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2 minutes ago, Keyhound said:

and? because something easier to do has lower % doesnt mean mr pointless. it just means, people arent interested in doing it.


i was just trying to point out how low mr players arnt going to dedicate themselves to get something new even if its mr 0

 

its rank 3 (4) in the new syndicate to get the helmitch and takes 8 days + credits + resources to get to the rank required for it, changing from saying low MR to vets... A vet of the game is more likely to spend the time and resources to get to the new system no matter what rank they are, if someone has MR 8 because thats the cap for prime frames and is willing to put the time and effort into getting the new system then they clearly know what the risks are with it.

if you have an issue with the MR being too low then you should be asking for it to be higher in the syndicate because then only dedicated players will have it including dedicated mr 8 players who might just be vets who dont care to rank up mr

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I can sorta see why you would nerf Damage or Speed.   But range???   You realize those abilities get balanced on their own by the mods we use.  Not every frame's kit is going to sync up with helminth infused abilities which will already make them non max.... 

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A system that was not designed for new players. Ha, ha, ha what a good joke that was. for a few days we were led to believe that mastery mattered again. It would seem that that was just a second elusive dream.

This is why Warframe can't keep its veteran players there is simply nowhere for them to go. What the point in accumulating all this power if there are no enemies or challenges in where to use them. When are you going to start rewarding your long-time and/or dedicated players?

 I understand your need for all-inclusive however there is also a thing known as progression.

What is the end game of Warframe, oh yeah wait there is none. What is that you want to Max out your builds don't bother the only way it can be used buy remaining in a survival mission for hours on end race. Such fun (satire)

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On 2020-08-12 at 1:27 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Who is this for?
We consider this a customization system for very experienced Warframe players (Mastery Rank 15 8 Prerequisite). We do not intend to let newer players unlock this system. We intentionally placed the Segment deep into progression to ensure only experienced players could access the Segment and begin their journey with Helminth.

Mr 8 at this point is still considered quite a new player for many. You can reach that MR so fast now. Even if it's locked behind the grind of the Entrati, playing in Deimos isn't MR-locked. This may not be as bad as liches, but it's still way too early.

I hope you don't double down on that decision after saying so many times that this "isn't for new players". This is quite a disappointing change since for once, we thought you were finally gearing a system more with veterans in mind. Above all else, this will be yet another system to overwhelm new players, even with the Entrati grind wall.

Here's a little suggestion that I think can be quite sensible: MR 8 to unlock Helminth abilities injection; MR 15 to Subsume Warframes. I think it's a good middle ground if you absolutely want to keep the low mr8 entry.

Edited by Casardis
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1 minute ago, (PS4)IrOrphanCrippler said:

Do you feel that players who dedicate far more effort should not have any effort made towards us?

Kinda. The problem here is that players are the customers, not the employes. That means that if you wanna play 9000 hours it's your problem and you don't need a special reward for it. BUT, of course you're gonna achieve far more than someone that has 3000 hours or 500.

What I'm trying to say is that it's up to you not wanting to level up your MR but you're gonna have to deal with not having rewards on par with who does it. That said, the progression system is not appealing at all. What I get from leveling up MR is more gear to level up and some standings cap increase. 

So I see where your point is coming from, but I don't like to endorse it on the system HOW IT IS. If we had a great progression system, yeah, then I'm 100% with you.

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2 hours ago, Aguzo said:

I don't want to get on anyone's bad side. However, some of you need to learn how to compromise

 

New MR requirement for Helminth

Summary: Changing the MR requirement from 15 to 8 shouldn't ruin anyone's mood. Exclusivity is dumb anyway, and elitism is pretty toxic. It's a game, relax and have fun.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Firstly, the game is subject to change, whenever. DE changing their minds on the MR requirement for the helminth, should not be the end of the world. Take a breather my dudes.

Why would they change it? Who knows, they more than likely discussed it. It's not as if they change their minds for no reason. Highly possible that new players who watched their livestream are mostly interested in the Heart of Deimos update. That includes the the new helminth system.

Changing the MR lock from 15 to 8 shouldn't ruin anyone's mood. Exclusivity is dumb anyway, and elitism is pretty toxic. It's a game, relax and have fun.

 

Ah yes, expecting all content in a game to be immediately accessible to someone who just starts playing is totally reasonable.  Why have meaningful and understandable progression?  If people don't have access to everything when they want it it'll hurt their feelings 😞

2 hours ago, Aguzo said:

The "nerfs" to subsumable abilities
Summary: Instead of removing some of the subsumable abilities (like others wanted), they lowered their values, so that the originals owners would still be at the top. This is called compromise.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

So DE makes a new system, to let y'all mess around and make interesting builds.

One side didn't want certain abilities in the mix, because they basically make the original frames irrelevant. I'll play whatever frame I want, because I want to, regardless if they are "S" or "F" tier. However, they were making a fairly reasonable argument. You give rhino's buff away, why use rhino? So it was decided that certain subsumed abilities would be slightly lowered.

Instead of removing some of the subsumable abilities, they lowered some values, so that the originals owners would still be at the top. This is called compromise.

 

Hardly feels like a compromise when the devs put themselves in the hole to begin with.  They could've not chosen those abilities to begin with.  They could have made the base abilities that were undesirable desirable.  This would have improved the base kit and made choosing between which abilities to remove more interesting.  They could have not hard limited to having no 4's.  I don't see how stomp or reckoning would've been game breaking.  They could have made the abilities different on other frames.  Like only getting Grendel's strike buff instead of all 3 buffs.  Or how we're only getting two things from quiver.  Nerfing these abilities is just lazy.  Not compromising.

2 hours ago, Aguzo said:

No developers, in any game, want to make their players unhappy. The update isn't here yet, so don't feel bad about losing something you never had. Everyone should keep an open mind, myself included. Not saying "don't give feedback", just accept that we aren't the only one's who play the game. In my opinion, they chose the best option by not fully removing the abilities, and making the new update more inclusive.

I mean if you want to continue to support bad decisions by DE then by all means do so.  But personally speaking I don't think you have the right to pretend you're being an open minded individual whilst hand waving valid criticism and calling people toxic/elitist just because they expected DE to actually hold true to their wording for once.

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3 minutes ago, (PS4)IrOrphanCrippler said:

Yet you see pandering to the low level players to be.....acceptable? In a game that involves low intermediate and high end players why do we mostly see content pander to the lowest level? 

With your MR and hours im shocked to see a player who has actually accomplished these things having this opinion.  Im at 9k hours and 29. Id like to see content geared towards players who give effort beyond the complacent mentality of " i don't need to lvl or get stronger or smarter cuz i have these really limited item, game isn't worth doing more anyway"

Do you feel that players who dedicate far more effort should not have any effort made towards us?

the biggest problem people miss is not that we dont get enough content toward us, but that begginers have access to too much stuff on a game that is bashed for being too complex to new players. in other words, they are making the new player experience worse by giving too many choices that are too complex on top of the game already complex mechanics.

this is one of, if not THE reason people give for abandoning the game early on. its too bloated with stuff that they have no idea what to do with.

and yes, too much of a good thing is bad. its the reason why MMOs dont do that, its not only unecessary, but actually makes the game worse for everyone.

 

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15 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Why do these Infused Warframe Abilities have these rules?
It was apparent in player feedback and play testing that these Infused Warframe Abilities had the potential to be the overwhelming choice; which is not ideal. Instead of changing the Ability outright due to those concerns, we decided to give them slight rules when Infused.

"Had the potential to be the overwhelming choice"

With this phrase in mind specifically... Why does that shock DE at all? 

Yes, Roar is going to be super popular because of it's functionality. 

Yes, Larva is going to be popular because it's a very reliable crowd control.

Yes, Dispenser is going to be popular because Energy is useful, Shocking right?

When compared to the list of Other possible options.. Why would I choose something like Pocket-Sand over Roar when it's placed on Valkyr, for example?

The list goes on, and this is surprising?  Who the hell would choose something like Wind burst, Mind control, or Fireball outside of memes? 

Nerf these abilities too much and honestly, what's the point of even using them? But numbers haven't even been shown, so honestly.. I'm just expecting the worst. 

If DE thinks that Xoris is "OvErPoWeReD" because of how the innate Combo feature works in Warframe's own melee system, then yeah I'll bet DE would think that Roar giving frames an extra 50% Power on average is "OvErPoWeReD" too.

 

Honestly, if DE and it's playerbase are so damn concerned with "Balance" and things being overpowered. Just make every weapon in the game do the exact same thing.

100 damage flat, every damage type. 

tenor.gif?itemid=13078930

Maybe then people will stop screaming. 

Also yes, I'm joking about the 100 damage thing.

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To be honest this whole talk about MR makes me think of TF2 and unusual hats

"omg he has a unusual he is clearly a vet to the game and is going to kick my ass" 

"omg he has high mr he is clearly a vet because he has a higher number"

 

you could get to the max mr the game has without knowing really whats best or not

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@DE pls consider to delay the helminth Chrysalis system and put it on the testserver instead
it doesn´t feel rdy yet, i mean 128 pages in this thread, last minute changes, no clarifications, 1800+ possible combinations... tenno can help, at least a poll, ty

 

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1 minute ago, FluterTree said:

To be honest this whole talk about MR makes me think of TF2 and unusual hats

"omg he has a unusual he is clearly a vet to the game and is going to kick my ass" 

"omg he has high mr he is clearly a vet because he has a higher number"

 

you could get to the max mr the game has without knowing really whats best or not

dude, you are so wong with that comparisson its not even funny.

MR isnt a mark of being a veteran, but, it is proof of time spent playing. meaning, more used to the game systems. you cant say mr 8 is as good a proof as mr 15 because some people dont do mr tests after 8.

if anything, not only would that be a good excuse to make those players do the mr tests. it would also literally lock players who just reached mr8 in a couple of weeks, and have but a handfull of frames only.

your argument is, " there are mr8s who are veterans". as if that would somehow explain why an mr8  would be enough... and no, the rank 3 on syndicate isnt anywhere near as good either, because of how low the rank 3 reqs are.

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I belive that if DE wants to bring new players they should do stuff FOCUSED on new players, the same way that if they want to keep old players, they should do stuff FOCUSED on old players.

trying to do things for both is the reason why the railjack failed so hard when it came out. tiered challenges, so begginers have stuff for them, and veterans do as well. you dont need to offer everything and the kitchen sink for begginers to make them play... but you do need to offer stuff that require them to stay if you want them to, well, you know, stay.

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No! No! No! 

MR8 is very new to the game! It's like 1 to 2 weeks of game play! 

The idea of not letting new players have access to this was very sound! Why did you throw that away?!

MR15 was a pretty good entry point imho. You don't need vaulted or event stuffs to get here. And, It does promote players who actually want to invest in the game play more towards it.

MR literally means, you have had n number of weapons and frames! Which translates to 'have tried different things available for play'. Which is a good entry to this system.

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26 minutes ago, Keyhound said:

I belive that if DE wants to bring new players they should do stuff FOCUSED on new players, the same way that if they want to keep old players, they should do stuff FOCUSED on old players.

trying to do things for both is the reason why the railjack failed so hard when it came out. tiered challenges, so begginers have stuff for them, and veterans do as well. you dont need to offer everything and the kitchen sink for begginers to make them play... but you do need to offer stuff that require them to stay if you want them to, well, you know, stay.

I just can't believe that they can't investigate a thing that everyone knows about: new players feel already overwhelmed about how much stuff there is in the game, and they have no direction. Learning curve is so steep people leave the game after a few months.
 

I had some money ready for the new update, after reading this I bought Fall Guys. LMAO

Let's see how much nerf has been done.

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11 minutes ago, (PS4)IrOrphanCrippler said:

Yet you see pandering to the low level players to be.....acceptable? In a game that involves low intermediate and high end players why do we mostly see content pander to the lowest level? 

With your MR and hours im shocked to see a player who has actually accomplished these things having this opinion.  Im at 9k hours and 29. Id like to see content geared towards players who give effort beyond the complacent mentality of " i don't need to lvl or get stronger or smarter cuz i have these really limited item, game isn't worth doing more anyway"

Do you feel that players who dedicate far more effort should not have any effort made towards us?

Personally, I'd rather see exclusive cosmetics locked behind MR ranks. Full armor sets and the like. Maybe give MR25+ really cool stuff like universal helms or something.

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None of these changes make any sense, so you're downgrading a system made specifically to experienced players into something even players with less than 100 hours can jump into? Exactly why? No player with less than MR12 should be able to make educated decisions on which abilities to replace on warframes, the literally don't have enough experience with the game to even attempt to engage with the system fully. This is clearly a change for the worse. While you're at it why not just remove MR altogether? There seems to be no reason for it to be in place, especially for primes, since you can just be MR0 and purchase a MR8 exclusive prime with no issues whatsoever.

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12 minutes ago, Keyhound said:

dude, you are so wong with that comparisson its not even funny.

MR isnt a mark of being a veteran, but, it is proof of time spent playing. meaning, more used to the game systems. you cant say mr 8 is as good a proof as mr 15 because some people dont do mr tests after 8.

if anything, not only would that be a good excuse to make those players do the mr tests. it would also literally lock players who just reached mr8 in a couple of weeks, and have but a handfull of frames only.

your argument is, " there are mr8s who are veterans". as if that would somehow explain why an mr8  would be enough... and no, the rank 3 on syndicate isnt anywhere near as good either, because of how low the rank 3 reqs are.

my arguement is that people are worrying that mr is too low because theres alot of mr10s who dont know about swearwordhere; are frogetting that the same people probs dont even have fortuna or poe at rank 3 or even rank 1 because the daily standing cap + how much you need would just put them off OR make them grind for higher MR to have a higher daily standing cap. if anything they should make it require vitus essence or steel essence to craft the system becaue then it would stop all this arguing about it being too low mr and become an arguement about how unfair it is that its locked behind a gamemode thats "hard" , also there is no way your going to be able to buy the system without needing to craft something otherwise then yeah the arguement for MR has more merrit since someone could just farm everyday and choose the system as the rank up reward not knowing what it is

Edited by FluterTree
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What about another grenade or infested warframe with the unlocking of the helmith room, and a few new NPC for the ship who are doctors or connected through the radio, this way we can also get some new equipment / enthusiasm and tutorials yielding rewards & bounties to fetch items at planes like we did with CY, cy can be involved, and a larger set of shops resembling dojo for the railjack is incorporating infested weapons, launchers, blueprints and archwing upgrades, robotics, escort/hire. bodyguards, and syndicates, this way sir, wares,  a grenade launcher and decoratives infested can be cleaned said ordis if they are just blueprint quality katanas and forged again,  from the excrements mods and special ammo, husk, minigame 

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16 hours ago, Syln said:

To be honest unless these two are nerfed to the ground they'll most likely be my choice.

That's probably good. They should be nerfed so they're not the obvious choice, but still kept strong enough so that they're a good choice. 

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6 minutes ago, Dragmod said:

Personally, I'd rather see exclusive cosmetics locked behind MR ranks. Full armor sets and the like. Maybe give MR25+ really cool stuff like universal helms or something.

So you do agree that players over a mastery lvl should have exclusive content but feel it should be only based on looks?  Its not a bad idea but honestly cosmetics should be paid for. Stats are lvled for. 

And a system like this that offers powers from any frame. A limited number of subsume slots,  a system that will be hard to lvl or its costs for Leveling will be reduced. Do you find players will make their own decisions or just get MR8 and YouTube what is best?

Edited by (PS4)IrOrphanCrippler
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vor 16 Stunden schrieb [DE]Megan:

AUGUST 19TH UPDATE:

Greetings, Tenno!

The launch of Heart of Deimos grows near, and we have some Helminth updates since we last posted! Below are 2 parts of updated/clarifying information that touches both Infused Warframe Abilities and the Helminth Segment acquisition.  

PART 1 - Changes to select Infused Warframe Abilities

Please keep in mind we’re still testing/playing around with the values for each, hence why the values are not present below:

The following only apply to Infused Warframe Abilities:

Rhino - Roar
Diminished Damage increase

Mirage - Eclipse
Diminished Damage increase and cap Damage Reduction 

Valkyr - Warcry
Attack speed increase reduced

Protea - Dispenser
Duration reduced

Nidus - Larva
Radius reduced

Wukong - Defy
Armor capped


Why do these Infused Warframe Abilities have these rules?
It was apparent in player feedback and play testing that these Infused Warframe Abilities had the potential to be the overwhelming choice; which is not ideal. Instead of changing the Ability outright due to those concerns, we decided to give them slight rules when Infused.


PART 2 - Helminth Segment Acquisition

As already indicated in this Dev Workshops original post, the Helminth Segment is acquired in the Heart of Deimos in the Entrati Syndicate. To expand on that, this means you’ll need to progress within the Entrati Syndicate located within the Necralisk to obtain the Helminth Segment before you can start experimenting with everything Helminth. 

Without spoiling too much, the Helminth Segment is currently obtained in Rank 3 of the Entrati Syndicate. This reminder is simply to set expectations on what you’ll have access to upon logging into the Heart of Deimos. 

That’s all for now!

This is not the right way to go about this. Making top choices wors wohnt make the bad choices good and there will allays be a top choice in the communiys eyes and thing shoud be alowed to be good and an X damage increase wasnt even overpowered it was just the best choice for many Frames because to many of the other abilitys are ether very niche and only yousefull on like 2 to 3 Frames or downright useless. The right way woud be to buff or change the abillitys that wherent compelling choices so you woud want to youse them instead and there are many things that woud do that. And already top down nerfing things before this is even released kinda lowers the hype for me considerably. And why is Defy there? seems kinda random.

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Just now, FluterTree said:

my arguement is that people are worrying that mr is too low because theres alot of mr10s who dont know about S#&$ are frogetting that the same people probs dont even have fortuna or poe at rank 3 or even rank 1 because the daily standing cap + how much you need would just put them off OR make them grind for higher MR to have a higher daily standing cap. if anything they should make it require vitus essence or steel essence to craft the system becaue then it would stop all this arguing about it being too low mr and become an arguement about how unfair it is that its locked behind a gamemode thats "hard" , also there is no way your going to be able to buy the system without needing to craft something otherwise then yeah the arguement for MR has more merrit since someone could just farm everyday and choose the system as the rank up reward not knowing what it is

mr 15 isnt high, but, it does require people to "master" a number of weapons and frames, meaning, they would get a better idea how warframes work. even if they focus more on weapons than frames, it will still force them to play the game enough to understand what the abilities do.

if anything, 15 is too early, which is also why some people think that it should be delayed to 16 or higher.

lowering the mr to 8 literally means, you need to use less stuff to reach it.

 

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Here's a question I'm not willing to read 120 pages to see if it's been asked

As we know a lot of thesr abilities are terrible but what if a frame gets a rework? Say Hydroid gets one cus his deluxe is out (wink wink nudge nudge) 

And suddenly tempest barrage is reworked/replaced and is suddenly extremely strong. 

What happens if

-Someone has this ability installed on a different frame 

Does it change to match the new ability?

is it just removed from the frame? 

If the new 1 is too strong what then? 

Is it removed and replaced with his 2 or 3 cus they are weaker? 

Does that mean in the future reworks subsumed abilities will be made weaker than what DE wanted to do cus of helminth

For instance wukong if he wasnt revisited and we got his iron staff would everyone get the iron staff removed from their frames and iron staff removed cus it's now a op clone? 

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18 minutes ago, Keyhound said:

MR isnt a mark of being a veteran, but, it is proof of time spent playing. meaning, more used to the game systems.

Lmao how is leveling a kraken and seer on hydron without ever shooting it just for MR worth anything. 
Ive been playing for 6 years with 3000 hours and am only mr20.

Simply because i do not care for leveling up weaponry that does not interest me.

Edited by _Gator
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5 minutes ago, (PS4)IrOrphanCrippler said:

So you do agree that players over a mastery lvl should have exclusive content but feel it should be only based on looks?  Its not a bad idea but honestly cosmetics should be paid for. Stats are lvled for. 

If we actually had content that called for it, sure. But as it stands now, it doesn't take much to overpower all the current offerings.

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