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Sorry, but "system for very experienced Warframe players" and "Mr. 8" don't coincide. Revert it back to Mr. 15, or better yet make it Mr. 20. Seriously ...

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16 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

AUGUST 19TH UPDATE:

Greetings, Tenno!

The launch of Heart of Deimos grows near, and we have some Helminth updates since we last posted! Below are 2 parts of updated/clarifying information that touches both Infused Warframe Abilities and the Helminth Segment acquisition.  

PART 1 - Changes to select Infused Warframe Abilities

Please keep in mind we’re still testing/playing around with the values for each, hence why the values are not present below:

The following only apply to Infused Warframe Abilities:

Rhino - Roar
Diminished Damage increase

Mirage - Eclipse
Diminished Damage increase and cap Damage Reduction 

Valkyr - Warcry
Attack speed increase reduced

Protea - Dispenser
Duration reduced

Nidus - Larva
Radius reduced

Wukong - Defy
Armor capped


Why do these Infused Warframe Abilities have these rules?
It was apparent in player feedback and play testing that these Infused Warframe Abilities had the potential to be the overwhelming choice; which is not ideal. Instead of changing the Ability outright due to those concerns, we decided to give them slight rules when Infused.


PART 2 - Helminth Segment Acquisition

As already indicated in this Dev Workshops original post, the Helminth Segment is acquired in the Heart of Deimos in the Entrati Syndicate. To expand on that, this means you’ll need to progress within the Entrati Syndicate located within the Necralisk to obtain the Helminth Segment before you can start experimenting with everything Helminth. 

Without spoiling too much, the Helminth Segment is currently obtained in Rank 3 of the Entrati Syndicate. This reminder is simply to set expectations on what you’ll have access to upon logging into the Heart of Deimos. 

That’s all for now!

Revert all of these changes and increase the MR requirement back up to MR 15. You told us this was supposed to be LATE GAME and not accessible to new players. You haven't even RELEASED it and you're already nerfing it and make it new player accessible. The system before these tweaks was FINE. Some of these changes exist only to HURT potential synergies! This was supposed to be late game and a powerful incentive for players to reach higher levels, and I was super excited about this, but now I'm just bummed out about it. Please just revert these changes. 

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3 minutes ago, Keyhound said:

like i already told you, that would still require them to play with those frames, even if they dont use all of them, they are still using some. however, those are far lower in number, and would still happen no matter if mr 8 or 15.

15 just means more frames and weapons need to be leveled. and yes, this is also why people said mr15 is too low as well.

didnt you say about players bussing lower players? i could drag someone to sedna to level up S#&$ without them even having to use any abilties what so ever so they still dont know what the warframe is about. hell make it so you can only consume rank 30 warframes then its required for them to play the warframe

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1 минуту назад, Tuiat сказал:

Don't agree with nerfs. We don't need them.

I think roar will be dominate at all that is why variety will be detroyed. This fact forced DE to nerf imbalanced abilities in pool

 

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hace 1 minuto, ---UMBRA--- dijo:

I think roar will be dominate at all that is why variety will be detroyed. This fact forced DE to nerf imbalanced abilities in pool

 

Then you simply don't add imbalanced abilities to the pool.

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Don't gut the Helminth System before it even launches! Don't nerf the abilities people actually want to use! Don't add caveats to some infused abilities! Some abilities will be better than others, don't normalize it so everything is meh! I've been thinking about new builds since Tennocon, don't take the shine off it!

New players don't need more activities, they have two open worlds, a star chart, all the quests, the relic system, the weapons from Invasion missions, dojos to build, Nightmare mods, Corrupted mods, Riven mods, Syndicate rewards, Endo farming for mods, acquiring MR, Archwing, and Railjack. All of these things to farm for! Months and months of content. I'm not saying we should gatekeep new players, but the amount of stuff is already overwhelming! Maybe lowering the MR and the nerfs to infused abilities are unrelated, but please don't balance the Helminth System to new players.

Customising Warframe abilities should intrinsically be a high mastery system, because you need to know how everything works to understand what you want to change. Low level content doesn't need custom spec Warframes. I never played Ash right, but he's really good at killing tough single targets. You don't need this for the star chart, because you can point an Atomos (etc.) at it, or just cleave through hordes with a half decent melee weapon. Steel Path has given me a reason to consider Ash. I didn't need more tools and customisation to clear the star chart, I needed Endo and Credits. I need more tools to clear the challenges of Steel Path, tools like the Helminth System!

TL;DR: Buff Ice Wave instead of nerfing Roar!

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18 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

The following only apply to Infused Warframe Abilities:

Rhino - Roar
Diminished Damage increase

Mirage - Eclipse
Diminished Damage increase and cap Damage Reduction 

Valkyr - Warcry
Attack speed increase reduced

Protea - Dispenser
Duration reduced

Nidus - Larva
Radius reduced

Wukong - Defy
Armor capped

I have a suggestion that I think many other players have thought of and suggested already, instead of nerfing the actually good abilities, either change or buff the less appealing ones, such as pull, with the augment greedy pull, no one is going to use that along with a few other abilities. People were really excited for this update and breath of fresh air for warframe but now the hype is going down rapidly because we can see now all you will do is continue to nerf the good ones until they barely do anything. Warframe isn't balanced at all, so if you really wanted balance you would have changed rivens ages ago. Let us have some fun, or actually focus on balancing the game. Because nerfing these isn't a solution, don't limit or cap them and give us better or buffed alternate abilities. I also believe this would be a good time to change and buff augments as many of them are useless, or simply not good enough to replace a key slot in our Warframe builds - mabye we could get an augment slot so that some of the abilities become more viable?. In short, I think it would be more beneficial to revert these changes, and give us more viable and fun options for subsumed abilities. You want diversity in gameplay and builds so give us something worth investing in, you can do that by buffing the worse stuff, abilities and weapons. It is unfortunate that you restrict us so much and say that you want diversity and balance but don't change any of the major issues, just kill the fun stuff. Many players agree and would like you to reconsider these choices, and change your approach to other issues as well.

Edited by Pulsar_Prime
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Just now, SnakeBadger said:

na, just want everyone to have fun with the new content

belive it or not, me saying it should be at mr15 at the very least is as well. mr15 isnt hard to get, but it takes longer than mr 8 for obvious reasons, even if people speed it by buying frames. being a free to play game, im sure this is far from being the majority, however, i see new players getting too overwhelmed with "new content". and one of the biggest problem the game has is people leaving because they dont "get it".

warframe should have a dedicated new player update. but at the same time, it also should have a dedicated late game update that isnt just "same maps, but higher level". trying to make stuff for "veterans", that also work for begginers is a mistake DE keep repeating and failing at.

this is aimed at veterans, or at the very least, at people with a solid understanding of the abilities. locking at mr15 was no garantee, but lowering it to mr8 wont solve it, but it will lead to begginers, who rushed to get the "new bling", stuck with something that is way over their head.

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3 minutes ago, Pulsar_Prime said:

I have a suggestion that I think many other players have thought of and suggested already, instead of nerfing the actually good abilities, either change or buff the less appealing ones, such as pull, with the augment greedy pull, no one is going to use that along with a few other abilities. People were really excited for this update and breath of fresh air for warframe but now the hype is going down rapidly because we can see now all you will do is continue to nerf the good ones until they barely do anything. Warframe isn't balanced at all, so if you really wanted balance you would have changed rivens ages ago. Let us have some fun, or actually focus on balancing the game. Because nerfing these isn't a solution, don't limit or cap them and give us better or buffed alternate abilities. I also believe this would be a good time to change and buff augments as many of them are useless, or simply not good enough to replace a key slot in our Warframe builds. In short, I think it would be more beneficial to revert these changes, and give us more viable and fun options for subsumed abilities. You want diversity in gameplay and builds so give us something worth investing in, you can do that by buffing the worse stuff, abilities and weapons. It is unfortunate that you restrict us so much and say that you want diversity and balance but don't change any of the major issues, just kill the fun stuff. Many players agree and would like you to reconsider these choices, and change your approach to other issues as well.

Exactly. Revert these changes, increase the MR requirement to AT LEAST 15 and start buffing the abilities you think wouldn't get as much use. Nerfing abilities is lazy and just restricts us and kills our fun. 

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tbh they should just rehaul MR because MR being linked to leveling up weapons and warframes gets really borring when your starting to run into only having prime things to master which are locked behind trading.. which not everyone wants to do

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22 minutes ago, Keyhound said:

belive it or not, me saying it should be at mr15 at the very least is as well. mr15 isnt hard to get, but it takes longer than mr 8 for obvious reasons, even if people speed it by buying frames. being a free to play game, im sure this is far from being the majority, however, i see new players getting too overwhelmed with "new content". and one of the biggest problem the game has is people leaving because they dont "get it".

warframe should have a dedicated new player update. but at the same time, it also should have a dedicated late game update that isnt just "same maps, but higher level". trying to make stuff for "veterans", that also work for begginers is a mistake DE keep repeating and failing at.

this is aimed at veterans, or at the very least, at people with a solid understanding of the abilities. locking at mr15 was no garantee, but lowering it to mr8 wont solve it, but it will lead to begginers, who rushed to get the "new bling", stuck with something that is way over their head.

I have seen a lot of good player and most of them are over MR15 but generally i see only occasional player with no idea how to play under that MR. (OK i have seen even MR29 with no idea how to play but it's not that common). Probably they made 2 multiplications and the result is that the pool of  players is too little for only +MR15.

Edited by bibmobello
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5 minutes ago, FluterTree said:

didnt you say about players bussing lower players? i could drag someone to sedna to level up S#&$ without them even having to use any abilties what so ever so they still dont know what the warframe is about. hell make it so you can only consume rank 30 warframes then its required for them to play the warframe

yeah, you could... does that mean that's how every player gets to mr15? no. this doesnt happen like this, you could speed your farm by being carried, sure, but you are mistaken if you think everyone level every frame, like this, they still need to do the mr tests, and they still need to wait each day to try again if they fail. most players will play the game normally. mr 15 isnt this massive mark of mastery. but it at least require enough time spent playing the game.

and there will be cases of players reaching mr15 before understanding the system... but my point, and most people talking about this is, the number will be MUCH BIGGER if the mr is lowered to 8.

mr15 is no garantee, but lowering it to 8 and adding some crappy 3 rank on syndicate wont make it better.

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To the various people that comment on the fact that MR means nothing and is a useless metric. You are totally right, but you miss the point that it's the metric chosen by DE to try to discriminate between newcomer and experienced player. Is it flawed ? immensely. Could there be a better way ? Certainly. But that doesn't matter; DE has chosen and keep chosing to stick to MR as a way to lock out "not for newcomer" stuff.

Because DE don't want to change that, we have no other possibility that try to use this incredibly useless metric when talking about limiting a disruptive mechanic to new players so that they don't get even more overwhelmed.

A higher MR is not a indicator of better skill. It is however and indicator of longer investment, and as a result an increased potential for better skills; as well as a higher amount of resources.

MR8 is so low that you barely need to interact with the game. This means that MR8 will have a high ratio of people that don't have enough understanding or enough resources to interact with the Helminth system. In both case, the results would be bad. Someone without enough understanding could just make their frame less effective; and a newcomer without enough resources risks throwing everything they have into this system, when they have a lot more important stuff to do with those resources.

Ideally, I'd love to see this system being restricted behind a smarter system that the MR. But as long as DE stick to MR, we have no choice than arguying about it.

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I am sure many have suggested  this but please reconsider this.  I think before considering any nerfs some less desirable abilities should be changed out for more desirable options.  Raise the floor but keep the ceiling where it is now to help promote real choice while keeping the system good.  The more great choices we have the healthier the system.  Nerfs to the top tier choices wont slove the problem it won't make the less desirable choices  better or picked more it will just sour people.  We need as many compelling ability swap choices as possible for a diverse and healthy system.

Edited by (PS4)klipschfan71
took time to add better thoughts
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2 minutes ago, Aralicia said:

To the various people that comment on the fact that MR means nothing and is a useless metric. You are totally right, but you miss the point that it's the metric chosen by DE to try to discriminate between newcomer and experienced player. Is it flawed ? immensely. Could there be a better way ? Certainly. But that doesn't matter; DE has chosen and keep chosing to stick to MR as a way to lock out "not for newcomer" stuff.

Because DE don't want to change that, we have no other possibility that try to use this incredibly useless metric when talking about limiting a disruptive mechanic to new players so that they don't get even more overwhelmed.

A higher MR is not a indicator of better skill. It is however and indicator of longer investment, and as a result an increased potential for better skills; as well as a higher amount of resources.

MR8 is so low that you barely need to interact with the game. This means that MR8 will have a high ratio of people that don't have enough understanding or enough resources to interact with the Helminth system. In both case, the results would be bad. Someone without enough understanding could just make their frame less effective; and a newcomer without enough resources risks throwing everything they have into this system, when they have a lot more important stuff to do with those resources.

Ideally, I'd love to see this system being restricted behind a smarter system that the MR. But as long as DE stick to MR, we have no choice than arguying about it.

YES. i still dont understand how hard this is to grasp for some people. nobody is saying MR is a mark of mastery, just that, its a mark of time played since even if you do carried all the way through(which is arguible how much this happens), most players will have chance of having a better grasp on how abilities work, and the mechanics of the game, than mr8.

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9 minutes ago, ---UMBRA--- said:

I think roar will be dominate at all that is why variety will be detroyed. This fact forced DE to nerf imbalanced abilities in pool

 

People are freaking out about Roar way too much. On the one end, we already deal way more damage than Warframe's typical content necessitates without any buffs. There's no practical value in Roar, at best it just feels satisfying cause big numbers.

And on the other end, people are already doing level cap runs without it. Will having access to it make them easier to do? Sure. But don't act like there's any damage control to be done at this point, it's simply too late.

Most of the time, an ability that gives you some utility will be much more helpful and powerful than a silly damage buff.

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vor 11 Minuten schrieb (PS4)BeeJayTea:

TL;DR: Buff Ice Wave instead of nerfing Roar!

How could a buff to Ice Wave look like so that anyone would consider taking it over roar?

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DE, I love you guys, but you are horrendously bad at reading the room sometimes. Ask yourselves this: Is it better to:

1. Nerf overturned abilities to disappoint a hyped player base

Or

2. Buff undertuned/out of date abilities to make them more compelling choices.

Real puzzle, that one. 

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1 minute ago, Keyhound said:

yeah, you could... does that mean that's how every player gets to mr15? no. this doesnt happen like this, you could speed your farm by being carried, sure, but you are mistaken if you think everyone level every frame, like this, they still need to do the mr tests, and they still need to wait each day to try again if they fail. most players will play the game normally. mr 15 isnt this massive mark of mastery. but it at least require enough time spent playing the game.

and there will be cases of players reaching mr15 before understanding the system... but my point, and most people talking about this is, the number will be MUCH BIGGER if the mr is lowered to 8.

mr15 is no garantee, but lowering it to 8 and adding some crappy 3 rank on syndicate wont make it better.

im going to change my view into one of, they need to rework MR into something else that isnt just locked to weapons and warframes because if its that easy to get to MR8 while still being clueless then theres an issue with the game itself being too easy for new players. hell someone whos rank 15 i know only found out about doing the syndicates to the left of the misson console because the game doesnt exsplain it. I feel like people should stop saying revert the change and say #fixMR

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8 minutes ago, Aralicia said:

To the various people that comment on the fact that MR means nothing and is a useless metric. You are totally right, but you miss the point that it's the metric chosen by DE to try to discriminate between newcomer and experienced player. Is it flawed ? immensely. Could there be a better way ? Certainly. But that doesn't matter; DE has chosen and keep chosing to stick to MR as a way to lock out "not for newcomer" stuff.

Because DE don't want to change that, we have no other possibility that try to use this incredibly useless metric when talking about limiting a disruptive mechanic to new players so that they don't get even more overwhelmed.

A higher MR is not a indicator of better skill. It is however and indicator of longer investment, and as a result an increased potential for better skills; as well as a higher amount of resources.

MR8 is so low that you barely need to interact with the game. This means that MR8 will have a high ratio of people that don't have enough understanding or enough resources to interact with the Helminth system. In both case, the results would be bad. Someone without enough understanding could just make their frame less effective; and a newcomer without enough resources risks throwing everything they have into this system, when they have a lot more important stuff to do with those resources.

Ideally, I'd love to see this system being restricted behind a smarter system that the MR. But as long as DE stick to MR, we have no choice than arguying about it.

An higher MR is an index of average experience and gear owned. you can see a bunch of bad MR29 players but a lot of MR 12 players.

 

2 minutes ago, vFlitz said:

People are freaking out about Roar way too much. On the one end, we already deal way more damage than Warframe's typical content necessitates without any buffs. There's no practical value in Roar, at best it just feels satisfying cause big numbers.

And on the other end, people are already doing level cap runs without it. Will having access to it make them easier to do? Sure. But don't act like there's any damage control to be done at this point, it's simply too late.

Most of the time, an ability that gives you some utility will be much more helpful and powerful than a silly damage buff.

Even with 20% more damage is surely better than some abilities like Inaros 2.

Edited by bibmobello
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1 minute ago, Sahansral said:

How could a buff to Ice Wave look like so that anyone would consider taking it over roar?

I was already thinking of taking Ice wave over any of the other abilities for some frames. 

Edited by DeusTurbo
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