The Helminth: Dev Workshop

[Aldain]

Just now, Loza03 said:

Maybe if it goes any lower, it'll start getting higher again on the other side?

Depends, we're either going to double back around or just keep going into the negatives.

...Looking around I expect the bar to fall into a black hole any minute now.

[Sweg178]

Wise choice .. this will now validate original warframes with their original ability . 

[ChaoticEdge]

8 hours ago, Padre_Akais said:

Here's the thing...A buff is still a buff even if it isn't as large as the buff they were hoping for.

Even nerfed, the subsumed abilities will generally take the place of abilities the player doesn't normally use anyway...That's a buff.

If the knowledge that the buff isn't 100% of the original keeps the idea of subsuming from being appetizing, then they probably shouldn't subsume for the buff to begin with anyway.

What if they actually "cap" it where it is weak.  The fact we always try make good frame with another frame and then this happen.

[(PSN)SolarPhantom82]

So just like weapons   they will nerf if popular. .  Great. .. DE really doesn’t respect our time since I'v just buld two of these frames. ...

[kevoisvevo]

remnant of ashes is a paid game though. the reason DE is locking helminth is to increase the play time of players on their free to play game. or else you will have many players subsuming their fav abilities and moving down, ignoring the open world regardless of how bad or good it may be.

[iSiawPrime]

What can we expect from this system in the future? Will X ability be nerfed because Y frame is the overwhelming choice?
You already made us waste resources and time and the update isn’t live yet, what guarantee do we have that more nerfs won’t happen?

[_Urakaze_]

Imagine MR8 players actually have 1 mil nano spores to feed helminth lmao

My friend who was MR8 month ago literally don't know how to mod properly, does DE consider them veterans?

Actually, I would like a proper explanation on this, is it because there are too little playerbase currently that have MR15+ so you guys lowered it? Then can you at least do a PSA to explain it?

Also, how bout you buff weaker abilities and only slightly nerf strong ones (how convenient no numbers were given for the nerfs). We are trying to replace our warframe's weak ability with a stronger one, not another crappy one.

[MouadSaqui]

11 minutes ago, Dragmod said:

As for the MR reduction, y'all just mad 'cause you have to share your candy.

honestly ? I dont give a damn about helminth, Mech suits is what I'm in for 

[Rakosta_Kai]

1 minute ago, ChaoticEdge said:

What if they actually "cap" it where it is weak.  The fact we always try make good frame with another frame and then this happen.

Kudos! You did promise to make good use of that meme.😃

As to your question: Those types of nerfs will be inevitable based on potential synergies regardless... But not a likelihood in the near term.

[AzureTerra]

For what its worth they are still going to be good abilities to put on your frame of choice, just with less "overshadowing" of the original frame (because apparently people believe that a frame giving up one of its powers invalidates the whole frame...) Dev Workshops are the place to chop and change a thing before it goes live and the fact that they have player testing finally helps that even more.

[AdrianDragonheart]

Nerfing a system before it's even released is like Banning a card before it's even printed and on sale.

Although yes the expansion doesn't cost a dime, it does damage consumer confidence in future products.

[Aguzo]

16 minutes ago, Dragmod said:

First everyone was crying about how strong this system will be. "DE! What were you thinking giving us these abilities!"

Now, they make them a tad weaker and y'all are crying about that too.

It's almost as if they are two distinct groups

[naturalcandy]

9 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Without spoiling too much, the Helminth Segment is currently obtained in Rank 3 of the Entrati Syndicate. This reminder is simply to set expectations on what you’ll have access to upon logging into the Heart of Deimos. 

 

Universal Medallions work for Entrati Syndicate when lunch or later?

[Dalladir]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Daemon2688 said:

Yea, that would've been nice. Guess you shouldn't have constantly used the word "broken" in your Helminth video.

Don't you blame youtubers for the problems DE created themselves.

[Xylena_Lazarow]

The real reason they nerfed Nidus Larva is to "force" people to spend plat on an extra Khora for her chains because screw grinding SO. At least that's what I'll probably end up doing now... although that or the nerfs honestly bother me less than being "forced" to grind an open world syndicate before I can jump into the content that I really want. Here's hoping DE improves on the failings of the previous open world maps, because low enemy density Infested would be the most boring thing ever.

[(PSN)WretchedMoon]

MR8? Seriously? "Veterans" don't have to engage with even a third of the content and systems available? Seriously, MR is not hard to get. Even when it was MR 15, that's only engaging with half of the content. Just because some players felt that they were "proving" something by staying low MR, you should make them prove they want this. This would have been a reason to make them engage with a "pointless" system. But, no everyone who thinks they're proving something by being MR8, can still stay at MR8, proving that MR is pointless. And that is the only reason I can see lowering it by half of what it was. 

Let them unlock the Helminth at MR8, but not be able to use it until MR15. That gives them a reason to actually go beyond MR8, while letting them level it up while doing so. 

Oh, and notice how that part of the community isn't complaining anymore? Because they got what they wanted. And all it took was to make a little noise online. But people who have engaged with those systems, still have nothing to show for it. Firmly cementing MR as a pointless system. This was a your chance to legitimize MR. A reason for people to use unpopular weapons, engage with content they normally wouldn't. And you blew it. You have to stop catering to new players and niche players. You could give reasons for people to actually stick around, rather than having to cater to new players, because those are the only ones playing anymore. I've been playing for 3 years, and the only difference between me, a 3 year player, and a 7 year vet, is that 7 year vet has a few more cosmetic items from events that happened before I started. The only difference. And I want to complain and say, bring those events back, so I can access them? (Which I do, please bring them back around. It would fill some dead space between updates.) Do you see why veteran players get upset and leave?

[Aldain]

17 minutes ago, Dragmod said:

As for the MR reduction, y'all just mad 'cause you have to share your candy.

Why would it not surprise me if that was the case.

People are acting like the Helminth system is rocket science levels of complex and that a new player's peanut brain couldn't figure it out until they were MR15, when it would magically become a normal brain or something.

If anything we were just going to have the same issue as launch Railjack, vets clear it in a week and never bother with it again, new players give up and stop playing because it is a slog to even get to it in the first place. Though I think it could still be set at MR10 with no problems.

[Xsoskeleton]

1 minute ago, Dalladir said:

Don't you blame youtubers for the problems DE created themselves.

Nah, at some point they synergizes to dilute the problem even further

[HaydenSpirit]

I get the nerfs. This should keep them somewhat in check.

 

I honestly don't why they changed the MR requirement tho. I was pretty excited about this system but now I lost a lot of that excitement. New content isn't on Eris but next to Mars to be easily accessible to newer players (AGAIN) and now even the Helminth system is reduced to MR as low as 8 (I would've been fine with 12). I'm getting "this is for experienced players"-flashbacks here. This just shows that DE still doesn't care about dedicated players but  just shoves new more S#&$ into the new players. This just results in newer players being more and more overwhelmed. 

PLEASE: 

DE make an actually progression chart for new players with mastery checkpoints that are easy to read/understand and unlock specific game systems (syndicates/fissures/sorties/rivens/....) And then keep stuff like the Helminth system and focus for higher MR. This game really needs more streamlining.

[danberhe]

On 2020-08-12 at 6:27 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Who is this for?
We consider this a customization system for very experienced Warframe players (Mastery Rank 15 8 Prerequisite). We do not intend to let newer players unlock this system. We intentionally placed the Segment deep into progression to ensure only experienced players could access the Segment and begin their journey with Helminth.

DE, common.
just because a couple of players need to fill their ego showing they can stay mastery 8 the entire game doesnt mean you should give something like this to every new player.

it was meant to have some kind of "new player lock" for how the system works and mastery 15 was AT LEAST  a decent way to do it 😕

[Rakosta_Kai]

OMG...

All this whining.

[Antris]

A nerf already? due to "player feedback"?? Hah, typical.🥱

At least it isn't after we spent resources like in the kitgun Tombfinger primaries right? Nevermind those frames and materials farmed and waiting in the foundry....

MR change might help players open slots, so its cool.

[Twisted_Wisdom]

How about Helminth access go back to MR15 and need to complete Steel Path before can use it. Then players have more reason to work through everything game provides.
Damn nerfing something we dont even have yet.

[Legger]

I hope there's a lot more to the Heart of Deimos because this just ruined the excitement of the update for a lot of people.

[HeyKnee]

Alright, I usually avoid posting in forums as I know devs are going to make their game how they want. That being said, this game which you have made has a series of players that will always chase "the meta" and there's nothing you can do about it. The idea of a power fantasy in a PVE horde shooter is exactly that, we as your players want to continually improve. Do things better, faster, more efficient. We will always try and do things the best way we can find.

That being said, since your announcement at tennocon, I've been most excited for this system, trying to figure out what combinations I might want and where. Before this workshop post came out I was trying to guess which frames I'd want first and started farming. I've been farming for frames every day since then. And now, before we even have a chance to actually try out things we've been theorizing and planning for, you've nerfed some abilities, quite a few I wanted to play around with myself actually. To make it worse you don't even have final numbers for us to decide whether these abilities are worthless now or not. And instead of making other options more appealing, you've just made this whole system less appealing. You've made me question, have I waisted my last two weeks playing your game? Probably. Am I still hyped for this system? Nah. Because at the end of the day, whatever you do, we will always try to figure out the best way to do a thing. And then you'll need it. Over and over again. Instead of letting us figure out how we want to play and have fun in your game you think you need to nerf us enjoying your game. So thanks.