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1 minute ago, DangerouslyDisturbed said:

Why?  Why do this?  Maybe I hallucinated it but I thought I remembered hearing during the TennoCon reveal that abilities weren't going to be nerfed or changed based around their effects in the helminth system.  Am I just wrong?  Did I mis-hear that?  Because I feel like this is EXACTLY what we were promised wouldn't be happening. 

The mastery rank changes feel like a bad idea because if you want you can pretty easily hit even rank 8 within a couple weeks of playing and I don't know if that's gonna be enough time for new players to really grasp the seriousness of subsuming a frame or to understand how these abilities will interact.

This honestly feels like a slap in the face to all of us who were excited about the new system.  It's like being promised a Double Chocolate Fudge Lava Cake and then being given a Vanilla Cupcake with Chocolate Icing.  It's still nice to get something but it's frustrating to get what feels like so much LESS that what was promised.  There were a thousand better ways to do this.   The EASIEST would have just been to not tell us what the abilities that could be subsumed were until the balancing was solved.  This though? This just feels cruel, you give us a week or more to imagine up all the cool stuff we could do with these abilities and what frames we might put what on and then yank the rug out from under us? Why?

the powers on the original frames wouldnt be tuched

and this was supposed to buff the power not nerf them, meaning that placing a power back onto the frame that it came from would have also been an option, but now it isnt

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Bruh they seriously giving MR8s acess to endgame stuff

This keeps happening this powercreep. MR8s getting access to the fulmin 

MR5s getting acess to kuva weapons 

Mr2s getting access to scarlet spear and getting max rank arcane energizes 

I don't mind the nerfs we all saw it coming 

Maybe they should have chosen less strong abilities to subsume so they didn't have to deal with this exact scenario in the first place. I actually wanted valkyrs ripclaw and rhino's charge I do enough damage already I don't need buffs to help prove that I like utility abilties. Im still excited cus my favorite ability won't be touched but I won't mention it here in fear of nerfs but this is not looking good for this update.

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2 hours ago, Samhel said:

They chose the best option? The best option would've been to release the system with no nerfs or buffs and see which frames they need to rework/change/tweak after gathering data about what's being used and on what...

They just chose the easiest approach that dissapointed many of us and guess what... DE doesn't seem to care 😞

But then youd have ppl complaining that de nerfed their setups they put time and effort to while using the system. We dont have the numbers yet so why should we be getting the torches out now before anything is finalized other than the list of abilities 

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il y a 2 minutes, Kald-Wing a dit :

Team I'm MR29 and only I should be able to use this

Most high MR people I know are nice guys who help other people.

The other high MR people I know are solo players who absolutely don't care about MR requirement and such.

Everyone knows MR8 is too low, the help chat will become a war zone after the launch.

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6 minutes ago, Kald-Wing said:


Team New Player Exp: Consists of people who are worried that MR 8 is a bit low for people who are not entirely experienced with all of the games systems. I have first hand experience with a friend who is currently MR 10, and I still find myself explaining many details and systems of the game to him, such as Eidolons, Syndicates, Orb Mothers, etc. He achieved this rank by primarily building weapons and completing the Star Chart rather than Warframes. The Helminth System requires a good amount of experience with Warframes, having built them, used them, tested them, etc. In order to fully realize what you don't like and do like about their abilities to change. MR 15 is just that little bit more of experience from crafting and using Warframes (hopefully) that will allow them to become experienced in this.

That’s what I’m worried about. Even with warnings some people may subsume their frame not realizing that it’s gone for good. I just hope DE installs something or a small tutorial so at least they have an idea of what they’re getting into.

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45 minutes ago, (XB1)MetalxPhoenix said:

No ultimates. I still don't understand why they didn't go with Charge. It fits right in with the system and they wouldn't be beating their heads against the wall trying to find a value/balance on an impossible to balance ability.

But "no ultimates" is a completely arbitrary restriction put in place by DE. They didn't have to do this. There's quite a few frames where the 4th isn't all that great or the best part of their kit. So why even have that restriction in the first place?

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"We consider this a customization system for very experienced Warframe players (Mastery Rank 15 8 Prerequisite). We do not intend to let newer players unlock this system."

 

I'm so glad DE have finally made some content exclusivley for only those very experienced players who have played for over a week. Impressive.

What kind of joke is this meant to be, keep the MR requirement at 15.

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10 minutes ago, Isokaze_BestKaze said:

I'm absolutely not convinced by this.

By MR8, unless you get Hydron-carried, you should have unlocked a lot of good weapons and frame and finished unlocking the starchart. You should have a good grasp of the game mechanics too. 

 

I understand that MR15 would be a good requirement to push players into actually trying to unlock their MR. But people are completely over-reacting. Since when lowering the requirement is negative for veteran players ? Again, WHAT DO THEY LOSE ?

Getting higher MR is still useful anyway. It makes the grind of new weapons and frame less annoying because it gives initial mod space. It also unlock access to Rivens, some liches weapons (and people ACTUALLY COMPLAINED that Liches weapons MR requirement was too high lmao), and daily standing cap.

i already said this, but i will repeat, mr 15 isnt high enough to be a problem for most players, it will, however, serve as a barrier of entry to new players, which is the point of the MR system to begin with. most of the earlier MRs take a day or so to unlock, its not uncommon to have a mr8 in less than a month of play(some even in less than 3 weeks), which might sound like alot, but for games like warframe, it REALLY ISNT.

mr 8 might not even be enough to grasp the mod system! remember, most of the starchart can be completed without using a forma... i know this because my fist forma was used because i got my first riven on the war within a few years ago.

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I'll wait to see what the final nerfed values are before judging too harshly. I can't imagine DE nerfing the numbers to such a degree that it completely invalidates using the subsumption system at all. I have been wrong before, though... Still, this seemingly knee-jerk reaction to some calls for nerfs is disappointing at best.

The MR requirement change seems like an odd choice to me. I'm curious to know the reasoning for choosing MR 8 specifically over MR 15(or any other number in-between).

Edited by Claric
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11 minutes ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

second, the fact that DE changed it AFTER advertising it as "for veterans" is what's leaving a sour taste in people's mouths. at this point, whenever DE advertise something as "for veterans" I'm going to roll my eyes and respond sarcastically, because time and time again, it gets reworked to become new-player friendly.

This. So much this. If you announce something at Tennocon and then fold like a cheap suit to once more take it up the rear from the casual crowd screaming "nerf because I pay money in this game", expect players to be more than a little brassed off. In short they deserve the criticism and should learn how to take it without flip flopping like a wet noodle.

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14 minutes ago, (XB1)ShonFr0st said:

Why lower the MR requirement? Because of a single forum thread?

Putting this system early on is just asking for a horde of people crying “excessive grind” because the resource requirements, both in terms of frames and actual resources, are aimed at more experienced players as of the original design. It is also another step in making the pursuit of high MR a worthless endeavour, since there are no game systems tied to it. having the helminth at rank 15 was a half decent way to give an aspirational goal and an acceptable time sink to those who reach 15, having basically nothing more to look forward after that.

I agree, this is a big mistake. MR has so few incentive to raise up, it could be used to give players a sense of progression by locking out more powerful weapons and features. This isn't unique and tons of other games do this. Additionally, this gating will make sure players who are new will have spare resources they can spend on the Helminth including frames they don't want anymore. MR8 is going to give them far less of a buffer in both regards to spend on this and will risk them accidentally feeding something to the Helminth they didn't want to happen and risk not being able to build a replacement.

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On the MR requirement. This is obviously going to be a huge resource sink, and most MR 8 people don't need a resource sink. That said, there are people who are vets who have never bothered much with MR and are peeved at having to grind to MR 15 :-P.

Edited by schilds
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vor 11 Minuten schrieb (NSW)Lorkhan:

They should just have let the powers as they where, ship the whole update to cert yesterday, givre us the update on the 25. LEAVE US PLAY WITH IT FOR 2 WEEK and then see what needed to be nerfed or not!

It's a pity that the community isn't very fond of nerfing things they get accustomed, too. Well, there's outrage anyway. Better to nerf things proactively (and buff them later if needed) than the other way round.

 

vor 10 Minuten schrieb (PS4)Spider_Enigma:

the thing is, we didnt even want roar.... we wanted charge and ripline

I don't get my head around it either. There was no way to make both abilities attractive in time, I guess. So the easy way out was to be generous and give out roar and warcry.

Edited by Sahansral
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5 minutes ago, AANGDETO said:

Most high MR people I know are nice guys who help other people.

The other high MR people I know are solo players who absolutely don't care about MR requirement and such.

Everyone knows MR8 is too low, the help chat will become a war zone after the launch.

I'm mr22 and generally I'm that player who's indifferent to MR.

But I have to question the MR15 requirement aswell. If it's supposed to be a system for experienced players and especially given what it consists off would it not be unreasonable for it to be the first item with a new higher Mr in awhile? Say at like 18?

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13 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

To offer further clarification on why we changed the Mastery Rank Prerequisite to MR 8:

There's many factors that come into play in order to engage with the Helminth system, such as:

  • Having an ongoing supply of Resources that you don't need elsewhere to feed your Helminth
  • Working your way up the Helminth rankings to unlock more features
  • Having Warframes your ready/willing to Subsume

Looking at the above, we can see that higher rank players will be more equipped to offer these things to Helminth out the gate, where a MR 8 player will start with more accessible/cheaper Helminth Abilities first before diving deeper. Thus allowing MR 8 players to participate in Helminth and grow as they go.

I liked the MR 15 requirement and here is why:

The reason I liked MR 15 a lot was because it gave newer players a goal to work towards. They game most often only pushes you to MR 12/14 to unlock all weapons, so this was just another step. And in this case in particular you could probably see the requirement just in the Syndicate menu and realize "Oh I might need some more MR to see what this is" instead of relying on Clan, Syndicate or Prime Weapon MR requirements which are kind of hidden if you dont actively look for them.
Also it was a "New player protection". Think about how many times you did an oopsie as a new player. I sold not max level weapons and regretting it later. I invested ressources into Clan Research on unnecessary items or building too many rooms and shortly after needing these ressources again for my foundry. I sold Warframes in order to make pace for new Warframes not fully realizing what the purpose of the Warframe was. (e.g. Selling Limbo because he feels weird, picking up Saryn instead and then a few misssions later needing a defensive frame to protect the target.)

Also I dont like the decision to reduce the MR requirement on the overall progression scale.
You need MR 10 for auto-slotting Ayatan Sculpture, but you get access to a possibly game-changing system already at MR 8? That doesnt make any sense.
Many of the best weapons in the game are around MR 12 to MR 15, but a system where you can alter the abilities of a Warframe and choose the best of the best is only MR 8?

Thanks for reading! ♥

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not hyped abt this system anymore. just another day, another thing to grind. but srslly, lower strenght of ability is ok, even range and duration. lame. if we are gonna get weak abilities from other frames why not just take all the ability from a frame?

Edited by warframedhari
typo
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2 hours ago, (PS4)NeunDrachen said:

-snip-

Do you remember little ducks exclusive shop that they didn't touch in like a year now? Or the one that Paladino has? Do you remember seeing a full on Chroma rework in the last 2 years that they promised us? They also nerfed him and then left that warframe rot where he is. Did you experience any changes to the emptiness of the 2 open worlds the game already had? They are still the same for years now. Did you see any kind of change to the progression system that is now so broken DE can't even properly release something to be an anchor-point for it? 

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1 minute ago, Sahansral said:

It's a pity that the community isn't very fond of nerfing things they get accustomed, too. Well, there's outrage anyway. Better to nerf things proactively (and buff then later if needed) than the other way round.

 

I don't get my head around it either. There was no way to make both abilities attractive in time, I guess. So the easy way out was to be generous and give out rar and warcry.


the problem isnt that the community isnt fond of nerfing, its that MANY abilities DEMAND a rework or at least a buff to be usable. i made this post a while back, but,

WHY WOULD ANYONE USE DECOY? specially when molt does the same, buffs speed, removes neg status, and has an aug that heals?
why would anyone use desiccation, when radial blind does the job better? getting 2 health per second?
nobody uses terrify on nekros, its aug COULD be good, but its so limited, its not worth the slot.
nobody likes tempest barrage, i could even go as far as to say, he is full of nice ideas so badly done, it must have been on purpose!
and the list continues...

the problem is not nerf, its that even with the nerfs, the other abilities continue to be e a terrible choice.

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people be complaining about the MR requirement when its going to take 71,000 standing and the daily standing cap for a mr 8 is 9,000. so it would take 8 days of maxing out the standing with them to get to the system, which we dont even know if it requires the planets resourses to craft the system, rank 8 is fine for a number because they will just get board of another syndicate grind like fortuna was

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6 minutes ago, (PS4)Spider_Enigma said:

the powers on the original frames wouldnt be tuched

and this was supposed to buff the power not nerf them, meaning that placing a power back onto the frame that it came from would have also been an option, but now it isnt

I get that and I understand that some of this stuff would probably be broken without nerfing.  I'm kind of disappointed in DE over that.  What I'm kinda MAD about is that this feels like maybe, just MAYBE they played us as a business move.  We know that DE's parent company has been in talks to sell and maybe this is just me being pessimistic or cynical but it feels like maybe they told us about this new system too early and pre-balancing so that players would get excited about it and generate hype about these cool OP abilities and combinations and come back to check it out or prep for it.  Warframe would show a MASSIVE boost in concurrent players and seem more valuable as a business asset for the negotiations.

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5 minutes ago, Keyhound said:

the problem is not nerf, its that even with the nerfs, the other abilities continue to be e a terrible choice.

Nekros is a very interesting example. Necros 3 cannot be used and there is a no ult restriction. So we get Necros 1 and 2. I don't even know what's worse. The problem here is that the frame itself is trash. And necros is trash. Of course, he has shadows and can farm, but that's about it. Literally 2 abilities with 0 gameplay.

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