The Helminth: Dev Workshop

[(PSN)WretchedMoon]

I wish there was a way to say anything where everyone would understand. This is as close as I can come.

A seven+ year veteran, compared to me, a three year veteran. The ONLY difference between us? A few cosmetic items from events that happened before I started playing. 

Now, does that sound rewarding to anyone?

You have nothing to show for your time played, or your invested effort or money. 

As a new player, I almost quit because the hill was so daunting. About a month ago, I finally maxed out all of my schools. Yes, I could have finished them faster if I had min/maxed, Equinox'd the whole thing. Sometimes there is something to be said about the journey. Most new players, (myself included) watch YouTube videos, to figure out what you're supposed to be doing next. You hear all this information, you grasp it, but then you realize you need materials to build things, MR to use certain weapons/frames. then you feel like you're behind the 8-ball the whole time. Look, you aren't going to get ANYWHERE in this game overnight. But we see these videos, and see this content that looks so fun, that we completely ruin it by rushing thru it, to get somewhere you were going to end up anyways. (If you engage with all of the systems, rather than listening to all the min/maxers.)

Now, what about those players who spent all that time, or hell, even rushed they it, but they stayed and became a veteran along the way? Something that was supposed to be a reward for YOU! Specifically! Something to set you apart from someone who min/maxed for a month or so. even showed you what you would have access to!

Then, nevermind, "you get a helminth, you get a helminth, EVERYONE GETS A HELMINTH!!!!" 

Yeah. 

Maybe even simpler: You're a kid. It's your birthday. But your mom tells you you have to give half of your gifts away to the neighbor, because they're poor. As a kid, altruism doesn't exist. Why do I have to give up my stuff, because someone else's parent didn't give their kid anything? it's not even his birthday! What kind of sense does that make? 

Don't get me wrong, it's great if you're the neighbor kid. 

Because it's somebody's birthday everyday, amirite?

[NoMicTENNO]

Le 19/08/2020 à 19:40, Traubenzuckr a dit :

hydroid 1 with augment should be fine for oberon, making for a synergizing DoT AoE combo with CC coming from both abilities (radiation and knockdown)

or you could just roar and shoot them mfs... hell dont even need roar just shoot! the point is that making the apealling choices worst instead of making the less apealing choices better just hurts the helmith system overall making it less apealing.

[Amazing_Miggles]

I don't care about MR lockout, but still find it odd to place a resource sink feature on a level where you still are unlocking a lot of stuff competing for the same resources. 

If someone found their comfort zone with a particular loadout at a certain MR, good for you! But that shouldn't be used as an argument to place a feature designed to slow down contents consumption (resource sink) to a stage where you've only tried a small portion of the game's diverse arsenal.

That's probably where MR 15 initially came from, since that's when you unlock almost everything MR locked so that player has had the chance to say 'I tried a lot of things and I am comfortable with this loadout'

My proposal is for DE to just revise their MR locked weapons etc and lower them to match the resource sink, I reckon. Let people make the choice to dump resource where they want.

[SweetAnubis]

1 hour ago, Lutesque said:

And the 2nd thing. Are players only going to be able to use only 2 Abilities from Ivara's Empowered Quiver ? If so... Why is Noise Arrow one of them ? 

Noise Arrow literally does not work without Prowl and Sleep Arrow so why is it there ? It would be better to just give only Cloak Arrow... That way players won't accidentally waste Energy on an ability that doesn't work.

Unless if you plan on Buffing Noise Arrow... 😮

 

*laughs in DE* buff lols no what will likely happen is they realize people only use the stealth arrow then  nerf the stealth arrow instead of buffing noise arrow

 

as for why only those two the argument people are making is the dashline augment which requires you to use a mod slot to get the stationary buff at all is somehow more powerful than the buffs that let u buff urself or ur entire team no matter where u are and no matter how much u move without requiring mods. no they dont require mods to apply the buffs. they may not last as long or be as strong without optomized mods but a free buff is still a buff even if it isnt maxed out

[Darkest_Fire]

I tihnk the problem is that some things just don't work on others. THe main use of fire blast was to cool off ember's meter. using it for anything else is just sucky. I would rather use fireball.

[HatedByLifeItself]

Il y a 4 heures, QuinnCarter a dit :

Yeah, it sucks that the seemingly best abilities for subsuming are getting nerfed before the system is even out, but we don't even know by how much yet. And regardless of the nerfs, the functionality of those abilities are gonna remain same. Dispensary is still going to give you more energy than you used to make it, Warcray still has its augment, and Roar is, well, Roar.

The problem isn't the numbers. It's the nerf itself. Why bring the useful abilities down if you could bring useless abilities up. 

Also, if they nerf the abilities by 80% or something, it's probably not that worth, but still more worth than S#&$ abilities like Loki's 1, nyx's 1 ... et cetera

[(PSN)NeunDrachen]

After awhile, you just numb yourself to the crowd. Theres good points on both sides but ppl get too caught up in their emotions to come to a conclusion. 

 

Gotta remember, alot off ppl online follow youtubers as well and id say a majority of the time somebody complains, its because they were influenced in some way during their playthroughs of the game. If wf had an ending, i bet you half the ppl claiming to want "whats best for the community" would have just up and left after they reached endgame. The fact that we dont have that is keeping those players in limbo where they just frustrate themselves cause they have nothing better to do with their time. 

Ive taken several breaks from wf throughout the yrs. Id suggest if ppl find that theyre not getting what they want, just take a break for awhile. If that doesnt help then maybe its time to just hang up yer helmet. 

I remember when the melee rework came out. Holy hell was the forums filled with salt with several ppl claiming theyre done with the game or itll die, etc. I even remember one youtuber saying how fed up he was with de and quit only to backpedal a month later lol. Ppl that are neutral seem to always be fine during these times and thats probably how its always gonna be.

@HatedByLifeItself whats wrong with experimenting with the other abilities and finding ways to improve the frames you like tho? Not everything has to be clear cut and warframes always encouraged diversity. Ppl just mindlessly follow the meta because if youre not playing "the right way" youre doing it wrong

[(XBOX)Skylar McCloud]

On 2020-08-12 at 12:52 PM, Voltage said:

Oh boy. Here we go. This looks impossible to balance, and the damage ability buff restriction won't change much of anything. Let's see how it plays out.

After reading comments, and looking through these changes more than once, I am convinced that this will be nerfed after being released. It would be nice for DE to tune this or reconsider some decisions before launching so nobody is getting burned 😞 

We all saw the nerf coming,but it's getting Nerfed already,not because they are too powerful. instead because it's too popular. Roar eclipse WARCRY,Larva and defy. Simply because these are the top choices. so they are nerfing them to make the other choices more appealing. It's like cutting up Tyra Banks's face to make Kathy Griffin more appealing. Smh

 

[--DSP--strikeBandit]

Nerfing something that isn't launched yet because of how popular it is with players... Why don't you just make other abilities more interesting, DE?

[HatedByLifeItself]

il y a 27 minutes, (PS4)NeunDrachen a dit :

@HatedByLifeItself whats wrong with experimenting with the other abilities and finding ways to improve the frames you like tho? Not everything has to be clear cut and warframes always encouraged diversity. Ppl just mindlessly follow the meta because if youre not playing "the right way" youre doing it wrong

Meta ? You lost me there. You can try to experiment as much as you want with Nyx's 1, no one's holding you back. I don't care about what people do to their frames, but you can't come to me and say that all the abilities are good because we can test them out. 

[0_The_F00l]

DONT YOU TELL ME WHEN TO LOSE MY MIND , I WILL LOSE MY MIND WHEN I WANT TO!

*proceeds to lose mind*

Could someone help me find my mind? i lost it , not sure how or when, and now i cant get any work done.

[St4-tic]

I remember 4 months ago when you guys apologized for releasing 3 extremely disappointing headline updates. I really thought for a moment that you guys learned from your mistakes, and would put out good content that was worth getting hyped for... I was wrong.

You have learned nothing from your mistakes, and continue to deliberately crush peoples' hopes of having powerful builds, and creating ways to push our frames to their limits. This is not a PVP game, and you should stop this ridiculous effort to try to balance it as if it is. There will always be a "most powerful option", and it doesn't "limit player choice" for good options to exist.

Stop kneecapping your updates that people are legitimately hyped for. Your dreams of "lifting the whole of Warframe" are continually crushed, and you only have yourselves to blame. I will preemptively drop this update in the bucket as yet another disappointing update you have put out, and that I shouldn't be excited for it's release. In a way, it's remarkable how you have managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory here.
 

[Lutesque]

4 hours ago, keen said:

 

1: I think MR15 is fine for the Helminth system actually, I feel like this is more of an endgame kinda system. Less complexity for new players, since I'm running a new player through in my clan and realizing how much stuff has changed. Infact why not make it MR20 to really make players feel like they earned it!

As long as Affinity Farming sucks ass I think MR 15 is too high...also Endgame is overrated.

Also if you picked Mag as your Starter Warframe then why should you wait until End Game to get rid of Pull ? 

4 hours ago, keen said:

 

2: Everyone complaining about Roar being OP, so throw the Riven system at it. The more people sacrifice and install an ability, the less effective it is. Less used abilities get stronger. Self balancing!

Because The Riven System is great 😐

yeah this is a terrible idea for all the same reasons Rivens are terrible.

 

[(XBOX)Skylar McCloud]

So they are Nerfing Helminth already? The reasoning is what gets me,because player feedback on certain abilities. These abilities are gaining popularity before the release. So in True Hipster fashion.If it's popular it's obviously bad so let's nerf it,to make the less popular option more appealing.That wouId be like Slicing up Tyra Bank's face just to make Kathy Griffin more appealing.I agree with Potato,and Brozime.Instead of nerfing Larva,Eclipse,Roar,andWarcry.Simply because they would be the most popular choice. How about the less appealing powers on the list.Either replace those with a better ability or make those abilities better. Pull,Decoy,Tempest Barrage (which is literally a watered down version of world on fire) Buff it up a little bit so that it will be a more appealing option. Or replace it like Pull for example the same as Val Kitty's rip line for the most part. Except it doesn't give you the spider girl zip across the room. Replace it with something better. Loki's decoy. Make it so that it can actually deal some damage. Or replace it with Radial Disarm. Tempest Barrage buff it a little bit so that it's worth using. a watered down World on Fire is Still world on fire dang it. 

                                   DE preaches they want you to have Diversity in your blase blase blah,and don't want players to feel they are trapped choosing this,or this because it's the best option. It's not that we feel stuck using blah blah blah. We use it because,we like what we like.Secondly nerfing something because it's popular,If it's "O.P." that's one thing. (which aI still don't understand for a PVE game but I digress). Killing a weapon or frame just because it's popular,because a lot of people like it. That's just bad.Then to say. We want to encourage variety,then give us other options that don't suck. So Because the Stugg is a crap weapon the Soma should suffer. Instead of trying to make us play the game,how you want us to play the game. Let us THE PLAYERS,play the game and have fun. 

[(XBOX)DSE ShadowZ]

Sirriously DE if you see this reply, WHYYY WHYY tell me WHYYYYYYYY not make garbage abilitys a little bit better, instead of ALLWAYS NERFING anything fun! Its lik you guys dont wanna give us some fun, ofcourse i love warframe and ive been playing for 6 years.. but its starting to wear out!! You come up with a really good idea but then just murdering it, it aas perfect for older players, but now again.. failing all them who have been here for so long, wish it wasnt, hopefully it will be better in a year again, because alot of people are not going to bother with it, PLEASE make dumb abilitys a little better, instead of NERFING everything, thank you for making this game i love it, but when everything gets nerfed, at some point theres nothing to play with.

Goodday from the netherlands!

[(PSN)NeunDrachen]

17 minutes ago, HatedByLifeItself said:

Meta ? You lost me there. You can try to experiment as much as you want with Nyx's 1, no one's holding you back. I don't care about what people do to their frames, but you can't come to me and say that all the abilities are good because we can test them out. 

You basically said whats wrong with everyone complaining about the nerfs atm. 

All i meant by the meta comment is that a vast majority of the ppl complaining about either for or against the update are the same ones that would copy paste an ability on their frame just because its the most effective way to kill things. Not because it might make the frame fun or synergize with the frame you put it on. 

[(PSN)DonkeyBong79]

when has DE kinda nerfed something when they nerf they go all out to where that weapon or ability is useless so players will stop using it bad thing i don't think they will stop at those ability's i see a lot of hot fix nerf's coming rip new update

[GreyZetsu]

if you put out 32 plates 5 of them with steak on them and the rest with dog doodoo you shouldnt be surprised that players will overwhelmingly go for the steak. Burning the steak is not a solution, maybe replace the dog doodoo with fish, chicken, fruits...you know something that can compete with the 5 plates of steak. Nerfing the steak just kills the hype and depresses players who where hyped over this new helminth system.

[Lutesque]

59 minutes ago, SweetAnubis said:

*laughs in DE* buff lols no what will likely happen is they realize people only use the stealth arrow then  nerf the stealth arrow instead of buffing noise arrow

That sounds about right 😞

1 hour ago, SweetAnubis said:

as for why only those two the argument people are making is the dashline augment which requires you to use a mod slot to get the stationary buff at all is somehow more powerful than the buffs that let u buff urself or ur entire team no matter where u are and no matter how much u move without requiring mods. no they dont require mods to apply the buffs. they may not last as long or be as strong without optomized mods but a free buff is still a buff even if it isnt maxed out

Empowered Quiver is my favourite Augment and there was a time when I would let everyone in my Squad know that Dashwire buffs Crits in addition to placing my Wires in areas that offer the best Tactical Advantages... nobody cared... Nobody jumped on my Wires...

Now that the Helminth is a thing all of a sudden it's too powerful ?

It's clear whoever is against Dashwire doesn't play Ivara 😛

 

[IRVoidGuru]

Heart of Deimos supporters packs announced on ps4 today.

This Made me think about " do I support this update? " and iv found for the first time In years of playing your game i do not support this update. You advertised this update in 2 parts, the open world for the newer players. And Helminth for "very experienced warframe players". Then chose to lower stats of powers before we even got the chance to play it.

If that wasn't bad enough you then came back and made your previous statement a lie by lowering the requirements for the system. MR 8 is too low and if this is the insisted number then can you at least make a second lock requiring access to arbitration (normal mode starchart completed)? This will force experience on these Players.

Ill wait for my final opinion for launch obviously, because to spite what half of these opinions say I have faith that you will do better than this before the finish line. 

[HatedByLifeItself]

il y a 2 minutes, (PS4)NeunDrachen a dit :

All i meant by the meta comment is that a vast majority of the ppl complaining about either for or against the update are the same ones that would copy paste an ability on their frame just because its the most effective way to kill things. Not because it might make the frame fun or synergize with the frame you put it on. 

For some people, effectiveness is fun. Also, people will realize that Roar and damage buffing abilities aren't that worth it since we already have damage. They will only show when used on weaker frames IMO. Even without these nerfs, people would have eventually chosen things other than damage. 

[selig_fay]

1 hour ago, SweetAnubis said:

as for why only those two the argument people are making is the dashline augment which requires you to use a mod slot to get the stationary buff at all is somehow more powerful than the buffs that let u buff urself or ur entire team no matter where u are and no matter how much u move without requiring mods. no they dont require mods to apply the buffs. they may not last as long or be as strong without optomized mods but a free buff is still a buff even if it isnt maxed out

Or I might get something more useful or fun that suits my build better. Now you are like the person who puts arcane energyze in Trinity just because it is arcane energyze.

[(PSN)NeunDrachen]

1 minute ago, HatedByLifeItself said:

For some people, effectiveness is fun. Also, people will realize that Roar and damage buffing abilities aren't that worth it since we already have damage. They will only show when used on weaker frames IMO. Even without these nerfs, people would have eventually chosen things other than damage. 

Oh i know, varying playstyles and all that. Like i said, warframes always been about diversity but then you have ppl with a platform and audience saying "this is the most op build" fer example and ppl eat that S#&$ up without question only to whine and complain when something changes and they suddenly have to figure stuff out on their own.

Its the same cycle when the melee rework happened imo. Ppl complaining about the update and relevant nerfs and after the dust settles, just business as usual. The negativity on the forums tho always blows my mind when i see it. 

[AldehydeBackhand]

Well, it's not a good way to make sure nobody uses those abilities, but it is a way.

As other abilities find themselves becoming popular, please don't do this thing; punishing the desired effect isn't conducive to continuing to get any sort of effect at all.

[KesslerCOIL]

On 2020-08-20 at 12:26 PM, (XB1)YoungGunn82 said:

I disagree with the whole Master Rank approach as a prerequisite. 
 

solution: MR has nothing to do with experience or game progression. Throw that out. If you guys wanted it to be for “experienced players” than having finished the Nidus quest and Umbra quest should be the prerequisite not MR < 8. That at least makes more sense. 

Imo MR should be more about pacing content out.
An MR8 player has access to almost all the content in the game and would have completed almost none of it.