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On 2020-08-12 at 7:27 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

EDIT: We have also changed the Mastery Rank Prerequisite of the Helminth Segment to 8 (was 15).

I think that was a horrible idea. Now you even take the illusion from the players that this is an "experienced players system". I am well over mr 12 on this account which has less than 70hours ingame time. Mr8 is honestly a joke nowadays.

The other nerfs were bound to happen but please you have to lock content behind a kind of general progression, not long unecessary individual grinds, but a progression so that you will feel like you "earned" to play a certain content. Why even play past mr 16? The bit more daily stuff barely matters and there is nothing to gain other than "social standing" from the countless hours you "waste" playing whatever leveling mission you may choose.

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3 minutes ago, IGN_Maverick said:

I do agree on this particular aspect. But don't you think that Valkyr can be buffed too following the same logic? I mean, Valkyr can still take 1 ability from another frame or am I  missing something here? That would open up many different scenarios. Anyways DE is nerfing for another reason, so we are discussing just our personal views.

I was just trying to highlight a not too abstract scenario of a newer player who might feed helmith Valkyr and might never revisit her because they can put her arguably best ability on any frame they want. But with the subsume nerf, she uses her arguably strongest ability to it's fullest potential and that player would have incentive to get her again. Which is why I'm happy with the change. There aren't a lot of berserker frames that work like Valkyr. I could see myself putting a number of abilities in to expand her kit into a niche of another frame. While the possible ability combinations aren't endless, the buildcraft is and that's what I'm most excited for with Helminth.

 

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3 minutes ago, Sahansral said:

Nice picking only this sentence out of my response.
But I can assure you that it has nothing to do with my ability to aim but with the kill speed of certain frames/meele weapons.

That's your only argument, basically.

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8 minutes ago, (PS4)GER_SIGNUM said:

Iam worry about the increasing of Trolls in case of Limbos Banish! 

At least it´s not Cataclysm....

At the moment, when we see an MR5 using Limbo, we can at least cancel the mission right at the start.

Having some trolls banish random enemies in a defense/survival/disruption mission though will cause a lot of rage quits, no doubt about this.

Edited by IamLoco
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people complain but it could have been SO much worse; imagine if they made the segment a bounty reward: now you'd have to contend with RNG just to access the system, and likely end up doing even more bounties than you'd need for rank 3 because you keep getting shafted by RNG. people keep saying they'd prefer a system of guaranteed progression where grind = eventual reward, yet every time a new syndicate comes out - which is a grind = reward system, they complain. 

if it were a rank 5 reward, i'd understand, but 3rd rank? that's quite achieveable. and anyway, the moment I heard it required a Segment I knew it'd be locked behind the Entrati, how else are they gonna persuade you to do the bounties? you ask for content that has longevity, that takes a bit more time to digest, this is what it looks like.

 

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4 minutes ago, Sahansral said:

Come on, share your wisdom, how would you buff things like decoy or air burst to be preferable to curent roar?
I'm very excited to see you trying.

Airburst - Should properly group enemies together when using the 'pull' effect, and enemies sent flying by the explosion should take %HP damage on impact with the ground or objects, similar to Frost's 3 'push' effect. This would make it more useful for Zephyr herself, and would grant it utility for warframes that like having enemies grouped together for particular abilities, i.e. Gara's 4, Rhino's 1 augment, Harrow's 1, Ember's 4, Hydroid's 3.

Decoy - Should honestly be replaced, with Resonator in the game Decoy is literally obsolete in every way, its only niche use-case currently being a ranged teleportation node. Loki's kit is quite simply outdated.

4 minutes ago, Sahansral said:

With your definition of fun, we would still have things like miraculor, old Blade storm, World of Fire, Blessing, Sound Wave etc, etc.
Yeah, that is fun - for one player, while the rest of the team struggles to find enemies.

Miraculor was bad, true. Though Mirage still needs a rework, and hall of mirrors serves as nothing more than a nerf to the potential of projectile weapons in-game. Simulor should've been made into a better weapon instead of a gimmick tool.

The only issue with old Blade Storm is that Ash was stuck in it. New Blade Storm is too slow for most situations now.

World on Fire was boring, and should have been changed, but it was only really effective at low levels. You know, the level where literally anything that has been decently modded is effective.

Bless is a fine ability, 99% DR was not. Trinity actually could use a bit (or a lot) of a rework.

Sound Wave at least had a purpose, now it has none, and frankly, neither does Banshee. A rework is in order.

As for your gripes about the power of other players, if you want to kill things, solo is right there. Or you can make some friends and you can all play warframe with guns only. Balance decisions should not be made because of issues you have with other people's play-styles, and this is coming from someone who still considers Limbo an annoyance.

5 minutes ago, Sahansral said:

Try having fun with primaries/secondaries when teammates kill things faster than you can zoom-in or make hundred times moar damage with their melee builds.

Primaries are currently some of the weakest weapons in the game, secondaries on the other hand are actually some of the strongest. Melee obviously scale far better due to combo scaling, so rather than scream about nerfing melee, how bout we just buff firearms? Makes a lot more sense to me.

5 minutes ago, Sahansral said:

And yet, even in this situation, people like you still think more power equals more fun.

Utterly incomprehnsible.

Go play your Remnant from the Ashes.

Everyone has opinions. Acting like yours is inherently 'correct' is a fallacy. Statistically speaking and logically speaking it makes far more sense to bring everything up to speed, rather than simply hammer down what is 'best'. Or they could try to actually balance the game in a consistent manner. DE hasn't done either as of yet, and based on that track record I would hope you be careful about what you ask for. A slightly weaker 'meta' is still going to be better than what you want to use.

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I do have a question is the mastery lock for the quest that unlocks the Cambion Rift or building the Segment ?

Because for the quest I would add a requirement to have a K-Drive. I mean you should have some skills already to mount a velocipod right?

Also maybe that players have completed already lets say 5 bounties in Orb Vallis/PoE so they know a bit about bounties. 

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At this point I'm used to disappointment from Warframe, nerfs, new player pandering, what's new, I've been playing Guild Wars 2 lately, you know what made me look forward to playing it and kept me coming back? End game rewards, not gear, a mount, a dragon, the most difficult thing to achieve in the game, and yet it made me giddy just waiting to play some more to get it, now I'm working on getting some more cool stuff to augment my gameplay like maxing out gliders and a bunch of other things, Warframe has NOTHING TO LOOK FORWARD TO, you just give everyone everything for no afford at all, the closest thing we had to what I experienced in Guild Wars was the Mastery perks system, but it's so dull and boring. The grind is basic and throttled to be annoying and the reward is miniscule by comparison, stop the nerfs, stop the pandering, stop the mundane rewards, Warframes are already OP and can solo anything and everything, letting them be even more OP won't kill the game especially if you have no plans to make "difficult" content, which at this point going to require a full rework of many core systems, give us meaningful progression to look forward to, i guess the "Mechs" will be the last thing left that might be somewhat interesting, but I feel like it'll be K-Drives 2.0 with unbearable grind with no mods those "Mechs" until the last level of Rep where actual useful augment are, which at that point most people gave up on because it was so boring to grind for with slow unmodded K-Drives/Mechs, also 120% it'll be pondered to new players anyway.

Man i tried to stay positive with Warframe, been supporting it for so long, but it's getting so hard to get excited about anything, it'll all get nerfed, pandered to noobs, be underwhelming, or just flatout forgotten or scrapped like the two handed scythes and melee channeling mode, it's just not worth getting excited over anything anymore.

After the Heart of Demios Island I'll probably take a long break from Warframe.

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vor 4 Minuten schrieb KurtisPrime:

Your entire argument is "My team mate too strong" Solo exist. and the majority of people use it. it a good thing when there are stronger team mate killing thing for you in a PVE LOOTER SHOOTER.

Do you have any statistics that could back that up? Perhaps Warframe changed from COOP multiplayer to Solo experience and I didn't get the message, maybe?
If not, I consider Warframe still mainly a coop game, that needs to offer fun for every player in a team.
I have no problem with other players making more damage. I have a problem, when I enjoy playing with others and anyone can decide how much fun everyone will have by choosing loadouts with certain broken combinations.  Looting becomes irrelevant in the long run, when the core game loop becomes damaged.
 

vor 2 Minuten schrieb IGN_Maverick:

That's your only argument, basically.

To be precise, that wasn't a argument, but a explanation/example.

For both of you, my theses were:
* you can't buff certain abilitites to the level of roar, so you instead have to tone down things like roar
* we have well known incidents of things that took the fun out of the game and had to be toned down. And in hindsight these were healthy for the game.
* the situation is currently bad enough. No need to increase the killspeed/-range even further with such a great leap that the 6 abilitites would offer in their current form.

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DE seriously... Did you watch Brozimes video and do exactly what most players was afraid of/expecting? “Balancing” ONLY by nerfing the few really good abilities instead of looking at all the worthless ones people will never use? And yes, we know that’s the easiest way. But it’s not about being easy and effortless. It’s about making the game better. Rather delay it then, and talk to us about it. WE WOULD UNDERSTAND if you actually just communicate.

And why practically remove the MR requirements?! God dammit. Going back on EVERYTHING you said this system would be, and your intentions with it. Of course you would get some backlash from some players who have no patience and apparently can’t work towards anything. Which should be the point of the game in the first place. Make people excited to advance. Show some backbone please, stick with it. It WAS the right choice.

I was really trying to get back into the game, get excited and hyped. I was almost there, and then you pull this classic stunt. I give up.

 

Update/edit: If the irony wasn’t obvious then please, let me explain. You say you don’t want ppl to focus on specific abilities. Other than not looking at the ones that won’t be used no matter how much you nerf the better ones, how do you think new players think? If I was new (MR8, which you could probably get to in a couple of days), then I would ONLY see Roar. Why? More dmg. I don’t have the best mods, builds etc. I don’t know what I’m doing yet, don’t know the frames and their unique mechanics. So lowering is “not smart” on so many levels.

 

But DE knows all of the above. Let’s be honest. That they keep doing stuff like it anyway and just take the heat instead, is really really disrespectful to us, your players.

Edited by XXELENT
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6 hours ago, Grimm said:

have two of your frame is a little unbalanced. it triples the damage of any of your skills as you have your own cast and the x2 damage cast of the clone. i would be broken af. where as china they do what they wanted 

Ture lol

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24 minutes ago, EREBUS-LORN said:

The only problem I have is with the lowered MR. Why wasn't it good at MR15? As you advertised this system is for experienced players, at MR8 a player is still maybe 20 hours into the game, and has no experience whatsoever. They don't have the resources either, nor the frames. Even for a MR15 player its gonna be a challenge to climb the ranks for the Helminth since they will still lack and need a lot of loot. And by lowering the MR for everything you wonder why players burn through game modes and content so fast, not everything should be for everyone. But that's only my 2 cents on it. otherwise I'm still looking forward for the update. Hope it won't get DElayed.

I don't really see how a MR15 player will struggle with resources tbh. I just got to MR 15 and I'm sitting on such a stockpile of resources that I'm honestly glad that I can literally feed them to something. Even railjack was cheap to build and I built it BEFORE they made it cheaper. I might be completely wrong on this but I bet that I will have no problem climbing the ranks for the Helminth. Also I do agree that lowering the MR requirement to 8 is a bit extreme. In my opinion MR10 would have been a better option if they truly HAD to lower the requirement.

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if you want to understand why people are pissed at this choice, let me ask you this:

why would anyone pick tempest barrage? technically its not a bad skill, it does CC, it can spread corrosive well... and yet, nobody likes it, even on hydroid, some even call it one of his most useless abilities.

why would anyone pick desiccation when radial blind is also there?

why would anyone pick decoy when molt can also heal?

why would anyone pick terrify, when its still bordeline useless(and in some cases it can also get in the way of the party) even on nekros?

why would anyone pick airburst when even after the rework its still trash(aparently)?

even in good abilities like shock, why would anyone pick that, when smite is a far better choice for most cases?

instead of understanding this, and work to make them VIABLE choices people would argue for, you guys decide to nerf(lets call what it is). defy possibly giving less armor... as if that would make any diference due to how borked armor works here. eclipse, genius! lets make an ability that is unreliable at best, less reasons to be picked! yeah, the dmg, and dm, are massive... but what does it matter when you cant really use the one you need, when you need?

as for the MR reduction... really? 8? maybe THAT is the reason people will put rhino on everything, since he is the first frame you can farm anyway...

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Could you please fix Mirage's 3 before you nerf it? You never know what you're going to get with that ability and it's never what you want when you need it. 

It's a cool idea for an ability but in practice it's just terrible. If it was a cycleable ability like khora, Vauban, Wisp, Protea, Ivara and Titania have I would play Mirage and consider using that subsume ability. As it works right now I never play Mirage and wont use that ability on any other frame. If I want damage reduction I'll take Nova 1 and if I want dmg boost I'll take Rhino 3. 

I've consider making a config on mirage and replacing her 3 with both of those abilities. It just seems like a waste of my time replacing an ability for 2 different abilities that essentially do what could be done with her base ability. The i couldn't replace her 4 with a CC ability. I'd just be finding a work around for a poorly designed ability 

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Any attempt to "balance" this is doomed. Even more so than "balancing" weapons. I expect to be highly entertained.

 

Further more i propose: Since we reduced the barrier to MR8 and hence not being a mechanic for later play, lets go all the way and make MR1 the new barrier.

 

 

 

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DE please, Please, PLEASE put the mastery back up to 15. Warframe has already no progression system and I know for a fact myself that new players are massively overwhelmed. Getting started is an absolute mess to be precise. And yes, MR 8 is considered "new". Most of them barely know how to mod correctly and now they get a totally "advanced" system? See, I know you want to make it available to a big number of players so it finds success from the first day of release; but ultimately it just not right. Guve us something to work forward to. To have a goal in game. Set it up again. Please.

Ps.: you have a public test server you know that? If your playing around for exact values why not utilize it?

 

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4 hours ago, Dragmod said:

.As for the MR reduction, y'all just mad 'cause you have to share your candy.

so I take it that you don't understand what " very experienced warframe players " means but lets say you do. Have you reached 15 yet? Or by lowering from 15-8 are you now able to participate?

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I don't want to get on anyone's bad side. However, some of you need to learn how to compromise

 

New MR requirement for Helminth

Summary: Changing the MR requirement from 15 to 8 shouldn't ruin anyone's mood. Exclusivity is dumb anyway, and elitism is pretty toxic. It's a game, relax and have fun.

Spoiler

 

Firstly, the game is subject to change, whenever. DE changing their minds on the MR requirement for the helminth, should not be the end of the world. Take a breather my dudes.

Why would they change it? Who knows, they more than likely discussed it. It's not as if they change their minds for no reason. Highly possible that new players who watched their livestream are mostly interested in the Heart of Deimos update. That includes the the new helminth system.

Changing the MR lock from 15 to 8 shouldn't ruin anyone's mood. Exclusivity is dumb anyway, and elitism is pretty toxic. It's a game, relax and have fun.

 

 

The "nerfs" to subsumable abilities
Summary: Instead of removing some of the subsumable abilities (like others wanted), they lowered their values, so that the originals owners would still be at the top. This is called compromise.

Spoiler

 

So DE makes a new system, to let y'all mess around and make interesting builds.

One side didn't want certain abilities in the mix, because they basically make the original frames irrelevant. I'll play whatever frame I want, because I want to, regardless if they are "S" or "F" tier. However, they were making a fairly reasonable argument. You give rhino's buff away, why use rhino? So it was decided that certain subsumed abilities would be slightly lowered.

Instead of removing some of the subsumable abilities, they lowered some values, so that the originals owners would still be at the top. This is called compromise.

 

 

No developers, in any game, want to make their players unhappy. The update isn't here yet, so don't feel bad about losing something you never had. Everyone should keep an open mind, myself included. Not saying "don't give feedback", just accept that we aren't the only one's who play the game. In my opinion, they chose the best option by not fully removing the abilities, and making the new update more inclusive.

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1 minute ago, Nerohype said:

MR 8 is an insult to all veteran players - Bravo DE: you listened again to the cries of the casual noobs , that already made nightwave challenges an easy joke

nightwave was never hard, it was boring. diferent story. belive it or not, people need more than a few extra ks on a 10k bar to stay an hour doing the same mission. the "challenges" are not challenges, they are doing the exact same missions 3x. or 10x. WOW. only pros can do 10 nightmare missions...

the system has good ideas, terrible execution. and yes, i do belive the old alert system was better, as it was at least good for new players. and it also doesnt help when the nightwave SPOILS the freaking quest the community does it best to avoid spoiling...

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9 minutes ago, ebrl said:

How much money does a veteran who has everything spend on Warframe? DE doesn't really care if these people drop the game. A constant influx of new players is what keeps the machine running.

Tennogen Deluxe Prime access early viewing of weapon, speed up stuff. they are the one supporting the game.

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Ok, I went over the recent changes and it all makes sense BUT can we please get numbers on these things?
Can we also get more clarification on the subject of damage buffing abilities such as shock and smite with their respective augments and how they interact with other damage buffing powers (if at all)

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