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The Helminth: Dev Workshop


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8 minutes ago, Salt_KuHa said:

To be fair I don't see the reason for it to be MR15 when it could be MR14,13,12,11 or 10. Do those 5 extra Mastery Ranks really make a player more skilled in the game? Does levelling mastery fodder weapons and frames they might never play again really make a player more experienced? I understand having it locked behind MR but 15 is maybe a bit too much.

It would show the players that want to achieve something, will put it the work for it. If you don’t want to work for something, then you sure as hell don’t deserve the rewards. It’s like players who want to fight profit taker, but don’t even meet the requirements to do the fight because they’re lazy. Screw those players. If you don’t want to grind for what you want, then that’s on you and you don’t deserve jack. 

Edited by (PS4)Slyagra69
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Hello everyone,

just dropping in to leave a comment on this topic to show some presence and some love. Seeing over 120 pages of comments shows me how enganged everyone is for the new update.
 Now on the topic itself. The Helminth- or Chrysalis(is this how you write it ?)-System is a new aproach in Warframe it gives you the ability to exchange one ability of a config of your Warframe with another one from a diffrent Warframe. The pool of abilitys is fixed since you only get one ability per subsumed Warframe. The new mechanic lets you remove a certain ability in a config wich you never used to a better more usefull one. This is for me is the main target of this system. However it does not fix or rework a Frame entirely it improves the current situation of the Warframe. What it actually does is: it lifts a bit of shoulderweight from the developer so they dont need to rework all the not so good, but ok, frames and gives the player the ability to adress the problem via the chrysalissystem.
Overpowered builds have been a thing in Warframe since i can think of. Right now and in the past the only way to accomplish those builds was via your choosen Warframe, weapons, companion, focusschool, arcanes and Mods (,maybe even specters). With the next update we will be able to break the warframe into its single abilitys giving us a new method to aquire new builds for our missions and to be honest im quite looking forward to see what the community will come up with.
My opinion on the nerf is: totally fine with me i didnt thought it was a good idea to put those abilitys in the first place because it sounded ridicilous to  gift the rhino roar to a Saryn and so on you know the deal.
To lower the Masteryrequirement for the system down to 8 is a good idea to it makes the new content easily accessible for newcomers and a target to look forward to when starting the game. 

With 💗Love💗,

Vasur

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I'll try to contain my frustration over the changes, and just provide some constructive critisism.

 

What would be more enjoyable would be to bring the weak abilities up to par and make them actually worth the energy-cost and ability slot, instead of just nerfing abilities that might make weak Warframes more playable.

I get that it's a lot of abilities to buff all at once before release, but they don't all need to be good at launch. Just check what abilities are not being used, and buff the least popular ones alongside bigger updates.

Edited by Noel_Woodsoul
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3 minutes ago, Salt_KuHa said:

To be fair I don't see the reason for it to be MR15 when it could be MR14,13,12,11 or 10. Do those 5 extra Mastery Ranks really make a player more skilled in the game? Does levelling mastery fodder weapons and frames they might never play again really make a player more experienced? I understand having it locked behind MR but 15 is maybe a bit too much.

15 isn't too much, game is almost at MR 30 , so reaching 15 is easy
By the time you're mr 15 you'll have a good amount of resources
Strong builds
Experience
You'll also be more acquainted with the OTHER systems the game has (open world/liches/railjack/etc)

People that play on weekends reach mr 16 or more without even trying
 

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NNNICCCEEEE, not even out yet and you gave all your dedicated players a big FU, why in the hell is it MR8 now??? they cant even mod for themselves half the time. if youre just going to nerf abilities switch them for better utility, you said you were going to change how some skills work anyways so why not give us something like volts shield without the crit multiplier just a pure defensive tool. I was expecting nerfs for sure but the fact that you even lowered the MR requirement so much is stupid as hell. Ridiculous

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vor 20 Minuten schrieb IGN_Maverick:

Your points:

1- I don't give a S#&$ about solo players, because me,myself and I like coop.

2- I have no problems with players making more damage, unless it doesn't fit my exquisitely narrow minded take on how people sould play and interact when in team with me.

On the side note: why don't you just premade with friends if you are bothered by how randoms play the game? Oh, well, I might know the answer...

You really like to build strawmen, don't you?


1) If you play solo, you can't negatively effect other player's fun. Feel free to do whatever you want. You want killspeed, you already have that. I don't see many complaints in the forums about killing too slow. Giving even a toned down roar on top of that is icing on the cake for you.

2) If thinking that every player in a team should have fun is narrowminded then yes, I'm guilty. Btw, if you bring premades into consideration, it's healthier for the game, when DE strives for balance that ensures that random people have a good chance of having fun playing together without having to filter all unbalanced pitfalls.
If you want more killspeed, you can do the hassle and arrange premades.

Edited by Sahansral
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1 hour ago, killerJoke66 said:

i wake up seeing helminth getting nerfed when its embrio form and not even born ... i guess we cant have nice things ? 

i view this as a nice thing, but all the same if you've ever seen this community react to changes post launch then you can understand it's better to aim low from the start rather than doing it later down the line, better it not make it out the embryo stage in such a state lest you prompt bigger tantrums some ways down the road. 

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lmao.

This thread is such a dumpster fire.

What does it changes for YOU Veteran player that MR8 is the new requirement ? What does it takes away ? Why would you suddenly NOT enjoy the update because of it ? Because a somewhat beginner who's just fresh on unlocking the star chart can get access to it ? Most of these players wouldn't even have access to spare frame anyway. 

You want to feel special ?

You know how you could "feel special" actually ? By not being boring and putting a generic damage buff on your warframe.

You could use Null Star w/ augment on Banshee (or any squishy frame really) so she can have a bit of survivability besides Silence. Or Garuda's Blood Altar. Or Defy, even if capped, if Defy gives just 500 armor instead of 1500, it's still very good for frames like Hydroid who lacks tankiness.

You could use Empowered Quiver on Mesa and spam 4 on top of it. Since Ivara's zipline allows you to use your ability when you're on them, and Empowered Quiver boost your critical damage. It not only allows your Mesa to get THE perfect positioning in your defense mission but it would also gives you way better DPS overall.

You can use Pillage on Harrow so you always stays at max shields and can buff your team extremely easily. While I'm at it, Pillage is also extremely good for squishy frames too, and gives a percentage of the enemy shield/armor which of course scales with enemy level.

Talking about Harrow, Condemn is quite a decent ability. It gives very easy headshots, CC, and shields while being easily spammable. Pretty good.

Ash's seeking shuriken is also extremely strong. Heck, Banshee herself can give Silence which is an extremely good CC ability with gigantic range and decent duration.

There's a LOT of possibilities honestly. I really wants to experiment on my frames and I can't wait for the update. Heck even if all the abilities had half their original strenght they would still be good depending on the combination you choose.

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6 hours ago, (XB1)C11H22O11 said:

They warned that there might be changes before launch, better to make the changes now instead of changing them later and piss some people off. 

idd

also roar and warcry are still in, even nerfed, this is a big shocker tbh
even nerfed they are still great for min-maxing and replacing completely useless abilities on a number of frames

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The nerfs I don't have any problem with.

Eclipse would have been a bit much considering how much it boosts damage and tankyness.

The Mr change was pretty S#&$ on the other hand. It should be at least mr 10 or mr 12 at max. Mr 8 players are usually pretty crap with the game. Sorry but that's my personal experience.

Edited by JackHargreav
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1 minute ago, RyanCooper101 said:

15 isn't too much, game is almost at MR 30 , so reaching 15 is easy
By the time you're mr 15 you'll have a good amount of resources
Strong builds
Experience
You'll also be more acquainted with the OTHER systems the game has (open world/liches/railjack/etc)

People that play on weekends reach mr 16 or more without even trying
 

Fair I guess. I was just personally "stuck" on MR14 for ages before this update gave me a reason to continue levelling weapons and frames. I might be playing the game a bit wrong because I use like 1-2 frames and the same set of weapons for every missions I do which means I gain a grand total of 0 mastery XP for my time playing. Just seems kinda weird that a friend of mine that has been playing for years is at MR18 and thus only 3 levels higher than the old requirement for the helminth system.

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Just now, Isokaze_BestKaze said:

What does it changes for YOU Veteran player that MR8 is the new requirement ? What does it takes away ? Why would you suddenly NOT enjoy the update because of it ? Because a somewhat beginner who's just fresh on unlocking the star chart can get access to it ? Most of these players wouldn't even have access to spare frame anyway.

The who point is it gave new player something to progress toward. MR mean nothing after 16.

 

Just now, Isokaze_BestKaze said:

You could use Null Star w/ augment on Banshee (or any squishy frame really) so she can have a bit of survivability besides Silence. Or Garuda's Blood Altar. Or Defy, even if capped, if Defy gives just 500 armor instead of 1500, it's still very good for frames like Hydroid who lacks tankiness.

You could use Empowered Quiver on Mesa and spam 4 on top of it. Since Ivara's zipline allows you to use your ability when you're on them, and Empowered Quiver boost your critical damage. It not only allows your Mesa to get THE perfect positioning in your defense mission but it would also gives you way better DPS overall.

You can use Pillage on Harrow so you always stays at max shields and can buff your team extremely easily. While I'm at it, Pillage is also extremely good for squishy frames too, and gives a percentage of the enemy shield/armor which of course scales with enemy level.

Talking about Harrow, Condemn is quite a decent ability. It gives very easy headshots, CC, and shields while being easily spammable. Pretty good.

Ash's seeking shuriken is also extremely strong. Heck, Banshee herself can give Silence which is an extremely good CC ability with gigantic range and decent duration

De be like: "Thank for notifying us which ability to neft"  

If they are so neft happy now what make you think they stop after update. All they do is look at how popular something is and neft it.

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51 minutes ago, ebrl said:

How much money does a veteran who has everything spend on Warframe? DE doesn't really care if these people drop the game. A constant influx of new players is what keeps the machine running.

Veterans provide the economy of the game. When you spend money to buy an arcane, you go to the warframe market site and not to the game market because this is not available as a standard store feature. 

On the other hand, if you are a beginner, this does not mean that you cannot get platinum in in game. Another point is that spending money does not depend on rank. I am a rank 29 player and I bought the Titania Prime Pack.  My friend mr 18 spends a lot of money on cosmetic items. 

It is a mistake to think that only beginners make money.

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DE: We're gonna buff some abilities being added to this system so that they're more appealing and give more possibilities to the players!
Also DE: Actually we did that with 2 abilities total and now we're gonna nerf the actually good abilities

I was actually excited to grind up to mr15. I've spent the past week moving up from mr11 now I'm almost mr13, and now I have no motivation to move forward. But what should I expect, this is warframe. Revert the changes, buff the low quality abilities or change them our with better ones.

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Just now, RGZephyrus said:

i won't complain about the nerf until they reveal the exact number.but damn those nerf really scare me

The fact its been nerfed at all is rather silly since DE chose which abilities would be in the system. Could've given us Stomp or Charge, yet they chose Roar.

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I don’t actually care about what mastery you need to be and all to use good ol Helmy, but I’m worried actual newer players (not talking about tenno who are deep into the game and don’t care about mastery) won’t actually understand what’s going on.

 Will you guys be making a good warning system about it? Maybe something like “Subsuming the [Warframe] selected will destroy it COMPLETELY and you will NOT be able to use this warframe again. It will disappear from your arsenal completely along with any Formas and reactor put into it. Are you sure you wish to proceed?” Then have them type out SUBSUME or something for a failsafe.

I know some people don’t read, but if anyone complains at least you can say you had a good warning set up.

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vor 13 Stunden schrieb [DE]Megan:

PART 1 - Changes to select Infused Warframe Abilities

Please keep in mind we’re still testing/playing around with the values for each, hence why the values are not present below:

The following only apply to Infused Warframe Abilities:

Rhino - Roar
Diminished Damage increase

Mirage - Eclipse
Diminished Damage increase and cap Damage Reduction 

Valkyr - Warcry
Attack speed increase reduced

Protea - Dispenser
Duration reduced

Nidus - Larva
Radius reduced

Wukong - Defy
Armor capped


Why do these Infused Warframe Abilities have these rules?
It was apparent in player feedback and play testing that these Infused Warframe Abilities had the potential to be the overwhelming choice; which is not ideal. Instead of changing the Ability outright due to those concerns, we decided to give them slight rules when Infused.

Without numbers there isnt really much to talk about, however nidus larva is in danger of becoming useless instead now depending on how much you nerf its range. I understand wanting to bring down the high end of the abilities a bit but this wont help the weakest abilities at all. They still need some buffs before they can compete with anything on the list, like decoy, ice wave or Desiccation.

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Quote

 Will you guys be making a good warning system about it? Maybe something like “Subsuming the [Warframe] selected will destroy it COMPLETELY and you will NOT be able to use this warframe again. It will disappear from your arsenal completely along with any Formas and reactor put into it. Are you sure you wish to proceed?” Then have them type out SUBSUME or something for a failsafe.

was already in place during tennocon, the forma/reactor thing should be there

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3 minutes ago, Nox_Terminus said:

The fact its been nerfed at all is rather silly since DE chose which abilities would be in the system. Could've given us Stomp or Charge, yet they chose Roar.

No ultimates. I still don't understand why they didn't go with Charge. It fits right in with the system and they wouldn't be beating their heads against the wall trying to find a value/balance on an impossible to balance ability.

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The community has responded as to how they feel, these changes are disappointing. These changes should be reverted and be seen in action before any changes are considered. Everything looks powerful on paper, we need to be able to actually see these changes before anyone can come to a conclusion on them.
Do not nerf them, do not buff them. Revert the changes to Roar, Warcry, Eclipse, Defy, Larva, and the MR requirement to 15. These abilities should be seen in action by players before drastic changes without even seeing the stats can be made. Consider builds and how some abilities, while useful to another ability in a kit, can be 'self-nerfing' or equalized by a Warframe's build. 

The mastery rank requirement of 15 was absolutely fair. I took me about a month to reach MR 15 from 0, and it gave me plenty of time to fully understand how the system work. MR is not about skill, and it isn't about me being selfish and demanding that the MR 29 be the lock because I believe only the "cool kid veterans" are allowed to have this system. Maybe not even a hard MR lock. Why not lock it behind a quest such as the Sacrifice + Glast Gambit, by then a player should be fairly experienced with the games content and systems. Having the lock be MR 8 doesn't help towards the New Player Experience. Remember you're working on this. From the perspective of a new player they have a hard time learning about Eidolons and Orb Mothers, somewhat complicated systems for players to be learning about at such an early stage as Earth and Venus, and soon there will be one right next to Mars.

As many others before me have stated:
These are not the correct changes, revert them and take time to view how the players will deal with them that isn't on paper. Everything sounds great on paper but isn't always the case. This is your chance to show the community you're listening to reason rather than unfounded panic from a new system none of us have any experience with.

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