200 mission hours at least to access it? so old players who didnt rank up much can still catch up quick without the need to lower the MR requirement? Because, sure, MR8 was considered high rank, like 6 or 7 years ago. Wake up DE this is no longer 2013-2014 era."We do not intend to let newer players unlock this system. We intentionally placed the Segment deep into progression to ensure only experienced players could access the Segment and begin their journey with Helminth.">"Deep into progression", >Is next to Mars that is 4th planet in progression, not even junction gated from it, >Is just another open world grind that needs a week or two to grind and reach the 3rd rank, Honestly, decisions like this is what makes people keep asking if DE ever cared to actual veterans in their game, when in the end it's just another non-face value but still newb content. Why even lowering the pre-requirement instead of keeping it as is (MR 15), making actual experienced player feel more worth in themselves, and encouraging newbs to rank up further to broaden their arsenal. Yeah call it a salty veteran thing but if the company who's service you use doesn't even make u feel worthy using their service it's just gonna make you slowly giving it up once you are no longer within their targeted audience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loza03 Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 7 minutes ago, Aldain said: In the dev workshop thread people are already doing that. The bar continues to slide even lower...before long we'll hit the center of the planet. Maybe if it goes any lower, it'll start getting higher again on the other side? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proscriptor Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 1 minute ago, VocaSeiza said: Warframe Players: " Oh my god, these abilitues are too OP, everybody will be using Roar or Eclipse an extra special kind of warframe player: oh my god why do people complain roar is OP when you can have +faction on a riven 😐 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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