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hace 19 minutos, (XB1)DeathwishDragon dijo:

So there is no in between? If you critique [DE] you're an idiot. If you try to sympathize any for [DE], you're a "white knight"

Honestly, do something else with you're time.besides downplaying someone for sharing an opinion.

 

Also, just so I'm not a hypocrite, I'll add something constructive to the topic. Roar even with lowered stats is still going to be one of the best options because it's a fundamentally sound ability. The damage boost will affect a lot of damage dealing abilities, by a multiplier. Meaning that in many cases, it will likely outperform the helminth ability empower. Food for thought for the math nerds.

Still excited about the system and I'm kinda glad that some of the nErFz(insert clucking spongebob) are hopefully going to keep some appeal of original Frames intact.

More like something destructive to the topic with people like you that complain for everything that is better or more powerful than your current gear is why we get HUGE nerfs to a lot of things and people like YOU only make META STRONGER, because the list of thing that are useful start to became shorter, like melees that did not have crit chance but used to be good because condition overload was a good mod or weapons like the cyanex that were and AoE weapon without auto dmg and full gas on his base fire mode that is now useless because was proc is one of the worse mixed status procs, now have a useless dmg type with that stupid mechanic that have every AoE weapon since that nerf update that nerfed EVERY LAUNCHER AND AoE weapon, not Just kuva bramma as it should in first place.  So no, We dont appreciate your destructive opinion because we have a lot of them in the past and Just make things worse, We cant have fun things because there is always some like you yelling that are too OP.

Edited by (PS4)Shadow_Mortex
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What the hell DE.

A lot of abilities needed BUFFS.

Yet instead, you go around NERFING abilities?

What the hell?

Why the hell would you nerf these things when they're just fine on other frames?  When you can't stack the damage buff?  WHEN YOU'RE REPLACING ONE OF YOUR ABILITIES for this ability that's just fine on someone else?  My disappointment is immeasurable. 

You completely wiped any excitement I felt towards this update.  And I was excited, for once. It got me to play the game again in anticipation.

 

This is a frigging PVE game.  LET US HAVE FUN SOMETIMES,  It's always nerf this and nerf that.  ffs.  Rarely any focus on making things fun, instead you hyperfocus on some nebulous concept of balance through limitation instead of entertainment. 

 

Yet now I'll just go play Remnant from the Ashes.

Edited by Kingsmount
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some basic ephemerals and rewards for sacrificing and feeding the helminth, shock > gives some cosmetic electric body on highlight in the menus and the helmith can also have some sort of resonance or waves of energy with that being based on the warframe, which affects bounties and the feed/operator trinkets to be crafted is also a good idea if it spit out things for the orbiter decoration or operator outfits need trinkets, what if the operator human sat on the chair in the future we dont know either, but we can come up with something, i only seen a few minutes of the stream, overall i really like it. But there should be some of these creature, in cetus maybe we can feed some of the dogs and bird/creatures in the market so that the players can get some affinity in earth and rewards, this way the game can be influenced like a RPG the citizens cough up some special items and offer special wares if you give them items and complete sub-bounties, konzu would have a few extra items, while the spice guy has some belt for ur tenno at some expense, magic, or part for building a kitgun or blaster, weapons, etc. I do picture the market peddlers and creatures in the water coming up with something and upper forest which seems desolate to have a fruits and critters which sing or light up when u touch the bushes, boat land, expanding the sea water lakes and river functionality in the game would be exciting featuring different grineer and human technologies which can also include the robots and catapults which scan over the lands and smaller drones which survey some areas to include circuits and things which we dont see on earth, the woods also remind me of more savage creatures and having more doors and robots will help balance some of those tilesets if the grineer were to start building and upgrading those areas, right now it seems like a waterfront generator villagers services, we could use the system for anything

Edited by SnakeBadger
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On 2020-08-13 at 12:55 AM, jesusdh said:

Mastery should be increased to 20+.

EDIT: No ultimare or signature abilities. Me, Valkyr main, staring at that Warcry. How dare you give my kitty cry to those unworthy fools?!

Ok, i understand your point with the Mastery rank increase, but I don't think increasing to 20+ would be too much. I suggest increasing it to 16 or 18 since most players would already be at that level where they understand most of Warframe's mechanics

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7 hours ago, Loza03 said:

The playerbase have snapped this game like a twig. Dispensary, once properly modded, offers healing, armour (through health conversion) ammunition and energy, effectively granting players the ability to completely negate resource costs at will (on top of Protea's other ability to negate resource cost at will! Letting her negate the cost of negating costs!). Yet it's considered underpowered by some.

Because there are many alternatives to restore your energy. The Razorwing Titania will benefit the most from the dispenser, because Titania only has 2 ways - augment and arcane energaze. 

On the other hand, there is a mutator, this is an exilus slot. And we have auras for more ammo pickups. Farm abilities also help with this. And I don't think you need to explain what arcane pistoleer is. The only reason to use the dispenser here is fun weapons, fun exilus mods, and fun with archguns.

And I don't think you need to explain what equilibrium + sentinel, arcane energyze, rage, zenuric and zaw arcane are.

A dispenser is fun. Dispenser is good for support players. But he has alternatives and I think that the players will not even choose him for this reason.

But this is strange, why would you allow 1 frames with strong abilities to have this, while for other frames it will be strong. You know protea is strong and a dispenser is her weakest way to restore energy, because a time beacon exists.

Edited by selig_fay
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The nerf is justified, if it creates a meta of 2 abilities which are useful for almost any frame. I don't see a reason to complain about a nerf. The Helminth system wasn't even released yet and we all knew that some changes were still being made.

Edited by Prexades
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On 2020-08-12 at 7:27 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Why do these Infused Warframe Abilities have these rules?
It was apparent in player feedback and play testing that these Infused Warframe Abilities had the potential to be the overwhelming choice; which is not ideal. Instead of changing the Ability outright due to those concerns, we decided to give them slight rules when Infused.

"Player feedback" : update has still to drop.

Sure now that you killed the only good thing about this update I will happily put random abilities on random warframes just to satisfy your absurd design idea of "balanced choice". Why picking something useful or fun if I can put a "rarely picked" ability and put it on a completely random frame just because that's how you want us to play?
 

 

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-regarding the change in mastery rank prerequisite-

changed to be unlocked at mastery rank 8 instead of 15. Is this gonna turn out just like how Arbitration turned out to be? You know, where you SAY it's an end-game content, but then eventually soften it up to a point that anybody can do it at any given point in time?

Should I bet on someone that in about 3 months or so this Helminth Chrysalis will be available to all from the very beginning so that every new players can touch on it right away, burn through the content in a flash, and then just leave with less than 100 hours of playtime?

I thought it was a pretty good idea to have a 15 MR prerequisite. It's where the majority of the community are already at, and it's high enough to keep the new players intrigued and have a goal set in mind to KEEP PLAYING and maybe, hopefully, become attached to this game as I have through the journey.

 

-regarding the "nerf" of certain abilities-

I'm not going to be against it until I actually see the numbers, but still worried either way. Toning down damage buffs is reasonable, but armor caps and DR caps is a different story. Sure, We have to worry about tanks like Inaros/Nidus/Chroma/Nezha and the likes getting too strong and even more unkillable than they are already, but I WANT TO SPEAK ABOUT FRAMES WITHOUT INNATE SURVIVABILITY IN THEIR KIT.

Thanks to the introduction of Shield Gating, squishy frames like Banshee have a second chance at survival and that's good. But here is the problem: This is a game where even 10% less DR can mean getting one-shot after your initial shield gate.

So for frames without a good survival kit, Helminth would have been a pretty tempting offer to try out newer and aggressive playstyle that could never have been dreamed of until now, but with reduced cap on DR and armor, they may not be even worth considering because you're not going to survive an extra hit.

Edited by IDK_ismyname
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3 hours ago, ChaoticEdge said:

lots heavy nerfing going on around here.  Do you think DE is making a wise chose or terrible chose?  The fact is right now I am worried about it might turn out be another RJ issues on day 1 it came out but without the bugs but litter-y just you know hype died for all for nothing.  The expectation of such high hype, dies for all I can think DE is killing the hype train here.  Time discuss will it be ok with all the players and the communties with this "heavy nerf"?

They gave us no actual numbers on these changes so we don't know if these nerfs are heavy at all, that said I welcome them balancing conservatively off the bat so people don't wind up getting over invested in things that may face balance changes afterwards, we've seen a lot of disappoint from that route of balancing and DE doing this is only a good choice. If things come out under tuned we can address it after the fact with far more ease than would come from them coming out over tuned and having to observe them being tampered down. 

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Maybe add limitations to subsumed abilities when used with other wf abilities eg Mesa peace maker + roar. Also defy cap doesn't make sense since it originally had a cap and limited duration. 

But tweeking all possiblities before launch is better than nerfing afterwards. 

Mr lock should be higher,  something newer players to work towards and aspire to gain over the course of playing the game. 

In the heart of Deimos we shall meet again. ❤️

 

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And here I thought it was supposed to be for very experienced players, why change the rank requirment from 15 to 8? Shouldnt you WANT to entice players to want to go to MR 15 instead of derailing all of them not to? Ecouraging new and old players to try new stuff? And now you also nerfed some of the abilities as well? Why not buff some of the weakest abilities on the list? Or add more interesting ones?

If you are going to keep the nerfed abilities like they are, I can live with that, it is a good thing you guys are fixing certain abilities before launch but please increase the MR requirment back to 15. Stop with creating modes just to include new players. For newer players you got the new open world that's coming up at least let the helminth system be something for the more experienced players please.

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Is it even a nerf if it happens BEFORE launch ?
Anyways, choosing these abilities for the helminth system was an issue from the begining. Adding passive buffs there is just straight power creep, especially as those warframes have abilities that could be interesting to use and aren't OP (sleight of hand, rhino charge, cloud walker, etc...).

I'm glad they noticed something was wrong there, but it's sad to see how they decided to fix by lowering the stats, rather than replacing the ability.

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On 2020-08-12 at 8:27 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

AUGUST 19TH UPDATE:

talk about killing the whole thing 😕 nerfing the system even prior to launch, this is very disappointing and discouraging. we simply can't have fun nice things when it comes to digital extremes.

 

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9 minutes ago, (NSW)Siaw said:

If you’re worried about the integrity of the originals frames, then don’t use the Helminth system, plain and simple lol.

I have experienced all of the warframes, I've played each of them a good bit and got a good feel for them and their abilities. Many people have brought up the problem of subsuming the only worthwhile/desirable ability a specific frame has. Like Valkyr for example. Ripline is a joke. Paralysis is meh cc and not really worthwhile considering her playstyle. Warcry is great, practically her bread and butter. Her 4 is usable, uniquely gives her temporary invul and life steal and can really compliment her kit as a berserker tank, BUT. Like many before me have said, you can just drop warcry on a better tank for better results. The reduced buff from the subsumed ability isn't going to destroy the usefulness, but hopefully keep some kind of edge for Valkyr to have. 

I plan to use the Helmith system fully. I have 18 frames in my foundry just waiting to get slurped up by wall-chan and I plan to have 44+ lotus flowers in my ship.  I have concern for the appeal of a frame like valkyr. Lets propose this situation and pretend that subsumed warcry isn't diminished. An Mr8 farms Alad V and builds valkyr, levels her and then is left with the question. If Warcry is the best thing about Valkyr and I can put that very ability on my wisp or any tank, why not sacrifice her? Carry this situation to a more experienced player. Why would I use my Valkyr Prime when I can just put the best thing about her on any frame for the same effective results AND have an entire other kit to use at the same time?

 

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6 minutes ago, CarniKang said:

Can we just rework how MR works in relation to the game? 

DE isn't using it, really. 

Would agree. even if it still MR 15 or even 20, people can reach 20 less in a month. Some player take their time learning the game thru-out mastery, but lot of people are just speed fodder.

Might wanna use syndicate lock, that way people have more time understanding game mechanics and (hopefully) eventually know what they are doing in the upcoming system. A good example is profit taker. People in this stage already know what they are doing or if not, they will be punished hard.

My solution is: Deimos only accessible for player that already max Little Duck and Onkko. That way it will keep "less experienced player" from accessing deimos too early and take their time learning the game. And also stays addressing deimos to veteran/endgame player

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22 minutes ago, Shadow-Orion said:

Ok, i understand your point with the Mastery rank increase, but I don't think increasing to 20+ would be too much. I suggest increasing it to 16 or 18 since most players would already be at that level where they understand most of Warframe's mechanics

mastery rank needs more rewards and replayability, as far as i know also platinum purchases and cosmetics rework can make the players checking attain some goods for their orbiter and operators, palettes, ephemeral, glyphs, and ornaments for weapons, i think it would be good to incluse somespecial weapon mods when we overview, or riven with themes, planet based, shiny and robotics aren't spoken of, most players dont even know half the tests are failed and dont have very exciting rewards or reasons to redo, after you find Simaris has training area, but it aint more than winning even if it had a few treasures or rewards added, we will need to overlook the docks and different tangs / and ranks we could get permision from the syndicates to redo-some mastery ranks with additional enemies or different challenges and mods it gets better. I thought, special weapons and pet/ordis rewards would be great to add, destiny 2 gives special weapons per npc we have a bunch of military specialist systems factioned but the rewards are based on a bunch of points trustees, and missions which dont rewards anything special, so its fair that the new mastery rank has other trophies and gifts, preview of affinity boosters and excavators in mind, this can include things to feed the new helmith or special caskets from the tennopods and failed missions to sacrifice relics and orbs, parts, and rubish octavia songs, what else.

can we feed it relics and upgrade the dogo

Edited by SnakeBadger
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Just now, UhhArgh said:

 

Would agree. even if it still MR 15 or even 20, people can reach 20 less in a month. Some player take their time learning the game thru-out mastery, but lot of people are just speed fodder.

Might wanna use syndicate lock, that way people have more time understanding game mechanics and (hopefully) eventually know what they are doing in the upcoming system. A good example is profit taker. People in this stage already know what they are doing or if not, they will be punished hard.

My solution is: Deimos only accessible for player that already max Little Duck and Onkko. That way it will keep "less experienced player" from accessing deimos too early and take their time learning the game. And also stays addressing deimos to veteran/endgame player

I'm more of a mind of switching how MR interacts with everything in the game. It's honestly a great way to restrict access to content without first showing you've done the 'requisite' grind of level appropriate planets/frames/weapons, or whatever else they choose should increase MR as they do now. 

But it needs to be better integrated. Like removing the one attempt every 24 hours. That would be a good starting point for overhauling the MR system and what it can do for DE. 

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hace 3 horas, Aldain dijo:

A wise one, because people would react even more violently if they did it post launch.

People also would have pitched a fit if things like Roar weren't an option in the first place and DE launched it with just the most basic utility type moves people would be demanding that things like Roar be added instead.

People would be angry no matter what they do, and honestly if this causes said angry people to quit the game then frankly I don't give a damn.

Some people will never be satisfied, even if you give them what they want they will demand more, the very essence of greed.

i want to use roar whit his augument as a CC  damage debuff so i dont mind much the nerf lol, even if it is halved roar is a great skill, wich improves my trinity prime build i just wish i had more mod slots, especially augument mod slots.

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4 minutes ago, UhhArgh said:

 

Would agree. even if it still MR 15 or even 20, people can reach 20 less in a month. Some player take their time learning the game thru-out mastery, but lot of people are just speed fodder.

Might wanna use syndicate lock, that way people have more time understanding game mechanics and (hopefully) eventually know what they are doing in the upcoming system. A good example is profit taker. People in this stage already know what they are doing or if not, they will be punished hard.

My solution is: Deimos only accessible for player that already max Little Duck and Onkko. That way it will keep "less experienced player" from accessing deimos too early and take their time learning the game. And also stays addressing deimos to veteran/endgame player

That's a bad idea. Deimos should be quest-locked behind The Sacrifice due to what it will reveal, not behind maxing out Quills and Vox Solaris.

Edited by OniDax
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4 minutes ago, (XB1)DeathwishDragon said:

Why would I use my Valkyr Prime when I can just put the best thing about her on any frame for the same effective results AND have an entire other kit to use at the same time?

This is intellectually dishonest in my opinion. Valkyr has a completely different feel and stats than other frames, plus her exalted weapon. Then you make the mistake of " I play Valkyr this way because it's the most durable, so everyone it's playing it like this ". Maybe people are playing Valkyr differently. Who knows.
 

The problem here is, DE keeps fixing the bad part of their design decision by runining the good part in order to equate the two. It's dumb.

 

And creates animosity among the playerbase. Just look at this forum post.

 

 

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