The Helminth: Dev Workshop

[danberhe]

it 

hace 1 minuto, Keyhound dijo:

of course it was, its DE we are talking about, the same people who thought, and no, this is no joke, archwings shouldnt have vaccum because vaccum is a sentinel mod...
this is the type of logic they work of,

and like i said, no amount of nerf will change the fact, most people will pick roar whenever they can. its just that good of an ability. however, like i also said time and again, roar isnt the best for every case, so long there are better options for what you need. people want a good survivability skill on squichy frames, and there are cases of frames that use negative str, or low duration, making roar borderline useless.

better options is always better than less good ones. higher floor, not lower ceiling...

it might not be the best for every case but is still the best for the majority of cases and that's the problem yeah i wouldn't put damage buffs on loki or ivara most of the time but almost every other frame would be happy to sacrifice a useless ability for being able to oneshot everything.

[Wynn]

How do some weapons have a higher MR requirements than a system that deletes warframes for power? Please go back on lowering the MR, it was nice to finally have a system for vets and because you guys scared to leave new players out, your giving a system that let's newer players delete warframes.

[Xylena_Lazarow]

10 hours ago, bibmobello said:

They even gave khora parts for free on twitch.

If only I had the foresight to build a 2nd Khora, or paid attention to Twitch promotions. Time for me to git gud.

I still don't see what all the salt is about, you can already trivialize the entire game into an I-Win button if that's your thing, Steel Path endurance kuva farms are a solved meta described as "95% AFK except the Khora spam." Helminth gives us new toys to play with and lets everyone RP their frame "rework" fanfiction essays in game. I'll be enjoying my sandbox while the power fantasy potatoes cry ITT that their faceroll Roar Wisp is only doubling their damage and not tripling it.

[Secave]

At first I was hyped for that but instead of buffing bad abitlities (decoy, spectrorage, ice wave, terrify, mind control, etc...) You chose to nerf de good ones.

There was an opportunity to buff/changes bad abilities without doing total reworks of those frames. What about Decoy that is a less usefull lantern (titania), or mind control that is single target (wich in this game doesn't work with the gameplay).

You could buff those on the base frame so ppl will have harder choice to replace but chose the nerf mentality again. I played for 6+ years and I don't understand why is it so hard to make frames powerfull ? This ISN'T a hard game. It's a looter/shooter vs hordes of ennemies and that's OK ! That's the fun of it. Shooting TONS of ennemies with crazy powers.

 

(Also MR8 is too low. MR 11/12 would be a good choice since ppl with that MR continue to play or stop but aren't in the "beginning" phase of the game anymore).

 

I'm still waiting for this but less than at tennocon. I'm waiting for the open infested area too. Love the look of it. Keep up the good work, don't focus on nerfing stuff but bump what needs to be and don't hesitate to make it powerfull.

[Keyhound]

Just now, Sahansral said:

Nerfing roar will make people thinking hard about choosing shock, nourish or smite.

in other words, nothing changed, since they still would even before this nerf... also, no reason to pick shock, when smite is better for the majority of cases.

[FLyingGander]

These nerf are stupid. Please just revert it. Utilitize your mastery rank system. This is supposed to be powerful content for more experienced players. Mr 8 is not experienced. If there is a higher MR for the system there is more incentive for players to play more and experience the cool content. I’m not surprised by the nerfs but let us enjoy the system. We want to feel powerful and really utilize the system at its fullest. You’re angering a lot of your community. Because most of the other chosen abilities are terrible. Gosh I love this game so much. But I’m so tired of these nerfs.  

[Yoolayn]

38 minutes ago, (XB1)DEVIL 666 PL said:

Hello DE, why do you want Rhino Roar nerfs?
This is my favorite frame I put into Rhino 2 Umbra forma
if you start nerfing abillties you will take the pleasure of this game
Please do not nerf abilities Roar or change to other abilities
I really like this game, I have already spent over 3300 hours in this game
most of the time I was playing Rhino
I will be very sad and angry if I have nerfed Roar abilities and I have to think about to continue playing this game

They aren't touching rhino, only the ability when you put it in other frames

[Kriaga_]

Some of the abilities seem like they could be overwhelmingly used by the playerbase? Why? Maybe because they are good and the other ones suck. No one in their right mind would use decoy in its current state, and making desirable abilities less desirable only makes all the abilities non-desirable. This was a system I was pretty excited for, it gave potential for new interesting builds, but with nerfs like these it'll just be more mediocre content. And why bother giving it to MR 8? It was supposed to be powerful endgame content anyway. 

[(XBOX)AMONGTHEWEAK]

Warframe is about using whatever means necessary to complete a particular task in the way or fashion you want depending on the mode you are in. 

 

[Keyhound]

1 minute ago, danberhe said:

it 

it might not be the best for every case but is still the best for the majority of cases and that's the problem yeah i wouldn't put damage buffs on loki or ivara most of the time but almost every other frame would be happy to sacrifice a useless ability for being able to oneshot everything.

which is why people want better choices. this nerf dint change that. roar still remains a top tier choice, because of how it works.

[(PSN)Silver1593]

💚

[bibmobello]

I give you the last tips before releasing this update:

You had to test the game on a serious levels with experienced players for each frame.

Testing against level 20 enemies nowadays it's just stupid.

Some abilities are totally broken for some frames, now you can use ivara cloak on equinox destroying everything on every level without dying once.

Speedruns, Killing level 20 enemies is not fun anymore.

This is not fun at all but  if you are releasing this update just for little kids without money in their wallet...

[danberhe]

hace 1 minuto, Jarriaga dijo:

The problem is not Roar being better than Decoy or a buffed Decoy being better than Roar.

The question is, how much better is it?

X > Y = Not a problem. Most people can take a small tradeoff.

X >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Y = Huge problem. Y is no longer an option at all.

the problem is that there is no possible way to bring Y to the same playing-field as X, without nerfing X.

[(PSN)sessso]

I'm super bummed they're ruining the helminth system. Instead of buffing weak abilities, they're just nerfining strong ones so now theres hardly a point in even checking out the update.

[SpentCasings]

25 minutes ago, Keyhound said:

the diference is, nerfing roar wont make the other abilities better. it just make roar worse. and roar is the type of ability that, unless they nerf it by a massive amount, will still be better than the others for most cases.

in comparisson, buffing other abilities with extra effects/more usability, will make them better for certain cases, meaning, more choices. roar is a default choice, no amount of nerf will change that. however, not every frame wants or needs more dmg. more damage on nyx is pointless because her 4 is trash dmg to use no matter the damage you gain, same for her other abilities, it would buff her weapon damage, but most people would pick utility over damage on her... if they played her.

same could be said to a number of other frames, my vauban is built using minimal str, so i would like a survival ability that is not str dependent, and so on.

we want better choices, not less usefull ones.

Her 4 has the potential to be one of the most deadly aoes in game if they just tweaked it a bit. Have it quickly accumulate damage Similar to the speed equinox charges her 4 then just boom. 

[Mordewolt]

A tool has to do its job, if the larva range becomes too low nobody will use ice wave instead of the larva, because they do different things. Nobody will use disiccation instead of the roar if roar numbers will be too low. If you want all abilities to be used, give us the abilities that do stuff. And if you're afraid of giving mr8 players that much power - nobody forced you to change it from mr 15 to 8, and nobody can force you from reverting it, especially before you even released the damn thing.

[(NSW)H4YKEN1987]

hace 2 minutos, Wynn dijo:

How do some weapons have a higher MR requirements than a system that deletes warframes for power? Please go back on lowering the MR, it was nice to finally have a system for vets and because you guys scared to leave new players out, your giving a system that let's newer players delete warframes.

i have a better one, WHY IS GAMORA? 

.... also you don't have to go that far, think on the Rivens of MR16.

Mr do not reperesent a Veteran player. they need to work on a new way of represent a veteran player. form here is easy to be a critic. but back there they need to change a lot of things. so is enough to have a new complete expanded world nowdays than nothing.

[FLyingGander]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)sessso said:

I'm super bummed they're ruining the helminth system. Instead of buffing weak abilities, they're just nerfining strong ones so now theres hardly a point in even checking out the update.

Exactly 

[SpentCasings]

18 minutes ago, Fl_3 said:

Question.

This thread is now 139 pages long as I type this.

How many of the people who have posted here are going to stop playing Warframe because of this change to an unreleased system?

Or is this all just so much hot air and butthurt?

This system hasn't even been played yet but it's ruined? How? How can we know that if we haven't even played it yet?

Throwing Roar on Saryn will still make her stronger than she was before, giving Nezah Larva will still make him more powerful, or are people not going to bother now? Are you all giving up simply because that ability isn't going to be as powerful as it was on it's original frame?

Why should an ability taken from one frame and slapped on another be as powerful as the original?

I use all 4 of saryns abilities why the hell would I put roar on her?

 

Why would you put larva on Nezha? It really doesnt have any synergy with any of his other abilities...Lara On a Mag would be INCREDIBLE, fix the issue of things walking out of her bubble, Group everything up nice and neat for her 2, 3 AND 4 and make her overall DEADLY to play afterwards. AND get rid of her garbage 1. 

 

I was EXCITED by these prospects and then they just slapped me in the face with a wet towel. Yeah im going to be pissed about it. 

[(PSN)waterdog77]

9 minutes ago, Sahansral said:

Nerfing roar will make people thinking hard about choosing shock, nourish or smite instead. Real choice instead no brainer cookie cutter.

Welp here goes the Eidolons meta, sorry for my bad spelling

[Egathentale]

If DE was running a restaurant, I imagine they would announce a new menu, with ten dishes out of which five were terrible, three were barely edible, and two were actually really good, and then the next day they would put out a new menu and tell you that they took all the salt and spices out of the best dishes, because for some reason everyone picked them, and they want to promote varied eating habits.

The only difference is that if an actual restaurant did that, they would go bankrupt in a week, yet DE have been pulling this kind of crap for years, and they are somehow still making money. I can't help but wonder if they are the stupid ones, or the joke's on us.

[(PSN)Shaun-T-Wilson]

47 minutes ago, (XB1)DEVIL 666 PL said:

Hello DE, why do you want Rhino Roar nerfs?
This is my favorite frame I put into Rhino 2 Umbra forma
if you start nerfing abillties you will take the pleasure of this game
Please do not nerf abilities Roar or change to other abilities
I really like this game, I have already spent over 3300 hours in this game
most of the time I was playing Rhino
I will be very sad and angry if I have nerfed Roar abilities and I have to think about to continue playing this game

Standard rhino Roar is uneffected on rhino, the change only affect if on another frame.

[Murox]

Suggestion in advance: Some kind of upgrade to the Helminth room that makes it possible to open the door with any Warframe, not just one with the cysts (or Nidus).

[SpentCasings]

3 minutes ago, Mordewolt said:

A tool has to do its job, if the larva range becomes too low nobody will use ice wave instead of the larva, because they do different things. Nobody will use disiccation instead of the roar if roar numbers will be too low. If you want all abilities to be used, give us the abilities that do stuff. And if you're afraid of giving mr8 players that much power - nobody forced you to change it from mr 15 to 8, and nobody can force you from reverting it, especially before you even released the damn thing.

*in the far distance*

 

THIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIISSSSSSSSSS

I would actually use dessication a bit...quick animation, everything is blinded, good for fast melle frames...works through WALLS. its actually not bad...

[Marine027]

Sure, lets trow away anything that makes any frame unique in the first place then, sure thing.

Then you will have the people run away that enjoyed uniquness and variety instead of the group which not wants such a mess.

You never can satisfy everyone, i hate this system already personal opinion wise.

You see were this goes? Let us just delete all frames and let us drop abilitys like mods, like the good old days, just make frames as skins from now on then.

It is all beta and will be forever so DE keeps adding new things and can change it as they want right? Every other game gets ripped apart for beeing early acces for years or not able ot hold on one concept, Warframe lost its identity, not knowing what it wants to be and it not evolves around what it has but rather keep trows things on and look what sticks.

If you want the game evolve that way sure, some of us not want it that way and want it evolve reasonable and not a free for all, games need rules and balance or else it will be boring very fast. Even in PvE focused, balance is needed, you see how games like DayZ go, no rules exist and it becomes a PvP with the zombies not mattering anymore event that is supposed to be a zombie survival, or if a racing game allows you to just ignore the track and drive somewhere.

Games simply not work that way if they not focused on such from the beginning, if Warframe had grown with that concept i could accept it but not so late in with so many Frames on your hand now only causing heavy issues.