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Not to keep replying to this thread but I am utterly dumbfounded. Where are all of the undesirable abilities getting buffed? The update is 5 days out, can't you wait literally 2 weeks so that the community has time to actually get their hands on this system and mess with it? These changes are literally so poorly thought out that players who never post on the forums came out in droves to tell you you're all idiots! 

Aren't you embarrassed that you can offend your entire playerbase with a single forum post edit? Can you feel how much hatred is being directed towards you for these changes? How dare you lead us on only to pull the rug out from under us less than a week before heart of deimos hits. If you gutted roar down to a maximum of 10% more damage, people would still choose it over #*!%ing switch teleport. All you did is remove desirability from the system, these changes mean absolutely nothing for the worse abilities, and are absolutely debilitating for those being hit with the nerf hammer. 

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13 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

EDIT: We have also changed the Mastery Rank Prerequisite of the Helminth Segment to 8 (was 15).

Why tho? Can we get an explanation on this? Given that this is meant for 'experienced' players, it seems wired to reduces it to 8, given that its the Stealth test, and if you can't get past that, you can't call ur self experienced. Like, its not that hard a test. You only need to do them in the right order and your good.

Edit: Also, why is this all the way on page 50+, and not in the main post? Same goes for the other updates. They really should be edits at the top of the post or a new post all togeath

Edited by TheJagji
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23 minutes ago, (PS4)corpusbonds said:

I don’t actually care about what mastery you need to be and all to use good ol Helmy, but I’m worried actual newer players (not talking about tenno who are deep into the game and don’t care about mastery) won’t actually understand what’s going on.

 Will you guys be making a good warning system about it? Maybe something like “Subsuming the [Warframe] selected will destroy it COMPLETELY and you will NOT be able to use this warframe again. It will disappear from your arsenal completely along with any Formas and reactor put into it. Are you sure you wish to proceed?” Then have them type out SUBSUME or something for a failsafe.

I know some people don’t read, but if anyone complains at least you can say you had a good warning set up.

To add to this- maybe warn the player the warframe they’re about to subsume has a forma/reactor?

”The warframe you are about to subsume has a reactor installed and x forma(s). Do you wish to proceed?”

Literally all the failsafes so people can’t complain. (They will but you know what I mean).

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il y a 16 minutes, S0b3rt00th a dit :

Half of those abilities shouldn't even be available to all warframes. Roar > Charge and Eclipse > Sleight of Hand is a no-brainer...

Lowering effectiveness of the other skills is a ok~ish solution but something had to be done regardless.

Powercreep to that degree is completely unnecessary. Warframe Revised made the game even easier than it already was for absolutely no reason, and no amount of Steel Path will ever be able to fix it...

Sleight of Hand is completely busted with high range and the augment lmao. You easily out-DPS even a Saryn since you don't even need LOS to get it to snowball. I tried it more than once in 2h+ Kuva survival and your team is basically not playing while you just spam 2 every 10 seconds or so.

Edited by Isokaze_BestKaze
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You lied to us DE and you're breaking players heart that actually waited for this system... You said it's for experienced players, and yet you lowered the MR requirement to 8?! Since when is an MR8 player experienced?

You said that abilities are going to get changes for the helminth system so more viable choice will be there. And guess what, you nerfed the powerful ones instead... 

For the first time in Warframe with the Heart of Deimos I thought you are ok the right path... but now I see you are just as blind as you were with railjack... or the other open worlds... 

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il y a 7 minutes, Keyhound a dit :



in case you dont uynderstand, MR 15 is not hard to get... but it does take time, its not a long time, but its at least enough to let players get used to it. mr8 is too low. this is not about "feeling special", its about the new player experience, on a game that is already bashed to oblivion for being too complex to new players.

you cant have it both ways, and MR8 is just too early, even if, the diference doesnt look that big. there are weapons that require more mr than 15. this system will force players into an even bigger grind earlier on than needed.

this low MR will hurt new players, not  help them. we know this because this isnt the first time DE did this.

I'm absolutely not convinced by this.

By MR8, unless you get Hydron-carried, you should have unlocked a lot of good weapons and frame and finished unlocking the starchart. You should have a good grasp of the game mechanics too. 

 

I understand that MR15 would be a good requirement to push players into actually trying to unlock their MR. But people are completely over-reacting. Since when lowering the requirement is negative for veteran players ? Again, WHAT DO THEY LOSE ?

Getting higher MR is still useful anyway. It makes the grind of new weapons and frame less annoying because it gives initial mod space. It also unlock access to Rivens, some liches weapons (and people ACTUALLY COMPLAINED that Liches weapons MR requirement was too high lmao), and daily standing cap.

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Why lower the MR requirement? Because of a single forum thread?

Putting this system early on is just asking for a horde of people crying “excessive grind” because the resource requirements, both in terms of frames and actual resources, are aimed at more experienced players as of the original design. It is also another step in making the pursuit of high MR a worthless endeavour, since there are no game systems tied to it. having the helminth at rank 15 was a half decent way to give an aspirational goal and an acceptable time sink to those who reach 15, having basically nothing more to look forward after that.

Edited by (XB1)ShonFr0st
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MR 8 is too low, and im saying this while having an irl friend stuck at the end of mr7... hes got 5 warframes... DE. come on guys. If you player average is MR 8 then give them a reason to increase it. MR 10 Minimum. 12 would be better. Im not even gonna touch the nerfs... this is just... bad.

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I've seen many peeps saying that these abilities will be nerfed (which they will). However i am wondering, will they be nerfed on main Warframes only or nerfed only when transfered ?

Edited by m3stuart
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33 minutes ago, (XB1)MetalxPhoenix said:

No ultimates. I still don't understand why they didn't go with Charge. It fits right in with the system and they wouldn't be beating their heads against the wall trying to find a value/balance on an impossible to balance ability.

Calling stomp an 'ultimate' is rather silly. If anything Roar would fit that bill more for Rhino.

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my main gripe is the MR requirement change. I have no problem with newer players, but I feel that reducing the requirement so drastically causes a bunch of problems:

firstly, most players at MR8 are still unaware of how a lot of the game works, and the chance of them accidentally subsuming a warframe is high. it's also more costly for them if they lose a frame as they will have less to choose from and may find it harder to get that frame again than a veteran player would.

second, the fact that DE changed it AFTER advertising it as "for veterans" is what's leaving a sour taste in people's mouths. at this point, whenever DE advertise something as "for veterans" I'm going to roll my eyes and respond sarcastically, because time and time again, it gets reworked to become new-player friendly.

third, because they keep making everything newbie-friendly, they aren't spacing out content effectively: if they locked certain modes behind MR ranks, newer players would have something to work towards and wouldn't leave out of boredom or burn themselves out as much. right now newer players get totally overwhelmed with how much there is to do so they'll try to do it all at once, realize how much time and effort it takes, and then burn out as a result. there wouldn't be "content droughts" if they kept encouraging players to up their MR to access new, harder game modes; but at this point I think it's far too late to implement such a system now.

as for the abilities themselves, even a nerfed version of a good ability is better than a trash ability. there will still be plenty of people putting on Roar simply because it's better than X and/or because they can't think of anything better to use instead.

 

Edited by (PS4)robotwars7
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I fully understand it. Some frames would benefit enormously without those nerfs. my only concern is i hope to build all in one inaros, not to build him extra durable, but to add some utility or useful skills, cause i like to play with one frame an not switch all the time

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They chose the best option? The best option would've been to release the system with no nerfs or buffs and see which frames they need to rework/change/tweak after gathering data about what's being used and on what...

They just chose the easiest approach that dissapointed many of us and guess what... DE doesn't seem to care 😞

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il y a 2 minutes, Isokaze_BestKaze a dit :

I'm absolutely not convinced by this.

By MR8, unless you get Hydron-carried, you should have unlocked a lot of good weapons and frame and finished unlocking the starchart. You should have a good grasp of the game mechanics too. 

 

I understand that MR15 would be a good requirement to push players into actually trying to unlock their MR. But people are completely over-reacting. Since when lowering the requirement is negative for veteran players ? Again, WHAT DO THEY LOSE ?

Getting higher MR is still useful anyway. It makes the grind of new weapons and frame less annoying because it gives initial mod space. It also unlock access to Rivens, some liches weapons (and people ACTUALLY COMPLAINED that Liches weapons MR requirement was too high lmao), and daily standing cap.

Thing is, one more time, DE proved us right.. they said it was for veterans player but its not, they said they won't change things, but they do, anyway, like always, DE do crap. it could be available at Mr 1 i would not give a f***, but i'm tired of seing them doing sh*t like that..
They always choose the easy way, nerfing the few good ones instead of buffing or reworking whats wrong, they always nerf things that are supposedly "to hard" so that newb/new players can easily do it...

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2 minutes ago, m3stuart said:

I've seen many peeps saying that these abilities will be nerfed (which they will). However i am wondering, will they be nerfed on main Warframes only or nerfed only when transfered ?

Only transferred of course, nerfing the og for the Helminth system would create such outrage that DE would go out of business. 

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2 hours ago, Samhel said:

They chose the best option? The best option would've been to release the system with no nerfs or buffs and see which frames they need to rework/change/tweak after gathering data about what's being used and on what...

They just chose the easiest approach that dissapointed many of us and guess what... DE doesn't seem to care 😞

Yes i whose thinking the same thing and ita a shame if others dont see in that way. Because after all what is the point changing power if they did this from the beginning... 

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On 2020-08-12 at 1:27 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

The launch of Heart of Deimos grows near, and we have some Helminth updates since we last posted! Below are 2 parts of updated/clarifying information that touches both Infused Warframe Abilities and the Helminth Segment acquisition.  

PART 1 - Changes to select Infused Warframe Abilities

Please keep in mind we’re still testing/playing around with the values for each, hence why the values are not present below:

The following only apply to Infused Warframe Abilities:

Rhino - Roar
Diminished Damage increase

Mirage - Eclipse
Diminished Damage increase and cap Damage Reduction 

Valkyr - Warcry
Attack speed increase reduced

Protea - Dispenser
Duration reduced

Nidus - Larva
Radius reduced

Wukong - Defy
Armor capped

Why?  Why do this?  Maybe I hallucinated it but I thought I remembered hearing during the TennoCon reveal that abilities weren't going to be nerfed or changed based around their effects in the helminth system.  Am I just wrong?  Did I mis-hear that?  Because I feel like this is EXACTLY what we were promised wouldn't be happening. 

The mastery rank changes feel like a bad idea because if you want you can pretty easily hit even rank 8 within a couple weeks of playing and I don't know if that's gonna be enough time for new players to really grasp the seriousness of subsuming a frame or to understand how these abilities will interact.

This honestly feels like a slap in the face to all of us who were excited about the new system.  It's like being promised a Double Chocolate Fudge Lava Cake and then being given a Vanilla Cupcake with Chocolate Icing.  It's still nice to get something but it's frustrating to get what feels like so much LESS that what was promised.  There were a thousand better ways to do this.   The EASIEST would have just been to not tell us what the abilities that could be subsumed were until the balancing was solved.  This though? This just feels cruel, you give us a week or more to imagine up all the cool stuff we could do with these abilities and what frames we might put what on and then yank the rug out from under us? Why?

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Just now, Isokaze_BestKaze said:

I'm absolutely not convinced by this.

By MR8, unless you get Hydron-carried, you should have unlocked a lot of good weapons and frame and finished unlocking the starchart. You should have a good grasp of the game mechanics too. 

 

I understand that MR15 would be a good requirement to push players into actually trying to unlock their MR. But people are completely over-reacting. Since when lowering the requirement is negative for veteran players ? Again, WHAT DO THEY LOSE ?

Getting higher MR is still useful anyway. It makes the grind of new weapons and frame less annoying because it gives initial mod space. It also unlock access to Rivens, some liches weapons (and people ACTUALLY COMPLAINED that Liches weapons MR requirement was too high lmao), and daily standing cap.

The problem is that the increase MR requirement has two "teams" if you will.

Team New Player Exp: Consists of people who are worried that MR 8 is a bit low for people who are not entirely experienced with all of the games systems. I have first hand experience with a friend who is currently MR 10, and I still find myself explaining many details and systems of the game to him, such as Eidolons, Syndicates, Orb Mothers, etc. He achieved this rank by primarily building weapons and completing the Star Chart rather than Warframes. The Helminth System requires a good amount of experience with Warframes, having built them, used them, tested them, etc. In order to fully realize what you don't like and do like about their abilities to change. MR 15 is just that little bit more of experience from crafting and using Warframes (hopefully) that will allow them to become experienced in this.

then there is

Team I'm MR29 and only I should be able to use this: This is what you are questioning, rightfully so, having a MR requirement that high is simply ridiculous as you need to have vaulted warframes and weapons, events weapons and have max standing pretty much everywhere in order to reach this rank.

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I think people are overreacting, but DE have done two things that have caught people by surprise. The first was to pick certain abilities that are obvious stand outs from the other abilities on the list. The second was to say they would buff weak abilities, followed by only two buffs and then six nerfs (albeit only to the donated abilities, not to the original frames). At this point there are more nerfs than buffs. There hasn't just been discussion and feedback on no-brainer strong abilities, but also weak abilities that players predict will never be picked.

Having said that, we don't know how much they will be adjusted and how (if at all) the calculus for subsuming them will be affected, and these are not nerfs to anything people have now, they are nerfs to potential builds that people are imagining. I kind of wonder what exactly people are imagining 😛. Are people really looking forward that much to sticking Roar on everything?

Edited by schilds
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Giving us a list of the abilities that we will be able to subsume, knowing that we're gonna farm the good frames ASAP, as we were all hyped with this system. Then nerfing the favorite abilities of everyone.

You always have to do this. No one is ever happy with you. Why couldn't you just think about the list before killing all our hype like that? Do you even care about the players? Don't you realize that we just want to have dumb fun with the new system and create amazing synergies? Why do you try to kill everyone's fun/balance the very system that looked pretty decent and attracted many players like that? It's like shooting yourself in the foot. You're already doing harm and this hasn't even begun yet.

I can't wait to use Loki's decoy or Frost's Ice wave while wearing my nerfed Xoris instead of using that efficient ability that would upgrade by gameplay but is for suuuure terrible enough for the game to nerf it before it even comes out. Also I've seen right now that the helminth system will also be blocked behind rank 3 of a syndicate.

EDIT: Seems like someone is editing my message because I pointed out that you should try to play your game.

Edited by krazox
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