The Helminth: Dev Workshop

[selig_fay]

1 minute ago, Sahansral said:

Well, everyone who expects the system to offer real choice, instead only 6 out of 45?

They say this because there is no confirmation that this will change in the future. We may all be worried about this, but nerfing actual abilities may provide no choice. 

[SpentCasings]

2 minutes ago, DeusTurbo said:

Oh wow, it's almost like ripline isn't even in the ability pool... Decoy however, could be improved. And I act like the effect can't be forseen because IT CAN'T. Like I already said before, I would choose Frost's Ice Wave over all the other choices for some warframes. I would also choose stuff like Chroma's Elemental Ward over all the other options for some warframes. This system was supposed to be powerful and for the upper echalons of players. Every ability in the pool can be buffed to be a competetive option. To act like this isn't true demonstrates laziness and a lack of imagination. 

I was actually gonna chuck his elemental ward on valkyr in place of her 3. since one of her issues is the lack of RAW hp vs high end enemies. her 3 is completly useless to me so it was gonna go there. 

[Elric14]

DE what have you done ? already nerfing a system that not there yet, we cant know if this need a nerf before is out , i was very interrested and exited by this new system and from the beginning it was not complete in my opinion, just one ability come on, we need the first three ability to be subsumed and put 3 different ability on the same warframe, i was already dreaming of making a excalibur and valkyr much better by adding 1 or two abilities of wukong because i like to play solo too and having a doppleganger of my warframe is always helpfull in protection mission,

you think defy is too op change the abilities give us the mist or the doppleganger, but dont nerf it what the point to change the ability of one warframe by the minor version of another warframe , if it's like that no one gonna use the helminth system because is pointless even the last ability used is much helpfull than an ability nerfed, i prefer to keep my abilities like they are, than having a minor shock abilities from volt

and yest the rank was fine like it was why changing it, make your update live leave us testing it like it was at the beginning and after we can suggest you to nerf this or change that, but we cant know for sure if it's need to be nerfed without playing it in the first place, dont listen to people suggestions for something that not come out yet, they dont know what they are talking about because they have not testing it already

sorry but i'm dissapointed i was so happy by this announcement so it's make me sad to see that changing already, hope you listen to players concern and react because we love this game so much, this is the greatest community i ever see in a game, no saltyness like other gaming community

[Dulran]

On 2020-08-12 at 7:27 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

It was apparent in player feedback and play testing that these Infused Warframe Abilities had the potential to be the overwhelming choice; which is not ideal. Instead of changing the Ability outright due to those concerns, we decided to give them slight rules when Infused.

Some of them are an overwhelming choice not because they're that good but because the other choices just aren't. A good choice is one where I can't decide which I'll pick, not one where everything is just equally bad. There are obviously still very strong choices, but I'd prefer it if the abilities on the terrible end would receive some well deserved love instead of just removing the stronger ones.

[(XBOX)RAG is NAROK]

If your going to reduce the radius of Larva, an ability acquired from a warframe that people are probably going to spend play on instead of farming, you should probably mention by how much.

That way people don't pay the plat, subsume their Nidus and say, "wow, that was a waste of plat."

There goes my tentacle witch wisp idea. I might end up using something else. 

[RivaAurelius]

Just now, SpentCasings said:

I was actually gonna chuck his elemental ward on valkyr in place of her 2. since one of her issues is the lack of RAW hp vs high end enemies. her 3 is completly useless to me so it was gonna go there. 

Exactly! Imagine How good a fire/ice elemental ward on a frame like Valkyr would be! Either that or a fire/ice elemental ward on another tanky frame like Inaros! People act like these 6 abilities are the only good ones and should be nerfed, but there are other good options. The poorer options should be buffed instead. 

[bibmobello]

You they don't understand that many MR16+ players are fkn bored to play level 20 stuff. They put SP levels and now should i play level 20 enemies again?!?!?

Some abilities are pretty broken, you can just use Saryn and cloak arrow to make target defence a joke, solo, just pressing 2 buttons.

Many other frames have just trash abilities, inaros 2, chroma 1, noise arrow and many others are just useless.

[RivaAurelius]

1 minute ago, bibmobello said:

I you they don't understand that many MR16+ players are fkn bored to play level 20 stuff. They put SP levels and now should i play level 20 enemies again?!?!?

Some abilities are pretty broken, you can just use Saryn and cloak arrow to make target defence a joke, solo, just pressing 2 buttons.

Literally build vauban for max range and duration. Now you can make target defence a joke by holding down one button. 

[SpentCasings]

1 minute ago, Dulran said:

Some of them are an overwhelming choice not because they're that good but because the other choices just aren't. A good choice is one where I can't decide which I'll pick, not one where everything is just equally bad. There are obviously still very strong choices, but I'd prefer it if the abilities on the terrible end would receive some well deserved love instead of just removing the stronger ones.

THIS....like some damage reduction abilities would have been GREAT!!!

 

No, Nova's stupid stars dont count. I'm not running negative range to keep the particles on my frame. Nezha's 3 or Mesa's shatter shields instead...Trinity's 3 instead of her crappy 1 that nobody uses....SO MANY OTHER CHOICES but they overwhelmingly chose THE POOREST abilities, and the few that weren't get nerfed. 

[selig_fay]

2 minutes ago, bibmobello said:

Some ability are pretty broken, you can just use Saryn and cloak arrow to make target defence a joke,solo. just pressing 2 buttons.

Or you can just use saryn. Invisibility no longer works on def objects.

[LixSin]

1 hour ago, Huggalump said:

That's probably good. They should be nerfed so they're not the obvious choice, but still kept strong enough so that they're a good choice. 

That's impossible. As long as they're good enough to still be usable, they will be the obvious choice. If they will be nerfed so far that they will not be the obvious choice, they will be unusable.

[SpentCasings]

3 minutes ago, (XB1)RAG is NAROK said:

If your going to reduce the radius of Larva, an ability acquired from a warframe that people are probably going to spend play on instead of farming, you should probably mention by how much.

That way people don't pay the plat, subsume their Nidus and say, "wow, that was a waste of plat."

There goes my tentacle witch wisp idea. I might end up using something else. 

YOU TELLING ME. I FREAKING FARMED HIM THE HARD WAY. I am absolutely LIVID right now....

I forma'd my Exergis because i was going to do some Tentacle/Mag bubble/Exergis  combos that would have been absolutely HILAROUS and they just freaking Ruin my fun. 

[Keyhound]

2 minutes ago, DeusTurbo said:

Oh wow, it's almost like ripline isn't even in the ability pool... Decoy however, could be improved. And I act like the effect can't be forseen because IT CAN'T. Like I already said before, I would choose Frost's Ice Wave over all the other choices for some warframes. I would also choose stuff like Chroma's Elemental Ward over all the other options for some warframes. This system was supposed to be powerful and for the upper echalons of players. Every ability in the pool can be buffed to be a competetive option. To act like this isn't true demonstrates laziness and a lack of imagination. 

exactly, abilities dont need to be better than everything else to be picked, some frames need survivability, others CC, others still could use more dmg. to some, smite infusion will be better than roar. to others, roar will be almost useless due to the limit.

the thing is, roar will be the better choice, because abilities that could be chosen offers no real utility. why would you use tempest barrage? it kinda does cc, and it kinda spreads corrosive, but neither is done well. why would people pick decoy when molt is the better choice? why desiccation when radial blind the same but better in almost every way(well, besides the borderline joke healing that cant even be buffed).

and while yeah, they wouldnt be able to buff everything, they could start reworking some of them... like, you know, they did with well of life and airburst(which still sucks because they were afraid it would somehow become overpowered... seriously WTF DE?)

[bibmobello]

Just now, selig_fay said:

Or you can just use sarin. Invisibility no longer works on def objects.

It works on human targets.

[sitfesz]

17 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

we decided to give them slight rules when Infused.

That's an odd way to say nerf.

Pre-nerfing Larva lol, it already requires an augment mod to work properly.

[phantasmalWordsmith]

The Ability nerfs feel a bit undeserved truth be told. Like I get it you want to encourage variety but this feels like one of those over-corrections that just ruins the ability.

Defy getting reduced feels especially bad. 'Frames like Banshee, Nyx, so on would really benefit from having access to that kind of armour to help them survive which is what was really hurting them as options.

Like if these abilities were going to be "too good" I'd have rather gotten different abilities so instead of Defy we could've gotten Cloud Walker or hell, nothing at all. Having Nerfed abilities just feels bad but I'm still gonna use them not because they're "too good" but because a lot of Warframes really need that kind of help to let them really shine.

This whole Chrysalis system started as really interesting because yeah, we knew right away there were going to be amazing combos and now I'm left feeling... Deflated.

[selig_fay]

1 minute ago, SpentCasings said:

Trinity's 3 instead of her crappy 1 that nobody uses..

Hey. I am nobody. Nice to meet you. I think you need to learn more about the ability and augment because it is more effective than a dispenser.

[Shidonia]

I was planning to improve old warframes like nekros or valkyr to be thematically more dependable in missions like an ability from hildryn to mag, harrow's condemn and blood altar of garuda to nekros khora's ensnare to valkyr and nezha's firewalker to ember... I never had my eyes on abilities like Roar or Eclipse. However seeing these abilities get a nerf before a release is making me question to purpose of this system. If you lock it behind MR 16+ it won't cause any game breaking imbalance issues cause we will at that point already own many warframes and resources and playing around and experimenting will be just for fun. Idk DE pls also give us the ability to choose of two warframes at the same time because this ain't it

[SpentCasings]

Just now, selig_fay said:

Hey. I am nobody. Nice to meet you. I think you need to learn more about the ability and augment because it is more effective than a dispenser.

Hi nobody I'm Trinity's 4, which is superior in every way and doesnt take up an mod slot to CRAP on you. How ya doing?

[bibmobello]

3 minutes ago, phantasmalWordsmith said:

The Ability nerfs feel a bit undeserved truth be told. Like I get it you want to encourage variety but this feels like one of those over-corrections that just ruins the ability.

Defy getting reduced feels especially bad. 'Frames like Banshee, Nyx, so on would really benefit from having access to that kind of armour to help them survive which is what was really hurting them as options.

Like if these abilities were going to be "too good" I'd have rather gotten different abilities so instead of Defy we could've gotten Cloud Walker or hell, nothing at all. Having Nerfed abilities just feels bad but I'm still gonna use them not because they're "too good" but because a lot of Warframes really need that kind of help to let them really shine.

This whole Chrysalis system started as really interesting because yeah, we knew right away there were going to be amazing combos and now I'm left feeling... Deflated.

Dude nyx is just invincible, probably the most invincible among frames.... Banshee can stop half SP hydron room for almost 1 minute  without a potato, and half mods(without energy flow)...

[RivaAurelius]

7 minutes ago, Keyhound said:

exactly, abilities dont need to be better than everything else to be picked, some frames need survivability, others CC, others still could use more dmg. to some, smite infusion will be better than roar. to others, roar will be almost useless due to the limit.

the thing is, roar will be the better choice, because abilities that could be chosen offers no real utility. why would you use tempest barrage? it kinda does cc, and it kinda spreads corrosive, but neither is done well. why would people pick decoy when molt is the better choice? why desiccation when radial blind the same but better in almost every way(well, besides the borderline joke healing that cant even be buffed).

and while yeah, they wouldnt be able to buff everything, they could start reworking some of them... like, you know, they did with well of life and airburst(which still sucks because they were afraid it would somehow become overpowered... seriously WTF DE?)

I don't even build for Roar when I'm playing Rhino lol 

This is just a lazy move by DE. This is whole system is probably a clever move to dodge the responsibility of reworking the lesser used frames. Loki's decoy has always needed a rework, now would definitely be the time to buff it, but instead DE is lazy and nerfs the abilities they think may be used more. This whole move is lazy and unimaginative and honestly has made me very disappointed with what would have been the biggest thing for warframe since The War Within. 

[selig_fay]

2 minutes ago, SpentCasings said:

Hi nobody I'm Trinity's 4, which is superior in every way and doesnt take up an mod slot to CRAP on you. How ya doing?

Hey. I'm your teammate - a frost who doesn't need your resistance, but who loves orbs of health  for armor.
It all depends on the situation. You play a support frame, but you only think about yourself.

[Shidonia]

9 minutes ago, bibmobello said:

Dude nyx is just invincible, probably the most invincible among frames.... Banshee can stop half SP hydron room for almost 1 minute  without a potato, and half mods...

So does this justify the nerfs? Saying "DUDE this does that you don't know that omg?" ain't helping at all. We can mod our warframes but sharpening some of the edges of a frame is really optional and playstyle dependant. 

[SpentCasings]

2 minutes ago, selig_fay said:

Hey. I'm your teammate - a frost who doesn't need your resistance, but who loves orbs of energy for armor.
It all depends on the situation. You play a support frame, but you only think about yourself.

You have a bubble.

 

You have a 4 augment that gives you a NOPE shield.

 

Trinity is primarily a healer and energy restorer. her 1 is completely useless in that kit. and dont you DARE tell me im selfish on my Trinity, because that ability was getting replaced with roar, and smite for smite infusion for the ABSOLUTE BEST support frame. SO you can so sit in a freaking corner and rethink life. 

 

And if you dont know how to play a frost without some paltry amounts of armor from those drops then you need to rethink your frost too. 

[Keyhound]

11 minutes ago, DeusTurbo said:

Exactly! Imagine How good a fire/ice elemental ward on a frame like Valkyr would be! Either that or a fire/ice elemental ward on another tanky frame like Inaros! People act like these 6 abilities are the only good ones and should be nerfed, but there are other good options. The poorer options should be buffed instead. 

and this is what people are asking for, roar is an amazing ability, probably rhino's best due to its versatility. and that alone is a reason to make it one of the best picks to be subsumed... what doesnt help is when they choices are between roar and stuff like decoy... and ability that even people playing loki wont use 99% of the case.
yeah there are other good choices... but why not take this and buff the ones people are less likely to pick, instead of nerfing the ones everyone will choose no matter how neutered DE tries to nerf it.