The Helminth: Dev Workshop

[(XBOX)DeathwishDragon]

30 minutes ago, (PS4)Shadow_Mortex said:

More like something destructive to the topic with people like you that complain for everything that is better or more powerful than your current gear is why we get HUGE nerfs to a lot of things and people like YOU only make META STRONGER, because the list of thing that are useful start to became shorter, like melees that did not have crit chance but used to be good because condition overload was a good mod or weapons like the cyanex that were and AoE weapon without auto dmg and full gas on his base fire mode that is now useless because was proc is one of the worse mixed status procs, now have a useless dmg type with that stupid mechanic that have every AoE weapon since that nerf update that nerfed EVERY LAUNCHER AND AoE weapon, not Just kuva bramma as it should in first place.  So no, We dont appreciate your destructive opinion because we have a lot of them in the past and Just make things worse, We cant have fun things because there is always some like you yelling that are too OP.

Uhh did you read my response carefully?

All I meant was that Roar is fundamentally good and that I'm glad frames like Valkyr are going to keep some edge over the subsumed ability.

I didn't pick roar for this list, and I'm honestly not too happy it's getting nerfed either. I wasn't calling it OP, never included those meaningless letters in my response. I don't go "NUU THATS TOO STRONG" I want strong things because I want fun things. Personally, It saddens me when the meta shrinks, I like variety in this game.

And to relate to your points, I loved the cyanex and I absolutely hate what they did to it. I don't complain about strong things in PvE games. Never have, never will. I didn't want the Bramma to get nerfed in the ways it did. I didn't want every AoE weapon to take a hit as fallout of the Bramma. I didn't want gas to become useless.

However, I am going to nitpick and defend my "constructive reply". I know quite well exactly what I said and it's meaning. I said that Roar is still going to be good because it operates on a multiplier that doesn't have diminishing returns. I was trying to make light of this nerf and get people pondering on the potential for buildcraft. A constructive reply adds to the subject and creates positive opportunities for more replies on the matter. I wanted to get people talking about what we can still do with an interesting power.

[KelkSwiftlan]

Revert back the mastery rank required from 8 back to 15.

[JimmuTanno88]

yikes....well, I hoped the meta wouldnt harm this update buuuut that was too high of hopes clearly. As long as they dont severely nerf anything else it should still be fine.

[DARK_WIZARD999]

1 minute ago, KelkSwiftlan said:

Revert back the mastery rank required from 8 back to 15.

"No". 

[spudster888.]

10 minutes ago, DARK_WIZARD999 said:

Why are people complaining about balancing in a horde shooter? Its a masou, just do what is fun, forget all of these boring nerfs and "balances" that just detract from that. I swear, anyone that complains about stuff like that should just use vanilla Excalibur and MK1 braton unmodded. On non steel path Earth. There is your balanced challange. Things like being able to choose three of the same weapon instead of different types, choosing any ability to put into one frame, and a fantasy, but being able to mix up Warframe parts. Such things are lost on those trying to recreate Destiny or Halo pvp in Warframe. 

Because to alot of us, the min maxing capacity in the game is enjoyable. If you don't care, thats your prerogative. This kind of system could introduce some exceptional synergistic design to the game, and DE is trying to sabotage this. 

[Sahansral]

vor 9 Stunden schrieb Orokin:

This just shows again a fundamental misunderstanding of the game in general. I have three things to say:

1. How in the world is this supposed to make things like Loki's Decoy more appealing?

2. If the goal is to make the abilities all equally terrible instead of all equally good, what is the point of this high resource/time investment system and why would anyone use it?

3. There will always be a best option, but just because it is the best option does not mean that it is worth using

 

 

It isn't the goal to make decoy more attractive, but to have roughly 20 viable options instead of 6.
Stop acting like the rest of abilities besides the six are terrible. FFS, just be happy that you can replace things like Spectral Scream.

[selig_fay]

1 minute ago, DARK_WIZARD999 said:

"No"

That's right, it should be mr 30.

[BRC_Del]

10 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

To offer further clarification on why we changed the Mastery Rank Prerequisite to MR 8:

There's many factors that come into play in order to engage with the Helminth system, such as:

• Having an ongoing supply of Resources that you don't need elsewhere to feed your Helminth
• Working your way up the Helminth rankings to unlock more features
• Having Warframes your ready/willing to Subsume

Looking at the above, we can see that higher rank players will be more equipped to offer these things to Helminth out the gate, where a MR 8 player will start with more accessible/cheaper Helminth Abilities first before diving deeper. Thus allowing MR 8 players to participate in Helminth and grow as they go.

No. This is the exact opposite of what you guys mentioned in Tennocon. Hell, I was thinking a kick up to MR 16 to make that rank matter more beyond a handful of Rivens. 

 

If you advertise something as "for experienced players" then place it a week and a half into the game, you're not making it for experienced players. 

 

Please reconsider. 

[spudster888.]

4 hours ago, Sahansral said:

It isn't the goal to make decoy more attractive, but to have roughly 20 viable options instead of 6.
Stop acting like the rest of abilities besides the six are terrible. FFS, just be happy that you can replace things like Spectral Scream.

No, why should people be happy they can replace something bad with something mediocre? If thats what your system has achieved, its not a good system.

[IGN_Maverick]

3 minutes ago, spudster888. said:

Because to alot of us, the min maxing capacity in the game is enjoyable. If you don't care, thats your prerogative. This kind of system could introduce some exceptional synergistic design to the game, and DE is trying to sabotage this. 

I think you guys are saying the "same" thing. Or at least are of the same idea.

[Celtic_Guardian]

We don't know the numbers yet but I personally would do these changes if the ability subsumed then it will be 90% of the original so not need to touch the original frame abilities. Each ability could be lowered from 50-90% depending on the ability and what frame you wish to fuse it. 

[Abenoki]

I was thinking about coming back for this update, but it looks like this ones shaping up to be yet another disappointing mess like all of 2019.

2020, year 2 of disappointing updates and its sad to see. MAYBE this will shape up but this MR change alone tells me you have no idea what an experienced Warframe player is because its not MR8, but Kuva Lich being doable at MR5 already proved that i suppose.

After 7yrs with this game i figured (why would i though?) you would actually give something for veteran players to do but its just gonna be another grind fest with new players hallway heroing themselves to death. I would like for ONCE in Warframe us veteran players to get something worth our time and not get shafted.

[spudster888.]

4 hours ago, IGN_Maverick said:

I think you guys are saying the "same" thing. Or at least are of the same idea.

Not necessarily, i'm focused on the nerfs, because the nerfs are wrong

[Isokaze_BestKaze]

lmao all the complaining in this thread.

Btw they "nerfed" (if you can use the term for something still not released) boring buff ability but didn't touch Wisp's 3 and Vauban's 1 which are arguably as good or even better than Rhino's roar.

[IGN_Maverick]

4 hours ago, spudster888. said:

Not necessarily, i'm focused on the nerfs, because the nerfs are wrong

Yeah and that guys is saying " why bothering with nerfing, since its a PvE just introduce stuff that is fun". And yeah, I do agree these nerfs are dumber than Xoris nerf.
 

[TheNineBreaker]

You stated this wasn't going to be for beginners and then slashing it to MR8 in order to use the system? Why even bother getting past MR16? There's legit nothing that uses the MR system other than oh boy we can trade more times per day which I rarely ever do at MR24. 

Then before even letting the system which we won't be able to access from the start of THOD you are already NERFING things. Why? What'd the point if you're going to just nerf stuff that could be good? You are actively making me not interested in this game/update. 

What do I have to do? oh grind the Heart of Deimos' faction until I'm max rank and then what? try out the now underwhelming subsume system and then peace out for months until something vaguely interesting comes out that I might play for a week then peace out again?

 

I was super interested in having a mode that not a whole lot of the community would have after a few days and being MR15 might have made it a good way to keep low level MR's around to grind up the ladder to MR15 and try the system out themselves. but with it being MR8 now everyone and their grandma will be running around with Roar, war cry, Shock, or whatever they want to put on their warframe. 

 

Why can't you just let us have our fun with a new system for once without preemptively nerfing it? This is constantly the issue, you build up something that looks actually fun or interesting, the at launch or before launch you deflate any hype around it by balancing (nerfing) things. 

[oohshiny]

Here's some quick graphs I pulled together regarding what weapons are available at what MR:

50% of Prime weapons are available at MR11. The majority are at MRs 10, 12 and 14.

Not counting Archguns, Kitguns or Zaws, 50% of non-prime weapons are available at MR7. (Strictly speaking, Kuva weapons are available at MR5, but their listed MR is much higher.)

Apart from Rivens, mastery rank requirements are very heavily clustered at MR8 and under; new players are absolutely drowning in choice, and I constantly see people asking for guidance because they feel lost. Adding Helminth at MR8 will only make things worse for them.

[ConsumerJTC]

Revert the MR changes to the Helminth system.

 

Whilst the vocal minority who willingly keeps themselves in the lower MRs will be sacrificed, there is literally no reason to make the Helminth system accessible to people or new players who mostly aren't even able to max out their vitality mods yet, much less have a surplus of resources to dump with.

Besides that, they don't need to be cluttered with more content, just so they could get confused/intimidated from the sheer amounts of it needed to be done like the open worlds or game modes like Railjack.

Really we aught to have a guided path of pregression for this game, not a massive info dump as soon as you get to rank 5.

 

Edit IMO: The nerfs on the abilities are really unneeded in the first place, when there is a much simpler option to replace those problem children with others from the same toolkits that are more utility/situational/balanced. An odd outliner for the nerf here being defy.

 

[JimmuTanno88]

Honestly the nerfs themselves dont seem tooo bad, its just rather irritating they happened in the first place. If DE wanted to ballance this, shouldnt they have at least considered before showing the system that the community might, just MIGHT decide to try and make a meta? Like they do with every new system and update...

[OniDax]

5 minutes ago, Sahansral said:

It isn't the goal to make decoy more attractive, but to have roughly 20 viable options instead of 6.
Stop acting like the rest of abilities besides the six are terrible. FFS, just be happy that you can replace things like Spectral Scream.

Huh? Nerfing these abilities doesn't make the other 18 abilities viable (using your numbers). If they aren't viable now, they won't be viable after nerfing these 6. And since that's your perspective, what you're really saying is that only 6 are viable, so nerf those 6 so that none are viable.

You might want to rethink your analogy.

[spudster888.]

4 hours ago, IGN_Maverick said:

Yeah and that guys is saying " why bothering with nerfing, since its a PvE just introduce stuff that is fun". And yeah, I do agree these nerfs are dumber than Xoris nerf.
 

Ah. yeah on second inspection i'd be inclined to agree. I initially thought he was having a poke at people who have a problem with the nerfs. As for the Xoris nerf, these are on the same level, nerfs that just have no place what so ever. In the case of the xoris they nerfed something that was convenient, not the best.

[killerJoke66]

i wake up seeing helminth getting nerfed when its embrio form and not even born ... i guess we cant have nice things ? 

[Leown_Kitrinos]

I have been coming back and leaving for updates for YEAR'S. i was really excited about this one. I'm not excited anymore. i came back and grinded some spare frames which i never thought i would do again took a trip on memory lane. started doing Steel path which oh my god.. some thing harder. Wanted to actually FINISH Quills ranking's and put some thing into my Dojo and maybe even start getting a small community going.

Not anymore. This system was supposed to be for the players towards end game or later levels and the customization was supposed to be there. I get things needed nerfs everyone knew that right off the bat second we saw damage buffs like Rhino's Roar. we don't even have solid numbers yet so cannot complain to much right now. But problem is people are STILL going to pick those abilities! they are straight damage buffs. why should i have Vauban's 3rd ability when i don't use it at all for any content while i can still get some thing that buffs damage and makes me use energy? that goes for every frame that has abilities that are not used anymore and or needed and y'know... Still don't scale properly.

i can tell you right now. This Ability system would not have a single damn problem if ALL abilities were finally looked over and given scaling damage or effects (No not a rework of a frame just the damage scaling) for the entirety of Warframe not just this system. This way Nerfs just for Transferred abilities could have caps and time limitations different when on another frame then its host frame without people complaining. cause if we had say... "Oh look i can either take this out of my kit and build differently do some thing else i want! Or i can still keep my old kit and still do great without them!" things wouldn't be argued over this badly.

oh and the Mastery Rank needs to be put back up. this is not for new players and mastery rank 8 is no where near end game or later levels its not even mid level. NOW not just older players or experienced players have access to this but fairly new people as well. seriously it does not take that long to get to MR 15. it took me 10 days to get to MR 10. playing a few hours at a time. what are people doing?

At this Point and i'll be very Honest. Take away all the Warframe Abilities that were announced to be released with this update and go back to drawing board. and just release the Helminth Abilities and possibly make some more later.

i'm MR 21 i have been playing 6-7 years, i only have 1,000 hours into the game at most. i've done bits and pieces of the game. i've been Casual, i've been apart of grinding groups and end game groups. i know what Warframe has to offer and where it can go. and i'm saying it. cause while i was super excited for this to come out. it needs to go. a lot of people are already turned off from this update already from changes.

Until all Warframe Abilities can have scaling in the game. This should not come out. unpopular opinion of course but it needs to happen.

 

[Kenoman]

Yeah, who would've thought that those options would've been an overwhelmingly better choice over the others? Couldn't have thought of anything else like, oh I don't know, choosing a different ability that might've actually done something for the other warframe when subsumed?

[ConsumerJTC]

4 hours ago, spudster888. said:

No, why should people be happy they can replace something bad with something mediocre? If thats what your system has achieved, its not a good system.

One mans mediocre trash is another mans mediocre treasure.

In this case, ensnare/null star on Chroma who doesn't have CC or get enough damage reduction does wonders.