The Helminth: Dev Workshop

[Sevenus.]

Hobestly it makes sence that some of the abilities will be nerfed, power creep but mostly because those are not the warframe's original abilities(the one transferred to it).

also the "nerfed" abilities will still be hella useful and strong regardless because it changes a useless/unwanted ability.

im abit disappointed that the system's MR required got reduced, but happy it is locked behind the Entraty family reputation.

[Mu_Gera]

5 hours ago, (XB1)MetalxPhoenix said:

Why bother to farm Nyx, Nekros, Loki, Frost just to add them to other Frames

it's seemingly impossible to equalize every ability and frame in the game, especially since the roster keeps growing. you'll always have clear choices that overwhelm others no matter how much you rebalance them and it's obviously gonna show up for the subsume abilities. 

and this system is barely comparable to rivens, with the amount of variables and marketability they have compared to just replacing 1 ability in another frame.

[JaddowTheKnight]

Players will still find ways to make the "nerfed" abilities overpowered.

I'm more concerned about the MR requirements, as this was billed as something for Experienced players.

Plus now we have ANOTHER system for novices to get overwhelmed by.

The final MR lock in normal progression was at MR16 (final Riven unlock) so having it at 15 would have been perfect.

[Sickle_Slayer]

2 hours ago, VocaSeiza said:

Warframe Players: " Oh my god, these abilitues are too OP, everybody will be using Roar or Eclipse"

Also Warframe Players: "SCREW U DE WHY U NERF"

The numbers aren't even out yet smh 

I think the main problem is that they didn't release Any of the numbers. We have no clue how badly those abilities will be nerfed, we just know they're not going to be the same. Which means a lot of farming that people did may be useless, and it's kind of in bad faith to say to your players "Hey! Go spend days to farm all those tedious warframes again..... even though the work you put into may not even be worth it by the time the update is released."

 

They also kinda said they weren't going to adjust abilities because of the system, then they did it anyway.... so yeah.

[Chewarette]

I hope there is a warning when subsuming nerfed abilities. Not everyone reads this topic (especially not Page 81 or so of this topic) and you don't want people complaining "Why tf does my Roar only do +5% damage with 300% strength ????".

All in all, I see no point in nerfing *some* abilities for whatever reason. Nerf them all (ie all subsumed abilities inherit xx% damage/range/duration of the original), or none. If Eclipse and Roar needed a nerf, then that'd have been better to just replace them with Mirage's 2 and Rhino Stomp maybe.

[Ezychiller]

em... nerf before launch? i guess hyping and hoping for the best is never a thing for this game... maybe warframe is approaching its end... sadly but i do wish the game to be good...

these days i see myself playing less of warframe not because of the overpowered players DE its because we dont have a lot to do anymore... whats fun rn is to kill stuff with as much power u can get but then u nerf everything like this and the game becomes dumber and dumber...

"grind harder lesser returns" 

honestly, overpowered space Ninja? that is warframe! we shud have fun.

[iSiawPrime]

9 minutes ago, (XB1)DeathwishDragon said:

Still excited about the system and I'm kinda glad that some of the nErFz(insert clucking spongebob) are hopefully going to keep some appeal of original Frames intact.

If you’re worried about the integrity of the originals frames, then don’t use the Helminth system, plain and simple lol.

[H.Katsura_999]

Well that's how DE works in the name of "Balance".

Players post polls of what are top picks for abiliteis and DE will see to it that "Every" ability gets to have "Equal" picks by leveling the playing field with Nerf Bat Primes.

The same could be said about Warframes and weapons.

"If it sticks out, hammer it down."

 

That being said which do you think is worse?

Nerf it after release and after everyone subsumed Roar to every DPS frame? or before?

[Skoomaseller]

instead of nerfing buff abilities how about buffing or even changing worthless abilities like soul punch lmao

[sonic55193]

Is it even worth it to farm a warframe, invest time and farm resources to sacrifice that warframe and get a weaker version of their abilities. I thought you guys said their helminth version ability is stronger than the original.

[AzureTerra]

For all the salt and bluster about the changes, least they are doing it before it releases rather than finding that hmm those were too good and now we will change them a week or so in (and its highly possible that things WILL change even after it goes live)

[(NSW)Lorkhan]

The Helminth was supposed to be the veteran systeme! Stop with your new player friendly crap for one and just let us Keep something for high level! The noobs sont even be able to have the ressources for the Helminth before MR15. And why nerf when YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW how it's going to be in-game!

Warframe is supposed to be overpowered space ninjas. I DO NOT SEE THE OWERPOWERED on the game because you at DE need to make EVERYTHING new player friendly ! 

[OniDax]

6 minutes ago, H.Katsura_999 said:

Well that's how DE works in the name of "Balance".

Players post polls of what are top picks for abiliteis and DE will see to it that "Every" ability gets to have "Equal" picks by leveling the playing field with Nerf Bat Primes.

The same could be said about Warframes and weapons.

"If it sticks out, hammer it down."

 

That being said which do you think is worse?

Nerf it after release and after everyone subsumed Roar to every DPS frame? or before?

Except they clearly don't do that with Warframes, as there are absolutely certain frames that are OP and others that are mediocre or even underpowered.

[(PSN)Shadow_Mortex]

hace 19 minutos, (XB1)DeathwishDragon dijo:

So there is no in between? If you critique [DE] you're an idiot. If you try to sympathize any for [DE], you're a "white knight"

Honestly, do something else with you're time.besides downplaying someone for sharing an opinion.

 

Also, just so I'm not a hypocrite, I'll add something constructive to the topic. Roar even with lowered stats is still going to be one of the best options because it's a fundamentally sound ability. The damage boost will affect a lot of damage dealing abilities, by a multiplier. Meaning that in many cases, it will likely outperform the helminth ability empower. Food for thought for the math nerds.

Still excited about the system and I'm kinda glad that some of the nErFz(insert clucking spongebob) are hopefully going to keep some appeal of original Frames intact.

More like something destructive to the topic with people like you that complain for everything that is better or more powerful than your current gear is why we get HUGE nerfs to a lot of things and people like YOU only make META STRONGER, because the list of thing that are useful start to became shorter, like melees that did not have crit chance but used to be good because condition overload was a good mod or weapons like the cyanex that were and AoE weapon without auto dmg and full gas on his base fire mode that is now useless because was proc is one of the worse mixed status procs, now have a useless dmg type with that stupid mechanic that have every AoE weapon since that nerf update that nerfed EVERY LAUNCHER AND AoE weapon, not Just kuva bramma as it should in first place.  So no, We dont appreciate your destructive opinion because we have a lot of them in the past and Just make things worse, We cant have fun things because there is always some like you yelling that are too OP.

[Kingsmount]

What the hell DE.

A lot of abilities needed BUFFS.

Yet instead, you go around NERFING abilities?

What the hell?

Why the hell would you nerf these things when they're just fine on other frames?  When you can't stack the damage buff?  WHEN YOU'RE REPLACING ONE OF YOUR ABILITIES for this ability that's just fine on someone else?  My disappointment is immeasurable. 

You completely wiped any excitement I felt towards this update.  And I was excited, for once. It got me to play the game again in anticipation.

 

This is a frigging PVE game.  LET US HAVE FUN SOMETIMES,  It's always nerf this and nerf that.  ffs.  Rarely any focus on making things fun, instead you hyperfocus on some nebulous concept of balance through limitation instead of entertainment. 

 

Yet now I'll just go play Remnant from the Ashes.

[SnakeBadger]

some basic ephemerals and rewards for sacrificing and feeding the helminth, shock > gives some cosmetic electric body on highlight in the menus and the helmith can also have some sort of resonance or waves of energy with that being based on the warframe, which affects bounties and the feed/operator trinkets to be crafted is also a good idea if it spit out things for the orbiter decoration or operator outfits need trinkets, what if the operator human sat on the chair in the future we dont know either, but we can come up with something, i only seen a few minutes of the stream, overall i really like it. But there should be some of these creature, in cetus maybe we can feed some of the dogs and bird/creatures in the market so that the players can get some affinity in earth and rewards, this way the game can be influenced like a RPG the citizens cough up some special items and offer special wares if you give them items and complete sub-bounties, konzu would have a few extra items, while the spice guy has some belt for ur tenno at some expense, magic, or part for building a kitgun or blaster, weapons, etc. I do picture the market peddlers and creatures in the water coming up with something and upper forest which seems desolate to have a fruits and critters which sing or light up when u touch the bushes, boat land, expanding the sea water lakes and river functionality in the game would be exciting featuring different grineer and human technologies which can also include the robots and catapults which scan over the lands and smaller drones which survey some areas to include circuits and things which we dont see on earth, the woods also remind me of more savage creatures and having more doors and robots will help balance some of those tilesets if the grineer were to start building and upgrading those areas, right now it seems like a waterfront generator villagers services, we could use the system for anything

[CarniKang]

Can we just rework how MR works in relation to the game? 

DE isn't using it, really. 

[(PSN)Impulse2988]

There goes the hype for this update 

[Shadow-Orion]

On 2020-08-13 at 12:55 AM, jesusdh said:

Mastery should be increased to 20+.

EDIT: No ultimare or signature abilities. Me, Valkyr main, staring at that Warcry. How dare you give my kitty cry to those unworthy fools?!

Ok, i understand your point with the Mastery rank increase, but I don't think increasing to 20+ would be too much. I suggest increasing it to 16 or 18 since most players would already be at that level where they understand most of Warframe's mechanics

[selig_fay]

7 hours ago, Loza03 said:

The playerbase have snapped this game like a twig. Dispensary, once properly modded, offers healing, armour (through health conversion) ammunition and energy, effectively granting players the ability to completely negate resource costs at will (on top of Protea's other ability to negate resource cost at will! Letting her negate the cost of negating costs!). Yet it's considered underpowered by some.

Because there are many alternatives to restore your energy. The Razorwing Titania will benefit the most from the dispenser, because Titania only has 2 ways - augment and arcane energaze. 

On the other hand, there is a mutator, this is an exilus slot. And we have auras for more ammo pickups. Farm abilities also help with this. And I don't think you need to explain what arcane pistoleer is. The only reason to use the dispenser here is fun weapons, fun exilus mods, and fun with archguns.

And I don't think you need to explain what equilibrium + sentinel, arcane energyze, rage, zenuric and zaw arcane are.

A dispenser is fun. Dispenser is good for support players. But he has alternatives and I think that the players will not even choose him for this reason.

But this is strange, why would you allow 1 frames with strong abilities to have this, while for other frames it will be strong. You know protea is strong and a dispenser is her weakest way to restore energy, because a time beacon exists.

[Prexades]

The nerf is justified, if it creates a meta of 2 abilities which are useful for almost any frame. I don't see a reason to complain about a nerf. The Helminth system wasn't even released yet and we all knew that some changes were still being made.

[IGN_Maverick]

On 2020-08-12 at 7:27 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Why do these Infused Warframe Abilities have these rules?
It was apparent in player feedback and play testing that these Infused Warframe Abilities had the potential to be the overwhelming choice; which is not ideal. Instead of changing the Ability outright due to those concerns, we decided to give them slight rules when Infused.

"Player feedback" : update has still to drop.

Sure now that you killed the only good thing about this update I will happily put random abilities on random warframes just to satisfy your absurd design idea of "balanced choice". Why picking something useful or fun if I can put a "rarely picked" ability and put it on a completely random frame just because that's how you want us to play?
 

 

[Bural_Puncher]

-regarding the change in mastery rank prerequisite-

changed to be unlocked at mastery rank 8 instead of 15. Is this gonna turn out just like how Arbitration turned out to be? You know, where you SAY it's an end-game content, but then eventually soften it up to a point that anybody can do it at any given point in time?

Should I bet on someone that in about 3 months or so this Helminth Chrysalis will be available to all from the very beginning so that every new players can touch on it right away, burn through the content in a flash, and then just leave with less than 100 hours of playtime?

I thought it was a pretty good idea to have a 15 MR prerequisite. It's where the majority of the community are already at, and it's high enough to keep the new players intrigued and have a goal set in mind to KEEP PLAYING and maybe, hopefully, become attached to this game as I have through the journey.

 

-regarding the "nerf" of certain abilities-

I'm not going to be against it until I actually see the numbers, but still worried either way. Toning down damage buffs is reasonable, but armor caps and DR caps is a different story. Sure, We have to worry about tanks like Inaros/Nidus/Chroma/Nezha and the likes getting too strong and even more unkillable than they are already, but I WANT TO SPEAK ABOUT FRAMES WITHOUT INNATE SURVIVABILITY IN THEIR KIT.

Thanks to the introduction of Shield Gating, squishy frames like Banshee have a second chance at survival and that's good. But here is the problem: This is a game where even 10% less DR can mean getting one-shot after your initial shield gate.

So for frames without a good survival kit, Helminth would have been a pretty tempting offer to try out newer and aggressive playstyle that could never have been dreamed of until now, but with reduced cap on DR and armor, they may not be even worth considering because you're not going to survive an extra hit.

[Cubewano]

3 hours ago, ChaoticEdge said:

lots heavy nerfing going on around here.  Do you think DE is making a wise chose or terrible chose?  The fact is right now I am worried about it might turn out be another RJ issues on day 1 it came out but without the bugs but litter-y just you know hype died for all for nothing.  The expectation of such high hype, dies for all I can think DE is killing the hype train here.  Time discuss will it be ok with all the players and the communties with this "heavy nerf"?

They gave us no actual numbers on these changes so we don't know if these nerfs are heavy at all, that said I welcome them balancing conservatively off the bat so people don't wind up getting over invested in things that may face balance changes afterwards, we've seen a lot of disappoint from that route of balancing and DE doing this is only a good choice. If things come out under tuned we can address it after the fact with far more ease than would come from them coming out over tuned and having to observe them being tampered down. 

[(PSN)ZephXiii]

Maybe add limitations to subsumed abilities when used with other wf abilities eg Mesa peace maker + roar. Also defy cap doesn't make sense since it originally had a cap and limited duration. 

But tweeking all possiblities before launch is better than nerfing afterwards. 

Mr lock should be higher,  something newer players to work towards and aspire to gain over the course of playing the game. 

In the heart of Deimos we shall meet again. ❤️