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4 hours ago, spudster888. said:

Not necessarily, i'm focused on the nerfs, because the nerfs are wrong

Yeah and that guys is saying " why bothering with nerfing, since its a PvE just introduce stuff that is fun". And yeah, I do agree these nerfs are dumber than Xoris nerf.
 

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You stated this wasn't going to be for beginners and then slashing it to MR8 in order to use the system? Why even bother getting past MR16? There's legit nothing that uses the MR system other than oh boy we can trade more times per day which I rarely ever do at MR24. 

Then before even letting the system which we won't be able to access from the start of THOD you are already NERFING things. Why? What'd the point if you're going to just nerf stuff that could be good? You are actively making me not interested in this game/update. 

What do I have to do? oh grind the Heart of Deimos' faction until I'm max rank and then what? try out the now underwhelming subsume system and then peace out for months until something vaguely interesting comes out that I might play for a week then peace out again?

 

I was super interested in having a mode that not a whole lot of the community would have after a few days and being MR15 might have made it a good way to keep low level MR's around to grind up the ladder to MR15 and try the system out themselves. but with it being MR8 now everyone and their grandma will be running around with Roar, war cry, Shock, or whatever they want to put on their warframe. 

 

Why can't you just let us have our fun with a new system for once without preemptively nerfing it? This is constantly the issue, you build up something that looks actually fun or interesting, the at launch or before launch you deflate any hype around it by balancing (nerfing) things. 

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Here's some quick graphs I pulled together regarding what weapons are available at what MR:

unknown.png

50% of Prime weapons are available at MR11. The majority are at MRs 10, 12 and 14.

unknown.png

Not counting Archguns, Kitguns or Zaws, 50% of non-prime weapons are available at MR7. (Strictly speaking, Kuva weapons are available at MR5, but their listed MR is much higher.)

Apart from Rivens, mastery rank requirements are very heavily clustered at MR8 and under; new players are absolutely drowning in choice, and I constantly see people asking for guidance because they feel lost. Adding Helminth at MR8 will only make things worse for them.

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Revert the MR changes to the Helminth system.

 

Whilst the vocal minority who willingly keeps themselves in the lower MRs will be sacrificed, there is literally no reason to make the Helminth system accessible to people or new players who mostly aren't even able to max out their vitality mods yet, much less have a surplus of resources to dump with.

Besides that, they don't need to be cluttered with more content, just so they could get confused/intimidated from the sheer amounts of it needed to be done like the open worlds or game modes like Railjack.

Really we aught to have a guided path of pregression for this game, not a massive info dump as soon as you get to rank 5.

 

Edit IMO: The nerfs on the abilities are really unneeded in the first place, when there is a much simpler option to replace those problem children with others from the same toolkits that are more utility/situational/balanced. An odd outliner for the nerf here being defy.

 

Edited by ConsumerJTC
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Honestly the nerfs themselves dont seem tooo bad, its just rather irritating they happened in the first place. If DE wanted to ballance this, shouldnt they have at least considered before showing the system that the community might, just MIGHT decide to try and make a meta? Like they do with every new system and update...

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5 minutes ago, Sahansral said:

It isn't the goal to make decoy more attractive, but to have roughly 20 viable options instead of 6.
Stop acting like the rest of abilities besides the six are terrible. FFS, just be happy that you can replace things like Spectral Scream.

Huh? Nerfing these abilities doesn't make the other 18 abilities viable (using your numbers). If they aren't viable now, they won't be viable after nerfing these 6. And since that's your perspective, what you're really saying is that only 6 are viable, so nerf those 6 so that none are viable.

You might want to rethink your analogy.

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4 hours ago, IGN_Maverick said:

Yeah and that guys is saying " why bothering with nerfing, since its a PvE just introduce stuff that is fun". And yeah, I do agree these nerfs are dumber than Xoris nerf.
 

Ah. yeah on second inspection i'd be inclined to agree. I initially thought he was having a poke at people who have a problem with the nerfs. As for the Xoris nerf, these are on the same level, nerfs that just have no place what so ever. In the case of the xoris they nerfed something that was convenient, not the best.

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I have been coming back and leaving for updates for YEAR'S. i was really excited about this one. I'm not excited anymore. i came back and grinded some spare frames which i never thought i would do again took a trip on memory lane. started doing Steel path which oh my god.. some thing harder. Wanted to actually FINISH Quills ranking's and put some thing into my Dojo and maybe even start getting a small community going.

Not anymore. This system was supposed to be for the players towards end game or later levels and the customization was supposed to be there. I get things needed nerfs everyone knew that right off the bat second we saw damage buffs like Rhino's Roar. we don't even have solid numbers yet so cannot complain to much right now. But problem is people are STILL going to pick those abilities! they are straight damage buffs. why should i have Vauban's 3rd ability when i don't use it at all for any content while i can still get some thing that buffs damage and makes me use energy? that goes for every frame that has abilities that are not used anymore and or needed and y'know... Still don't scale properly.

i can tell you right now. This Ability system would not have a single damn problem if ALL abilities were finally looked over and given scaling damage or effects (No not a rework of a frame just the damage scaling) for the entirety of Warframe not just this system. This way Nerfs just for Transferred abilities could have caps and time limitations different when on another frame then its host frame without people complaining. cause if we had say... "Oh look i can either take this out of my kit and build differently do some thing else i want! Or i can still keep my old kit and still do great without them!" things wouldn't be argued over this badly.

oh and the Mastery Rank needs to be put back up. this is not for new players and mastery rank 8 is no where near end game or later levels its not even mid level. NOW not just older players or experienced players have access to this but fairly new people as well. seriously it does not take that long to get to MR 15. it took me 10 days to get to MR 10. playing a few hours at a time. what are people doing?

At this Point and i'll be very Honest. Take away all the Warframe Abilities that were announced to be released with this update and go back to drawing board. and just release the Helminth Abilities and possibly make some more later.

i'm MR 21 i have been playing 6-7 years, i only have 1,000 hours into the game at most. i've done bits and pieces of the game. i've been Casual, i've been apart of grinding groups and end game groups. i know what Warframe has to offer and where it can go. and i'm saying it. cause while i was super excited for this to come out. it needs to go. a lot of people are already turned off from this update already from changes.

Until all Warframe Abilities can have scaling in the game. This should not come out. unpopular opinion of course but it needs to happen.

 

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Yeah, who would've thought that those options would've been an overwhelmingly better choice over the others? Couldn't have thought of anything else like, oh I don't know, choosing a different ability that might've actually done something for the other warframe when subsumed?

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4 hours ago, spudster888. said:

No, why should people be happy they can replace something bad with something mediocre? If thats what your system has achieved, its not a good system.

One mans mediocre trash is another mans mediocre treasure.

In this case, ensnare/null star on Chroma who doesn't have CC or get enough damage reduction does wonders.

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4 hours ago, spudster888. said:

Ah. yeah on second inspection i'd be inclined to agree. I initially thought he was having a poke at people who have a problem with the nerfs. As for the Xoris nerf, these are on the same level, nerfs that just have no place what so ever. In the case of the xoris they nerfed something that was convenient, not the best.

Exactly. Putting the Helmint segment behind the Rank 3 of the new faction is ok. 

At this point I don't even care about how big is the nerf of these abilities, I'm straight up NOT going to play it. Another disappointment after Steel Path.

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16 minutes ago, selig_fay said:

Maybe then we will use a more trusted and popular source?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newbie

How You will call MR29 player entering Interception with Saryn or Excavation with Inaros, because for me it’s pure Noob. You missing the point what will happen with players under MR15 after HoD release, everyone will go and try to hit MR15 ASAP.

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2 hours ago, Aldain said:

People are acting like the Helminth system is rocket science levels of complex and that a new player's peanut brain couldn't figure it out until they were MR15, when it would magically become a normal brain or something

The Point of mastery rank is TO GATE NEW PLAYER UNTIL THEY PLAY LONG ENOUGH TO UNDERSTAND THE GAME. Yes A new player WILL get magically smarter when they reach MR15 cause THEY PLAY LONG ENOUGH TO REACH MR 15. 

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2 minutes ago, ConsumerJTC said:

One mans mediocre trash is another mans mediocre treasure.

In this case, ensnare/null star on Chroma who doesn't have CC or get enough damage reduction does wonders.

Just because that thing is treasure to another person, doesn't make it good. Way to many warframe players confuse liking something with it being good. There is a level of objectivity due to it being a class based game. Pick the thing you enjoy most, there is nothing wrong with that, but don't confuse it with 'this thing is the absolute best'. So go nuts, thats what the system is for, but at the end of the day its still probably not the best thing  you can do. 

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4 hours ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Classic example.

"Hmm ripline doesn't get used much. Let's remove the most used archwing ability and replace it with that".

At least this time they actually playtested it before release, although why they didn't realise this straight away is still laughable.

These nerfs have nothing to do with play testing..They just waited to see what the community wanted to do. Then reacted to it. And agine like weapons   nerfing what is popular. ...

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2 minutes ago, (PS4)Onder6099 said:

How You will call MR29 player entering Interception with Saryn or Excavation with Inaros, because for me it’s pure Noob. You missing the point what will happen with players under MR15 after HoD release, everyone will go and try to hit MR15 ASAP.

In a warframe, the experience of using equipment and mr are different things. Noob can be mr29. Which brings us to the question of why noobs can't take rank 15 when it's so easy.

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3 minutes ago, ConsumerJTC said:

One mans mediocre trash is another mans mediocre treasure.

In this case, ensnare/null star on Chroma who doesn't have CC or get enough damage reduction does wonders.

Null star hasn't even been touched. Would you be of the same opinion if damage reduction would have been capped on that? Don't think so. 

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2 minutes ago, (PS4)SolarPhantom82 said:

These nerfs have nothing to do with play testing..They just waited to see what the community wanted to do. Then reacted to it. And agine like weapons   nerfing what is popular. ...

No it's not play testing, I'm willing to bet they checked what skills are used the least though.

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Also i love how they somehow capped the wukong defy when it already had a cap and the bonus generally didnt matter since wudong either lifesteals back or uses defy to gain invulnerability time , lvl 400 napalm aint gonna care about 1500 extra armor hes gonna slap yo ass ... well since they dont play at that level they dont even know 

aaaaaaaand in sorite levels even hydroid puke can kill stuff , or at worst weapons kill stuff so ooooo ahaahahah ,such a kneejerk changes i love to laugh at it man 

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(This isn't about the nerf, that was expected, that's whatever. This is about the MR change)
(I love the game, and I want the game to get better and to prevent new cool systems from basically being a "one and done" thing)


Honest concern DE, please take into consideration this feedback, which a lot of us feel like it doesn't reach you:

If you don't have something to work towards... why play... there's no sense of accomplishment for engaging with the systems

-> This will bring a spike of players for 2 to 4 weeks, then those same players will leave until the system is dumbed down further and made easier to the point its not fun to engage with it anymore, and long time players will end up going away for some time

(honestly who gave the MR feedback to lower it, it was perfectly fine...)

Everyone was excited when it was advertised as content for mildly experienced players (mr15 is straight down the middle)
I wholeheartedly think that someone is forgetting that nowadays MR ranks are BEYOND easy to get with the sheer amount of gear we have), 
Please consider the amount of content you are OVERWHELMING new players with.
There's so many systems new people have acces to, TOO early (the game has so much gear that mr 15 is basically free anyways, we're almost at mr 30 ).

This also happens with Liches, amongst other systems, which should also be locked behind atleast mr 12, so the players that try to do it have a SMIDGE of power and gear ready to use against them (example: syndicate weapons)

Fortuna release also was an example of this, mr 1-5's not being able to complete quest 1 , because the MR lock was so low

Several things will end up happeniong, as this happened with Railjack too (which btw, got basically nuked because new people kept dying and said it was bad, and everyone snowballed in . I'm still hoping we get updates for it on the future because a lot of us had fun in the challenge Railjack one. This is a consequence of catering content to new players. Now Railjack as a whole is quite the joke and not challenging or fun (i mean, skeet shooting) as it used to be, right now if you check the map you'll see that 90% of the nodes are 0-2 squads)

People , (mr 8's) will be absolutely clueless and will either : Quit the game outright after deleting one of their frames  or just ignore the system and never engage with it. Needless to say , the chats will be flooded 24/7 with "How does this work" "This is bad" "This is trash" (same thing happened to RAILJACK) and it will just cause a snowballing of bad feedback 

All of us here that play warframe, enjoy the game, spend time and money because we see the good and the potential the game has. Please DE, take into consideration the health of the game. Releasing "fast food content" (as in, people consume it and forget it, not because its developed fast or with low effort, we all know a great deal of effort and care is put into the game and its systems) , isn't healthy for the long run, and Warframe would be so much more engaging if people had a "salad" every so often. Working towards a goal is something everyone likes, especially in MMO's. Don't be afraid to use the MR system as a way to prevent players from hurting themselves or the new systems with confused feedback

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