Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Justo ahora, SpentCasings dijo:

You obviously havent seen any of my guns, because i shoot more than i swing.....

 

If i'm running an arca plasmor, or any other short range shotgun im not also running a Catchmoon. I need something long ranged and accurate. Lex primes, Twin Grakatas, etc...You know...I edit my secondary to make up for a problem my primary has....Thats why your analogy is flawed. SOmeone else mentioned earlier using Roar on saryn. I'm not touching my Saryn. I use her entire kit, and i dont use a lot of power strn. Belive it or not not everyone runs a max range max power Saryn, so roar on her would be a complete hinderance to the way I play. 

seeing that you aren't getting by now, im referring to pre nerf catchmoon which was literally a prenerf arca plasmor with faster reload, inf ammo, more range and A LOT more damage.

(and why would i need range in other place rather than open worlds? by that logic melee is ass because enemies are spaced out in OW)

 

yeah my rubico with a riven can delete any enemy in one shot, but why would i reload and aim if i can just press E to do the same, better and to more enemies?

if you believe that guns and melee are on the same playing field JUST because you dont use melee i dont know what to tell you.

is like saying flawed continuity is better than prime continuity because i don't use prime continuity.

So Again: HINDERING YOURSELF DOESN'T MAKE IT THE BETTER OPTION.

Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

To offer further clarification on why we changed the Mastery Rank Prerequisite to MR 8:

There's many factors that come into play in order to engage with the Helminth system, such as:

  • Having an ongoing supply of Resources that you don't need elsewhere to feed your Helminth
  • Working your way up the Helminth rankings to unlock more features
  • Having Warframes your ready/willing to Subsume

Looking at the above, we can see that higher rank players will be more equipped to offer these things to Helminth out the gate, where a MR 8 player will start with more accessible/cheaper Helminth Abilities first before diving deeper. Thus allowing MR 8 players to participate in Helminth and grow as they go.

Come on, there's 99% chance your main reason for MR change is feedback reminding you how excluding this is for new players.

I disagree with this line of thought but it's not rare and it will never stop surprising me how instinctively dishonest you are about most simple things, Jesus Christ... 😡

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
il y a 5 minutes, Turtle. a dit :

"It was apparent in player feedback and play testing that these Infused Warframe Abilities had the potential to be the overwhelming choice"
Well no duh these skills would be picked, do you expect people to use Ice wave or Smite? It's not that these abilities are "too good", it's that every other one sucks. Instead of nerfing these, why not buff/rework the frames who have 1-4 useless abilities in their kits?

Smite is really good with the augment though, so is shock.

Edited by AANGDETO
I am an idiot
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Turtle. said:

"It was apparent in player feedback and play testing that these Infused Warframe Abilities had the potential to be the overwhelming choice"
Well no duh these skills would be picked, do you expect people to use Ice wave or Smite? It's not that these abilities are "too good", it's that every other one sucks. Instead of nerfing these, why not buff/rework the frames who have 1-4 useless abilities in their kits?

Because doing frame re-works is what they were trying to avoid with this system in the first place. So which is easier, fixing every crap ability or just nerfing the few at the top? Hint: nerfs.

Edited by 9Drade
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
vor 12 Minuten schrieb KurtisPrime:

Roar is nowhere near the power of shock or smite but they need a mod slot for augment . Making roar the better option on general frame that have at least 250 strength and decent duration .It not as simple as you thing. And then DE will neft  shock, nourish or smite because they do ToO MuCH DaMagE.

What are talking about? Roar with the current numbers will always be better than shock or smite (given you use the same power strength).
Multiplicative >>>>> additive, plus no need of an augment mod, plus also effecting abilities.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, (PS4)Deeceem said:

Don't waste your time. People who complained about Roar being the only valid choice don't understant that there are people who don't need more damage and that there are just frames and builds that don't support this ability like low/negative strength and/or duration builds and that frames might benefit more from rounding up their kit than from bruteforcing Roar or Eclipse or whatever into them because it's a good choice in a vacuum.

I also looked into Elemental Ward (Electric) for Hildryn. Pre-testing seems promising. Still not sure if I remove her 1 or 4.

WHOOOOOO i didnt even think about Ward on hyldrin...OR a high str Wisp with her mote...holy CRAP the HP pool you would have......

 

But hildrin...with the shield regen ability....you use shields to restore shields....forever....LOL!

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Sannidor said:

Come on, there's 99% chance your main reason for MR change is feedback reminding you how excluding this is for new players.

I disagree with this line of thought but it's not rare and it will never stop surprising me how instinctively dishonest you are about most simple things, Jesus Christ... 😡

"But we need our new players, how dare you think new players should not play our game, Vets don't bring money"

I gotta agree with you here San, there is no need to do this MR shift, keep it at 15, let the new players enjoy what they have and not get their frames destroyed and then complain.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, (XB1)AbyssalRaven922 said:

Perspective for some people. The total XP required to attain mastery rank 8 is 160,000. Completing all of the junctions gets you 26,000.  All that leaves is for someone to level up 9 war frames and 22 weapons. This also includes the Archwing(+2/22 weaps) that you're required to get, and a kubrow that you're required to get.

This system is stronger than rivens and has half the prerequisites

Oh yeah and they give you a sentinel and its  weapon, and there are 12 or 13 weapons like the MK-1 set PURCHASABLE WITH CREDITS from the market. Dont tell me that's not all new player items. MR 8 is barely stepping into mid game. I'd stake money on the statement that most under MR10 don't even have a solid understanding of how the damage system currently works in the game.

Just so everyone is aware the XP for MR15 is 810,000. Wfs are 6,000xp,  weapons 3,000.

Yeah anyone who plays this game seriously will get to MR10 by accident. I did. How many weapon BPs can be bought from the market for creds? 50? More? Then there are dojo weapons/frames/archwings, all only creds. Nothing rare or hard to get at all, maybe argon crystals.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2020-08-12 at 6:27 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

1 Warframe can be subsumed every 23 hours

Can you stop with this 24h thing?, why is this a thing.

If you rush it for Plat, this is just a money sink...

Edited by Circle_of_Psi
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, danberhe said:

the problem is that there is no possible way to bring Y to the same playing-field as X, without nerfing X.

No possible way? Like, at all? Under no circumstances?

Come on dude. "Buff Y even if it means having to buff it all the way to Pluto and back" is a way.

Examples?

1) Mind Control: Affected target deals true damage that ignores shields and armor, target now also gets a fire rate boost. Target heals you based on the damage it dealt when it dies or effect is over.

2) Decoy: Increase range and make it invulnerable so it can enjoy its full duration. When duration is over, the decoy "explodes" dealing back all accumulated damage x10 at 2x range in order to compensate that it's stationary (Because it can't even compete against Octavia's Resonator otherwise).

3) Ice Wave: Buff damage to 1000 at base and multiply it by the number of enemies it hits on its path. Range increased.

4) Fire Blast (Because no Immolation for full effect): Give it Flash Accelerant, surviving enemies are affected with a max-level Blast proc, giving you some breathing room.

5) Reave (Because no Enthrall/Mesmer Skin for full effect): Base drain increased to 20%. Surviving enemies are affected with max-level Impact and Cold Procs. Range and speed increased, free casting if your HP is under 25%.   

6) Tempest Barrage: Make it Corroding Barrage by default, range and duration increased, ally movement and parkour speed increased while active. Augment renamed to "Deathly Barrage", randomly deals Viral, Gas, Radiation, Toxin.

7) Thermal Sunder (Because no Battery for max effect): Heat sunder also causes electric procs with both heat and electric damage themselves increasing the longer the enemy stays inside. Cold sunder also increases critical damage multiplier by 2x.

Few people would say that the listed abilities would not be compelling options over Roar if buffed to said extents.

I am someone who is normally OK with nerfs. Heck, I even defended the Xoris nerf!!!!! But this is a case in which special exceptions are being made in a system with many terrible abilities that had no way to compete from the start and rather than choosing abilities that would have NOT outclassed the rest by such a wide margin (Such as Ripline/Paralysis over Warcry and Charge over Roar), DE decided to hurt the goodwill they generated from Tennocon by nerfing those abilities rather than buffing the rest.

This is not on the same scale of Riven balancing or weapon balancing as those are tied to their MR ranks for an expected performance ballpark that caps how good a weapon can be. Abilities don't have that luxury because they immediately either have a purpose or they don't as they can be negatively affected in their own kits when trying to make the most out of other abilities.

Not only that, but if the base abilities are buffed, those abilities become harder to replace on their own source frames. Pissing everyone off days before the update by taking the most disliked approach just because it's easier to nerf than to buff without doing anything at all with regards to WHY those abilities are not used to begin with just reeks of self-sabotage.

Edited by Jarriaga
  • Like 6
Link to post
Share on other sites
hace 19 horas, [DE]Megan dijo:

To offer further clarification on why we changed the Mastery Rank Prerequisite to MR 8:

There's many factors that come into play in order to engage with the Helminth system, such as:

  • Having an ongoing supply of Resources that you don't need elsewhere to feed your Helminth
  • Working your way up the Helminth rankings to unlock more features
  • Having Warframes your ready/willing to Subsume

Looking at the above, we can see that higher rank players will be more equipped to offer these things to Helminth out the gate, where a MR 8 player will start with more accessible/cheaper Helminth Abilities first before diving deeper. Thus allowing MR 8 players to participate in Helminth and grow as they go.

New players already have enough grind, the more grind you introduce to them the more they are going to think this is either pay to win or just too hard, they are going to see the requirements to level up, they will believe that you can only unlock them if you pay high ammounts of money for the ammount of resources it takes and would think the entire game is the same (with things like ranking, focus, etc. being a lot to grind already) by giving them that little taste, you are killing their excitement before they have a chance to do it.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Sahansral said:

What are talking about? Roar with the current numbers will always be better than shock or smite (given you use the same power strength).
Multiplicative >>>>> additive, plus no need of an augment mod, plus also effecting abilities.

My mistake but Unless they neft Roar to buff you damage by only 15%, people would still use it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

So, nerfs as expected.  Anything remotely possible of being powerful has been determined and undermined prior to any release.  Fantastic.  Let's just assume that everything has to be as bad as air burst....and as a Zephyr main I know exactly how garbage that is.

 

Let's forget that for a moment.  Let's reframe the discussion.  What does the changing mean for the goal of the helminth system.  

Mastery Rank 8 is a joke.  160k total points.  Let's tear this back, and figure out what it actually requires.  We have 1,878,002 non-exclusive points to work with at time of writing.  This means you have to have 8.5% of all content completed before you can get access to the system.  If that's one warframe and weapons, you'll need 52 weapons and one frame.  More realistically that's a companion, a companion weapon, a frame, and 49 weapons.  More accurately, factor out the archwings and MR awarded for unlocking things and you're looking at basically being able to access the helminth system by the time you've unlocked the node to access it.  Wow, it's almost like there's no locking to the thing at all.  It's even funnier when you consider MR controls syndicate gains, so with just an MR of 8 you'll have to grind more for syndicate rep to unlock the thing in the first place.  

 

Let's also figure out the grind to unlock the thing in the first place.  Syndicate level 3 is 22k+44k+70k based upon current structures.  That means 136k standing is required, and if you spend nothing else at MR 8 that's 16 days of grind.  For players at MR 29 that'll require 5 days of grind.  Oh boy, a new feature rolling out on a Tuesday that might actually unlock on Saturday or Sunday depending upon release time and ability to grind.  That doesn't reek of delaying a feature.  Moreover, will it be something to earn at rank-up?  Other open worlds hide the good stuff behind more grind, so that Sat/Sun access might be delayed up to two days farther if we need 60-70k worth of extra syndicate points.

 

Let me be blunt here, this is why people believe DE as a developer doesn't play their game.  Moreover why people accuse DE of not wanting to have fun.  You announce and hype a system.  You release what might be interesting powers.  You then tell us there's a grind wall, and that there will be limits on powers.  That's acceptable, it'll be locked behind a MR grind wall, so the power will be earned.  On one hand that's burn-out for new players trying to get there, but more difficult is that the powers themselves are not balanced.  Your response is not to limit the system for now, like you did with PvP.  Remember when you could only use certain frames?  The limiter becomes a 24 hour timer, and pre-emptive nerfs to powers based upon feedback the community could provide without any numbers.

Topping off the nerfs, we're currently watching the system demonstrate that it's just going to be another mess.  It's a grind to get access.  It's a grind to get reputation, this time by using resources.  It's a grind to unlock more in the syndicate so that we can grind warframes to unlock powers.  All of that grind would be acceptable, if there was tangible game improvement.  Instead, anything remotely interesting is already being highlighted for nerfs.  How big, you haven't given any numbers.  Will it make the abilities not worth it, again we have to ask why even bother when it takes literal weeks of grind to produce less power than simply buying a booster and forma.  

 

 

I wasn't enthused for this system, because I thought it would only be garbage powers chosen.  I was mildly happy when the powers were listed, and there was potential for synergy.  I metered this with the fact that air burst was chosen, and you stated that certain powers would be buffed to make them worth it.  The corollary is that you'd be nerfing things that were too powerful and it was obvious to see that.  You then announced no buff stacking, which would address that.  Now you've stated that nerfs will exist, it'll be a week to unlock, there's no functional locking of the system to veteran players, and on top of all of this the mode is not being tested on a server with outside help.  No test servers means it's going to be another bad release, because your policy is to release underpowered and buff rather than nerf.

Well, at least I know the 40+ day grind to feed the thing all my frames is not going to be rewarded.  The system will be engaged with once, then spend time chilling with frame fighter, happy Zephyr, and Wyrmius as things that exist but don't influence anything beyond the Nightwave.

 

 

 

The summary of my feedback is that the nerfing prior to launch isn't unexpected, but at this point there's little reason to be excited for a system that anyone can access.  I'm not a player asking for infinite veteran content, but another open world paired with a veteran modification system held promise that definitely won't be delivered upon now. 

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, KurtisPrime said:

My mistake but Unless they neft Roar to buff you damage by only 15%, people would still use it.

It's almost like literally anyone who plays this game at all could have predicted roar would be the single best. Why did they choose roar? Just give us charge and nobody would have been upset.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Aldain said:

How would one make Excalibur's Radial Blind or Loki's Decoy comparable in power to Roar?

Radial blind doesnt need any buffs, it has a extremly strong augment and even just the base ability is very strong.

As for loki decoy, just make him a specter with your mod loadout on the frame and secondary.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, KurtisPrime said:

My mistake but Unless they neft Roar to buff you damage by only 15%, people would still use it.

There are better ways where any other stat (e.g. speed) does outbid pure raw damage increase.

Edited by iHeuksal
Link to post
Share on other sites

The precedent has been set for this game forever, and the precedent is set for the Helminth BEFORE RELEASE, anyone that dumps time, resources, and their frames into this system is a fool.

If DE thinks that nerfing powers for "an equal appeal" when the bottom of the list is Decoy and Mind Control, if you make everything on the table as appealing as literal S#&$, I'm not going to eat a little bit of every S#&$, I'm going to walk away from the #*!%ing table.

 

Helminth is Dead Before Arrival, anything good will be nerfed with this pick rate. Walk away from the Table.

 

and hopefully the mechs are still fun...

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...