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I think a lot of ppl who complained about the MR cap and wanted it lowered got the whole point of it wrong. Also DE for caving in and listening to them.

It's not about gatekeeping the 10 MR 8 players who know what they're doing and how the game works, it's about Protecting the other million who have no clue how 90% of the game works from making bad choices. I can bet a hefty sum that as soon as the update launches and all those MR8 players get their hands on the system support is going to flood with "I subsumed my warframe on accident" (even though it's gated with like 5 confirmation screens) or players who start swapping powers willy nilly with 0 thought put behind it. Or to put it bluntly, it's about protecting them from their own stupidity.
I know a handful of low MR players who are really good and know what they're doing but for every 1 of those there's at least a thousand more who don't.

Hell there's the opposite end of the spectrum, I've seen MR20 players who are clueless on how the game works cuz they just nolifed hydron. Does that mean the helminth system should be put at MR20? Not really but there's a certain threshold where the amount of actually skilled players outweigh the clueless ones and I think MR 15 was a good middle ground.

DE I sincerely hope you reconsider the MR change and revert it.

 

Edited by EDM774
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3 minutes ago, danberhe said:

lets be honest here, even if they buffed useless abilities like ice wave you would still use roar or eclipse, because is EXPONENTIALLY better than any other ability in the pool, it was completely unavoidable with how powerful they where.
if they keep it as it was it would have devolved into the catchmoon syndrom.
why use any other weapon when catchmoon exist?

Because i wasn't going to explicity use roar on all the things. I was going to use abilities to take up usless skill slots and abilities that fixed problems certain warframes had...like Valkyr's lack of base HP...Elemental ward would be perfect on her, and not mess up my build. Her warcry on my chroma would stack with his vex armor and i just re-forma'd him to be able to use Adapation for ultimate tankyness, or drop adaptaion for eternal war on a 230% growning power vex-armor chroma...that would have been INCREDIBLY fun as a melle frame...but there they go...ruining things before they even get started...

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Smh talk about nerfing select abilities while letting other strong ones like elemental ward, quivering arrow, nullstar pillage and so many in. Either nerf all subsumed ability or don't nerf any. Stop showing preferential treatment 

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I really don't think that MR 8 should have acces to this kind of system, i believe it should either be at MR 10-14 instead, and based on the selected abilities from each warframe aswell as the ones that's been NERFED BEFORE THE RELEASE OF THE SYSTEM! all the nerfs should be undone since the abilities like wukong's defy already has an armor limit, the only one i do understand might need a SLIGHT nerf is protea's dispencer due to how it functions, otherwise let the players decide what might need a nerf, seriously... you've nerfed something before releasing it... SMH

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hace 2 minutos, EDM774 dijo:

I think a lot of ppl who complained about the MR cap and wanted it lowered got the whole point of it wrong. Also DE for caving in and listening to them.

It's not about gatekeeping the 10 MR 8 players who know what they're doing and how the game works, it's about Protecting the other million who have no clue how 90% of the game works from making bad choices. I can bet a hefty sum that as soon as the update launches and all those MR8 players get their hands on the system support is going to flood with "I subsumed my warframe on accident" (even though it's gated with like 5 confirmation screens) or players who start swapping powers willy nilly with 0 thought put behind it. Or to put it bluntly, it's about protecting them from their own stupidity.
I know a handful of low MR players who are really good and know what they're doing but for every 1 of those there's at least a thousand more who don't.

Hell there's the opposite end of the spectrum, I've seen MR20 players who are clueless on how the game works cuz they just nolifed hydron. Does that mean the helminth system should be put at MR20? Not really but there's a certain threshold where the amount of clueless players outweigh the actually skilled ones and I think MR 15 was a good middle ground.

DE I sincerely hope you reconsider the MR change and revert it.

 

Is still hard for a newer player get to the Helminith, you will need to farm resources, build a frame, is not that easy, increase the entraty, with no mr is hard, cause the maximun will be 8000 points per day, so in the meantime, they will be at mr 15, only the veterans will know how to access this part at the MR 8. no a newer player.

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I started playing October 2nd, 2017:

mr1.png

 I reached MR8 just 16 days later on October 18th, so not even 3 full weeks after joining the game:

MR8.png

DE, just why on earth do you think needing vast amount of resources justifies unlocking this system so absurdly early? This is wrong. I mean, do you think people just play like 2 hours per week or what?

Edited by Jarriaga
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Just for clarification, I'd like to ask which of these options is the case behind the August 19th revision:

a) Were the good abilities' Helminth values nerfed because they were deemed to be too good in some manner (either by obsoleting all alternatives or being too powerful in gameplay)?

OR

b) Were the good abilities' Helminth values nerfed because DE wanted to make the Helminth system more accessible to newer players while not giving new players too much power too easily, so along with decreasing the mastery requirement of the system for newer players DE also had to decrease the effectiveness of the abilities that they were given?

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The nerfs before release illustrate a commonly held, and poor mentality by many developers, that nerfing the top of the stack will somehow increase the diversity of choices a player can make.

It won't, it'll simply funnel players in to making the next best set of choices. 

What needs to happen is for some of the weaker, and off-meta powers to be buffed or reworked in to being viable choices both for transfer, and for use on their original frame.

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vor 10 Minuten schrieb PolyPsych:

But why can't you just raise the other abilities to this benchmark rather than nerfing the ones people are excited for? Truly disappointing. 

Here you go, from Pablo himself around the 16 minute mark:

 

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5 minutes ago, danberhe said:

lets be honest here, even if they buffed useless abilities like ice wave you would still use roar or eclipse, because is EXPONENTIALLY better than any other ability in the pool, it was completely unavoidable with how powerful they where.
if they keep it as it was it would have devolved into the catchmoon syndrom.
why use any other weapon when catchmoon exist?

the diference is, nerfing roar wont make the other abilities better. it just make roar worse. and roar is the type of ability that, unless they nerf it by a massive amount, will still be better than the others for most cases.

in comparisson, buffing other abilities with extra effects/more usability, will make them better for certain cases, meaning, more choices. roar is a default choice, no amount of nerf will change that. however, not every frame wants or needs more dmg. more damage on nyx is pointless because her 4 is trash dmg to use no matter the damage you gain, same for her other abilities, it would buff her weapon damage, but most people would pick utility over damage on her... if they played her.

same could be said to a number of other frames, my vauban is built using minimal str, so i would like a survival ability that is not str dependent, and so on.

we want better choices, not less usefull ones.

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hace 15 minutos, SpentCasings dijo:

Because i wasn't going to explicity use roar on all the things. I was going to use abilities to take up usless skill slots and abilities that fixed problems certain warframes had...like Valkyr's lack of base HP...Elemental ward would be perfect on her, and not mess up my build. Her warcry on my chroma would stack with his vex armor and i just re-forma'd him to be able to use Adapation for ultimate tankyness, or drop adaptaion for eternal war on a 230% growning power vex-armor chroma...that would have been INCREDIBLY fun as a melle frame...but there they go...ruining things before they even get started...

so your reason of them not being used in every frame is because you are using a frame that already has a damage buff with other ability?


yeah if you wanted a tankier frame you would SOMETIMES use other abilities. but other frames options were literally: S#&$ty damage ability, small croud control, gimick buff or BUFFING ALL YOUR ABILITIES. the option is rather obvious with the majority of frames.

using catchmoon as an analogy again yes you can use other guns like a sniper for a oneshot in 1 enemy, a shotgun for hitting multiple enemies, etc.
but why do that when you already have catchmoon?

Edited by danberhe
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hace 7 minutos, Keyhound dijo:

the diference is, nerfing roar wont make the other abilities better. it just make roar worse. and roar is the type of ability that, unless they nerf it by a massive amount, will still be better than the others for most cases.

in comparisson, buffing other abilities with extra effects/more usability, will make them better for certain cases, meaning, more choices. roar is a default choice, no amount of nerf will change that. however, not every frame wants or needs more dmg. more damage on nyx is pointless because her 4 is trash dmg to use no matter the damage you gain, same for her other abilities, it would buff her weapon damage, but most people would pick utility over damage on her... if they played her.

same could be said to a number of other frames, my vauban is built using minimal str, so i would like a survival ability that is not str dependent, and so on.

we want better choices, not less usefull ones.

yeah but nerfing roar was inevitable, Again you cant have other abilities be useful without roar and eclipse being nerf, with other abilities i hope they buff the usless rather than nerf the most used. but roar and eclipse are just too useful to have compared to other abilities.

Edited by danberhe
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Question.

This thread is now 139 pages long as I type this.

How many of the people who have posted here are going to stop playing Warframe because of this change to an unreleased system?

Or is this all just so much hot air and butthurt?

This system hasn't even been played yet but it's ruined? How? How can we know that if we haven't even played it yet?

Throwing Roar on Saryn will still make her stronger than she was before, giving Nezah Larva will still make him more powerful, or are people not going to bother now? Are you all giving up simply because that ability isn't going to be as powerful as it was on it's original frame?

Why should an ability taken from one frame and slapped on another be as powerful as the original?

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il y a 4 minutes, Fl_3 a dit :

Question.

This thread is now 139 pages long as I type this.

How many of the people who have posted here are going to stop playing Warframe because of this change to an unreleased system?

Or is this all just so much hot air and butthurt?

This system hasn't even been played yet but it's ruined? How? How can we know that if we haven't even played it yet?

Throwing Roar on Saryn will still make her stronger than she was before, giving Nezah Larva will still make him more powerful, or are people not going to bother now? Are you all giving up simply because that ability isn't going to be as powerful as it was on it's original frame?

Why should an ability taken from one frame and slapped on another be as powerful as the original?

You promised me a car and you gave me a bike. Yes, it is better than my feet. Yes, I am disappointed.

Edited by AANGDETO
typo
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2 minutes ago, Fl_3 said:

Question.

This thread is now 139 pages long as I type this.

How many of the people who have posted here are going to stop playing Warframe because of this change to an unreleased system?

Or is this all just so much hot air and butthurt?

This system hasn't even been played yet but it's ruined? How? How can we know that if we haven't even played it yet?

Throwing Roar on Saryn will still make her stronger than she was before, giving Nezah Larva will still make him more powerful, or are people not going to bother now? Are you all giving up simply because that ability isn't going to be as powerful as it was on it's original frame?

Why should an ability taken from one frame and slapped on another be as powerful as the original?

They will not stop but probably they will play much less overall after the lowered MR requirement making the new world probably stupid like the previous ones for veteran players.

Edited by bibmobello
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2 minutes ago, Fl_3 said:

Question.

This thread is now 139 pages long as I type this.

How many of the people who have posted here are going to stop playing Warframe because of this change to an unreleased system?

Or is this all just so much hot air and butthurt?

This system hasn't even been played yet but it's ruined? How? How can we know that if we haven't even played it yet?

Throwing Roar on Saryn will still make her stronger than she was before, giving Nezah Larva will still make him more powerful, or are people not going to bother now? Are you all giving up simply because that ability isn't going to be as powerful as it was on it's original frame?

Why should an ability taken from one frame and slapped on another be as powerful as the original?

You know, you do have a point...

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1 minute ago, Fl_3 said:

Why should an ability taken from one frame and slapped on another be as powerful as the original?

If you're going there, then nerf them all. Don't single out the only good ones.

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At this point you can just scrap the system.

 

People wanted to use those abilities for a reason, so I dont really see a point in nerfing them. They could have made some rarely used warframes actually usable meanwhile now after the nerf they will stay where they were before.

 

I'd revert the changes cause they are pointless and MR 8 players already have a ton of content to do on their rank so why would you throw them something that they cant even properly utilize.

 

Also the NERF EVERYTHING instead of buff terrible things mentality is slowly making most of the people lose their minds. There are many weapons/warframes that have fun and unique aspects to them meanwhile they are just being made for mastery rank and deleted afterwards which is quite sad.

Edited by Qevo
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Just now, danberhe said:

yeah but nerfing roar was inevitable, Again you cant have other abilities be useful without roar and eclipse being nerf, with other abilities i hope they buff the usless rather than nerf the most used. but roar and eclipse are just too useful to have compared to other abilities

Nefting Roar doesn't make Decoy any better it just make Roar S#&$tier.

 

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7 hours ago, Sahansral said:

It isn't the goal to make decoy more attractive, but to have roughly 20 viable options instead of 6.
Stop acting like the rest of abilities besides the six are terrible. FFS, just be happy that you can replace things like Spectral Scream.

I am not acting like everything but 6 are terrible, you are. Read your first sentence please. That is partially the problem. DE is acting like there are only 6 good abilities based on what some Youtuber said. By nerfing abilities, that removes choices. The only reason Roar is a good ability on a lot of kits is because many of them do not have a use for the other abilities. They could instead buff bad abilities so players can say "I could go with the boring damage buff, or I could go with this awesome synergy that complements my warframe's kit". To a degree, that was already the case because there are many good abilities right now. All they had to do was give some good effects to the really bad abilities (which is what they originally said they would do) that can compete with the other abilities. That is why this change is misguided. It changes nothing, except make the system less exciting. People that want a damage buff are still going to pick roar. 

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On 2020-08-12 at 1:27 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Who is this for?
We consider this a customization system for very experienced Warframe players (Mastery Rank 15 8 Prerequisite). We do not intend to let newer players unlock this system. We intentionally placed the Segment deep into progression to ensure only experienced players could access the Segment and begin their journey with Helminth.

The cognitive dissonance is STRONG with this one. Yet another case of MR losing value.

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