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25 minutes ago, bibmobello said:

"Permanent?
Infused Abilities are removable with the click of a button - they will stay within a given Warframe as long as you decide you want it!

Subsuming a Warframe is permanent  - only Subsume Warframes you are sure you do not want to play with. You can always re-earn or re-buy a subsumed Warframe."

 

Are you telling me do I have to infuse a frame for every other frame i want to use that ability just to discover it's useless? Are you just insane?!?!?!?!

they're saying helminth can give the ability any number of times to any number of frames after eating the donating frame once, and the ability once put on a frame isn't permanent and if it's not that useful you can click it off to revert the config to normal again. you probably just need to keep the secretions up to finance the energy requirements to install and shift the abilities around in the first place.

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2 minutes ago, Darkmega18 said:

they're saying helminth can give the ability any number of times to any number of frames after eating the donating frame once, and the ability once put on a frame isn't permanent and if it's not that useful you can click it off to revert the config to normal again. you probably just need to keep the secretions up to finance the energy requirements to install and shift the abilities around in the first place.

I would like to know how much resources and time you need for that ...

Edited by bibmobello
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vor 3 Minuten schrieb (PS4)ViperInsidious_:

In my humble opinion it seems kind of pointless to nerf the most desirable abilities whilst not doing anything about abilities nobody was super excited for. Everything doesn’t have to be nerfed. What should be looked into is bringing other abilities up to the power you believe those other 6 abilities are.  

Rhino's kit is old. Roar is strong, but that's ok because the rest is a bit outdated. It evens out for this frame.
If you want to bring 40+ abilitites onpar with roar regardless of the rest of the respective warframe kits then you create a massive power creep.
You know have frames that get boosted twice. Their subsume-ability gets brought on roar level and they get another ability equivalent to roar - without having the caveats of current Rhino.
Pablo already mentioned the implications of buffing everything in his recent interview with Shy (I linked the video).
The moment DE decided to put those six abilitites into the pool, they shot themselves into the foot.

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Dear DE:

Nerfing the MR requirement from 15 to 8 has only ruined its image of being a system for veterans and players who know what they are doing. Now you are going to have little Timmies and Jimmies type in "Destroy" and subsume their warframes, THEN complain that they didn't know what they were doing and beg for their stuff back in support tickets.

And nerfing these meta abilities? You had the better and harder option to buff the most useless skills being incorporated but you just chose the simpler route of bludgeoning nerfs down on the more popular choices. No matter HOW badly you nerf roar etc., NO ONE is going to ever favour decoy over it.

ALL you have done is set the precedent that NO useful skill is safe from the chopping block. You have damaged the hype for the Helminth system with this injection of anti-hype.

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1 minute ago, Sahansral said:

Rhino's kit is old. Roar is strong, but that's ok because the rest is a bit outdated. It evens out for this frame.
If you want to bring 40+ abilitites onpar with roar regardless of the rest of the respective warframe kits then you create a massive power creep.
You know have frames that get boosted twice. Their subsume-ability gets brought on roar level and they get another ability equivalent to roar - without having the caveats of current Rhino.
Pablo already mentioned the implications of buffing everything in his recent interview with Shy (I linked the video).
The moment DE decided to put those six abilitites into the pool, they shot themselves into the foot.

It was easier to make the bad abilities usable and use them. Now again after wasting 5 formas on useless kuva weapons we need to fuse useless abilities to get MR...

Edited by bibmobello
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Just now, Sahansral said:

Rhino's kit is old. Roar is strong, but that's ok because the rest is a bit outdated. It evens out for this frame.
If you want to bring 40+ abilitites onpar with roar regardless of the rest of the respective warframe kits then you create a massive power creep.
You know have frames that get boosted twice. Their subsume-ability gets brought on roar level and they get another ability equivalent to roar - without having the caveats of current Rhino.
Pablo already mentioned the implications of buffing everything in his recent interview with Shy (I linked the video).
The moment DE decided to put those six abilitites into the pool, they shot themselves into the foot.

or hell instead of gara's crappy 3 why not her damage reduction skill?

 

Trinity's 3 instead of her 1. Or GOD FORBID her 2...jesus...

 

Mesa's shatter shield.

 

Nezha's warding halo

 

Frost's bubble...I can do this all day. They chose the TRASH skills to subsume. 

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13 minutes ago, danberhe said:

let me reitherate myself: "there is no way to buff Y to the same level of X WITHOUT killing the entire game"
for example: Yes,they could have buffed every weapon to be like bramma(the ammo nerf is stupid tho) but then LITERALLY NOTHING can defy you at that point.

WF might be  horde killer but if you make everyone a god you would kill your game in no time (and that is what happens in almost every loot game)

Abilities are not weapons, dude. Expecting for the Stug to be buffed to the level of Bramma is absurd because DE said in 2018 that weapon damage ballpark is tied to its MR rank. This means that Stug is NOT meant to compete with Bramma in any way, shape or form and people should make their peace with that. You are supposed to graduate and move on from weaker weapons to stronger weapons even if you like the weaker weapons. This is true for every single stats-based game ever since the very first Final Fantasy game in the NES. Your first weapon is not meant to compete to a weapon you get in the final dungeon.

Abilities on the other hand are not tied to MR rank. Not only that, but some frames only have 1 useful ability vs. other frames with 2 or 3, which results in those frames being used more. So unless you wish to present the argument that you are supposed to graduate from abilities in the same frame then I can't possibly agree with you. Heck, I don't think many people will agree with you.

Edited by Jarriaga
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vor 45 Minuten schrieb SpentCasings:

WHOOOOOO i didnt even think about Ward on hyldrin...OR a high str Wisp with her mote...holy CRAP the HP pool you would have......

 

But hildrin...with the shield regen ability....you use shields to restore shields....forever....LOL!

To be fair it only calculates from the frame's unmodded rank 0 base hp (heat), shields (electricity) and I believe armor (cold) works the same if I'm not mistaken. But still I'd rather use that than Roar for utility. Hildryn strips enemy defense fast enough. Kind of funny to pull enemies together with a Ferrox, cast her 2 a bunch of times and see 175 Heavy Gunners burn and electrocute themselves to death. We tested it with a Chroma with similar stats modded giving me the buff with the augment.

Edited by (PS4)Deeceem
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1 minute ago, Sahansral said:

Rhino's kit is old. Roar is strong, but that's ok because the rest is a bit outdated. It evens out for this frame.
If you want to bring 40+ abilitites onpar with roar regardless of the rest of the respective warframe kits then you create a massive power creep.
You know have frames that get boosted twice. Their subsume-ability gets brought on roar level and they get another ability equivalent to roar - without having the caveats of current Rhino.
Pablo already mentioned the implications of buffing everything in his recent interview with Shy (I linked the video).
The moment DE decided to put those six abilitites into the pool, they shot themselves into the foot.

I don't disagree with this, it just seems very predictable, and entirely avoidable by not choosing to put roar into this system in the first place. How did they not see that would easily be the #1 ability across the board? Now it needs nerfs because of their poor choices? Mmmk. Reeks of either hype driven marketing or total ignorance around their own game.

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11 minutes ago, Kald-Wing said:

In Patrick's voice: "Three! Take it or leave it"

In all seriousness I can't agree with 20+. As the system itself is for "Experienced Players" not "Veterans" specifically, though all Veterans are experienced players. Besides MR 20 is a lot of slots you have to farm through, and as an earlier post said we already have to grind 3 syndicate ranks for Entrati in order to receive the segment itself. MR 15 is a good enough balance here. Just high enough so you don't get access to it immediately but not so far off as to have to grind more than you would want.

 

MR15 was a right choice, recently i played with a lot of MR 15+ players  able to play even on high levels without dying every second. But MR8 means you don't have any gear, resource or experience to play a game correctly.

Edited by bibmobello
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Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if this system devolves to:

Those frames mentioned get their actual abilities nerfed, because that is apparently a problem.. and then so when we finally get them with helminth there shouldn't be a problem because the ability is now more in line with how nerfed they should be (whatever that's supposed to mean in a game where we're 2-shotting most things)

or

+25% Spd/Dur/Eff/Range/Str/Aspd frame dependant (similar to lich) because obv. any ability system is going to have a problem where people are picking a few of the abilities over other ones, which is apparently a problem to DE.

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Honestly, the problem with these nerfs is that abilities that were "the strongest" that got nerfed will just be swaped for unerfed abilitites and THEY will become the next in line to get delet. For example, nidus larva was (very unessesarily) nerfed. But guess what? i wasn't going to use larva to group things, because khora has, in my opinion, a BETTER larva. And that one wasn't nerfed because frankly, it does not need to

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2 minutes ago, bibmobello said:

I would like to know how much resources and time you need for that ...

seemed like super "common" resources ate like in 5000 pieces. uncommon rareish stuff was around 125 (hexenon), rare was like 3 (moon flowers) but it seems to fluctuate on the cost for various things, like, 5000 cubic diodes was pretty high. but the rare of the percentage you get for each feeding of an item was also dependent on previous feedings and how long ago the last feeding of the item was based on a green filling triangle pointing up to a red filling triangle pointing down on the screen. where full red triangle was like 2% of a 100 percentage based meter for a given secretion, and it gave 30% for a fully green filled triangle. so it definitely depends on the variety of resources you can feed. so, farm lots of different things.

Infusing abilities and taking them off was instant, but eating a frame has to leave it digest over a day, then every ability probably also has a different secretion cost. so, it's pretty damn random. but why you'd choose to put every ability on every frame once to test vs just "figuring it out via mental common sense and if that kind of thing would fit into your current build and synergize as a piece of that frames kit" is beyond me.

savvy?

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1 minute ago, CMDR_Overwerk said:

Honestly, the problem with these nerfs is that abilities that were "the strongest" that got nerfed will just be swaped for unerfed abilitites and THEY will become the next in line to get delet. For example, nidus larva was (very unessesarily) nerfed. But guess what? i wasn't going to use larva to group things, because khora has, in my opinion, a BETTER larva. And that one wasn't nerfed because frankly, it does not need to

Too late. People are gonna switch to that and its gonna get nerfed....

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Some (a few) missions in the steel path are somewhat challenging.

But even lvl 100 sortie missions are really easy, cheesable even.

edit : fair warning, I didn't finish the steel path yet, but I like it so far

Edited by AANGDETO
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Just now, Jarriaga said:

Abilities are not weapons, dude. Expecting for the Stug to be buffed to the level of Bramma is absurd because DE said in 2018 that weapon damage ballpark is tied to its MR rank. This means that Stug is NOT meant to compete with Bramma in any way, shape or form and people should make their peace with that. You are supposed to graduate and move on from weaker weapons to stronger weapons even if you like the weaker weapons. This is true for every single stats-based game ever since the very first Final Fantasy game in the NES. Your first weapon is not meant to compete to a weapon you get in the final dungeon.

Abilities on the other hand are not tied to MR rank. Not only that, but some frames only have 1 useful ability vs. other frames with 2 or 3, which results in those frames being used more. So unless you wish to present the argument that you are supposed to graduate from abilities in the same frame then I can't possibly agree with you. Heck, I don't think many people will agree with you.

The warframe are Gated because stronger one are tied to the planet progression. The "OP" frame are in quest and are MR gate already.

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Sigh, there goes all my hype for this system, with that tiny little strike-through number. When you say you're making a system tailored around veteran players, and thusly also balanced around what we can already do, and then just make it MR 8  instead of MR 15 to get access... It just shows your promises mean #*!% all. Your average active player is supposedly MR 10-11. 5 MR ranks is really not that hard to get if you want it, just buy the weapons who's bp is available in the market, build and level them.
Now it's gonna be balanced around them, rather than the older players, who have most frames anyways, and just want to toy around with goofy stuff.
I get some of the nerfs proposed, and depending on the actual numbers it might not be too bad, but regardless, it already shows the mentality behind the system. Nerfs rather than buffs. Let's not make decoy good or fun or interesting, let's make larva bad instead!
For anyone who has hype left: remember that breach surge will be nerfed in the same fashion, thanks to garuda, ensnare as well, since it's pretty equivalent to larva, and smite infusion and the volt equivalent too, because they'll probably be too strong as well. Don't forget that 100% armor strip is too strong as well (cfr. corrosive nerfs in february), so anything (i.e. ash, hildryn) that gets there, or close, will be nerfed as well! Have fun everyone, it's gonna be totes amazing.

Ah well, guess I'll check out the heart of deimos by the end of september or something, when most of the disappointing stuff DE will still ram through has passed, and it's another system they leave to rot in the dust. Another pretty little content isle of broken hype and dreams. And now that we finally had a tennocon where the promises they made seemed actually achieveable too.

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Imagine creating something intended to be accessed later in the game by high mastery players...

 

....and then making absolutely sure that new players can access it within 1 week of installing the game.

Edited by LewdInspector
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