The Helminth: Dev Workshop

[(NSW)H4YKEN1987]

hace 1 minuto, danberhe dijo:

but thats because you already did all that?

a new player will just build and rank guns they find useful they would not get mad because they can't speed run mastery rank.
we need a new way of separating veterans from new players, but here you are complaining about a system because you already did it?

But that's not the way, a veteran player does not came with a Master Rank!, this is the part they need to work from now on, cause Mastery rank is the most boring part in the game. is a waste of time, leveling frames and wapons you dont want, just to get a number! i think its all about skills.

[Scarletwing]

Just now, -LB-Tanuki said:

I am super disappointed... 15mr was already too low. Why veterans can't have nice things? Hype totally killed...

Same. What nerf down everything of what we hyped.

Didn't this was design for veteran at first??

WHY??  

MR8's gonna enjoy destroying frames before they can fully understand them

It that what DE want to make warframe fun?? Who kill this system before it even launches.............

[Sahansral]

vor 13 Minuten schrieb Fujiwuji:

FYI, after you epic Roar nerf, unless the value caps it to like 10% of what it originally gives, everyone will still pick it. All you are doing is making players angry for no reason. If you actually hate the game and the players as you seem to do, at least give away the values so we can confirm you either don't understand your game or you just hate your playerbase.

Not that it matters, either will end up with less players, which I'm sure you are enjoying.

Considering that Grendel's Nourish Strike, Oberon's smite and Volt's Shock trooper (both need augment mods though) are also in the pool and need to competitve with Roar, 10-15% seems about right.

[(XBOX)DEVIL 666 PL]

Hello DE, why do you want Rhino Roar nerfs?
This is my favorite frame I put into Rhino 2 Umbra forma
if you start nerfing abillties you will take the pleasure of this game
Please do not nerf abilities Roar or change to other abilities
I really like this game, I have already spent over 3300 hours in this game
most of the time I was playing Rhino
I will be very sad and angry if I have nerfed Roar abilities and I have to think about to continue playing this game

[--N0X--]

DE show that they really play their own game with these changes. They've really managed expectations and the hype is totally not dead!!

 

/s

[(NSW)H4YKEN1987]

Justo ahora, Scarletwing dijo:

Same. What nerf down everything of what we hyped.

Didn't this was design for veteran at first??

WHY??  

MR8's gonna enjoy destroying frames before they can fully understand them

It that what DE want to make warframe fun?? Who kill this system before it even launches.............

Is still hard for a newer player get to the Helminith, you will need to farm resources, build a frame, is not that easy, increase the entraty, with no mr is hard, cause the maximun will be 8000 points per day, so in the meantime, they will be at mr 15, only the veterans will know how to access this part at the MR 8. no a newer player

[RyAn0099]

19 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Wukong - Defy
Armor capped

Awww defy will be capped 😂

[chiarato2]

I dont think this abilities should be nerfed and change the MR necessary to 8, i thought this content was not intended to new players. When you think about certain warframes, they have specific builds and really hard to change, and if add one of this abilities to another warframe, you have to sacrifice something some times important on your build. In my opinion this changes should be reverted

[PolyPsych]

I was sooooooooo excited for this until the nerf announcement yesterday. Now I'm just excited (boo hoo first world problem, I know). What's wrong with there being 6 overwhelmingly popular ones in the first place? Shouldn't that just tell you were the benchmark is for usefulness??? But why can't you just raise the other abilities to this benchmark rather than nerfing the ones people are excited for? Truly disappointing. 

[danberhe]

hace 46 minutos, Keyhound dijo:

noone is surprised, they are just disapointed. DE made this system to make builds more fluid and fun... they said they would buff weaker abilities to make them better... they changed well of life into a better(but still overall bad) ability, they changed airburst into less of(but still very much) a joke ability.
and then... they nerfed the abilities they knew people would moslty use, not to the point of making them bad, but just so they could say they were worried about balance...

decoy, desiccation, and at least half of the choices are still terrible choices. half of the remaining ones are situational at best, the last few are useable to good... and then there are the top ones that are so good, no amount of nerf will change that...

and they decided to nerf them...

 

lets be real here, even if they buffed useless abilities like ice wave you would still use roar or eclipse, because is EXPONENTIALLY better than any other ability in the pool, it was completely unavoidable with how powerful they where.
if they keep it as it was it would have devolved into the catchmoon syndrom.
why use any other weapon when catchmoon exist?

[(NSW)H4YKEN1987]

En 12/8/2020 a las 19:27, [DE]Rebecca dijo:

Rhino - Roar
Diminished Damage increase

Mirage - Eclipse
Diminished Damage increase and cap Damage Reduction 

Valkyr - Warcry
Attack speed increase reduced

Protea - Dispenser
Duration reduced

Nidus - Larva
Radius reduced

Wukong - Defy
Armor capped

This is the best option to maintain the balace of the game, i think is a great choice, otherwhise, the regular frames as we know them, will be worthless to play with them. The entire CORE of this game is "DIFFERENCE" different characters cooperating. so, well done DE! 

[EDM774]

I think a lot of ppl who complained about the MR cap and wanted it lowered got the whole point of it wrong. Also DE for caving in and listening to them.

It's not about gatekeeping the 10 MR 8 players who know what they're doing and how the game works, it's about Protecting the other million who have no clue how 90% of the game works from making bad choices. I can bet a hefty sum that as soon as the update launches and all those MR8 players get their hands on the system support is going to flood with "I subsumed my warframe on accident" (even though it's gated with like 5 confirmation screens) or players who start swapping powers willy nilly with 0 thought put behind it. Or to put it bluntly, it's about protecting them from their own stupidity.
I know a handful of low MR players who are really good and know what they're doing but for every 1 of those there's at least a thousand more who don't.

Hell there's the opposite end of the spectrum, I've seen MR20 players who are clueless on how the game works cuz they just nolifed hydron. Does that mean the helminth system should be put at MR20? Not really but there's a certain threshold where the amount of actually skilled players outweigh the clueless ones and I think MR 15 was a good middle ground.

DE I sincerely hope you reconsider the MR change and revert it.

 

[SpentCasings]

3 minutes ago, danberhe said:

lets be honest here, even if they buffed useless abilities like ice wave you would still use roar or eclipse, because is EXPONENTIALLY better than any other ability in the pool, it was completely unavoidable with how powerful they where.
if they keep it as it was it would have devolved into the catchmoon syndrom.
why use any other weapon when catchmoon exist?

Because i wasn't going to explicity use roar on all the things. I was going to use abilities to take up usless skill slots and abilities that fixed problems certain warframes had...like Valkyr's lack of base HP...Elemental ward would be perfect on her, and not mess up my build. Her warcry on my chroma would stack with his vex armor and i just re-forma'd him to be able to use Adapation for ultimate tankyness, or drop adaptaion for eternal war on a 230% growning power vex-armor chroma...that would have been INCREDIBLY fun as a melle frame...but there they go...ruining things before they even get started...

[kevoisvevo]

Smh talk about nerfing select abilities while letting other strong ones like elemental ward, quivering arrow, nullstar pillage and so many in. Either nerf all subsumed ability or don't nerf any. Stop showing preferential treatment 

[nicolajtheking2]

I really don't think that MR 8 should have acces to this kind of system, i believe it should either be at MR 10-14 instead, and based on the selected abilities from each warframe aswell as the ones that's been NERFED BEFORE THE RELEASE OF THE SYSTEM! all the nerfs should be undone since the abilities like wukong's defy already has an armor limit, the only one i do understand might need a SLIGHT nerf is protea's dispencer due to how it functions, otherwise let the players decide what might need a nerf, seriously... you've nerfed something before releasing it... SMH

[(NSW)H4YKEN1987]

hace 2 minutos, EDM774 dijo:

I think a lot of ppl who complained about the MR cap and wanted it lowered got the whole point of it wrong. Also DE for caving in and listening to them.

It's not about gatekeeping the 10 MR 8 players who know what they're doing and how the game works, it's about Protecting the other million who have no clue how 90% of the game works from making bad choices. I can bet a hefty sum that as soon as the update launches and all those MR8 players get their hands on the system support is going to flood with "I subsumed my warframe on accident" (even though it's gated with like 5 confirmation screens) or players who start swapping powers willy nilly with 0 thought put behind it. Or to put it bluntly, it's about protecting them from their own stupidity.
I know a handful of low MR players who are really good and know what they're doing but for every 1 of those there's at least a thousand more who don't.

Hell there's the opposite end of the spectrum, I've seen MR20 players who are clueless on how the game works cuz they just nolifed hydron. Does that mean the helminth system should be put at MR20? Not really but there's a certain threshold where the amount of clueless players outweigh the actually skilled ones and I think MR 15 was a good middle ground.

DE I sincerely hope you reconsider the MR change and revert it.

 

Is still hard for a newer player get to the Helminith, you will need to farm resources, build a frame, is not that easy, increase the entraty, with no mr is hard, cause the maximun will be 8000 points per day, so in the meantime, they will be at mr 15, only the veterans will know how to access this part at the MR 8. no a newer player.

[Jarriaga]

I started playing October 2nd, 2017:

 I reached MR8 just 16 days later on October 18th, so not even 3 full weeks after joining the game:

DE, just why on earth do you think needing vast amount of resources justifies unlocking this system so absurdly early? This is wrong. I mean, do you think people just play like 2 hours per week or what?

[shootaman777]

Just for clarification, I'd like to ask which of these options is the case behind the August 19th revision:

a) Were the good abilities' Helminth values nerfed because they were deemed to be too good in some manner (either by obsoleting all alternatives or being too powerful in gameplay)?

OR

b) Were the good abilities' Helminth values nerfed because DE wanted to make the Helminth system more accessible to newer players while not giving new players too much power too easily, so along with decreasing the mastery requirement of the system for newer players DE also had to decrease the effectiveness of the abilities that they were given?

[The-Marksman-Hedgehog]

The nerfs before release illustrate a commonly held, and poor mentality by many developers, that nerfing the top of the stack will somehow increase the diversity of choices a player can make.

It won't, it'll simply funnel players in to making the next best set of choices. 

What needs to happen is for some of the weaker, and off-meta powers to be buffed or reworked in to being viable choices both for transfer, and for use on their original frame.

[DeckChairVonBananaCamel]

the only thing i dont like about this is that ivara's subsumable ability is not navigator, preventing me from truly being able to play as hayden tenno with proto excalibur, proto glaive, and the ability to throw and control said glaive mid-flight, haha

[Sahansral]

vor 10 Minuten schrieb PolyPsych:

But why can't you just raise the other abilities to this benchmark rather than nerfing the ones people are excited for? Truly disappointing. 

Here you go, from Pablo himself around the 16 minute mark:

 

[Keyhound]

5 minutes ago, danberhe said:

lets be honest here, even if they buffed useless abilities like ice wave you would still use roar or eclipse, because is EXPONENTIALLY better than any other ability in the pool, it was completely unavoidable with how powerful they where.
if they keep it as it was it would have devolved into the catchmoon syndrom.
why use any other weapon when catchmoon exist?

the diference is, nerfing roar wont make the other abilities better. it just make roar worse. and roar is the type of ability that, unless they nerf it by a massive amount, will still be better than the others for most cases.

in comparisson, buffing other abilities with extra effects/more usability, will make them better for certain cases, meaning, more choices. roar is a default choice, no amount of nerf will change that. however, not every frame wants or needs more dmg. more damage on nyx is pointless because her 4 is trash dmg to use no matter the damage you gain, same for her other abilities, it would buff her weapon damage, but most people would pick utility over damage on her... if they played her.

same could be said to a number of other frames, my vauban is built using minimal str, so i would like a survival ability that is not str dependent, and so on.

we want better choices, not less usefull ones.

[GhostRyderz]

 ATLEAST BUFF REST OF SH**TY POWERS TO BE INFUSED INSTEAD OF NERFING THE GOOD ONES

[danberhe]

hace 15 minutos, SpentCasings dijo:

Because i wasn't going to explicity use roar on all the things. I was going to use abilities to take up usless skill slots and abilities that fixed problems certain warframes had...like Valkyr's lack of base HP...Elemental ward would be perfect on her, and not mess up my build. Her warcry on my chroma would stack with his vex armor and i just re-forma'd him to be able to use Adapation for ultimate tankyness, or drop adaptaion for eternal war on a 230% growning power vex-armor chroma...that would have been INCREDIBLY fun as a melle frame...but there they go...ruining things before they even get started...

so your reason of them not being used in every frame is because you are using a frame that already has a damage buff with other ability?

yeah if you wanted a tankier frame you would SOMETIMES use other abilities. but other frames options were literally: S#&$ty damage ability, small croud control, gimick buff or BUFFING ALL YOUR ABILITIES. the option is rather obvious with the majority of frames.

using catchmoon as an analogy again yes you can use other guns like a sniper for a oneshot in 1 enemy, a shotgun for hitting multiple enemies, etc.
but why do that when you already have catchmoon?

[Cancerpark]

PLEASE REVERT THE MR REQUIREMENT TO 15 AGAIN NOW