Jump to content
Temporary sub-forum for Update 30: Call of the Tempestarii ×

Recommended Posts

18 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

PART 1 - Changes to select Infused Warframe Abilities

Please keep in mind we’re still testing/playing around with the values for each, hence why the values are not present below:

The following only apply to Infused Warframe Abilities:

Rhino - Roar
Diminished Damage increase

Mirage - Eclipse
Diminished Damage increase and cap Damage Reduction 

Valkyr - Warcry
Attack speed increase reduced

Protea - Dispenser
Duration reduced

Nidus - Larva
Radius reduced

Wukong - Defy
Armor capped

I'm sorry, but half of these nerfs are far from needed and in fact it's a very hard slap in the face to all players alike who are prepping for this update. What's the point of getting frames to sacrifice to helmnth if the abilitiy stats are gonna be very bad in comparison to the warframes said ability comes from. Also why have you not given us numbers regarding this change? This makes us more worried as if it's gonna be for example half of what it was on their respective warframes then this nerf will cause great upset with the entire community.
 

17 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

EDIT: We have also changed the Mastery Rank Prerequisite of the Helminth Segment to 8 (was 15).

First off you guys broke your word regarding that this system was not intended for new players
 4:34 - 4:44 on video below you have said and I quote "This system is not for beginners"


Second, that statement is still very true from what I have evaluated after taking a look at the helminth system many times over especially with how some warframes work clearly indicates you need to understand how abilities interact with each other and know what abilities are worth putting on or not and get rid of on a config. This is knowledge that only people who played for a long time will have absorbed for quite a bit. People who are MR8 will most likely not be fluent on how to take advantage of that knowledge. At that point players are still trying to get warframes and learn how they play.

I would like to kindly ask that you consider reverting these changes. Set the MR requirement back to 15+ and do not nerf any abilities.
 

Edited by (XB1)Vaktalor
  • Like 17
Link to post
Share on other sites
il y a 10 minutes, KurtisPrime a dit :

The who point is it gave new player something to progress toward. MR mean nothing after 16.

 

De be like: "Thank for notifying us which ability to neft"  

If they are so neft happy now what make you think they stop after update. All they do is look at how popular something is and neft it.

No problem. As I said, even if all those abilities were nerfed to half their effectiveness, they would still be good. Null Star with augment is free 90% damage reduction. Even if you nerf it to 45% I would still use it on Banshee's because it gives her better survivability and her 1 is barely used.

It actually gave me another idea. I always play Equinox with 4's augment, max range and max duration. And what is Mesa's ability to subsume ? Shooting gallery, which benefits from duration and range. Since I never use her 2 (and I don't care about focus farming), I'll be able to disarm the mobs while boosting friendlies damage and storing in my 4. The nuker will also becomes tanky af.

Edited by Isokaze_BestKaze
Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Salt_KuHa said:

Fair I guess. I was just personally "stuck" on MR14 for ages before this update gave me a reason to continue levelling weapons and frames. I might be playing the game a bit wrong because I use like 1-2 frames and the same set of weapons for every missions I do which means I gain a grand total of 0 mastery XP for my time playing. Just seems kinda weird that a friend of mine that has been playing for years is at MR18 and thus only 3 levels higher than the old requirement for the helminth system.

That's a player choice, if you only ever use 3 warframes.. that's not the game's fault xD. You are supposed to experiment, build more tools, many warframes do better in scenarios where other warframes struggle. Same for your friend, if you don't build new items, you won't go up.

There's plenty of good gear to get, if you just build the good stuff skipping "bad items", you'll still be around MR 19-21
(sentinels, pets, warframes, kdrives, amps, arch gun, arch melee, primaries, secondaries, melee, sentinel weapons)

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Isokaze_BestKaze said:

lmao.

This thread is such a dumpster fire.

What does it changes for YOU Veteran player that MR8 is the new requirement ? What does it takes away ? Why would you suddenly NOT enjoy the update because of it ? Because a somewhat beginner who's just fresh on unlocking the star chart can get access to it ? Most of these players wouldn't even have access to spare frame anyway. 

You want to feel special ?

You know how you could "feel special" actually ? By not being boring and putting a generic damage buff on your warframe.

You could use Null Star w/ augment on Banshee (or any squishy frame really) so she can have a bit of survivability besides Silence. Or Garuda's Blood Altar. Or Defy, even if capped, if Defy gives just 500 armor instead of 1500, it's still very good for frames like Hydroid who lacks tankiness.

You could use Empowered Quiver on Mesa and spam 4 on top of it. Since Ivara's zipline allows you to use your ability when you're on them, and Empowered Quiver boost your critical damage. It not only allows your Mesa to get THE perfect positioning in your defense mission but it would also gives you way better DPS overall.

You can use Pillage on Harrow so you always stays at max shields and can buff your team extremely easily. While I'm at it, Pillage is also extremely good for squishy frames too, and gives a percentage of the enemy shield/armor which of course scales with enemy level.

Talking about Harrow, Condemn is quite a decent ability. It gives very easy headshots, CC, and shields while being easily spammable. Pretty good.

Ash's seeking shuriken is also extremely strong. Heck, Banshee herself can give Silence which is an extremely good CC ability with gigantic range and decent duration.

There's a LOT of possibilities honestly. I really wants to experiment on my frames and I can't wait for the update. Heck even if all the abilities had half their original strenght they would still be good depending on the combination you choose.

null star doesn't have an aument.. 

and there r going to be alot of mr8 players asking for frames to be returned because they messed up and got a power they didnt want

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

You had better god damn hope that the necromechs are fun because they're the only exciting thing left in this update if these nerfs stick. if you want to lower the mastery rank put it at 12, it's slightly higher than average but not so low that you can reach it in a couple weeks of relatively normal gameplay. change switch teleport with invis, there is literally no other good ability from loki, any other ability from loki that you choose will not get used. if you want all of the abilities to be equally used then GIVE US THE GOOD ONES. nobody wants to put god damn switch teleport on anything. 

  • Like 6
Link to post
Share on other sites

Well all these decision are disappointing the nerf and the change in MR.

It's supposed to be for experience player, but in the end not really.
You'll be able to replace undesirable abilities with desirable, but not really.

As to breaking the game what are we talking about here? what is going to break exactly?
If it goes that way, you better start changing the abilities and stick with the original plan everybody was thinking about: just makes only unwanted abilities as subsumed.
That way people talking about "breaking" the game can start complaining that the subsumed abilities are not interesting.
 

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites

So, with all these new special rules added I have to wonder if I will be able to see the stats of an ability (modded and unmodded) before I put them on a different Warframe, ideally for each different config. Before I could just slap some mods on the original Warframe - lets say Nidus - to check how much range Larva would have on another frame's build. This isn't possible anymore because Nidus Larva and subsumed Larva have a different base range now.

Regarding the nerfs themselves I mostly didn't even care about the abilities but the way you handle this is actually terrible - we get to the reasons. Depending on the actual numbers you might make them useless though or not affect them at all which would make it an alibi nerf that serves no purpose other than trying to please everyone. You might replace them with a different ability or buff or change the clearly trash ones to be able to compete as well which probably should have been the approach here instead of more extra rules aka nerfs to some of the abilities people voiced their interest in and it is also what you promised at TennoCon: to buff the bad abilities to be at least in the same realm with the good choices. Like, is the Well of Life (and Zephyr's ability which is still bad) buff all we can expect in the forseeable future? What is this Dispensary change anyways? All it does is making it inconvenient - it's still better than the obvious bad ones unless you make it useless. Seems a bit overzealous overall - like a lot of decisions that were made since the rushed out Railjack release, I'm not listing them since you're aware of them due to them blowing up in your face each time - but I see why you'd rather do it now than after players put them on other frames. I think the approach is just utterly disappointing buttcheeks though. We'll see.

Regarding the MR requirement decrease I recommend re-watching your own TennoCon presentation. Pretty sure something along the lines "this is not a system for new players" was said. Even your own post says "for experienced players (MR 8)". Eh, what? You are trying to dance at two parties at the same time here. Make up your mind. Will the resource requirements get reduced too for those players? Otherwise why lower the MR requirement if these players don't even have the resources nor the frames to sacrifice to use the system? MR 15 wasn't that high to begin with but ensured players with access to the system would be more likely to have at least some clue. The Kuva Lich system and Eidolons and the confusion and issues they seem to cause for some newer players who stumble into them is another good example why some things might benefit from getting access to a bit later. Not to mention it adds progression and incentives to do so in order to unlock new exciting things.

Just in comparison: Rivens can (randomly) require an on par or only higher MR requirement to be usable. The Auto-fill button for Ayatans requires MR 10 ffs. Is there any sense of logical progression and consistency in the way things get unlocked left in this game? What is even going on?

Lastly, looking back to the TennoCon reveal and looking at the list now, you shot yourself in the own foot with this arbitrarily self-imposed rule of not allowing 4th abilities (maybe even signatures) to be on the list. You locked yourself out of a pool of (technically) 43 potential abilities you could have to chose from to even it out better. Sure something like Hysteria was unlikely to happen anyways but Oberon's 4 or Mirage's 4 would have been a valid option for this list for example.

I was really looking forward to this system, getting it at the same time as PC and the buffs to the underwhelming abilities you talked about. Now I'm like:"Nah, let PC players beta test it before it hits consoles as per usual. I don't even want it with this design philosophy you displayed here - and honestly for the past year or two - behind it.".

Edited by (PS4)Deeceem
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
il y a 2 minutes, (PS4)Spider_Enigma a dit :

null star doesn't have an aument.. 

and there r going to be alot of mr8 players asking for frames to be returned because they messed up and got a power they didnt want

Yes it does.

It's called Neutron Star. It's on the first page of the thread and also on the wiki. It allows you to detonate all your orbs and recast it.

Can't access to the game right now to shows you tho.

Edited by Isokaze_BestKaze
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Isokaze_BestKaze said:

Yes it does.

It's called Neutron Star. It's on the first page of the thread and also on the wiki. It allows you to detonate all your orbs and recast it.

i tend to not use augments except in edge cases like nyx and the augment for novas ault was better, so that probably y i forgot... so basically iron shrapnel?

 

Edited by (PS4)Spider_Enigma
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, RyanCooper101 said:

That's a player choice, if you only ever use 3 warframes.. that's not the game's fault xD. You are supposed to experiment, build more tools, many warframes do better in scenarios where other warframes struggle. Same for your friend, if you don't build new items, you won't go up.

There's plenty of good gear to get, if you just build the good stuff skipping "bad items", you'll still be around MR 19-21
(sentinels, pets, warframes, kdrives, amps, arch gun, arch melee, primaries, secondaries, melee, sentinel weapons)

I know I know. Just a bad habit I have with the game. Happened originally with excal and then with Titania. Only ever change the frame if I'm doing some framing in which case I'll take nekros. Doesn't help that most of my frames are primes and I don't want to sell them to open up some slots. At least I get some MR from intrinsics.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay

When everyone hated lich sistem, i was silent.

When everyone was disapointed in Empyrean, i was silent.

When Scarlet spear was so buggy and grindy even i (6+ year player) sead "hell no"
I still left these opinyon to my self.

But today i wake up see the changes and know these time, i wont be silent event if it changes nothing.

When i see MR 15 in recquerment my thots was "Why so low?" 
I let it pass becose now i know stasisticly most of players dont hit this rang.
And now your "exeperienced players sistem" allow to MR 8.
You do realaise that MR 8 dont know anything about the game or ability? Experinced players huh? It was just another lie for camera just like PoE was, just like Empyrean launching.

And now nerf that aplay to subsumed but not to original ability, that just priceless.

If don't ready for this you need to choose another one. Chrysalis system need to bee stable. Atohreswise how i can create bild relying on in? Espesialy now whent many of warframe requier a umbra forma for true min\max and we still dont haw a option to obtainet besides nigth wawe. How coud i create a build if i know that tomorrow he may be nerfed? Because this what you did you deside act like bold one and give us cople ability that wont be useless and when you realise you cant handl it in. You as usual nerf what was good. That only means one thing, when players find a good senergy, you nerfed and it means that Chrysalis sistem exist only for jokes built.

Just like every anonsment is big joke on us, community

Edited by Onna_Kishi
  • Like 10
Link to post
Share on other sites
à l’instant, (PS4)Spider_Enigma a dit :

i tend to not use augments... so basically iron shrapnel?

Yeah. It's not as good as Nova's 4th ability augment but it's still pretty decent.

I'd say it's a better ability on frame with very low ability range and high duration so you don't need to recast it every three seconds, but if you just use it every time your particles number is lower than 9, you can constantly get between 45% and 90% damage reduction.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem I have with this change is that they didnt went far enough with buffing the useless abilities in the system. Sure those 6 abilities are great but nerfing them wont help stuff like desiccation, ice wave or decoy.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Isokaze_BestKaze said:

Yeah. It's not as good as Nova's 4th ability augment but it's still pretty decent.

I'd say it's a better ability on frame with very low ability range and high duration so you don't need to recast it every three seconds, but if you just use it every time your particles number is lower than 9, you can constantly get between 45% and 90% damage reduction.

seeing as u wont have the ult, i guess its fine but i find iron skin and nullstars should be recastable without an augment but, then again look at hydroid lmao

Link to post
Share on other sites

Half of those abilities shouldn't even be available to all warframes. Roar > Charge and Eclipse > Sleight of Hand is a no-brainer...

Lowering effectiveness of the other skills is a ok~ish solution but something had to be done regardless.

Powercreep to that degree is completely unnecessary. Warframe Revised made the game even easier than it already was for absolutely no reason, and no amount of Steel Path will ever be able to fix it...

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

>It was apparent in player feedback and play testing that these Infused Warframe Abilities had the potential to be the overwhelming choice.

"Thanks"

Leaving MR requirement would solve the "overwhelming choice" problem by making this system accessible to experienced players, but no, it's too good, we want to deny any amount of fun players might have. Tennocon 2020 left people disappointed anyway, and now you made them angry. Good job!

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, Isokaze_BestKaze said:

lmao.

This thread is such a dumpster fire.

What does it changes for YOU Veteran player that MR8 is the new requirement ? What does it takes away ? Why would you suddenly NOT enjoy the update because of it ? Because a somewhat beginner who's just fresh on unlocking the star chart can get access to it ? Most of these players wouldn't even have access to spare frame anyway. 

You want to feel special ?

You know how you could "feel special" actually ? By not being boring and putting a generic damage buff on your warframe.

You could use Null Star w/ augment on Banshee (or any squishy frame really) so she can have a bit of survivability besides Silence. Or Garuda's Blood Altar. Or Defy, even if capped, if Defy gives just 500 armor instead of 1500, it's still very good for frames like Hydroid who lacks tankiness.

You could use Empowered Quiver on Mesa and spam 4 on top of it. Since Ivara's zipline allows you to use your ability when you're on them, and Empowered Quiver boost your critical damage. It not only allows your Mesa to get THE perfect positioning in your defense mission but it would also gives you way better DPS overall.

You can use Pillage on Harrow so you always stays at max shields and can buff your team extremely easily. While I'm at it, Pillage is also extremely good for squishy frames too, and gives a percentage of the enemy shield/armor which of course scales with enemy level.

Talking about Harrow, Condemn is quite a decent ability. It gives very easy headshots, CC, and shields while being easily spammable. Pretty good.

Ash's seeking shuriken is also extremely strong. Heck, Banshee herself can give Silence which is an extremely good CC ability with gigantic range and decent duration.

There's a LOT of possibilities honestly. I really wants to experiment on my frames and I can't wait for the update. Heck even if all the abilities had half their original strenght they would still be good depending on the combination you choose.



in case you dont uynderstand, MR 15 is not hard to get... but it does take time, its not a long time, but its at least enough to let players get used to it. mr8 is too low. this is not about "feeling special", its about the new player experience, on a game that is already bashed to oblivion for being too complex to new players.

you cant have it both ways, and MR8 is just too early, even if, the diference doesnt look that big. there are weapons that require more mr than 15. this system will force players into an even bigger grind earlier on than needed.

this low MR will hurt new players, not help them. we know this because this isnt the first time DE did this.

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, (PS4)GodOfGamesMK said:

In B4 MR 8 players flood the ticket system with "accidental" frame sacrifices 

that was my first thought as they have one with forma and one without, and sack the wrong one, to only see the power is useless on top of it lol

Edited by (PS4)Spider_Enigma
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...