The Helminth: Dev Workshop

[(PSN)Dragant240]

And here I thought it was supposed to be for very experienced players, why change the rank requirment from 15 to 8? Shouldnt you WANT to entice players to want to go to MR 15 instead of derailing all of them not to? Ecouraging new and old players to try new stuff? And now you also nerfed some of the abilities as well? Why not buff some of the weakest abilities on the list? Or add more interesting ones?

If you are going to keep the nerfed abilities like they are, I can live with that, it is a good thing you guys are fixing certain abilities before launch but please increase the MR requirment back to 15. Stop with creating modes just to include new players. For newer players you got the new open world that's coming up at least let the helminth system be something for the more experienced players please.

[lukinu_u]

Is it even a nerf if it happens BEFORE launch ?
Anyways, choosing these abilities for the helminth system was an issue from the begining. Adding passive buffs there is just straight power creep, especially as those warframes have abilities that could be interesting to use and aren't OP (sleight of hand, rhino charge, cloud walker, etc...).

I'm glad they noticed something was wrong there, but it's sad to see how they decided to fix by lowering the stats, rather than replacing the ability.

[SelfishNeko]

On 2020-08-12 at 8:27 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

AUGUST 19TH UPDATE:

talk about killing the whole thing 😕 nerfing the system even prior to launch, this is very disappointing and discouraging. we simply can't have fun nice things when it comes to digital extremes.

 

[(XBOX)DeathwishDragon]

9 minutes ago, (NSW)Siaw said:

If you’re worried about the integrity of the originals frames, then don’t use the Helminth system, plain and simple lol.

I have experienced all of the warframes, I've played each of them a good bit and got a good feel for them and their abilities. Many people have brought up the problem of subsuming the only worthwhile/desirable ability a specific frame has. Like Valkyr for example. Ripline is a joke. Paralysis is meh cc and not really worthwhile considering her playstyle. Warcry is great, practically her bread and butter. Her 4 is usable, uniquely gives her temporary invul and life steal and can really compliment her kit as a berserker tank, BUT. Like many before me have said, you can just drop warcry on a better tank for better results. The reduced buff from the subsumed ability isn't going to destroy the usefulness, but hopefully keep some kind of edge for Valkyr to have. 

I plan to use the Helmith system fully. I have 18 frames in my foundry just waiting to get slurped up by wall-chan and I plan to have 44+ lotus flowers in my ship.  I have concern for the appeal of a frame like valkyr. Lets propose this situation and pretend that subsumed warcry isn't diminished. An Mr8 farms Alad V and builds valkyr, levels her and then is left with the question. If Warcry is the best thing about Valkyr and I can put that very ability on my wisp or any tank, why not sacrifice her? Carry this situation to a more experienced player. Why would I use my Valkyr Prime when I can just put the best thing about her on any frame for the same effective results AND have an entire other kit to use at the same time?

 

[UhhArgh]

 

6 minutes ago, CarniKang said:

Can we just rework how MR works in relation to the game? 

DE isn't using it, really. 

Would agree. even if it still MR 15 or even 20, people can reach 20 less in a month. Some player take their time learning the game thru-out mastery, but lot of people are just speed fodder.

Might wanna use syndicate lock, that way people have more time understanding game mechanics and (hopefully) eventually know what they are doing in the upcoming system. A good example is profit taker. People in this stage already know what they are doing or if not, they will be punished hard.

My solution is: Deimos only accessible for player that already max Little Duck and Onkko. That way it will keep "less experienced player" from accessing deimos too early and take their time learning the game. And also stays addressing deimos to veteran/endgame player

[(PSN)Onder6099]

MR15 -> MR8, great move, less Noobs (Noob =/= New player)

[SnakeBadger]

22 minutes ago, Shadow-Orion said:

Ok, i understand your point with the Mastery rank increase, but I don't think increasing to 20+ would be too much. I suggest increasing it to 16 or 18 since most players would already be at that level where they understand most of Warframe's mechanics

mastery rank needs more rewards and replayability, as far as i know also platinum purchases and cosmetics rework can make the players checking attain some goods for their orbiter and operators, palettes, ephemeral, glyphs, and ornaments for weapons, i think it would be good to incluse somespecial weapon mods when we overview, or riven with themes, planet based, shiny and robotics aren't spoken of, most players dont even know half the tests are failed and dont have very exciting rewards or reasons to redo, after you find Simaris has training area, but it aint more than winning even if it had a few treasures or rewards added, we will need to overlook the docks and different tangs / and ranks we could get permision from the syndicates to redo-some mastery ranks with additional enemies or different challenges and mods it gets better. I thought, special weapons and pet/ordis rewards would be great to add, destiny 2 gives special weapons per npc we have a bunch of military specialist systems factioned but the rewards are based on a bunch of points trustees, and missions which dont rewards anything special, so its fair that the new mastery rank has other trophies and gifts, preview of affinity boosters and excavators in mind, this can include things to feed the new helmith or special caskets from the tennopods and failed missions to sacrifice relics and orbs, parts, and rubish octavia songs, what else.

can we feed it relics and upgrade the dogo

[CarniKang]

Just now, UhhArgh said:

 

Would agree. even if it still MR 15 or even 20, people can reach 20 less in a month. Some player take their time learning the game thru-out mastery, but lot of people are just speed fodder.

Might wanna use syndicate lock, that way people have more time understanding game mechanics and (hopefully) eventually know what they are doing in the upcoming system. A good example is profit taker. People in this stage already know what they are doing or if not, they will be punished hard.

My solution is: Deimos only accessible for player that already max Little Duck and Onkko. That way it will keep "less experienced player" from accessing deimos too early and take their time learning the game. And also stays addressing deimos to veteran/endgame player

I'm more of a mind of switching how MR interacts with everything in the game. It's honestly a great way to restrict access to content without first showing you've done the 'requisite' grind of level appropriate planets/frames/weapons, or whatever else they choose should increase MR as they do now. 

But it needs to be better integrated. Like removing the one attempt every 24 hours. That would be a good starting point for overhauling the MR system and what it can do for DE. 

[Benaful]

hace 3 horas, Aldain dijo:

A wise one, because people would react even more violently if they did it post launch.

People also would have pitched a fit if things like Roar weren't an option in the first place and DE launched it with just the most basic utility type moves people would be demanding that things like Roar be added instead.

People would be angry no matter what they do, and honestly if this causes said angry people to quit the game then frankly I don't give a damn.

Some people will never be satisfied, even if you give them what they want they will demand more, the very essence of greed.

i want to use roar whit his augument as a CC  damage debuff so i dont mind much the nerf lol, even if it is halved roar is a great skill, wich improves my trinity prime build i just wish i had more mod slots, especially augument mod slots.

[OniDax]

4 minutes ago, UhhArgh said:

 

Would agree. even if it still MR 15 or even 20, people can reach 20 less in a month. Some player take their time learning the game thru-out mastery, but lot of people are just speed fodder.

Might wanna use syndicate lock, that way people have more time understanding game mechanics and (hopefully) eventually know what they are doing in the upcoming system. A good example is profit taker. People in this stage already know what they are doing or if not, they will be punished hard.

My solution is: Deimos only accessible for player that already max Little Duck and Onkko. That way it will keep "less experienced player" from accessing deimos too early and take their time learning the game. And also stays addressing deimos to veteran/endgame player

That's a bad idea. Deimos should be quest-locked behind The Sacrifice due to what it will reveal, not behind maxing out Quills and Vox Solaris.

[IGN_Maverick]

4 minutes ago, (XB1)DeathwishDragon said:

Why would I use my Valkyr Prime when I can just put the best thing about her on any frame for the same effective results AND have an entire other kit to use at the same time?

This is intellectually dishonest in my opinion. Valkyr has a completely different feel and stats than other frames, plus her exalted weapon. Then you make the mistake of " I play Valkyr this way because it's the most durable, so everyone it's playing it like this ". Maybe people are playing Valkyr differently. Who knows.
 

The problem here is, DE keeps fixing the bad part of their design decision by runining the good part in order to equate the two. It's dumb.

 

And creates animosity among the playerbase. Just look at this forum post.

 

 

[(PSN)iAsuna_v]

Scusate, ma il nerf è sicuro di questi warframe?

[dEjAvU5566]

Better than nerfing after release.

but still, there still will have other nerfing after release, because reasons.

[Cyrene]

Quote

We consider this a customization system for very experienced Warframe players (Mastery Rank 15 8 Prerequisite). We do not intend to let newer players unlock this system.

Hi DE, if you think "very experienced Warframe players" can you make it not MR based instead playtime based. MR 25 with 600 playtime is not what i called very experience. Instead if you want very experienced players, I think you could make it for MR 20 and above with atleast 1.5k hours playtime. Thank you.

[(XBOX)Cram Duahcim]

2 hours ago, Sweg178 said:

Wise choice .. this will now validate original warframes with their original ability . 

This is why its happening. It's so that Rhino isnt turned to a food frame once you have access to the Helminth system.

This makes perfect sense to do this. We still can apply the abilities to any warframe but if you want the best version of Ability X,Y or Z then you have to use the kit its sourced from. 

I'm behind the choice. It makes sense. And it dosent render the system any less impactful. Your still getting an upgrade. 

[IGN_Maverick]

1 minute ago, Isocyanide said:

Hi DE, if you think "very experienced Warframe players" can you make it not MR based instead playtime based. MR 25 with 600 playtime is not what i called very experience. Instead if you want very experienced players, I think you could make it for MR 20 and above with atleast 1.5k hours playtime. Thank you.

Can't believe people are getting fooled by this change. 
 

They did this on purpose trying to let the real BAD change slide, nerfing the only good thing in this update.

[selig_fay]

14 minutes ago, (PS4)Onder6099 said:

MR15 -> MR8, great move, less Noobs (Noob =/= New player)

Lol

https://slangtalk.fandom.com/wiki/Noob

[(PSN)Onder6099]

2 minutes ago, selig_fay said:

Lol

https://slangtalk.fandom.com/wiki/Noob

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.urbandictionary.com/define.php%3fterm=Noob&amp=true

[UhhArgh]

16 minutes ago, CarniKang said:

I'm more of a mind of switching how MR interacts with everything in the game. It's honestly a great way to restrict access to content without first showing you've done the 'requisite' grind of level appropriate planets/frames/weapons, or whatever else they choose should increase MR as they do now. 

But it needs to be better integrated. Like removing the one attempt every 24 hours. That would be a good starting point for overhauling the MR system and what it can do for DE. 

Yes that one i will agree too. MR system should be reworked how it interact with all features in the game. Reworking the 24 hour wall and more focusing it to teach the player the actual "what should u know in this stage of the game". An example is Interception Test for MR15, really? like we havent done earth interception. And all to MR 20.

Another example of mastery lock failure is public arbitration. Lot of less experienced/equipped player able to access it.

[DARK_WIZARD999]

Why are people complaining about balancing in a horde shooter? Its a masou, just do what is fun, forget all of these boring nerfs and "balances" that just detract from that. I swear, anyone that complains about stuff like that should just use vanilla Excalibur and MK1 braton unmodded. On non steel path Earth. There is your balanced challange. Things like being able to choose three of the same weapon instead of different types, choosing any ability to put into one frame, and a fantasy, but being able to mix up Warframe parts. Such things are lost on those trying to recreate Destiny or Halo pvp in Warframe. 

[KagaNerdy]

Increase the MR Requirement to like 18 (15 is okay i guess)

You people are false advertising and said it by yourself that in Tennocon that the Helminth system is not suitable for new players and yet...reducing the MR Requirement from 15 to 8.
Can you not overwhelm new players with these "contents"? Can you at least rework Mastery Rank System? because after 16 there's nothing else you can do after reaching that rank.

[Kmykzy]

The changes aren't even that surprising. The system could have been introduced without any MR requirements other than the rank3-5 standing with Entrati and not many would have bat an eye. A weaker form of the buffing abilities introduced from the start wouldn't have made many even question this choice as being bad (I think most would have just been happy with even having this option now). 

But changes like these a few days before release just crush most of the hype for the update. It's not about the ability stats or MR restrictions, I think this reaction comes from everyone because people feel cheated in a way. Like finding out that you won 1million$ but then being told that you will only get 100 000. Still a huge amount but it's less than what you initially reacted to.

I love how much DE engages with us, I also know that our monkey brains aren't always the most rational, so, even if this is less overhyped than previous updates, please don't give us so many details on unreleased content.

[DARK_WIZARD999]

1 minute ago, FortuneNerdy said:

Increase the MR Requirement to like 18 (15 is okay i guess)

You people are false advertising and said it by yourself that in Tennocon that the Helminth system is not suitable for new players and yet...reducing the MR Requirement from 15 to 8.
Can you not overwhelm new players with these "contents"? Can you at least rework Mastery Rank System because after 16? there's nothing else you can do after reaching that rank.

The entire system is broken, I started a new account and one thing I really hated is having to grind through trash weapons I don't want to play with. Or regrind vanilla frames that I don't want. the Mastery system basically makes you do things you don't want to do, which you burn out on, but it's the same as the part of the game you do like, so you just end up tiring yourself out for nothing. 

[selig_fay]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)Onder6099 said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.urbandictionary.com/define.php%3fterm=Noob&amp=true

Maybe then we will use a more trusted and popular source?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newbie

[armedpoop]

This has got to be one of the fastest hype train derailments ive ever seen. This update was enough to get me back in from a few month's hiatus to collect copies of the vanilla frames and then I get done grinding a second equinox (and witnessing how long it takes Tyl to come back in between health stops wew) and then I read this and feel like I just wasted my time. 

We didnt even get to put our fingers on this before you went and ruined it. Also from MR15 to MR8? I can't wait to see all the threads popping up about frames that they didnt know they were PERMANENTLY losing. 

Big big oof on this one, guys. I really really hope you reconsider ALL of these proposed changes.