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I give you the last tips before releasing this update:

You had to test the game on a serious levels with experienced players for each frame.

Testing against level 20 enemies nowadays it's just stupid.

Some abilities are totally broken for some frames, now you can use ivara cloak on equinox destroying everything on every level without dying once.

Speedruns, Killing level 20 enemies is not fun anymore.

This is not fun at all but  if you are releasing this update just for little kids without money in their wallet...

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hace 1 minuto, Jarriaga dijo:

The problem is not Roar being better than Decoy or a buffed Decoy being better than Roar.

The question is, how much better is it?

X > Y = Not a problem. Most people can take a small tradeoff.

X >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Y = Huge problem. Y is no longer an option at all.

the problem is that there is no possible way to bring Y to the same playing-field as X, without nerfing X.

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25 minutes ago, Keyhound said:

the diference is, nerfing roar wont make the other abilities better. it just make roar worse. and roar is the type of ability that, unless they nerf it by a massive amount, will still be better than the others for most cases.

in comparisson, buffing other abilities with extra effects/more usability, will make them better for certain cases, meaning, more choices. roar is a default choice, no amount of nerf will change that. however, not every frame wants or needs more dmg. more damage on nyx is pointless because her 4 is trash dmg to use no matter the damage you gain, same for her other abilities, it would buff her weapon damage, but most people would pick utility over damage on her... if they played her.

same could be said to a number of other frames, my vauban is built using minimal str, so i would like a survival ability that is not str dependent, and so on.

we want better choices, not less usefull ones.

Her 4 has the potential to be one of the most deadly aoes in game if they just tweaked it a bit. Have it quickly accumulate damage Similar to the speed equinox charges her 4 then just boom. 

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A tool has to do its job, if the larva range becomes too low nobody will use ice wave instead of the larva, because they do different things. Nobody will use disiccation instead of the roar if roar numbers will be too low. If you want all abilities to be used, give us the abilities that do stuff. And if you're afraid of giving mr8 players that much power - nobody forced you to change it from mr 15 to 8, and nobody can force you from reverting it, especially before you even released the damn thing.

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hace 2 minutos, Wynn dijo:

How do some weapons have a higher MR requirements than a system that deletes warframes for power? Please go back on lowering the MR, it was nice to finally have a system for vets and because you guys scared to leave new players out, your giving a system that let's newer players delete warframes.

i have a better one, WHY IS GAMORA? 

.... also you don't have to go that far, think on the Rivens of MR16.

Mr do not reperesent a Veteran player. they need to work on a new way of represent a veteran player. form here is easy to be a critic. but back there they need to change a lot of things. so is enough to have a new complete expanded world nowdays than nothing.

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3 minutes ago, (PS4)sessso said:

I'm super bummed they're ruining the helminth system. Instead of buffing weak abilities, they're just nerfining strong ones so now theres hardly a point in even checking out the update.

Exactly 

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18 minutes ago, Fl_3 said:

Question.

This thread is now 139 pages long as I type this.

How many of the people who have posted here are going to stop playing Warframe because of this change to an unreleased system?

Or is this all just so much hot air and butthurt?

This system hasn't even been played yet but it's ruined? How? How can we know that if we haven't even played it yet?

Throwing Roar on Saryn will still make her stronger than she was before, giving Nezah Larva will still make him more powerful, or are people not going to bother now? Are you all giving up simply because that ability isn't going to be as powerful as it was on it's original frame?

Why should an ability taken from one frame and slapped on another be as powerful as the original?

I use all 4 of saryns abilities why the hell would I put roar on her?

 

Why would you put larva on Nezha? It really doesnt have any synergy with any of his other abilities...Lara On a Mag would be INCREDIBLE, fix the issue of things walking out of her bubble, Group everything up nice and neat for her 2, 3 AND 4 and make her overall DEADLY to play afterwards. AND get rid of her garbage 1. 

 

I was EXCITED by these prospects and then they just slapped me in the face with a wet towel. Yeah im going to be pissed about it. 

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9 minutes ago, Sahansral said:

Nerfing roar will make people thinking hard about choosing shock, nourish or smite instead. Real choice instead no brainer cookie cutter.

Welp here goes the Eidolons meta, sorry for my bad spelling

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If DE was running a restaurant, I imagine they would announce a new menu, with ten dishes out of which five were terrible, three were barely edible, and two were actually really good, and then the next day they would put out a new menu and tell you that they took all the salt and spices out of the best dishes, because for some reason everyone picked them, and they want to promote varied eating habits.

The only difference is that if an actual restaurant did that, they would go bankrupt in a week, yet DE have been pulling this kind of crap for years, and they are somehow still making money. I can't help but wonder if they are the stupid ones, or the joke's on us.

Edited by Egathentale
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47 minutes ago, (XB1)DEVIL 666 PL said:


 

Hello DE, why do you want Rhino Roar nerfs?
This is my favorite frame I put into Rhino 2 Umbra forma
if you start nerfing abillties you will take the pleasure of this game
Please do not nerf abilities Roar or change to other abilities
I really like this game, I have already spent over 3300 hours in this game
most of the time I was playing Rhino
I will be very sad and angry if I have nerfed Roar abilities and I have to think about to continue playing this game

Standard rhino Roar is uneffected on rhino, the change only affect if on another frame.

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Suggestion in advance: Some kind of upgrade to the Helminth room that makes it possible to open the door with any Warframe, not just one with the cysts (or Nidus).

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3 minutes ago, Mordewolt said:

A tool has to do its job, if the larva range becomes too low nobody will use ice wave instead of the larva, because they do different things. Nobody will use disiccation instead of the roar if roar numbers will be too low. If you want all abilities to be used, give us the abilities that do stuff. And if you're afraid of giving mr8 players that much power - nobody forced you to change it from mr 15 to 8, and nobody can force you from reverting it, especially before you even released the damn thing.

*in the far distance*

 

THIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIISSSSSSSSSS

I would actually use dessication a bit...quick animation, everything is blinded, good for fast melle frames...works through WALLS. its actually not bad...

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Sure, lets trow away anything that makes any frame unique in the first place then, sure thing.

Then you will have the people run away that enjoyed uniquness and variety instead of the group which not wants such a mess.

You never can satisfy everyone, i hate this system already personal opinion wise.

You see were this goes? Let us just delete all frames and let us drop abilitys like mods, like the good old days, just make frames as skins from now on then.

It is all beta and will be forever so DE keeps adding new things and can change it as they want right? Every other game gets ripped apart for beeing early acces for years or not able ot hold on one concept, Warframe lost its identity, not knowing what it wants to be and it not evolves around what it has but rather keep trows things on and look what sticks.

If you want the game evolve that way sure, some of us not want it that way and want it evolve reasonable and not a free for all, games need rules and balance or else it will be boring very fast. Even in PvE focused, balance is needed, you see how games like DayZ go, no rules exist and it becomes a PvP with the zombies not mattering anymore event that is supposed to be a zombie survival, or if a racing game allows you to just ignore the track and drive somewhere.

Games simply not work that way if they not focused on such from the beginning, if Warframe had grown with that concept i could accept it but not so late in with so many Frames on your hand now only causing heavy issues.

Edited by Marine027
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1 minute ago, Mordewolt said:

A tool has to do its job, if the larva range becomes too low nobody will use ice wave instead of the larva, because they do different things. Nobody will use disiccation instead of the roar if roar numbers will be too low. If you want all abilities to be used, give us the abilities that do stuff. And if you're afraid of giving mr8 players that much power - nobody forced you to change it from mr 15 to 8, and nobody can force you from reverting it, especially before you even released the damn thing.

Noting specifically the reverting part. There will be far more players relieved both silently and vocally if you reverted the changes than a small very vocal part of the community. Remember this. A great deal of us aren't going to start bemoaning you for reverting the changes. We'll probably feel a bit of relief for the time being. Then when the update launches and we get our hands on it. You can study what we do with the new abilities, which ones no one is taking, which ones everyone is taking. Trust us when we say, we cannot be more infuriated than we are now if you just reverted the changes.

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hace 13 minutos, Keyhound dijo:

which is why people want better choices. this nerf dint change that. roar still remains a top tier choice, because of how it works.

we don't really see the numbers so they might as well had maked them useless. 

 


And again, even if they buffed other abilities like they did with well of life, the nerfs to eclipse and roar were still going to happen.

The remaining question is how good they would balance other abilities (and seeing how they treated dispensary and larva. helminth already has a foot in the coffin)

Edited by danberhe
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At first I was concerned larva with 14m radius base was too short, and roar with 50% base is too small. But it seems DE is assuming we min max range and strength on other frames. To clarify, only chroma and rhino maxes strength, and niche situational frames maxes out range, so I'm awfully confused how the current prenerfed values are a threat in actual use cases. 

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19 August update:

 

Maaaan again the same S#&$ parameter for nerfs: #*!%ing usage... Why??? Does the everything really needs to have the same usage? I mean does everythings needs to be the same poop instead of great?

Man those nerfs won't change S#&$, because there is a big diference in abilities quality there... but the way DE nerfs stuff is painfull... U can't have preferences, unless they are unpopular...

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After seeing the Tennocon announcements I was actually hyped and was getting back into the game a little bit. I actually got together with my clan and we farmed out 10-12 frames over a weekend.

All this announcement has done is remind me why I started to put the game down in the first place; hardly a reason to progress past MR 14, and every new update is catered to new players.

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vor 8 Minuten schrieb Keyhound:

in other words, nothing changed, since they still would even before this nerf... also, no reason to pick shock, when smite is better for the majority of cases.

If you don't tone down roar nobody who reads and understands the wiki would choose an additive damage boost over an multiplicate one, especially if the former one only effects weapons and the later one weapons and skills.
Smite > shock, right. But that's more because electricity isn't the hottest damage type right now. At least with shock, players may calculate in combining elements and saving electricity on their weapon loadouts perhaps.

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3 minutes ago, Egathentale said:

If DE was running a restaurant, I imagine they would announce a new menu, with ten dishes out of which five were terrible, three were barely edible, and two were actually really good, and then the next day they would put out a new menu and tell you that they took all the salt and spices out of the best dishes, because for some reason everyone picked them, and they want to promote varied eating habits.

The only difference is that if an actual restaurant did that, they would go bankrupt in a week, yet DE have been pulling this kind of crap for years, and they are somehow still making money. I can't help but wonder if they are the stupid ones, or the joke's on us.

If this forum had signatures, This would be my new one. 

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1 minute ago, Silvertap said:

19 August update:

 

Maaaan again the same S#&$ parameter for nerfs: #*!%ing usage... Why??? Does the everything really needs to have the same usage? I mean does everythings needs to be the same poop instead of great?

Man those nerfs won't change S#&$, because there is a big diference in abilities quality there... but the way DE nerfs stuff is painfull... U can't have preferences, unless they are unpopular...

Thats why I main a prisma gorgon...Nobody uses it so the rivens (mostly) dont get nerfed. I literally have to game the system to have fun...and its sad. 

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20 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

AUGUST 19TH UPDATE:

Greetings, Tenno!

The launch of Heart of Deimos grows near, and we have some Helminth updates since we last posted! Below are 2 parts of updated/clarifying information that touches both Infused Warframe Abilities and the Helminth Segment acquisition.  

PART 1 - Changes to select Infused Warframe Abilities

Please keep in mind we’re still testing/playing around with the values for each, hence why the values are not present below:

The following only apply to Infused Warframe Abilities:

Rhino - Roar
Diminished Damage increase

Mirage - Eclipse
Diminished Damage increase and cap Damage Reduction 

Valkyr - Warcry
Attack speed increase reduced

Protea - Dispenser
Duration reduced

Nidus - Larva
Radius reduced

Wukong - Defy
Armor capped


Why do these Infused Warframe Abilities have these rules?
It was apparent in player feedback and play testing that these Infused Warframe Abilities had the potential to be the overwhelming choice; which is not ideal. Instead of changing the Ability outright due to those concerns, we decided to give them slight rules when Infused.


PART 2 - Helminth Segment Acquisition

As already indicated in this Dev Workshops original post, the Helminth Segment is acquired in the Heart of Deimos in the Entrati Syndicate. To expand on that, this means you’ll need to progress within the Entrati Syndicate located within the Necralisk to obtain the Helminth Segment before you can start experimenting with everything Helminth. 

Without spoiling too much, the Helminth Segment is currently obtained in Rank 3 of the Entrati Syndicate. This reminder is simply to set expectations on what you’ll have access to upon logging into the Heart of Deimos. 

That’s all for now!

Why not just improve the other abilities instead? This nerf won't change anything, people would still rather have a puny Roar than Decoy, it would make more sense if you made the other abilities more apealing, since this is a sistem made for "advanced" players.

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37 minutes ago, LordLoaly said:

Dear DE, if you didn't notice by now how much the playerbase is unsatisfied by these actions (for me personally its most importantly the MR requirement), let me put it into a new perspective: This is the first time ever I saw TacticalPotato loosing his cool/positivity. Like, ever.

Can't disagree.

Already posted my thoughts so not contributing much at this point, but it is frustrating. Nerfing good abilities does not make people use the bad ones, it just makes them continue to  use the good ones, but enjoy it less. It's not a complex situation for anyone to understand.

I keep using this example but no-one is going to pick Ice Wave because Roar isn't as strong. Ice Wave is still 99% pointless. I only ever press the button when playing Frost to feel like the ability is contributing something (it's not).

If they wanted 40 odd abilities of equal strength, and they coupled slight nerfs with a raft of say, 10+ fixes/changes/buffs to make the bad choices *more* appealing - sure. That would work! Then there would be more choice, which would be the intention. That would be great.

But it keeps coming back to - making the only good choices worse still doesn't give more choice. It's frustrating that they've seemingly taken Brozime's ability grades as feedback, but only to nerf the things that are looking good. No comment at all about the huge chunk of abilities that are never going to be used.

Will leave it at that now, I think. Hopefully this feedback is received - everyone seems to be on the same page - and they understand / want to fix this. Otherwise not much that can be done I guess.

 

Edited by CoreWolf
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35 minutes ago, danberhe said:

so your reason of them not being used in every frame is because you are using a frame that already has a damage buff with other ability?


yeah if you wanted a tankier frame you would SOMETIMES use other abilities. but other frames options were literally: S#&$ty damage ability, small croud control, gimick buff or BUFFING ALL YOUR ABILITIES. the option is rather obvious with the majority of frames.

using catchmoon as an analogy again yes you can use other guns like a sniper for a oneshot in 1 enemy, a shotgun for hitting multiple enemies, etc.
but why do that when you already have catchmoon?

Because the catchmoon is not useful or needed in all situations. you edit your tools to suit your needs. I dont need roar on all my frames, nor was it going on all of them. Quite a few? you bet, but not all. 

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