The Helminth: Dev Workshop

[Dragmod]

11 minutes ago, (PS4)IrOrphanCrippler said:

Yet you see pandering to the low level players to be.....acceptable? In a game that involves low intermediate and high end players why do we mostly see content pander to the lowest level? 

With your MR and hours im shocked to see a player who has actually accomplished these things having this opinion.  Im at 9k hours and 29. Id like to see content geared towards players who give effort beyond the complacent mentality of " i don't need to lvl or get stronger or smarter cuz i have these really limited item, game isn't worth doing more anyway"

Do you feel that players who dedicate far more effort should not have any effort made towards us?

Personally, I'd rather see exclusive cosmetics locked behind MR ranks. Full armor sets and the like. Maybe give MR25+ really cool stuff like universal helms or something.

[xVlad23]

None of these changes make any sense, so you're downgrading a system made specifically to experienced players into something even players with less than 100 hours can jump into? Exactly why? No player with less than MR12 should be able to make educated decisions on which abilities to replace on warframes, the literally don't have enough experience with the game to even attempt to engage with the system fully. This is clearly a change for the worse. While you're at it why not just remove MR altogether? There seems to be no reason for it to be in place, especially for primes, since you can just be MR0 and purchase a MR8 exclusive prime with no issues whatsoever.

[FluterTree]

12 minutes ago, Keyhound said:

dude, you are so wong with that comparisson its not even funny.

MR isnt a mark of being a veteran, but, it is proof of time spent playing. meaning, more used to the game systems. you cant say mr 8 is as good a proof as mr 15 because some people dont do mr tests after 8.

if anything, not only would that be a good excuse to make those players do the mr tests. it would also literally lock players who just reached mr8 in a couple of weeks, and have but a handfull of frames only.

your argument is, " there are mr8s who are veterans". as if that would somehow explain why an mr8  would be enough... and no, the rank 3 on syndicate isnt anywhere near as good either, because of how low the rank 3 reqs are.

my arguement is that people are worrying that mr is too low because theres alot of mr10s who dont know about swearwordhere; are frogetting that the same people probs dont even have fortuna or poe at rank 3 or even rank 1 because the daily standing cap + how much you need would just put them off OR make them grind for higher MR to have a higher daily standing cap. if anything they should make it require vitus essence or steel essence to craft the system becaue then it would stop all this arguing about it being too low mr and become an arguement about how unfair it is that its locked behind a gamemode thats "hard" , also there is no way your going to be able to buy the system without needing to craft something otherwise then yeah the arguement for MR has more merrit since someone could just farm everyday and choose the system as the rank up reward not knowing what it is

[SnakeBadger]

What about another grenade or infested warframe with the unlocking of the helmith room, and a few new NPC for the ship who are doctors or connected through the radio, this way we can also get some new equipment / enthusiasm and tutorials yielding rewards & bounties to fetch items at planes like we did with CY, cy can be involved, and a larger set of shops resembling dojo for the railjack is incorporating infested weapons, launchers, blueprints and archwing upgrades, robotics, escort/hire. bodyguards, and syndicates, this way sir, wares,  a grenade launcher and decoratives infested can be cleaned said ordis if they are just blueprint quality katanas and forged again,  from the excrements mods and special ammo, husk, minigame 

[Huggalump]

16 hours ago, Syln said:

To be honest unless these two are nerfed to the ground they'll most likely be my choice.

That's probably good. They should be nerfed so they're not the obvious choice, but still kept strong enough so that they're a good choice. 

[IRVoidGuru]

6 minutes ago, Dragmod said:

Personally, I'd rather see exclusive cosmetics locked behind MR ranks. Full armor sets and the like. Maybe give MR25+ really cool stuff like universal helms or something.

So you do agree that players over a mastery lvl should have exclusive content but feel it should be only based on looks?  Its not a bad idea but honestly cosmetics should be paid for. Stats are lvled for. 

And a system like this that offers powers from any frame. A limited number of subsume slots,  a system that will be hard to lvl or its costs for Leveling will be reduced. Do you find players will make their own decisions or just get MR8 and YouTube what is best?

[TeamPlasmaNowa]

vor 16 Stunden schrieb [DE]Megan:

AUGUST 19TH UPDATE:

Greetings, Tenno!

The launch of Heart of Deimos grows near, and we have some Helminth updates since we last posted! Below are 2 parts of updated/clarifying information that touches both Infused Warframe Abilities and the Helminth Segment acquisition.  

PART 1 - Changes to select Infused Warframe Abilities

Please keep in mind we’re still testing/playing around with the values for each, hence why the values are not present below:

The following only apply to Infused Warframe Abilities:

Rhino - Roar
Diminished Damage increase

Mirage - Eclipse
Diminished Damage increase and cap Damage Reduction 

Valkyr - Warcry
Attack speed increase reduced

Protea - Dispenser
Duration reduced

Nidus - Larva
Radius reduced

Wukong - Defy
Armor capped

Why do these Infused Warframe Abilities have these rules?
It was apparent in player feedback and play testing that these Infused Warframe Abilities had the potential to be the overwhelming choice; which is not ideal. Instead of changing the Ability outright due to those concerns, we decided to give them slight rules when Infused.

PART 2 - Helminth Segment Acquisition

As already indicated in this Dev Workshops original post, the Helminth Segment is acquired in the Heart of Deimos in the Entrati Syndicate. To expand on that, this means you’ll need to progress within the Entrati Syndicate located within the Necralisk to obtain the Helminth Segment before you can start experimenting with everything Helminth. 

Without spoiling too much, the Helminth Segment is currently obtained in Rank 3 of the Entrati Syndicate. This reminder is simply to set expectations on what you’ll have access to upon logging into the Heart of Deimos. 

That’s all for now!

This is not the right way to go about this. Making top choices wors wohnt make the bad choices good and there will allays be a top choice in the communiys eyes and thing shoud be alowed to be good and an X damage increase wasnt even overpowered it was just the best choice for many Frames because to many of the other abilitys are ether very niche and only yousefull on like 2 to 3 Frames or downright useless. The right way woud be to buff or change the abillitys that wherent compelling choices so you woud want to youse them instead and there are many things that woud do that. And already top down nerfing things before this is even released kinda lowers the hype for me considerably. And why is Defy there? seems kinda random.

[Keyhound]

Just now, FluterTree said:

my arguement is that people are worrying that mr is too low because theres alot of mr10s who dont know about S#&$ are frogetting that the same people probs dont even have fortuna or poe at rank 3 or even rank 1 because the daily standing cap + how much you need would just put them off OR make them grind for higher MR to have a higher daily standing cap. if anything they should make it require vitus essence or steel essence to craft the system becaue then it would stop all this arguing about it being too low mr and become an arguement about how unfair it is that its locked behind a gamemode thats "hard" , also there is no way your going to be able to buy the system without needing to craft something otherwise then yeah the arguement for MR has more merrit since someone could just farm everyday and choose the system as the rank up reward not knowing what it is

mr 15 isnt high, but, it does require people to "master" a number of weapons and frames, meaning, they would get a better idea how warframes work. even if they focus more on weapons than frames, it will still force them to play the game enough to understand what the abilities do.

if anything, 15 is too early, which is also why some people think that it should be delayed to 16 or higher.

lowering the mr to 8 literally means, you need to use less stuff to reach it.

 

[MrPotatoFudge]

Here's a question I'm not willing to read 120 pages to see if it's been asked

As we know a lot of thesr abilities are terrible but what if a frame gets a rework? Say Hydroid gets one cus his deluxe is out (wink wink nudge nudge) 

And suddenly tempest barrage is reworked/replaced and is suddenly extremely strong. 

What happens if

-Someone has this ability installed on a different frame 

Does it change to match the new ability?

is it just removed from the frame? 

If the new 1 is too strong what then? 

Is it removed and replaced with his 2 or 3 cus they are weaker? 

Does that mean in the future reworks subsumed abilities will be made weaker than what DE wanted to do cus of helminth

For instance wukong if he wasnt revisited and we got his iron staff would everyone get the iron staff removed from their frames and iron staff removed cus it's now a op clone? 

[-BM-Orca]

18 minutes ago, Keyhound said:

MR isnt a mark of being a veteran, but, it is proof of time spent playing. meaning, more used to the game systems.

Lmao how is leveling a kraken and seer on hydron without ever shooting it just for MR worth anything. 
Ive been playing for 6 years with 3000 hours and am only mr20.

Simply because i do not care for leveling up weaponry that does not interest me.

[Dragmod]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)IrOrphanCrippler said:

So you do agree that players over a mastery lvl should have exclusive content but feel it should be only based on looks?  Its not a bad idea but honestly cosmetics should be paid for. Stats are lvled for. 

If we actually had content that called for it, sure. But as it stands now, it doesn't take much to overpower all the current offerings.

[FluterTree]

Just now, Keyhound said:

mr 15 isnt high, but, it does require people to "master" a number of weapons and frames, meaning, they would get a better idea how warframes work. even if they focus more on weapons than frames, it will still force them to play the game enough to understand what the abilities do.

if anything, 15 is too early, which is also why some people think that it should be delayed to 16 or higher.

lowering the mr to 8 literally means, you need to use less stuff to reach it.

 

tbh id rather they just have it require a late game resource then to craft as a gate to entry because leveling up weapons and warframes is so easy that the mr requirement is still stupid even if it was 20 because if i can get to 20 while only just crafting a new amp thats not the starting one anyone can

[Keyhound]

3 minutes ago, Huggalump said:

That's probably good. They should be nerfed so they're not the obvious choice, but still kept strong enough so that they're a good choice. 

no amount of nerf will make it less good than decoy for the vast majority of players. like someone said, even if they lower it to a cap of 25% its still better than most other abilities you can pick... so no, this is not "probably good". people will pick roar, they will pick eclipse, and they will pick larva, because they are amazing abilities(eclipse less so due to its unreliability), that are plug and play. molt will be a better choice to decoy, radial blind will garantee noone picks desiccation and so on... the problem is how bad the other choices are. and you cant fix that by lowering the quality of the good ones...

[Keyhound]

Just now, FluterTree said:

tbh id rather they just have it require a late game resource then to craft as a gate to entry because leveling up weapons and warframes is so easy that the mr requirement is still stupid even if it was 20 because if i can get to 20 while only just crafting a new amp thats not the starting one anyone can

i think you are missing the point hard. first of all, you literally cant reach mr 20 by just leveling amps. second, requiring a late game resource wouldnt solve anything because you can taxi players. mr is literally bound by how much time you played the game, even if you buy everything with real money, you still need to max it by playing the game. and that will lead to understanding better how abilities work. which results in making better decisions.

im still trying to understand why you dont get this. nobody is saying higher mr because is good, they are talking about mr because its a literal mark of time spent playing. no matter what you used to get there, you still need to play the game to reach it.

[Huggalump]

1 minute ago, Keyhound said:

no amount of nerf will make it less good than decoy for the vast majority of players. like someone said, even if they lower it to a cap of 25% its still better than most other abilities you can pick... so no, this is not "probably good". people will pick roar, they will pick eclipse, and they will pick larva, because they are amazing abilities(eclipse less so due to its unreliability), that are plug and play. molt will be a better choice to decoy, radial blind will garantee noone picks desiccation and so on... the problem is how bad the other choices are. and you cant fix that by lowering the quality of the good ones...

I'm trying to find where in my post I said that there should be some amount of nerf to make decoy competitive with them, and golly, I just can't find it. 

Also, you're misinterpreting what I said "that's good" about. Did you quote the changes and say that's good? Or did I quote someone saying that he'll still choose roar and I said that's good?

[SnakeBadger]

The steelpath missions are fun, but i dont feel like there's any great mission rewards or items to find during the fights i just felt like the enemies and environments could have been different or reworked to feature darker and nightmare things, or at least a change is seeing the earth tilesets having corpus enemies and other space or archwing rewards added for the players to feel intrigued i think kuva siphon is simular, its somewhat boring and needs alot of changes. maybe make the dogs in earth have a sturdier bison version like streetfighter has balrog and zangief, usually the games dogs die instantly with their nest topled in one hit, so earth tilesets is nothing but another fight with the machinegun grinder, environments seem useless and dull, only a few stationary turrets occasionally in normal mode, so steelpath and helminth need to bring more to eveery planet reward and conquest pve only seem important in some missions now and story were they ablaze causing smogging fires rains magic the grineer too need their own technology twisters, so AOE damage and traps, ships, and robots instead of flesh zombies make for sturdier or heavy armor enemies, amalgams, or not. would be a good start to just place sturdier locks, flying gunners, or laserdoors and statues, optinal sidequest items fortuna excavators and siphon for players who want to stick around gathering XP and trash to give the Helminth per planet, i honestly could only do like 3 steelpath missions before i quit. Rivens give a simular feel to the event the heavy weapons feel good, 

[AANGDETO]

I am MR29, I only have 1500 hours (ish) in the game and I have put far more money in this game that I am willing to admit. So some people's criteria are somewhat wrong, at least from my personal experience.

I think in the end every players matter as long as they actually play the game ; many (many) players don't actually play the game for more than a few hours (just look at the steam successes, it is sad really).

And I want to say that MR lock can act as a protection for the new players, because the game can be a little complex (not as much as say, Path of Exile, but still), so the MR8 lock is too low for the own good of the new players (and with 9000 syndicates' points per day and no resource, what a good experience it will be).

IMO the priority of DE should be to retain every players, and they still don't realize that new players don't crave new contents (they already have enough to do), only the veterans crave new contents.

[FluterTree]

1 minute ago, Keyhound said:

i think you are missing the point hard. first of all, you literally cant reach mr 20 by just leveling amps. second, requiring a late game resource wouldnt solve anything because you can taxi players. mr is literally bound by how much time you played the game, even if you buy everything with real money, you still need to max it by playing the game. and that will lead to understanding better how abilities work. which results in making better decisions.

im still trying to understand why you dont get this. nobody is saying higher mr because is good, they are talking about mr because its a literal mark of time spent playing. no matter what you used to get there, you still need to play the game to reach it.

so all the posts saying that the mr should be higher for "vets" is nobody? time does not equal skill was what i was trying to get at and "late game resource" i meant either steel path or arbitration which have a MR requirement outside of doing every starchart misson

[selig_fay]

11 minutes ago, MrPotatoFudge said:

Here's a question I'm not willing to read 120 pages to see if it's been asked

 

As we know a lot of thesr abilities are terrible 

 

But what if a frame gets a rework? Say Hydroid gets one cus his deluxe is out (wink wink nudge nudge) 

 

And suddenly tempest barrage is reworked/replaced and is suddenly extremely strong. 

 

What happens if

-Someone has this ability installed on a different frame 

Does it change to match the new ability?

is it just removed from the frame? 

If the new 1 is too strong what then? 

 

Is it removed and replaced with his 2 or 3 cus they are weaker? 

 

Does that mean in the future reworks subsumed abilities will be made weaker than what DE wanted to do cus of helminth

 

For instance wukong if he wasnt revisited and we got his iron staff would everyone get the iron staff removed from their frames and iron staff removed cus it's now a op clone? 

From a programming point of view, there is no problem if implemented correctly. Imagine that you have abilities in the form of a large number of folders that are sorted into frames. But also imagine that frames are separate from their abilities and only receive a path reference. Now imagine a helminth system, which is also created in the form of folders, which is sorted into frames, where each folder contains a file that contains a link to the ability and addition settings. When you apply helminth you get this link. 

If you do so, the change in ability will not affect the helminth, but will affect all users of the link that indicates this ability. But if we want to change the helminth, this is a completely different matter.

Of course it's not that simple, but this is an abstract example.

[(NSW)Lorkhan]

il y a 2 minutes, SnakeBadger a dit :

The steelpath missions are fun, but i dont feel like there's any great mission rewards or items to find during the fights i just felt like the enemies and environments could have been different or reworked to feature darker and nightmare things, or at least a change is seeing the earth tilesets having corpus enemies and other space or archwing rewards added for the players to feel intrigued i think kuva siphon is simular, its somewhat boring and needs alot of changes. maybe make the dogs in earth have a sturdier bison version like streetfighter has balrog and zangief, usually the games dogs die instantly with their nest topled in one hit, so earth tilesets is nothing but another fight with the machinegun grinder, environments seem useless and dull, only a few stationary turrets occasionally in normal mode, so steelpath and helminth need to bring more to eveery planet reward and conquest pve only seem important in some missions now and story were they ablaze causing smogging fires rains magic the grineer too need their own technology twisters, so AOE damage and traps, ships, and robots instead of flesh zombies make for sturdier or heavy armor enemies, amalgams, or not. would be a good start to just place sturdier locks, flying gunners, or laserdoors and statues, optinal sidequest items fortuna excavators and siphon for players who want to stick around gathering XP and trash to give the Helminth per planet, i honestly could only do like 3 steelpath missions before i quit. Rivens give a simular feel to the event the heavy weapons feel good, 

The only real reason i do Steel path is to get the trophys for my orditer decoration. Thats all

[SnakeBadger]

Grineer should get a few magic abilities of their own in regular tilesets right now they only feature bullets and deflecting shields, occasionally they should shoot a fire causing bullet or thunderbolt, shock vesselment trap, if they have a tennopod or have siphon on, then the weather and their abilities are aughmented further or amalgamed which influences the mods and items that they drop, ammo, and combat magic.

because of helminth also the rare birds animals would get some magic defenses and green husk, survival is important, they have strange feathering and nest guardians, rebels, and protectors deflecting environmentalist, thepatterns would be logical to see them attack players or berserked once in a while they could shoot out electrocution like pikachu in large AOE / HP patterns, and appear in vents and ships aughmented with robotics and made pets/infested

[SnakeBadger]

2 minutes ago, (NSW)Lorkhan said:

The only real reason i do Steel path is to get the trophys for my orditer decoration. Thats all

ok

[---UMBRA---]

I agree with nerfs. BUT. I completely disagreee with reducing to MR8. It is end game content as DE said that this system is not for new players.  #REVERTTOMR15

[SnakeBadger]

Just now, ---UMBRA--- said:

I agree with nerfs. BUT. I completely disagreee with reducing to MR8. It is end game content as DE said that this system is not for new players.  #REVERTTOMR15

I like the idea of MR8, just limit the types of rewards and functions with MR in the future, i honestly just got here, its new content, the game will be boring without it so, dont get mad at me.

[FluterTree]

Just now, ---UMBRA--- said:

I agree with nerfs. BUT. I completely disagreee with reducing to MR8. It is end game content as DE said that this system is not for new players.  #REVERTTOMR15

a new player could just buy weapons and warframes to level up to get to mr15 and still be new to the game, just rich