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MR8 I'd say unbelievable, but this is par for the course. DE refuses to give any system to veteran players. There's nothing stopping noobs from learning how Warframe works but let's be honest. Being able to do this side by side with everybody who has a better grasp? Why do they even need to bother to learn the game? This has been the first time I've been genuinely disgusted. I mean really. Along side the enemy armor scaling nerf there is absolutely zero content that can't be blown through like paper mache by the totally clueless.

And nerfing Rhino's Roar? Frankly Roar wasn't even my first choice for Rhino for some semblance of balance, I'm not going to raise much of a stink over that particularly. But I dislike the approach. One of the favorite lines I've heard from a game developer was in an interview for Dead Space 2. Said something along the lines of how the Plasma Cutter in Dead Space 1 was so good it discouraged players from trying other weapons. But they said they'd never make the Plasma Cutter worse. They tried to make everything else better.

And warframes are going to be a lot better, just in general. It wasn't the worst thing in the world that warframes had an ability or two in their kit that just wasn't useful most of the time. Enemies need to be scaled back up. Steel Path needs to have better rewards to justify the effort.

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Oh no DE did the thing everyone should have expected them to do. Oh the horror of needing to work on something for a couple of days that you were going to do already.

This is truly a tragedy that has befallen the entire community./s

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2 minutes ago, Nox_Terminus said:

You think its fine to ask for someone to farm and build a warframe and then sacrifice it, only to get a fraction of one ability? I think not.

Also the current cap for Defy is 1500, if they intend to make that cap even lower, then it will be lower than 1500. Are you going to get mad over a boring defense buff getting a nerf?

Also Warcry's slow only applies to enemies in the initial cast radius, which means very few enemies if you're building for strength and duration.

Tbh I really don't use these abilities, that's my bad. But even a blind man could've seen this coming. I'm not surprised, but I am disappointed

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So, DE just outright admitting that all future uses for the new system is already going the way of rivens and any useful powers will be subject to nerfs if overused, no matter the actual context.  All resources and time spent on the system are just going to be wasted, anything useful will be made worthless.  On top of lying about buffing weaker powers to be of any worth to even attempt to make them worth slotting.  Just throw it all under the parade of bus's and call it a day.  Very brave of them.

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hace 1 hora, Voltage dijo:

Why should I ever play Valkyr if Inaros can just have her only good ability and be much tankier? Or Wisp, who actually has a completely better kit, health regen, and will get even more attack speed than Valkyr. What is Warframe identity when I can just create a synergy that just becomes disgusting in the use I have it for and outshines any standard Warframe kit for that use? Why should I ever use Chroma in Eidolons if my Volt Prime can cast Shock Trooper, Roar, and then fire through shields for more Critical Damage? Why play Mirage in Profit Taker if my Volt can use Eclipse? 

This system does create massive issues when it comes to certain abilities, and these abilities need to be changed up.

Nerfing abilities is stupid because it highlights that DE does not see the fundamental problem with some abilities they listed for subsuming.

You must be really fun at parties, i am so happy that i never going to play with you, this game already have meta, better frames, better weapons, the cursed meta mods, adding more options for the players to mix just add that, more options, for people like you we lost weapons like the cyanex, now a totally garbabe and have the only viral meta because people cry that corrosive was op, cmon just try to enjoy the game for a time, this is a coop game, we are not fighting player vs player, i never used saryn, i know is a nuke frame that i could do every mission with her and forget about anything, we have rhino that just use his iron scale and forget about armor, life or anything, we have valkyr with hysteria, literally she heal herself and became invulnerable, this is not a balanced game, this is a game full of meta everywhere you see, the only thing you do with this kind of complains is reduce the options for every player, weapons like cyanex suck, launchers now suck more only for 1 weapon, zaws are nerfed with every riven dispo, things like arca plasmor or most of the shotguns are worse.

Start to see the pattern? every time we complain we only do things worse, they only nerf our gear, our weapons and frames, never a single good buff.

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I was so exited for this system and now this is just depressing, playing a watered down version of an existing ability just feels bad.

just swap it to a different ability, this doesn't actually fix anything My Lave with 280% range currently has a 33 m range, say that goes down to 25, I'm still using it just as much on exactly the same frames I just feel worse while I'm doing it. OK so you nerf it to 15 m now I'm using Khora and I'm never using Larve so why not just swap Larve to something else so I have a use for Nidus.

and another thing having 6 equally viable top tier abilities is an amazing outcome, you cant reasonable expect every single ability to be equally good, there will always be a meta.

I started playing Warframe when Trinity Prime released but I heard about coptering and I thought it was amazing how a developer could listen to what their community was saying and make them feel like their opinions mattered when they made a change.

The Xoris nerf was the exact opposite of this, I felt ignored not because of the nerf but because we received no response to a lot of valid criticism. If you're going to go ahead of this at least explain why

TL:DR

1) why can't the ability be swapped for a different one.

2) why a meta of 6 great abilities is not good enough and how many would be enough.

3) why the original plan of buffing the subpar abilities is no longer viable to give people more choices.

4) and finally why in gods name did anyone think Roar would not be used more than everything else combined.

 

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I was very excited for this new addition to the game, I thought it was going to change metals, give more build diversity, and gameplay diversity but now with the nerfs and the mastery rank lock being lowered for newer players which they said was going to be for experienced players, which 8 is not in any way shape or form experienced as I had some friends still do 30 dmg to enemies in the 90s with what they call a good build which was made of upS mods and other mods which didn't benefit the gun, or melee, In conclusion, this mastery lock should be taken back up to 15, and to be honest I think you guys (devs) are just nerfing these because then the other abilities would not be picked and would be ignored, so your solution to this is nerfing the other good abilities to be as bad as the other ones to have balance, ok here is an Idea make the other abilities better and then you would not have to nerf, you would just fix things in the abilities if they are game breaking, which these abilities could be game breaking but before you nerf them let the players use them first and then decide if to nerf them or not because players always find way to break stuff, like aura mods, warframe abilities, even wens to the point where numbers go negative because of so much dmg.

The point of all this I wrote is that I am disappointed, all the hype that I got from tennocon is almost entirely gone, the exception to the loss of hype is the new warframes coming (they look really cool), I hope they don't get nerfed like this before we players even are able to touch it.

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8 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

To offer further clarification on why we changed the Mastery Rank Prerequisite to MR 8:

There's many factors that come into play in order to engage with the Helminth system, such as:

  • Having an ongoing supply of Resources that you don't need elsewhere to feed your Helminth
  • Working your way up the Helminth rankings to unlock more features
  • Having Warframes your ready/willing to Subsume

Looking at the above, we can see that higher rank players will be more equipped to offer these things to Helminth out the gate, where a MR 8 player will start with more accessible/cheaper Helminth Abilities first before diving deeper. Thus allowing MR 8 players to participate in Helminth and grow as they go.

Just make Subsuming Warframes a MR 15 requirement. The Helminth system can still be accessible to MR 8 players, but they cant sacrifice Warframes until MR 15. That way they get used to the system over time, and this also gives players a goal to reach for.

Easy fix. Do it.

Edited by DariusMcSwag
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These "pre-nerfs" are the wrong direction for the system, especially with Dispensary. Sure, a lot of people were surprised about Roar, and knew it would be a top choice. But Dispensary is considered for a lot of frames just because there's nothing else worth choosing. A majority of the abilities we can choose from are garbage, and in some cases the original frame doesn't even want it (cough Ice Wave cough). There were only a few choices that looked appealing. With the direction DE is going it could reach a point that makes players wonder "why bother with the system at all, nothing looks worth the grind". I don't want this system to be the next Focus system, where players get the one good thing from it and call it done. But the only way to make this better is to BUFF THE BAD ABILITIES.

 

A majority of the abilities should be appealing, not only a handful that are getting nerfed already. Nerfing these abilities doesn't make the bad abilities more appealing, it makes the whole system look less appealing.

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Warcry just gives attack speed... and poor armor increase (nerfing its % doesn´t make melees worse DE). Rhino´s roar isn´t broken... and just because a youtuber called it like that you assume it is. The people that said it was so op are so wrong and surely they don´t even own good rivens or tested the amazing variety of weapons. I agree with Eclipse nerf... but Rhinos? I´m really pissed. I can still 1 or 2 shot steel path enemies without rhino, to be honest rhinos roar was the only way to kinda get firing weapons at the same lvl of melees... melees being the most broken and unbalanced weapon category IN THE GAME. It´s awful DE... it´s really awful. And about roar with another warframe´s powers... to name a few... mesa regulators with 210% power strenght do not kill as fast as your melee weapon in steel path. If roar would have done something it would be just bringing mesa regulators to the almost same lvl they were in normal starchart. khora´s whipclaw scales with power strenght and we all know a khora isn´t built with power strenght... so roar kinda pointless. Saryn is so situational, requires certain conditions to work (f.e. a lot of enemies like in sanctuary onslaught). Baruuks doesn´t need more damage, it can even kill eidolons with his bare fist. The problem with baruuk´s kit is energy economy ... not lacking of dmg. 

Wukong´s defy armor cap... DE It wasn´t even a dmg reduction hability. It was just pure armor for god sake. I have an umbral valkyr... 2947 armor (maxed umbral set bonus - arcane guardian) it doesn´t make her inmortal? it´s not even comparable to a 90% dmg reduction with at least 100 of armor. 

And my god... i don´t need dispensary as a subsumed hability (attempting to fit it to my build). I have a specter of protea... if it is about to get less duration is kinda pointless using it as a subsumed hability. It gives energy ORBS and you still need efficiency and arcane ENERGIZE for a constat spamming of habilities with this dispensary. There is another really awesome way of getting energy from the subsumed habilities list... and you nerf the least effective. I don´t mind it tho.

Why Wukong´s roar? Why wukong´s defy...? you´r not ok DE. You can Nerf Eclipse to the groud (while inconsistant, still really op)... but roar and defy?. It really throws me off.

IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE FOR EXPERIENCED PLAYERS DE, NOT FOR CASUALS. 

I´ve been playing this for 7 years and this is the first time I feel this level of disappointment, it killed my hype. There are so many ways of destroying high lvl enemies without warframe powers DE. Melee weapons being at the lead... it really pisses me off.

 

Edited by xXMadneXDXx
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So what else is on the chopping block in our anti power fantasy PvE game? And the MR req for this obviously powerful system has to be that low? People can reach 8 in 2-3 weeks! Seriously killing the vibe for this update and it's not even out yet. Way to show your disdain towards players with more than 100 hrs.

 

 

AGAIN.

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On 2020-08-12 at 12:57 PM, --Q--FSK41 said:

This System is broken and will break the game completely,it shouldn't come into the game so many broken  combinations,for example mesa and eclipse/roar = who the hell thought of this. its completely unbalanced PLEASE DE do NOT put this into the game,since you made enemies paper the game is already quite easy but with this its literally broken

Please remove the damage BUFFING and abilities that do scaling/area damage it will break the game too much

by comments like this, all good abilities get nerfed, ty, now this system is completly ussles

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Every single time they've made changes shortly after release we get every other person that day one'd the content crawl out of the woodwork demanding compensations and refunds. And every time they make them long after we somehow get the exact same complaints and demands with no justified reasons.

The system was announced multiple times as being subject to change and it got changed. It shouldn't be surprising that people manage to still get upset considering how this community is yet it still manages to be.

And yes as far as I'm concerned the changes are fully justified and welcomed. The only thing I question is why the MR restriction was lowered as while I understand their reasoning I still don't believe it wise to allow "early" players to have access to such a system. Yet we'll still get players with 1k+ hours into the game complaining that they donated a frame without knowing that it would be lost or that they somehow used the one with all their Forma so I guess it doesn't matter what the restriction is.

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Just now, trst said:

Every single time they've made changes shortly after release we get every other person that day one'd the content crawl out of the woodwork demanding compensations and refunds. And every time they make them long after we somehow get the exact same complaints and demands with no justified reasons.

The system was announced multiple times as being subject to change and it got changed. It shouldn't be surprising that people manage to still get upset considering how this community is yet it still manages to be.

And yes as far as I'm concerned the changes are fully justified and welcomed. The only thing I question is why the MR restriction was lowered as while I understand their reasoning I still don't believe it wise to allow "early" players to have access to such a system. Yet we'll still get players with 1k+ hours into the game complaining that they donated a frame without knowing that it would be lost or that they somehow used the one with all their Forma so I guess it doesn't matter what the restriction is.

They lowered the MR requirement because some idiot will waste tons of resources and time to see everything lowered few weeks later.

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On 2020-08-12 at 8:27 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Who is this for?
We consider this a customization system for very experienced??? Warframe players (Mastery Rank 15 8 Prerequisite??? ). We do not intend to let newer players unlock this system. We intentionally placed the Segment deep into progression to ensure only experienced players could access the Segment and begin their journey with Helminth.

Wait, what? If this was meant to be an inside joke or something, I don't think it was wise to actually go forward with posting it.

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it just sucks that you are farming for a warframe, subsuming a warframe for its ability and get a nerfed version of it for the same energy that the original frame does it better. atleast there are still other op abilities like quivering arrow, elemental ward, radial blind and breach surge+seeking talons which he still have now. every one was shouting about how good roar/warcry were so they nerfed it because it would become a stale meta leading to no more farming of the helminth aka less time grinding that could go towards other frames and abilities 

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3 hours ago, kgabor said:

Hopefully not.

It sounds like one of the more unique and interesting abilities.

Not to mention the literal only reason you'd use it. It has nothing but downsides, otherwise, and doesn't even do the most damage against Sentient armor and their Robotic health

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Then what is the point of introducing helminth system if you are going to nerf it and also give it to MR 8 and above. Facepalm. The damage boosting abilities work with synergy with help from other frames but it's meh if played individually. As it is it's meh and if you nerf more on that, then what the point of introducing the system. We were excited to get some good abilities like roar, eclipse, warcry etc. Why don't you make test cluster out of players in the community and test the damned abilities and then decide to nerf or not.

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"The team is working on building the update to ship (versus building a demo as we have previously.) No huge delays, no difference in scope -- what you'll see is what you'll get as soon as it's ready to go."

you should be ashamed of yourselves.

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