The Helminth: Dev Workshop

[Keyhound]

if you want to understand why people are pissed at this choice, let me ask you this:

why would anyone pick tempest barrage? technically its not a bad skill, it does CC, it can spread corrosive well... and yet, nobody likes it, even on hydroid, some even call it one of his most useless abilities.

why would anyone pick desiccation when radial blind is also there?

why would anyone pick decoy when molt can also heal?

why would anyone pick terrify, when its still bordeline useless(and in some cases it can also get in the way of the party) even on nekros?

why would anyone pick airburst when even after the rework its still trash(aparently)?

even in good abilities like shock, why would anyone pick that, when smite is a far better choice for most cases?

instead of understanding this, and work to make them VIABLE choices people would argue for, you guys decide to nerf(lets call what it is). defy possibly giving less armor... as if that would make any diference due to how borked armor works here. eclipse, genius! lets make an ability that is unreliable at best, less reasons to be picked! yeah, the dmg, and dm, are massive... but what does it matter when you cant really use the one you need, when you need?

as for the MR reduction... really? 8? maybe THAT is the reason people will put rhino on everything, since he is the first frame you can farm anyway...

[Berzerkules]

Could you please fix Mirage's 3 before you nerf it? You never know what you're going to get with that ability and it's never what you want when you need it. 

It's a cool idea for an ability but in practice it's just terrible. If it was a cycleable ability like khora, Vauban, Wisp, Protea, Ivara and Titania have I would play Mirage and consider using that subsume ability. As it works right now I never play Mirage and wont use that ability on any other frame. If I want damage reduction I'll take Nova 1 and if I want dmg boost I'll take Rhino 3. 

I've consider making a config on mirage and replacing her 3 with both of those abilities. It just seems like a waste of my time replacing an ability for 2 different abilities that essentially do what could be done with her base ability. The i couldn't replace her 4 with a CC ability. I'd just be finding a work around for a poorly designed ability 

[Paidari]

Any attempt to "balance" this is doomed. Even more so than "balancing" weapons. I expect to be highly entertained.

 

Further more i propose: Since we reduced the barrier to MR8 and hence not being a mechanic for later play, lets go all the way and make MR1 the new barrier.

 

 

 

[LordLoaly]

DE please, Please, PLEASE put the mastery back up to 15. Warframe has already no progression system and I know for a fact myself that new players are massively overwhelmed. Getting started is an absolute mess to be precise. And yes, MR 8 is considered "new". Most of them barely know how to mod correctly and now they get a totally "advanced" system? See, I know you want to make it available to a big number of players so it finds success from the first day of release; but ultimately it just not right. Guve us something to work forward to. To have a goal in game. Set it up again. Please.

Ps.: you have a public test server you know that? If your playing around for exact values why not utilize it?

 

[IRVoidGuru]

4 hours ago, Dragmod said:

.As for the MR reduction, y'all just mad 'cause you have to share your candy.

so I take it that you don't understand what " very experienced warframe players " means but lets say you do. Have you reached 15 yet? Or by lowering from 15-8 are you now able to participate?

[Circle_of_Psi]

Holy, this topic blew up fast, the hell did I miss?

[Aguzo]

I don't want to get on anyone's bad side. However, some of you need to learn how to compromise

 

New MR requirement for Helminth

Summary: Changing the MR requirement from 15 to 8 shouldn't ruin anyone's mood. Exclusivity is dumb anyway, and elitism is pretty toxic. It's a game, relax and have fun.

Spoiler

 

Firstly, the game is subject to change, whenever. DE changing their minds on the MR requirement for the helminth, should not be the end of the world. Take a breather my dudes.

Why would they change it? Who knows, they more than likely discussed it. It's not as if they change their minds for no reason. Highly possible that new players who watched their livestream are mostly interested in the Heart of Deimos update. That includes the the new helminth system.

Changing the MR lock from 15 to 8 shouldn't ruin anyone's mood. Exclusivity is dumb anyway, and elitism is pretty toxic. It's a game, relax and have fun.

 

 

The "nerfs" to subsumable abilities
Summary: Instead of removing some of the subsumable abilities (like others wanted), they lowered their values, so that the originals owners would still be at the top. This is called compromise.

Spoiler

 

So DE makes a new system, to let y'all mess around and make interesting builds.

One side didn't want certain abilities in the mix, because they basically make the original frames irrelevant. I'll play whatever frame I want, because I want to, regardless if they are "S" or "F" tier. However, they were making a fairly reasonable argument. You give rhino's buff away, why use rhino? So it was decided that certain subsumed abilities would be slightly lowered.

Instead of removing some of the subsumable abilities, they lowered some values, so that the originals owners would still be at the top. This is called compromise.

 

 

No developers, in any game, want to make their players unhappy. The update isn't here yet, so don't feel bad about losing something you never had. Everyone should keep an open mind, myself included. Not saying "don't give feedback", just accept that we aren't the only one's who play the game. In my opinion, they chose the best option by not fully removing the abilities, and making the new update more inclusive.

[Keyhound]

1 minute ago, Nerohype said:

MR 8 is an insult to all veteran players - Bravo DE: you listened again to the cries of the casual noobs , that already made nightwave challenges an easy joke

nightwave was never hard, it was boring. diferent story. belive it or not, people need more than a few extra ks on a 10k bar to stay an hour doing the same mission. the "challenges" are not challenges, they are doing the exact same missions 3x. or 10x. WOW. only pros can do 10 nightmare missions...

the system has good ideas, terrible execution. and yes, i do belive the old alert system was better, as it was at least good for new players. and it also doesnt help when the nightwave SPOILS the freaking quest the community does it best to avoid spoiling...

[Salt_KuHa]

1 minute ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

Holy, this topic blew up fast, the hell did I miss?

mastery rank requirement being lowered to 8 from 15. That's most likely the reason this blew up

[(NSW)Lorkhan]

3 hours ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

Holy, this topic blew up fast, the hell did I miss?

Oh, DE nerfed all the goos powers that can be given to Helminth. The lowered the from MR 15 to MR8.

[KurtisPrime]

9 minutes ago, ebrl said:

How much money does a veteran who has everything spend on Warframe? DE doesn't really care if these people drop the game. A constant influx of new players is what keeps the machine running.

Tennogen Deluxe Prime access early viewing of weapon, speed up stuff. they are the one supporting the game.

[D_terra]

1 minute ago, (NSW)Lorkhan said:

Oh, DE nerfed all the goos powers that can be given to Helminth.

no no not all, its mainly for the damage buff like roar,eclipse,warcry and some utilities

[Rage_Inducer]

Ok, I went over the recent changes and it all makes sense BUT can we please get numbers on these things?
Can we also get more clarification on the subject of damage buffing abilities such as shock and smite with their respective augments and how they interact with other damage buffing powers (if at all)

[Circle_of_Psi]

3 hours ago, Salt_KuHa said:

mastery rank requirement being lowered to 8 from 15. That's most likely the reason this blew up

3 hours ago, (NSW)Lorkhan said:

Oh, DE nerfed all the good powers that can be given to Helminth. The lowered the from MR 15 to MR8.

Oh..I see.

Well, to be fair the Nerd is not that bad it was to be expected, due to the Powers where indeed happen to be a bit OP in certain builds, so bravo for that.

As for the MR rank thingy?, Ouch. is all I can say. They should've kept it for MR 15, cuz this will only dig a hole worse then it already is. Allowing "New Lights" to destroy a Warframe by mistake or cuz they think it's cool do to so. (Or spend all their resources on it and be stuck). But it is nice that they allow more players to join in on the fun.

So kinda a duel edged sword   

 

[(PSN)Slyagra69]

DE, what exactly is a fresh out the sacrifice quest MR 8 with barely any knowledge of the game going to do in the Helminth for the Heart of Deimos update? They’ll barely have their own Cetus syndicate maxed out, much less put any actual work into the game. This is complete and utter bull crap that you lowered the MR requirement because a bunch of whiny peasants that don’t farm for anything want a free pass. Having it at MR 15 was perfectly fine and didn’t need to be lowered. You didn’t lowered the requirement needed for Steel Path so why is this an issue? You should’ve left it alone for the veterans that actually play the game. Not give a bunch of free handouts to players that are just orbiter sitters. Round of applause to dumbest decision you’ve made.

 

[Circle_of_Psi]

1 minute ago, Rage_Inducer said:

Ok, I went over the recent changes and it all makes sense BUT can we please get numbers on these things?
Can we also get more clarification on the subject of damage buffing abilities such as shock and smite with their respective augments and how they interact with other damage buffing powers (if at all)

DE will NEVER give out this information until its released, so they avoid players steering away from the content, before it's already out.

(that never ends well anyway, but oof) 

[Salt_KuHa]

1 minute ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

As for the MR rank thingy?, Ouch. is all I can say. They should've kept it for MR 15, cuz this will only dig a hole worse then it already is. Allowing "New Lights" to destroy a Warframe by mistake or cuz they think it's cool do to so. (Or spend all their recouses on it and be stuck).  

Yeah I mean MR8 is way too low even if I was against the MR15 lock. Maybe somewhere between MR10 and MR15 would have been a better option but I dunno

[0_The_F00l]

A neutral response requesting moderation? 

The nerv on some people. 

I bet you make arguments with logic instead of insults too! 

 

As to the changes itself. 

The MR 8 part is disappointing for me cause they changed it only after they had already said its for experienced (kinda) players. 

And MR 8 players (the fresh ones not the "I don't gain MR on principle" ones) will likely not be able to use it until they grind for more than twice that time gathering resources to feed helminth so it doesn't really do much other than cause MR 8 players to wonder why they have this if they can't use it. 

Again this is on assumption of how the helminth will be made available, and it still needs standing which is its own issue for MR 8 players. 

 

The ability nerfs I expected so no real comments. Only feel they should have thought of it before making the very first dev workshop. 

 

[Circle_of_Psi]

1 minute ago, Salt_KuHa said:

Yeah I mean MR8 is way too low even if I was against the MR15 lock. Maybe somewhere between MR10 and MR15 would have been a better option but I dunno

Yeah...but DE do care more about numbers/money then anything else, so. Oh well, I guess.

I do feel bad for the new players tho, they'll have no clue what to do with this and you always have them players who do things cuz "oooo shiny"

Not a insult to anyone here, hell even I like shiny things, but it's legit bait and hook move.

[Chroia]

13 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Why do these Infused Warframe Abilities have these rules?
It was apparent in player feedback and play testing that these Infused Warframe Abilities had the potential to be the overwhelming choice; which is not ideal. Instead of changing the Ability outright due to those concerns, we decided to give them slight rules when Infused.

Seems reasonable.
 

13 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Without spoiling too much, the Helminth Segment is currently obtained in Rank 3 of the Entrati Syndicate

ty for the info.

[D_terra]

1 minute ago, Salt_KuHa said:

Yeah I mean MR8 is way too low even if I was against the MR15 lock. Maybe somewhere between MR10 and MR15 would have been a better option but I dunno

correct me if i'm wrong, but isnt MR8 can be assume already complete the starchart? i know its still count as fresh player but still atleast they should already know to certain extent. and yeah prob around MR 10-15 is a better option compare to MR8 or just straight MR15

 

[D_terra]

2 minutes ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

Yeah...but DE do care more about numbers/money then anything else, so. Oh well, I guess.

well DE need to pay the bill

2 minutes ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

I do feel bad for the new players tho, they'll have no clue what to do with this and you always have them players who do things cuz "oooo shiny"

yeah... shiny bait for newplayer that prob leaver after couple months

[Rage_Inducer]

The problem with the MR 8 change isn't that it's no longer MR 15, it's the fact that we've been told that this is a system for experienced players.
We've seen graphs and most people that stick around warframe tend to linger in the MR 10 to 13 range.
With that in mind, sure, MR 15 stands out as a more experienced player that likely has many more warframes.
You can easily hit MR10 and only ever get 3 warframes in total so I find it hard to buy the whole idea of it still being for experienced players any more.

[(PSN)Slyagra69]

1 minute ago, D_terra said:

correct me if i'm wrong, but isnt MR8 can be assume already complete the starchart? i know its still count as fresh player but still atleast they should already know to certain extent. and yeah prob around MR 10-15 is a better option compare to MR8 or just straight MR15

 

An MR 8 wont have the star chart completed unless they were carried. And even if that did happen, most of their builds wouldn’t even tickle a level 50 enemy. MR 15 was perfectly fine. It would’ve given an incentive for players to grind for something.

[RyanCooper101]

1 minute ago, D_terra said:

correct me if i'm wrong, but isnt MR8 can be assume already complete the starchart? i know its still count as fresh player but still atleast they should already know to certain extent. and yeah prob around MR 10-15 is a better option compare to MR8 or just straight MR15

 

I know people that are mr 16 - 20 that havent completed starchart

there's 562 gear items in the game, getting MR 15 is easy, getting MR 8 is even easier, players won't know what to do , since there's also things like Railjack, Open Worlds, Eidolons, Orbs, Liches, that aren't locked to higher MR's that will overwhelm them ebcause they have acces to them all at once