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Simply put, Warframe had NO endgame to begin with (and apparently, not ever -- if this, now, MR 8 update goes live). 
This is/was a chance for DE to staying consistent (with their original advertisement and progression-driven content) to finally put 'end game' on the map:  Steel Path + Helminth System was a good start--not perfect but a good start. This not only gave access to higher level game play, but would've (finally) incentivized going beyond MR 15 (or higher).

Dedicated Vets/experienced players just want a reason to PLAY WARFRAME (again!) beyond the new player experience (which apparently EVERYTHING is new player accessible).  And that is really what this is about. There isn't any real distinct and consistent content that says 'for vets only.'    And DE has backpedaled so many times on this type of content (yea let's not talk about open world).   Anyways i'm officially done venting now about this topic.  DE i pray to RNGeezus you will make a sound decision that appeases both parties (but mostly the 'experienced players'). 

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Just now, SpentCasings said:

Whatever dummy go sit in a corner and wonder why nobody mains Grendel, and tell yourself he's GREAT. 

There you go again assuming what I use and my builds, even though I never did it to you. Stop crying kiddo.

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hace 7 minutos, selig_fay dijo:

I have nothing against meta frames if the person likes it. I sometimes indulge in it myself. But, using wukong to save 5 seconds of a fast mission, and then grieving that wukong got speed nerf, which means it became useless - I don't understand

it wasnt just a few seconds he was as fast or more than nova cause ez to use so less human mistake, he still quite fast they just killed the fun of modding for it with the cap on speed and barelly change anything for normal gameplay. In my case they killed a build i had for open worlds and for the speedrun people (yes they are a thing) was a big blow cause he was a new option. Also people like going fast in videogame  and when they cap the speed they dont like it surprise. 

Edited by Ferbsol
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The issues here is certainly not the subsumed abilities being less effective than they are on original warframes. It's the failure to communicate it from the start.

Nerfing the abilities which are expected to be the most common picks will not prevent them from being the most common picks, because if I am replacing an ability that I have no use for with any other ability that has even 10% of it's original effectiveness, it's still gonna be an upgrade.

Now if there are abilities that are making it into the subsume list at their full effectiveness, that means there's gonna be a lot of unhappy fans of these particular warframes. Either way, DE seem to have put themselves into a position where there is going to be a lot of unhappy players no matter which route they take from this point on.

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6 minutes ago, (PS4)MYKK678 said:

I can't see the ability changes being disappointing in the slightest tbh. Even forgetting for a second that DE was clearly going to be playtesting all the powers before release, theres been nothing but "omg Roars gonna be op"  "omg i cant wait to be op with elem ward". Its like sitting in front of someone and saying "omg you have no idea we have a surprise party planned for you". Of course there'd be a reduction, and rightfully so too. The buff powers were ALWAYS going to be too powerful, they were ALWAYS going to be decreased. Who in their right mind would believe they were going to ship as-is lol?

As for the MR change tbh i was happy with the 15 and think it should have stayed. Its not a "hard lock" at all, its a goal for players to set for themselves. A hard lock is releasing essential story for a game through paid DLC, a hard lock is hiding requested characters behind a paywall. This was simply giving players a reason to want to progress to MR15. Or a progression system as its known.

Its a few interesting points man but yeah im mostly in agreement with you. I mean im personally disapointed but i also realise that well that feeling is counter productive towards a healthy game wich was also my point. This point was mostly meant to adress the "its nerfed before release" arguments that ive seen quite a lot.

As for the MR i guess what i mostly had in mind was the reasoning behind it in relation to player interests vs DE's interests and the balance that needs to be maintained btween the two as well as trying to urge people caution with what one wishes for. you are right it does not fit the termonology hard lock though but regardless MR 15 is stil quite high and depending upon the statistics of the hype what % of players will get their hype killed by knowing theres a huge MR grind and several 24 hour wait walls? Thats not quite in DE's interests.

Its basically a conflict between interests and i know for a while now theres been a nerrative of older players that craft arguments based on experience but dont quite have an understanding of the changes made from DE's perspective so the result is resentment when a change that they view as essential is not implemented. "DE does not play their own game" - youtube comments.

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5 minutes ago, SpentCasings said:

He seems like the type of player that seriously builds mag around her 1 then wonders why it sucks. 

Well, Mag 1 would be awesome if it wasn't for the ragdoll effect, which renders the ability useless. If it attracted opponents and left them stunned in front of you, lol it would be much stronger than larva.

Edited by selig_fay
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En 12/8/2020 a las 19:27, [DE]Rebecca dijo:

EDIT: We have also changed the Mastery Rank Prerequisite of the Helminth Segment to 8 (was 15).

 

😐..... really?. already 14 ...daaaaaamm 😑i increase 7 mr since the new. my eyes hurt of hidrion leveling with nova, after this i will turn epilectic.

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1 minute ago, selig_fay said:

Well, Mag 1 would be awesome if it wasn't for the ragdoll effect, which renders the ability useless. If it attracted opponents and left them stunned in front of you, lol it would be much stronger than larva.

You're not wrong. Walk right into a kuva tonkor round or a bubble. 

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18 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

EDIT: We have also changed the Mastery Rank Prerequisite of the Helminth Segment to 8 (was 15).

I am super disappointed... 15mr was already too low. Why veterans can't have nice things? Hype totally killed...

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hace 7 minutos, SpentCasings dijo:

Whatever dummy go sit in a corner and wonder why nobody mains Grendel, and tell yourself he's GREAT. 

 

I said my builds where generalist with some survivability. Nothing is min maxed

Min maxed is the meta. You played YOURSELF. 

I play grendel he is pretty good, his 1 alone is like a turret that kills anything that is not status inmune, has good buffs and a big health pool. In fact they already nerf him (sentients) cause DE notice he can just make any enemy he can eat useless while its killing it. Bad example. 

Edited by Ferbsol
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1 minute ago, SpentCasings said:

You're not wrong. Walk right into a kuva tonkor round or a bubble. 

Well...Mag's pull used to be strong like that, then it got nerfed sadly, but that was years ago during Greedy Pull meta on T4 Void Tower survival.

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hace 7 horas, DARK_WIZARD999 dijo:

The entire system is broken, I started a new account and one thing I really hated is having to grind through trash weapons I don't want to play with. Or regrind vanilla frames that I don't want. the Mastery system basically makes you do things you don't want to do, which you burn out on, but it's the same as the part of the game you do like, so you just end up tiring yourself out for nothing. 

but thats because you already did all that?

a new player will just build and rank guns they find useful they would not get mad because they can't speed run mastery rank.
we need a new way of separating veterans from new players, but here you are complaining about a system because you already did it?

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hace 1 minuto, danberhe dijo:

but thats because you already did all that?

a new player will just build and rank guns they find useful they would not get mad because they can't speed run mastery rank.
we need a new way of separating veterans from new players, but here you are complaining about a system because you already did it?

But that's not the way, a veteran player does not came with a Master Rank!, this is the part they need to work from now on, cause Mastery rank is the most boring part in the game. is a waste of time, leveling frames and wapons you dont want, just to get a number! i think its all about skills.

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Just now, -LB-Tanuki said:

I am super disappointed... 15mr was already too low. Why veterans can't have nice things? Hype totally killed...

Same. What nerf down everything of what we hyped.

Didn't this was design for veteran at first??

WHY??  

MR8's gonna enjoy destroying frames before they can fully understand them

It that what DE want to make warframe fun?? Who kill this system before it even launches.............

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vor 13 Minuten schrieb Fujiwuji:

FYI, after you epic Roar nerf, unless the value caps it to like 10% of what it originally gives, everyone will still pick it. All you are doing is making players angry for no reason. If you actually hate the game and the players as you seem to do, at least give away the values so we can confirm you either don't understand your game or you just hate your playerbase.

Not that it matters, either will end up with less players, which I'm sure you are enjoying.

Considering that Grendel's Nourish Strike, Oberon's smite and Volt's Shock trooper (both need augment mods though) are also in the pool and need to competitve with Roar, 10-15% seems about right.

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Hello DE, why do you want Rhino Roar nerfs?
This is my favorite frame I put into Rhino 2 Umbra forma
if you start nerfing abillties you will take the pleasure of this game
Please do not nerf abilities Roar or change to other abilities
I really like this game, I have already spent over 3300 hours in this game
most of the time I was playing Rhino
I will be very sad and angry if I have nerfed Roar abilities and I have to think about to continue playing this game
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DE show that they really play their own game with these changes. They've really managed expectations and the hype is totally not dead!!

 

/s

Edited by --N0X--
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Justo ahora, Scarletwing dijo:

Same. What nerf down everything of what we hyped.

Didn't this was design for veteran at first??

WHY??  

MR8's gonna enjoy destroying frames before they can fully understand them

It that what DE want to make warframe fun?? Who kill this system before it even launches.............

Is still hard for a newer player get to the Helminith, you will need to farm resources, build a frame, is not that easy, increase the entraty, with no mr is hard, cause the maximun will be 8000 points per day, so in the meantime, they will be at mr 15, only the veterans will know how to access this part at the MR 8. no a newer player

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I dont think this abilities should be nerfed and change the MR necessary to 8, i thought this content was not intended to new players. When you think about certain warframes, they have specific builds and really hard to change, and if add one of this abilities to another warframe, you have to sacrifice something some times important on your build. In my opinion this changes should be reverted

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I was sooooooooo excited for this until the nerf announcement yesterday. Now I'm just excited (boo hoo first world problem, I know). What's wrong with there being 6 overwhelmingly popular ones in the first place? Shouldn't that just tell you were the benchmark is for usefulness??? But why can't you just raise the other abilities to this benchmark rather than nerfing the ones people are excited for? Truly disappointing. 

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hace 46 minutos, Keyhound dijo:

noone is surprised, they are just disapointed. DE made this system to make builds more fluid and fun... they said they would buff weaker abilities to make them better... they changed well of life into a better(but still overall bad) ability, they changed airburst into less of(but still very much) a joke ability.
and then... they nerfed the abilities they knew people would moslty use, not to the point of making them bad, but just so they could say they were worried about balance...

decoy, desiccation, and at least half of the choices are still terrible choices. half of the remaining ones are situational at best, the last few are useable to good... and then there are the top ones that are so good, no amount of nerf will change that...

and they decided to nerf them...

 

lets be real here, even if they buffed useless abilities like ice wave you would still use roar or eclipse, because is EXPONENTIALLY better than any other ability in the pool, it was completely unavoidable with how powerful they where.
if they keep it as it was it would have devolved into the catchmoon syndrom.
why use any other weapon when catchmoon exist?

Edited by danberhe
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