The Helminth: Dev Workshop

[Sahansral]

vor 13 Minuten schrieb Keyhound:

the nerf doesnt fix anything, people will still pick those abilities above most others due to how bad they are. they could literally cap roar at 50 or even 25% and it still would be a nobrainer above well of life or desiccation or decoy.

nerfing it because people will pick it more makes no sense when it wont change the fact people will pick it more...

If they nerf those 6 hard enough, at least we will have to evaluate the personal optimal best ability among the 20 good abilitites in the pool for every frame loadout.
I'm looking forward to making tough choices, planning carefully and crunching numbers instead of lazily choosing the nobrainer cookie-cutter option (which we already have too many in the game).
There some bad skills in the pool. Nothing but a rework will save them. But I prefer having a real choice amoing 20 roughly equal options over having no real choice at all.

[bibmobello]

2 minutes ago, (XB1)Vaktalor said:

They said that abilities were subject to change at least that was the impression given on the post. They said nothing about ability stats being changed
Before the list of abilities show it said

"The following table outlines the current Ability a given Warframe will provide on the Subsume action. This is subject to change before launch."

I would be a bit dissapointed some of the abilities got changed yes, but my issue is that they are just nerfing the abilities without giving numbers instead of just picking another ability and buff that.

Expect a 50% less damage on Damage buff abilities.

[Keyhound]

1 minute ago, danberhe said:

i don't know why everyone is surprised they nerfed roar and eclipse and somewhat defy.

but the other nerfs are more questionable.

noone is surprised, they are just disapointed. DE made this system to make builds more fluid and fun... they said they would buff weaker abilities to make them better... they changed well of life into a better(but still overall bad) ability, they changed airburst into less of(but still very much) a joke ability.
and then... they nerfed the abilities they knew people would moslty use, not to the point of making them bad, but just so they could say they were worried about balance...

decoy, desiccation, and at least half of the choices are still terrible choices. half of the remaining ones are situational at best, the last few are useable to good... and then there are the top ones that are so good, no amount of nerf will change that...

and they decided to nerf them...

 

[Mewvg2]

Yes, DE, let's nerf the good abilities without addressing why they're the obvious choice. Might it be that most of the other abilities are throwaway trash? Naaah couldn't be.

How about instead of nerfs, ya buff the trash abilities (and maybe even the frames they come from) so they are worth using? That would make things interesting, like many have pointed out. Nerfing Roar won't make it any less of an overwhelming choice when most of the rest of the infusion abilities aren't a choice at all. The same can be said for any other ability getting nerfed. Please stop making kneejerk reactions and look at the reasoning behind why the community likes or dislikes things before you make changes. There are plenty of creators with the knowledge to help, some of which are already known to be under NDA. Use the resources you have before killing the hype for your game's next big release again. I know I don't care about this system anymore, even having farmed most of the frames again. The excitement about an interesting system is gone. It's clear DE won't put in the work to realize its potential.

I feel sorry for @[DE]Megan for having to deliver the news of the nonsensical Xoris nerfs and now this. The company is just making her the mouthpiece for all the bad news, eh? Everyone be nice to her (and the rest of the community team), this mess isn't her (or their) fault. In fact, tweet nice things to them, they could use the pick-me-up with this S#&$storm going on.

[---HattoriIga---]

I am disappointed by this nerf not only i a lot of people are. as I said, I'm going to update this union, I'm going to leave it alone in the dead room.

[JmDaFuz]

7 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Not in this lifetime unfortunately mate but I hear ya 

Would require something radical to change indeed. Given im a bit of a pshycology nerd  however least its worth a try.. 🙂

 

[bibmobello]

1 minute ago, Mewvg2 said:

Yes, DE, let's nerf the good abilities without addressing why they're the obvious choice. Might it be that most of the other abilities are throwaway trash? Naaah couldn't be.

How about instead of nerfs, ya buff the trash abilities (and maybe even the frames they come from) so they are worth using? That would make things interesting, like many have pointed out. Nerfing Roar won't make it any less of an overwhelming choice when most of the rest of the infusion abilities aren't a choice at all. The same can be said for any other ability getting nerfed. Please stop making kneejerk reactions and look at the reasoning behind why the community likes or dislikes things before you make changes. There are plenty of creators with the knowledge to help, some of which are already known to be under NDA. Use the resources you have before killing the hype for your game's next big release again. I know I don't care about this system anymore, even having farmed most of the frames again. The excitement about an interesting system is gone. It's clear DE won't put in the work to realize its potential.

I feel sorry for @[DE]Megan for having to deliver the news of the nonsensical Xoris nerfs and now this. The company is just making her the mouthpiece for all the bad news, eh? Everyone be nice to her (and the rest of the community team), this mess isn't her (or their) fault. In fact, tweet nice things to them, they could use the pick-me-up with this S#&$storm going on.

Excuse me how is  the xoris "nerf"  nonsensical? You were using exalted weapons with a max combo for free

[JimothyStevens]

Why are you so opposed to fun for veteran players in your game DE? I was so excited for this system but it's almost like you want to take all the wind out of your sails. This isn't putting warframe abilities on other frames anymore, because these arbitrary limits are not those warframes abilities.

 

Please be consistent and just commit to something. Either give us a warframe ability transfer system or just remove it.

 

Edit: Also, if anything, you should have increased the MR requirement to 20. Having the ability to accidentally delete a warframe at mr 8 is a terrible idea. Can you imagine how many support tickets you are going to get about this?

[Keyhound]

Just now, bibmobello said:

Excuse me how the xoris "nerf" is nonsensical? You were using exalted weapons with a max combo for free

because you can still do this, just not with the xoris... this didnt fix anything, just made it not work on the xoris.

[(PSN)MYKK678]

5 minutes ago, JmDaFuz said:

For starters yes i know, i know... ive set the expectations for this post with the title and people will be ready to defend them selfs.
This is fair guys!! Im not here to argue against you im here as i feel our arguments are not thourght through well enough and the path to be taken needs to be considered. That said i also get the disapointment. 

The abilitiy changes are bit or maybe very disapointing as ones been looking forward to using it. Heck lava was just a beast choice for me but now because im running low range builds it might not work for me even half as well. The mr changes i also get as it feels like a nod was given to players of higher ranks as ensurance that hey look you may not feel heard but heres content we give with your interests in mind specifically. 

When that is said however...Give DE some wiggle room people.... DE needs to be able to make changes. If they cant change in develupment based on new information then they aint even allowed to take into account feedback and course correct. Its dammed if they do dammed if they dont. They litteraly gave the responce that it was due to abilities being an overwhealmingly strong choice compared to others thus limiting options not encouraging experimentation. Its disapointing yes when they have to do it but the alternative is that DE cant announce anything until their product and all its itterations is final. Thats not quite ideal either..

The main debate though i must say i understand to the bottom of my hart.

MR changes i sort of get it from both sides here and i get the desire for being listend to as players heavily invested in warframe. The argument however tgat is used i feel leaves a lot to be desired as its honnestly setting a dangorous precedent and might not be what we need.

The argument is that DE finally adds content with more experienced players in mind and that making advanced systems like this as readily accessible as they will be is a big problem for players getting overwhelmed by choice as well as dilute the spectrum of people that can make demands for said content. While this is indeed true a hard lock i feel is a rather counter productive idea and precident to set for multiple reasons. Fx Steel path is tecnically end game content even if it does not have the seal of veterans only its stil content that requires understanding and arsenal to enter and suceed in. On top you can also bring your lower rank friends if they need resources. win win.

Helminth i feel is rather similar in this chase with being soft locked as It Will most likely require a ton of exotic resources.  Basically i guess that even if the low mastery rank entry is there, Allowing players to dabble a bit the extent they can dabble will be severely limited compared to a older player and their stock piles. Its a more soft lock that allows people that are hype but not high enough mr to not have to wait days before getting to it but also stil not have full access.

 

I can't see the ability changes being disappointing in the slightest tbh. Even forgetting for a second that DE was clearly going to be playtesting all the powers before release, theres been nothing but "omg Roars gonna be op"  "omg i cant wait to be op with elem ward". Its like sitting in front of someone and saying "omg you have no idea we have a surprise party planned for you". Of course there'd be a reduction, and rightfully so too. The buff powers were ALWAYS going to be too powerful, they were ALWAYS going to be decreased. Who in their right mind would believe they were going to ship as-is lol?

As for the MR change tbh i was happy with the 15 and think it should have stayed. Its not a "hard lock" at all, its a goal for players to set for themselves. A hard lock is releasing essential story for a game through paid DLC, a hard lock is hiding requested characters behind a paywall. This was simply giving players a reason to want to progress to MR15. Or a progression system as its known.

[Mewvg2]

1 minute ago, bibmobello said:

Excuse me how is  the xoris "nerf"  nonsensical? You were using exalted weapons with a max combo for free

Because they said it was too powerful, yet rivens go untouched. It was convenience, not power. I'm not sure how people don't get that.

[SpentCasings]

1 minute ago, PhoenixParadox said:

I... really don't get the hate on DE for nerfing meta before it even happens.
If the community had more brain cells than haha Roar haha Larva they wouldn't be nerfed. DE realized just from feedback that they'd be generating yet another uninspired, dull, braindead meta.
So they nerfed it, and I'm glad they did
Just shows how much interest and knowledge most people have of Warframes outside of this current disgusting meta.
Note how a lot of good abilities remain untouched, simply because little to no people were hyped for them. Of course DE won't give Roar 200% to all warframes, that was pretty obvious.
Sometimes the Warframe community simply goes completely braindead and then gets disappointed at DE, when their decisions were to be expected.
On the topic of the MR lowering to 8, don't forget that we're getting new consoles this year, and a lot of veterans might be interested in starting over.
That is all. Now stop crying about Roar and put something actually useful on your Warframes. There's 43 abilities + the Helminth ones and y'all are crying about 4 or 5. Smh my head
All these flavors and you chose to be salty

Let me translate:

 

I use crappy builds in some self righteous attempted at "fighting the meta" 

[AANGDETO]

il y a 3 minutes, bibmobello a dit :

Excuse me how is  the xoris "nerf"  nonsensical? You were using exalted weapons with a max combo for free

Honestly all exalted weapons should have their own load-out.

Modding your exalted weapons with a riven for another weapon is nonsensical.

[(XBOX)RAG is NAROK]

I think if they buffed the Conductor augment mod that Octavia's bounder could be really fun on other frames (still going to try it on my Nyx in place of her 1, but my point still stands). 

[SpentCasings]

1 minute ago, Mewvg2 said:

Because they said it was too powerful, yet rivens go untouched. It was convenience, not power. I'm not sure how people don't get that.

I wasnt even aware that stat sticks worked like that and had a Kama riven lying around i hadn't thrown out yet. They made me aware of a broken system and removed a slightly less broken part of it. BTW using whip adds combo to my melle weapon so i can just spam 1 all day and wind up with blood red crits after a few minutes without having to do the "occasinally hit things" crap...making the xoris nerf even more dumb. 

[bibmobello]

1 minute ago, AANGDETO said:

Honestly all exalted weapons should have their own load-out.

Modding your exalted weapons with a riven for another weapon is nonsensical.

In fact most of the exalted weapons have been reworked this way in the past. There are a bunch of them that still rely on your melee like Khora, gara and atlas..

[RIKAG]

This was exciting before the nerfs :,D

You should start to balace things with more buffs and less nerfs.

[AANGDETO]

il y a 3 minutes, bibmobello a dit :

In fact most of the exalted weapons have been reworked this way in the past. There are a bunch of them that still rely on your melee like Khora, gara and atlas..

My point exactly, they need to finish the job.

[Ferbsol]

hace 10 minutos, Sahansral dijo:

If they nerf those 6 hard enough, at least we will have to evaluate the personal optimal best ability among the 20 good abilitites in the pool for every frame loadout.
I'm looking forward to making tough choices, planning carefully and crunshing numbers instead of lazily choosing the nobrainer cookie-cutter option (which we already too many in the game).
There some bad skills in the pool. Nothing will but a rework will save them. But I prefer having a real choice amoing 20 roughly equal options over having no real choice at all.

No matter how hard they nerf them they are gonna be better unless they make them worthless, also S#&$ logic

[(XBOX)RAG is NAROK]

58 minutes ago, SpentCasings said:

YOU TELLING ME. I FREAKING FARMED HIM THE HARD WAY. I am absolutely LIVID right now....

I forma'd my Exergis because i was going to do some Tentacle/Mag bubble/Exergis  combos that would have been absolutely HILAROUS and they just freaking Ruin my fun. 

Yeah, like if the radius was reduced by a tiny amount I might be okay with it but still: assuming you can only subsume 1 warframe at a time and it takes 23 hours before you can do another one, I can see why a few people would be annoyed if they bought (or in your case actually farmed for it) only to find that the ability is less effective and potentially a waste of their time. Time spent subsuming another more useful frame. 😞

[selig_fay]

5 minutes ago, SpentCasings said:

Let me translate:

 

I use crappy builds in some self righteous attempted at "fighting the meta" 

Meta exists in all games. But if you can use a crappy build with the same efficiency as a bored lazy meta player and still have fun, is that a bad thing?

[wwarfield]

On 2020-08-12 at 8:27 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Why do these Infused Warframe Abilities have these rules?
It was apparent in player feedback and play testing that these Infused Warframe Abilities had the potential to be the overwhelming choice; which is not ideal. Instead of changing the Ability outright due to those concerns, we decided to give them slight rules when Infused.

Why is the answer always nerf the good stuff rather than bring the bad one up to par? 

[SpentCasings]

2 minutes ago, selig_fay said:

Meta exists in all games. But if you can use a crappy build with the same efficiency as a bored lazy meta player and still have fun, is that a bad thing?

No. I use mostly survival and generalist builds None of my frames are super min maxed. 

 

However. I dont crap on players who do, call them brain dead like he did, and support bad developmental decisions because "meta bad HURRRR DURRR"  I actually distincly remember crapping on a rhino in a sortie who said "EWW A ZEPHYR" 

 

I picked his stupid butt up about 8 times that mission and had top damage at the end of it. 

[Fujiwuji]

FYI, after you epic Roar nerf, unless the value caps it to like 10% of what it originally gives, everyone will still pick it. All you are doing is making players angry for no reason. If you actually hate the game and the players as you seem to do, at least give away the values so we can confirm you either don't understand your game or you just hate your playerbase.

Not that it matters, either will end up with less players, which I'm sure you are enjoying.

[Ferbsol]

hace 13 minutos, bibmobello dijo:

Excuse me how is  the xoris "nerf"  nonsensical? You were using exalted weapons with a max combo for free

Or use naramon which is the same but u spam pizzas or equip energice, also a riven is better so using the xoris was suboptimal