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Gerade eben schrieb (XB1)beetalogist:

DE, I love you guys, but you are horrendously bad at reading the room sometimes. Ask yourselves this: Is it better to:

1. Nerf overturned abilities to disappoint a hyped player base

Or

2. Buff undertuned/out of date abilities to make them more compelling choices.

Real puzzle, that one. 

Well, not easy to rework 35 abilitites to make them competitive with the best 6 with the deadline coming nearer and nearer and having all available ressources bount to new content...

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1 minute ago, vFlitz said:

People are freaking out about Roar way too much. On the one end, we already deal way more damage than Warframe's typical content necessitates without any buffs. There's no practical value in Roar, at best it just feels satisfying cause big numbers.

And on the other end, people are already doing level cap runs without it. Will having access to it make them easier to do? Sure. But don't act like there's any damage control to be done at this point, it's simply too late.

Most of the time, an ability that gives you some utility will be much more helpful and powerful than a silly damage buff.

the big problem is not that "they nerfed roar", its that they are missing the point on why people will pick roar instead of pull(for example).

roar is a simple, more damage ability. it will be the most used by that simple fact that you can stick it on pretty much any frame and it will be better for it. now compare it with decoy, an ability that even if you do use the augments, its still a bad ability on anything but loki(and that only because you can use teleport to swap places on spy missions).

as is, many abilities dont offer enough of a reason to be picked, and even if they picked charge, people still wouldnt select it to be used...

 

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Just now, Sahansral said:

Well, not easy to rework 35 abilitites to make them competitive with the best 6 with the deadline coming nearer and nearer and having all available ressources bount to new content...

What do you think hotfixes are for? Release the system as is, study the numbers on which abilities get used most, and then buff the abilities that get used the least so that there is more competition and choice for players. Don't just nerf stuff before it is even released. 

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4 minutes ago, Sahansral said:

Well, not easy to rework 35 abilitites to make them competitive with the best 6 with the deadline coming nearer and nearer and having all available ressources bount to new content...

It was easy if they reworked the actual abilities before this update.

Some of them are just trash.

Chroma 1

inaros 2

Valkyr 1

ivara noise arrow

and so on...

While many other are just broken and OP.

 

Edited by bibmobello
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While i'm mostly disagree with the latest changes, i think it's good for new players when you don't have lots of slots for warframes so you farming them, level and sell. Now you can at least have something useful from it, not just a few credits (10k iirc). But still, at MR8 it's too overwhelming. For me the point of MR system is to look forward to unlock cool stuff, get new upgrades etc. so you feel progress and meaning for every MR you going through, when you go higher you unlock more complex and strong mechanics (liches for example should be MR locked). Sorry for my english it's not my native language.

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1 minute ago, Sahansral said:

Well, not easy to rework 35 abilitites to make them competitive with the best 6 with the deadline coming nearer and nearer and having all available ressources bount to new content...

i agree, but they should at least try. those abilities have been a problem for years, this is nothing new. making the good abilities less good, wont fix the problem. you could nerf roar to a cap of 50% and people would still pick it above desiccation or terrify.

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1 minute ago, Nirau said:

While i'm mostly disagree with the latest changes, i think it's good for new players when you don't have lots of slots for warframes so you farming them, level and sell. Now you can at least have something useful from it, not just a few credits (10k iirc). But still, at MR8 it's too overwhelming. For me the point of MR system is to look forward to unlock cool stuff, get new upgrades etc. so you feel progress and meaning for every MR you going through, when you go higher you unlock more complex and strong mechanics (liches for example should be MR locked). Sorry for my english it's not my native language.

this isnt a good thing for new players, the problem of the slot is that it requires Plat to buy, you dont fix a mistake with another mistake. warframes should be kept, not sold. being forced to sell because the game wants your money is NOT a good thing. and its actually one of the things that pisses people off enough to leave the game.

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At the beginning i was really hyped for this update, but after all these changes and most likely more upcoming, my expectations are going down. Personaly i think the MR prerequisite was quite low even on 15, but i kind of accepted it. Now it has been downed to 8, it's like a joke. Literaly any player can get to MR8 potentialy in 8 days, because of the 24h MR rank up cooldowns. I thought that this update will be something for players on low MR to work for, but now it's just another thing for new players to find in game and get bored because of high drain onto resources. Nerf or change skills in this system, it's not like they are that good to begin with, but please, keep something in-game to make it worth exping things.

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I haven’t been really excited about this update like everybody else here so I am not upset about the news either, but.....I think DE seriously needs to learn that showing something you can’t promise is not a good idea.

I know Warframe is and has been open beta. However,  in reality people are investing their real time and money like all the other games and you can’t fawn on that status forever.

One more thing I’m worried about is the credibility of the Tennocon,

Last year we were super hyped about the Railjack, but had to face the reality that majority of the presentation was not in the actual game. (It still isn’t by the way.)

The magnitude is different this time, but if you are not that sure about your product’s delivery, I don’t think it’s a good idea to claim you can deliver in the first place.

Edited by (NSW)DSiRy
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On 2020-08-12 at 7:27 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

We consider this a customization system for very experienced Warframe players (Mastery Rank 15 8 Prerequisite).

Very experienced at mr 8, yes makes sense. 🤪

I'd have loved to see the mr 15 cap increased even further as this entire system is a huge investment and should be treated as a late game feature. Why should someone that has ~1 week of playtime reach such a powerful system? It'll trivialise everything even more, and now even brand new players can reach something so busted.

The nerfs to those abilities make perfect sense, I'm glad you at least realised it.

Edited by Tamatu
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Wow... i haven't posted in a long while on the forums. This recent... "fix" to the helminth system definitely pushed me to write this... And I'm not talking about the power 'nerfs/balances.' 

But Rather This....
We have also changed the Mastery Rank Prerequisite of the Helminth Segment to 8 (was 15)
 ...literally grinds my gear!!!

For once i actually felt and believed DE was finally separating and categorizing new player content vs end game content -- starting with Steel-Path  + Helminth System. But nope...another let down.  This may not seem like a big deal for alot of (newer) folks.. but for a 6 year, passionate, veteran of this game....it is.

I have no problem with new players, I welcome and even help them. What I have a problem with is identifying WTF is end game in warframe!?! 

My guess, for this disappointment, is probably due to the fact not many high MR's are playing the game enough to merit profit margins or contribute to high concurrent player base (on release).  Resolve?!  Open it up to newer players (adjust bit later)! Yay!   😡   Business first ima right?!  anyways I'm done ranting.  idk why i hyped myself for this. i normally don't as it spares me from what would be disappointing nerfs or balances or changes to hyped contents.  

Word of advise for ALL new players,
"If it's too good to be true... you are right...It probably is."

Word of advise for ALL experienced players,
"Never get TOO HYPED..."  (...it can be a really painful, disappointing emotional roller coaster...)

Edited by -Edrick-
Im never this negative...but this 'update' earned it. I hope they revert it back!
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From an experienced player:

This is barely going to change endgame if it were implemented in it's original proposal. If the players want to, they can do broken stuff with or without this new system. All nerfing them does is give us slightly less dps... which is futile at this point. 👍

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Subsumed"spectre could function infested for 24 hours duration can be bothersome without any rewarding features for combat, going further the pets and ship are absurd rightnow so a low MR should be great to get players interested in new content until rework pushes out new bounties and planet updates, the OP room is large i hope we can have some new decorations and spreading plants and life across the other rooms without investing in platinum i can just say gardening and getting some scientific servants would put ordis to good use, excavations, and other NPC items like grukdul to use in the ship, icefloors, environments atmospheres to unlock will make each helmith and orbiter more unique to feature something like the grocery stores have in the vegetable areas misting water and flickery lightbulbs, occasional rumble of a meteorshower, and music change would be good for players to earn affinity in different ways like MMO-rpg since most players go fashion frame after they get to MR7

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So.

A feature intended for Veterans and Somewhat invested players (Mr 15 or above). Has for some bizarre panic reason been N E R F E D, Like come on DE, It's not even funny anymore

Now you nerf something that isn't even out yet? Honestly i don't see what you thought was bad about some of the abilities, like you said Rhino's roar could only be replaced on Warframes that already Have a Damage boost ability and not used at the same time with others at all "Special case", so what gives with the nerf here? And then you lower the Helminth Consuming room to Mr8? I'm a clan leader, and believe me, I have plenty experience that most people at mr8 barely know a lot of the game content, hardly eidolons, most don't have millions of varied resources, a lot are unsure what weapons are strong, Usually only have 1/2 Riven Mods, just starting to test the water with Sorties.                                                                                                                                                                  So why are you making the new Helminth chair update New player "friendly" reducing it to Mr8, again, why always new player friendly? So many people in my clan have gone from Excitement to "Meh" not largely because of the nerf, but moreso the reduced Mr 15 change to Mr 8, that Exclusivity for playing the game more and being rewarded for it is gone again before it even existed. Well done DE 😞 

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On 2020-08-12 at 12:27 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

 

AUGUST 19TH UPDATE:

Greetings, Tenno!

The launch of Heart of Deimos grows near, and we have some Helminth updates since we last posted! Below are 2 parts of updated/clarifying information that touches both Infused Warframe Abilities and the Helminth Segment acquisition.  

PART 1 - Changes to select Infused Warframe Abilities

Please keep in mind we’re still testing/playing around with the values for each, hence why the values are not present below:

The following only apply to Infused Warframe Abilities:

Rhino - Roar
Diminished Damage increase

Mirage - Eclipse
Diminished Damage increase and cap Damage Reduction 

Valkyr - Warcry
Attack speed increase reduced

Protea - Dispenser
Duration reduced

Nidus - Larva
Radius reduced

Wukong - Defy
Armor capped


Why do these Infused Warframe Abilities have these rules?
It was apparent in player feedback and play testing that these Infused Warframe Abilities had the potential to be the overwhelming choice; which is not ideal. Instead of changing the Ability outright due to those concerns, we decided to give them slight rules when Infused.

 

And just like that you guys just completely destroyed your update. I have No longer any desire to take part in the farm fest just for gimped abilities after I farmed SEVERAL of the HARDEST WARFRAME FARMS IN THE GAME specifically to take advantage of this system. All the other abilities you listed where trash. You know it. we know it, and you just gimped the only abilities worth a crap. 

 

Do you guys hate us? Do you hate fun??! Do you actively hate your own game? I'm actually being somewhat serious now because design choices like this are just completely counterproductive to enticing players to play this update. If it goes live with those nerfs im NOT BOTHERING. Why do you continually make choices that just RIPS the wind out of our sails?

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On your edit you forgot to erase the "customization system for very experienced Warframe players", because MR 8?! Really?! I'm glad i always have low expectations to not be disappointed, but congratulations, you've done it.

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14 minutes ago, Sahansral said:

How could a buff to Ice Wave look like so that anyone would consider taking it over roar?

reduces enemy resistance by 150%. You know how resist works. negative resistance is a damage bonus.

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On 2020-08-12 at 12:27 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

It was apparent in player feedback and play testing that these Infused Warframe Abilities had the potential to be the overwhelming choice; which is not ideal. Instead of changing the Ability outright due to those concerns, we decided to give them slight rules when Infused.

 

On 2020-08-12 at 12:27 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

(Mastery Rank 15 8 Prerequisite)

You know... I was genuinely excited. 

There goes all my excitement For this system.  

Just like primary kitguns, what we think we are going to get and the watered down trash we get is very different.

Quick question... 

Why does everything have to be For new players?  They can unlock Steel Path At MR 8.  They can unlock Helminth at MR 8.  MR 8 takes 8 days or maybe two weeks iF you're casual.

Why do we keep catering to the lowest common denominator?

One oF the chieF problems the game has is because players check out once they have no more content... there is nothing specific to work towards or look Forward too...

This is yet another example oF BAD direction.  I gotta say, I'm glad I'm remained skeptical.  I was dangerously close to Saying you guys were starting to earn back some oF the good will you burned last year in the never ending content drought and what updates did launch were terrible at release.

You were so close DE...

Now this is just another time synch, not any sort of meaningful progression. 

PRO TIP: PLAYERS CHECK OUT BECAUSE THEY HAVE NOTHING TO LOOK FORWARD TO AND WORK TOWARDS.

Put me down as being staunchly against all of this and I'll be very surprised if this isn't another meaningless grind on arrival.

Seriously, NEW PLAYERS HAVE 3000 hours of content... when is there content For advanced players DE?  Steel path wasn't it.  MR 8 is all you need and steel path is a joke in regards to "hard mode" challenge.

New players are constantly complaining about being overwhelmed because they have too much to do and no direction and you rely on us to Fix that For you and train them up and keep them invested in the game and never give us content For advanced players... WHEN DE?  WHEN?!?!?!

Pretty sure the answer is never iF we're being honest.

I am so incredibly disappointed personally with the devs at these choices.  That's not an attack, that's a substantial grievance as Feedback. 2019 seems to have taught them NOTHING.  This makes me Feel disgusted.

Edited by Klokwerkaos
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On 2020-08-12 at 1:27 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

THE HELMINTH: DEV WORKSHOP.

Who is this for?
We consider this a customization system for very experienced Warframe players (Mastery Rank 15 8 Prerequisite). We do not intend to let newer players unlock this system. We intentionally placed the Segment deep into progression to ensure only experienced players could access the Segment and begin their journey with Helminth.

I'm sorry... but you had the perfect opportunity to get more playtime out of your player base and not only did you bury the disgrace of what it means to be a high MR deeper than what it is, you also called MR 8 "Very Experienced". Are You scared to lock anything higher than MR 16? (current cap for rivens there's still no reason to go above mr 16.) completely missed opportunity.

Sure this makes newer players miss out, but do you know whats healthy for a game? Grind, Dedication. Wanting to Achieve and earn. Other than flexing rights theres no reason to push 20+ MR why not make things higher MR requirement?

Speaking of MR requirement. it takes 8 days to hit MR 8 if you really want to, isn't hard (cus I know there will be crybaby white knights out there arguing otherwise) unless you're someone who really Doesn't care. which in my eyes, means you shouldn't have access to helmith then, why should lazy people get catered to?

Also, I'm curious to see what gets nerfed in the future. I have bags of popcorn sitting in my cabinet ready to bake for when things pop off and you swipe peoples hard earned progress from underneath their feet.

P.S- I hate to sound so negative, because I do play the game alot. but it really doesn't look good moving forward in terms of game lifespan. Where are our raids? where are enemies with actual mechanics? (jakal was a good start) so many missed opportunities. 😞

Edited by --Aegis--Cody
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13 minutes ago, Sahansral said:

Well, not easy to rework 35 abilitites to make them competitive with the best 6 with the deadline coming nearer and nearer and having all available ressources bount to new content...

Nobody asks to make weak abilities strong now. The developers will have an infinite amount of time after the helminth is implemented.

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