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Just now, (NSW)Lorkhan said:

Trinity is over-rated now. Wisp is much better is all ways

I dont have to mote-hump and can stay mobile. She will always have a place. And was going to have a damage buff but if this keeps going south im not bothering. 

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1 minute ago, selig_fay said:

I'm not interested in eidolons after the scarlet spear.

belive it or not, some people still enjoy fighting them, even if the rewards are borderline pointless after SS. i mean, people still buy the stuff, so there is that...

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Is the point of warframe not to become extremely powerful and godlike?

I understand some of the nerfs, not all of them but the main ones, I don't see why larva needed to be nerfed or Protea's Dispensary, some of these seem unnecessary, however I think the issue is not the power and strength of those abilities, it's the lack of usefulness for all the other abilities that are allowed to be subsumed. I think that changing the useless abilities would be more logical than straight up nerfing the current, good, viable ones.

If you can't buff all of the worse abilities then just give us different ones to subsume.

Edited by Pulsar_Prime
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1 minute ago, SpentCasings said:

Does that not require a specific mod to take advantage of? A mod that an armored/tank build PROBABLY wont be using? You're trying to argue a far nice case for a plainly inferior ability that does not normally synergise with her kit.

If I'm playing a squishy im probably not using that either since Adaptation is a thing....Also...armor is a DAMAGE REDUCTION/RESISTANCE. unless you are doing some weird armor stack to pop a stronger bubble...you're just better off using her dam 4 for a 70% resist. 

Right now for trinity, this is the best ability to heal objects (yes, I know, but this is a thing). Moreover, it is functional for the hp tank of a trinity even with a large resist (this is a lot of health regeneration even if you do not deal damage).

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19 minutes ago, LixSin said:

That's impossible. As long as they're good enough to still be usable, they will be the obvious choice. If they will be nerfed so far that they will not be the obvious choice, they will be unusable.

Even before the nerfs, I was already thinking about using a lot of different abilities on different builds. 

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Why the nerfs they were completely unnessary  with the MR15 requirement. What if as your MR increases you get closer to the original ability? Or just cap the abilities at ~200% power strength. And FFS leave the MR requirement at 15

Edited by brunoswaag04
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4 minutes ago, Keyhound said:

belive it or not, some people still enjoy fighting them, even if the rewards are borderline pointless after SS. i mean, people still buy the stuff, so there is that...

This is already a situation. Even if the abilities have the same strength, they will have different strengths when placed in a special situation. Larva vs. Roar. The Larva is useful against groups of enemies, while it is not useful against boss. On the other hand, a larva is many times more useful than a roar against groups of enemies.

Edited by selig_fay
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17 hours ago, Myscho said:

Enough players complaining happend

that never helped anything, you know how hard people have been complaining to make this game better, and it falls on deaf ears every time? EVERY TIME?

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2 minutes ago, selig_fay said:

Right now for trinity, this is the best ability to heal objects (yes, I know, but this is a thing). Moreover, it is functional for the hp tank of a trinity even with a large resist (this is a lot of health regeneration even if you do not deal damage).

if I remember correctly, unless its been nerfed while i was away her 4 still fully heals objectives. I just farmed harrow. It still healed the Kavor.  Your 4 fully heals you so "health regeneration" is unnecessary. if you are taking lots of damage, your 3 combined with your 4 reduces that to nearly NOTHING, and if you are a good boy, you are playing a high duration trinity, so your other abilities besides energy vampire are useful. None of what you said makes any sense. Toss in a quick thinking and the ability to produce energy on tap makes my Trinity basically unkillable if i'm paying attention. She just needed more damage. 

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I am really disappointed in these nerfs to the Helminth System. If a particular ability is more preferential to others would not an approach to resolve the issue be proposing different abilities be infusable from other warframes? Nerfing brings the value of the system down and makes it that much less appealing. Mind you, this doesn't mean the system will have no value; however, a stronger system would encourage the player base to change long established playstyles and add more diversity.

 

That stated, if the goal of the Helminth System was to add a little diversity to the game and not to encourage players to play warframes they currently don't, or encourage them to approach the game differently, then I suppose these nerfs to the system are fine. They make the system fall short of what I hoped for; however, it beats a blank.

Edited by (NSW)ShadowTrain
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Just now, SpentCasings said:

I remember correctly, unless its been nerfed while i was away her 4 still fully heals objectives. I just farmed harrow. It still healed the Kavor.  Your 4 fully heals you so "health regeneration" is unnecessary. if you are taking lots of damage, your 3 combined with your 4 reduces that to nearly NOTHING, and if you are a good boy, you are playing a high duration trinity, so your other abilities besides energy vampire are useful. None of what you said makes any sense. Toss in a quick thinking and the ability to produce energy on tap makes my Trinity basically unkillable if i'm paying attention. She just needed more damage. 

The point is that you can brutally spam 4, or spam 1 + 4 and not worry about anything for the next 20 seconds.

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I was super hopeful when they mentioned they were buffing some of the weaker Helminth abilities. Then pretty sad when they only kind of buffed 3 abilities... they just nerfed 6 abilities. 

Edited by Arthegall
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Just now, selig_fay said:

The point is that you can brutally spam 4, or spam 1 + 4 and not worry about anything for the next 20 seconds.

I dont have to brutally spam 4

 

I have 70%+ damage resistance after I use it....anything after that dies to gunfire or a sword afterwards....do you just stand int he middle of rooms and let things shoot you or are you being mobile?

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On 2020-08-12 at 12:27 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:


Who is this for?
We consider this a customization system for very experienced Warframe players (Mastery Rank 15 8 Prerequisite). We do not intend to let newer players unlock this system. We intentionally placed the Segment deep into progression to ensure only experienced players could access the Segment and begin their journey with Helminth.

 

So that was a lie for this is for high level player

 

most of my friends that are MR8 have 3 or 4 warframe 

 

most of my friends that are MR15+ have mostly all warfame

 

DE change it back we where happy that is was high level content there is too much stuff of the new player in is that. New player don't know what to do in is game because of you are adding alot of stuff for them. This also make new players just not play the game.

 

So please DE for the community change it back!  

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Setting aside the horrible decision to nerf the subsumed abilities (which is classic DE by this point), speaking of the reduction in MR for being able to use this feature is such a bad idea.

This feature involves literally destroying your warframes and tinkering and mixing and matching. That kind of feature requires a very deep understanding of warframe abilities and their synergy with other abilities. Players with MR8 are not even "supposed" to have cleared star chart (speedrunners and power levelers aside). They shouldnt/wont even be in possession of frames like Saryn, Nidus, Harrow, etc, let alone understand the deeper intricacies of many of the even starter frames. It comes through experience. At MR8 that experience is severely lacking. Even MR15 was a bit low for such a feature I'd have said. 20+ would be more fitting.

I don't know what prompted this change in the MR requirement but I sure as hell hope it has nothing to do with making people buy warframes with plat. I usually trust DE with not being greedy in a monetary sense, but I legit do not see a plausible reason otherwise to let low MR players indulge in this kind of activity.

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If there were other good options for subsumed abilities then I think there would be a good amount of people using other abilities that aren't roar or eclipse, and they wouldn't be the only things people pick, perhaps reconsider some of the other abilities that we are being given?

Edited by Pulsar_Prime
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Just now, SpentCasings said:

I have 70%+ damage resistance after I use it....anything after that dies to gunfire or a sword afterwards....do you just stand int he middle of rooms and let things shoot you or are you being mobile?

Yes, when I'm too lazy to move. On the other hand, it does not change the fact that it is functional, for example when you hack into the console.

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hace 7 horas, trst dijo:

Every single time they've made changes shortly after release we get every other person that day one'd the content crawl out of the woodwork demanding compensations and refunds. And every time they make them long after we somehow get the exact same complaints and demands with no justified reasons.

The system was announced multiple times as being subject to change and it got changed. It shouldn't be surprising that people manage to still get upset considering how this community is yet it still manages to be.

And yes as far as I'm concerned the changes are fully justified and welcomed. The only thing I question is why the MR restriction was lowered as while I understand their reasoning I still don't believe it wise to allow "early" players to have access to such a system. Yet we'll still get players with 1k+ hours into the game complaining that they donated a frame without knowing that it would be lost or that they somehow used the one with all their Forma so I guess it doesn't matter what the restriction is.

I agree, the only part that really dissapoints me is the lowered MR requirement, 8 is way too low for new players to access that. Even more, they ae going to feel miserable farming some of the normal frames at that point just to use them for the Helmith, even if only to clear a WF slot. If MR15 was too high, why to use the Arca Plasmor as a reference? That one is MR10, move the MR to something like that and presto... if I remember correctly even the Ayatan stars autoinstall was from MR 10 onwards. My personal choice would been MR12.

EDIT: Also, being somebody that deals with people learning to analyze astronomy data and make decisions based in their previous experiences.... MR8 is way too early for new players to know what they are really doing there.

Edited by KikuVasNormandy
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Just now, selig_fay said:

Yes, when I'm too lazy to move. On the other hand, it does not change the fact that it is functional, for example when you hack into the console.

ok, the rest of us Move when we play, and I press 3 when i hack consoles so i'm not dying. The skill is fairly useless and for the average player does not fit in the kit because 4. Also you need an augment to make it work better.. The one niche example requires TWO mods to work and one your other allies have to actively be using in order for it to have an effect. 

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18 minutes ago, (NSW)Lorkhan said:

Trinity is over-rated now. Wisp is much better is all ways

trinity ha a 2 totally broken with the augmented mod, she can kill any enemy at every level in less than a second, gets over shields continuously and unlimited energy.

Edited by bibmobello
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I... really don't get the hate on DE for nerfing meta before it even happens.
If the community had more brain cells than haha Roar haha Larva they wouldn't be nerfed. DE realized just from feedback that they'd be generating yet another uninspired, dull, braindead meta.
So they nerfed it, and I'm glad they did
Just shows how much interest and knowledge most people have of Warframes outside of this current disgusting meta.
Note how a lot of good abilities remain untouched, simply because little to no people were hyped for them. Of course DE won't give Roar 200% to all warframes, that was pretty obvious.
Sometimes the Warframe community simply goes completely braindead and then gets disappointed at DE, when their decisions were to be expected.
On the topic of the MR lowering to 8, don't forget that we're getting new consoles this year, and a lot of veterans might be interested in starting over.
That is all. Now stop crying about Roar and put something actually useful on your Warframes. There's 43 abilities + the Helminth ones and y'all are crying about 4 or 5. Smh my head
All these flavors and you chose to be salty

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Just now, (NSW)Lorkhan said:

You do realise that Trintity 1 sucks... it doesnt even work with her other power. It only has nich uses! Her whole kit works excepté for that 1 S#&$ty power

which is why most people will drop it and swap it for something better.

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For starters yes i know, i know... ive set the expectations for this post with the title and people will be ready to defend them selfs.
This is fair guys!! Im not here to argue against you im here as i feel our arguments are not thourght through well enough and the path to be taken needs to be considered. That said i also get the disapointment. 

The abilitiy changes are bit or maybe very disapointing as ones been looking forward to using it. Heck lava was just a beast choice for me but now because im running low range builds it might not work for me even half as well. The mr changes i also get as it feels like a nod was given to players of higher ranks as ensurance that hey look you may not feel heard but heres content we give with your interests in mind specifically. 

When that is said however for this part in particular i need to be a little rough...Give DE some wiggle room people.... DE needs to be able to make changes. If they cant change in develupment based on new information then they aint even allowed to take into account feedback and course correct. Its dammed if they do dammed if they dont. They litteraly gave the responce that it was due to abilities being an overwhealmingly strong choice compared to others thus limiting options not encouraging experimentation. Its disapointing yes when they have to do it but the alternative is that DE cant announce anything until their product and all its itterations is final. Thats not quite ideal either..

The main debate though i must say i understand to the bottom of my hart.

MR changes i sort of get it from both sides here and i get the desire for being listend to as players heavily invested in warframe. The argument however tgat is used i feel leaves a lot to be desired as its honnestly setting a dangorous precedent and might not be what we need.

The argument is that DE finally adds content with more experienced players in mind and that making advanced systems like this as readily accessible as they will be is a big problem for players getting overwhelmed by choice as well as dilute the spectrum of people that can make demands for said content. While this is indeed true a hard lock i feel is a rather counter productive idea and precident to set for multiple reasons. Fx Steel path is tecnically end game content even if it does not have the seal of veterans only its stil content that requires understanding and arsenal to enter and suceed in. On top you can also bring your lower rank friends if they need resources. win win.

Helminth i feel is rather similar in this chase with being soft locked as It Will most likely require a ton of exotic resources.  Basically i guess that even if the low mastery rank entry is there, Allowing players to dabble a bit the extent they can dabble will be severely limited compared to a older player and their stock piles. Its a more soft lock that allows people that are hype but not high enough mr to not have to wait days before getting to it but also stil not have full access.

 

Edited by JmDaFuz
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