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Here is honestly what I think should have been done. 

Keep it MR 15, keep the "nerfed" abilities the way they are, buff some of the augments for the less popular abilities (Augments 2.0). 

Because here is the thing, I was already not planning on using Roar, Eclipse or Defy when this came out (Defy the meta), the only abilities I was excited for (out of these six) were Larva and to a small extent Warcry. 

Now Larva has a nerfed range of who knows what making it potentially useless. 

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4 hours ago, IceBen said:

This is specifically about the damage buffs. You can't use multiple damage buff abilities on one frame, it is possible that damage augments get the same treatment, and won't be allowed.

Yeah, they could further nerf it. 😞

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5 minutes ago, (PS4)thegarada said:

Curb power creep?

There is no powercreep at all, just they know some abilities they put are completely useless(nobody wants them at all) so they want to bring all other abilities that are transferred to trash tier. But that is a surprise they do it before people spent time/money to get those, usually they do it after.

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Honstly skills like roar, eclipse etc arent exactly "fun"... By themselves. They're just stat buffs that need to be maintained. A lot of the time they cant even be used well on builds because they usually require large amounts of power strength or range which quite a few builds actually dont use. The fun is what those abilities unlock in terms of porential for weapons and skills you couldnt use effectively prior because the stats for killing just werent there. Its pretty sad to see them nerfed before people even got the chance to test their viability on their builds. I know a lot of mine wouldnt have use for them. 

Seems like a poor choice only days before intended release date. 

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Please do not nerf abilities. We can only equip 1 per frame, and only 1 damage increase per frame, that's restriction enough to maintain balance. The reason why those abilities will be popular is that they bridge gaps in current kits for many frames, making those frames usable and competitive with the top tier frames. Just leave them as is. If you want other abilities to be more competitive, choose some of the better abilities from other frames, and boost the abilities so they are more competitive. For example:

Revenant: Give mesmer skin instead of reave.

Nova: Make it possible to recast Null Star to refresh orbs.

Then, you have 4 very good options to choose for defensive abilities, each work slightly differently. On high strength builds, you'd go for Null Star, low strength, mesmer skin. High armor, Defy or Elemental Ward.

Full list of such suggested changes below:

On 2020-08-12 at 1:27 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

WARFRAME

ABILITY

AUGMENT

Thiadon NOTES

Ash

Shuriken

Seeking Shuriken

This is a good ability, people may not realize.

Atlas

Petrify

Ore Gaze

We will not create Rubble, however, we will increase base cone area to 180 degrees, adding range can increase it to 360 degrees. This increase should also be for the base ability.

Banshee

Sonar

 

As with other damage increasing abilities, this will replace Roar, etc. on frames that have them.

Baruuk

Lull

Endless Lullaby

This is a good ability, people may not realize.

Chroma

Elemental Ward

Everlasting Ward

This is a good ability, people may not realize.

Ember

Fire Blast

Healing Flame

This is a good ability, people may not realize.

Equinox

Rest & Rage

Calm & Frenzy

We will use Rest or Rage depending on your Energy Colour. This is a good ability, people may not realize.

Excalibur

Radial Blind

Radiant Finish

This is probably the best option for Excalibur's existing kit, maybe increase duration.

Frost

Ice Wave

Ice Wave Impede

Change ice wave to be a 360 degree aoe that does a percentage of enemy's health per tick, affected by strength, and creates a lasting frozen area which can freeze enemies walking on it over time.

Gara

Splinter storm

 

Gives an additional damage reduction option, Spectrorage will not get used without Gara's other synergies.

Garuda

Blood Altar

n/a

This is a good ability, people may not realize.

Gauss

Thermal Sunder

n/a

Change Thermal Sunder to be a percentage of enemy health, affected by strength.

Grendel

Nourish

n/a

Keeps the heal and give Nourish Strike only. This is a good ability, people may not realize.

Harrow

Penance

 

Comparable to Warcry, give us Penance instead.

Hildryn

Pillage

Blazing Pillage

Drains 50 Energy instead of 50 Shield. This is a good ability, people may not realize.

Hydroid

Tempest Barrage

Corroding Barrage

Change from corrosive to an armor stripping effect that can reach 100% (like Ash Shuriken) with enough power strength.

Inaros

Desiccation

Desiccation’s Curse

This is a good ability, people may not realize. Maybe increase the base damage and health drain a bit.

Ivara

Quiver

Empowered Quiver

Give the full ability or give us Prowl.

Khora

Ensnare

n/a

This is probably the best option. Increase radius and duration significantly.

Limbo

Banish

Rift Haven

Base Ability Change: Add ‘Cancel ability on Hold’ to let enemies out of Rift. Additional change to make the ability do damage as a percent of enemy health, which scales with power strength.

Loki

Radial Disarm

 

Loki's kit needs a serious rework. He has not aged well. Radial disarm is the only usable ability, on top of giving us that ability, make it also increases damage to enemies affected.

Mag

Pull

Greedy Pull

This is a good ability, people may not realize. Boost radius.

Mesa

Shooting Gallery

Muzzle Flash

This is a good ability, people may not realize. Needs a bit of a boost to the effect and the duration to make it competitive.

Mirage

Eclipse

Total Eclipse

As is, no nerf required.

Nekros

Terrify

Creeping Terrify

This is probably the best choice from Nekros's kit. Increase armor reduction to be able to reach 100% at 300% power strength.

Nezha

Fire Walker

Pyroclastic Flow

Change damage to be a percentage of enemy health, scaling with power strength.

Nidus

Larva

Larva Burst

As is, no nerf required.

Nova

Null Star

Neutron Star

Make it possible to recast Null Star to refresh orbs.

Nyx

Psychic Bolts

 

Psychic Bolts would have been a better choice.

Oberon

Smite

Smite Infusion

This is a good ability, people may not realize. Needs an increase to the % of health damage though.

Octavia

Resonator

 

Metronome would be a better choice, either that or change resonator to do a % of enemy health, increasing with the number of enemies charmed.

Protea

Dispensary

n/a

As is, no nerf required.

Revenant

Mesmer Skin

 

Give mesmer skin as mentioned above.

Rhino

Roar

Piercing Roar

As is, no nerf required.

Saryn

Molt

Regen Molt

Double or triple base radius, make it do a percentage of enemy health, multiplying by the number of enemies distracted. Or give Toxic lash.

Titania

Spellbind

Spellbound Harvest

This is a good ability, people may not realize. Needs a significantly increased radius.

Trinity

Well Of Life

Pool of Life

Base Ability Buffed - Now does small amount of heal over time over a large range. If you hit the enemy, a % of the damage dealt gets converted into AoE heal. This is a good ability, people may not realize.

Valkyr

Warcry

Eternal War

As is, no nerf required.

Vauban

Tesla Nervos

Tesla Bank

This is a good ability, people may not realize.

Volt

Speed

 

Speed is the Volt equivalent to Warcry.

Wisp

Breach Surge

n/a

This is a good ability, people may not realize.

Wukong

Defy

n/a

As is, no nerf required. Giving cloud walker would also be an alternative option, as much as I would hate to lose the exclusivity as a Wukong main.

Xaku

Xata’s Whisper 

n/a

Can't comment.

Zephyr

Airburst

n/a

Base Ability Buffed - now has a HOLD or TAP functionality. HOLD to receive original functionality. TAP to suck enemies in a wind Vortex. Change ability to do a percent of enemy health, scaling with power strength.

 

And that's it. Now pretty much every ability is an attractive option, and can really help out those frames whose kits are lacking in one area or another. As for the rest, I'm MR24 and don't care when people can access Helminth.

Edited by Thiadon
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3 hours ago, (NSW)H4YKEN1987 said:

Are we talking about the same game? 

this is a Warframe forum! 

Considering I mentioned "Warframe" 10 times... Yeah. Why are you confused? You didn't know DE spoon feeds the players constantly when compared to other basic games? I take it the NSW means you play on the Switch, yes? So maybe you're a newer player and have no idea what U20 means, or maybe you didn't know at one point Xini was a Corpus controlled map and was used to farm unlimited amounts of Syndicate rep and most players (Myself included) got Rank 5 in all their Syndicates day 1, or that Tonkor use to be a fun weapon and allowed players to rocket jump like you were in Quake or something. Understandable. But yes, we are talking about the same game. Warframe didn't use to be like this, you know? Today we got an infestation of avocados who want everything and more the instant they install the game. "Screw the vets, you old geezers don't deserve nothing! Go die alone in a retirement home already!" and dumb crap like that. Without the vets, Warframe wouldn't be a thing. We stood by DE for years. Without that, Warframe wouldn't be a thing. All we want is something for us. We want something that the babies can't have right away, something they gotta work towards, and let me tell you Warframe needs something like that. We got no goals in Warframe. If you asked me what my end goal was, I honestly couldn't give you an actual answer. That is why people are upset over all the nerfs and the drop to the MR lock. This was suppose to be a system for veterans but all the whiny babies had to protest because they couldn't have a shiny new toy right away. They don't want to play the game for more than a day before uninstalling, they want it all now, to get a quick fix of dopamine, then leave, making the overall game worse for those of us who actually stuck around. I've seen it happen far to much in recent years. Plains of Eidolon was suppose to be a veteran experience. When night came and you weren't strong enough, you got ejected. What did we get instead? Well, a boring skybox with no challenge that anyone logging in for the first time can do in the first hour.

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27 minutes ago, (PS4)thegarada said:

Curb power creep?

How does it curb power creep? You can still get the same abilities via other squad members. All this does is make the 'best' options a bit worse, ignoring the rest of the abilities, many of which should be getting buffed or reworked.

There are two options with these nerfs

1. The nerfs aren't enough to make the abilities not worth using.

2. The nerfs make them all pointless, and people will flock to the next bracket of 'best' abilities. Then one or two weeks post-launch DE will probably nerf those abilities.

What it won't do is make people say 'You know what Mesa needs? Mind Control'

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15 hours ago, OniDax said:

Ok. So, how would you ensure that this system is one designed for veteran/experienced players and one that is not intended for newer players?

Put it behind The Sacrifice, time investment and progression rather than "Hey look I leveled up a vanilla Hind can I use the Helminth now?".

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5 hours ago, (NSW)H4YKEN1987 said:

The main reason of lowering the MR to 8 is cause the new players attracted with the new advertising, will feel scammed or will get bored in the process to get MR15, the burn out of leveling 40 frames and useless weapons (and in the best case an epilectic attack) will reduce the game to only the worst part, Hidrion. and they will loose eventually the interest in this HUGE game, that have a lot of things, is really super easy to loose track, if you don't realize what is the most important thing, i have a lot of friends that never played again, just thinking in the lot of things they have to do just to get on track.

Warframe is all about:

  1. Mods (with no mods ... is hard to play/ nothing works)
  2. Endo (with no endo, no mods /so ... is hard to play)
  3. Formas / Reactors / Catalyst (with no Forma/Catalys /Reactor No Mods, ... is hard to play)
  4. Resources (with no resources no Weapons/Frames to put mods on)
  5. Credits / Weapons / Frames (With no credits no weapons, no frames so No Game)

to achieve all that... you have to play a lot, so even the newer mr8 will need to spend a lot of hours to unlock the feature, so is not the same saying

"YOU CAN'T"

hillary clinton no GIF

 

than:

"yes of course is there"

Jack Nicholson Reaction GIF

but with the trap that they can't access that part til they spend a lot of hours.

That's why they give Hydroid, cause is nice farming stuff, (with the syndicate mod) and the newer players will need it.

So still is for veteran players. the actual Master Rank thing do not represent a veteran player.

thats all folks GIF

Yeah, the MR requirement doesn't really matter IMO. I think they have one as to not overwhelm new players.

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15 minutes ago, VoreoTheDragon said:

So which frames (excluding quest ones locked behind simaris because no thanks) should i grind, i see rhino for sure again... but not entirely sure who else.

Im someone who only kept frames up till i had their primes 😞

That heavily depends on what you play mainly. 

Garuda plays well with Wisps ability for example, but breach surge is not that good on other frames.

You can go with the general best choices (all Frames where the ability got nerfed) as those abilities even severely nerfed are better than most other options, although most of them require Simaris standing. (If you have SteelPath, you can get Simaris rep quite fast in the Kuva Fortress)

I would recommend going through the ability list and picking the once you think would fit a frame that you play. But in my opinion most abilities are not really good on any frame, and most are only good on a couple (excluding again the once that were nerfed).

 

Edit: Defy might not be a great option for most frames as well.

Edited by NameTryNr67
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18 minutes ago, Nox_Terminus said:

How does it curb power creep? You can still get the same abilities via other squad members. All this does is make the 'best' options a bit worse, ignoring the rest of the abilities, many of which should be getting buffed or reworked.

There are two options with these nerfs

1. The nerfs aren't enough to make the abilities not worth using.

2. The nerfs make them all pointless, and people will flock to the next bracket of 'best' abilities. Then one or two weeks post-launch DE will probably nerf those abilities.

What it won't do is make people say 'You know what Mesa needs? Mind Control'

LOL, exactly or Decoy on Mesa 😄
It is PvE so I don't see the power creep problem if you even want to call it that. I just see it as a better way to customize and run solo or have new unique squads.
DE has said in the past they don't worry about power creep but now they are!?

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.

Just leaving this . here to check up on it in a few days or weeks (to see if it is still here or not), to see if DE is actually going through the responses to this thread, 180-something pages in.

If they're going through the replies on this thread, then it likely won't be here, soon enough.

If it is not here at that point in time, then it might be worth providing feedback, since this would mean that it is more likely for feedback to be taken at all from this thread.

Edited by shootaman777
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You know what?

Let's buff everything to roar level!

"The Origin System is ever-changing. Our enemies grow more stressful by the day. It is time to ease the burden of challenge. Forget what you have learned. Relax. To the victor, my esteem... and the spoils. I will be waiting. Will you walk the Noodle Path?"

 

DE, please just implement another star chart variant and multiply all skill numbers by 2, nono, by 5....ah damn by 10!
Doesn't matter it's PvE-game, does it?
Also, according to forum posters that isn't power creep and if it is power creep, then we learned that power creep is thing we should embrace, right? 
 

(Sorry, just my passive-aggressive reply to those "I leave WF forever!!" - statements.)

Edited by Sahansral
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4 minutes ago, Nasair said:

You can use the augment.

Which makes it inferior to Eclipse which you get the full damage reduction benefit constantly without needing to use a mod. The mod for Null Star should cause the orbs to launch and do damage (percentage of health-based again to make it scalable). Recasting without the mod just refreshes the defense. The problem is that without molecular prime, and without the mod, there is currently no way to keep the defense buff up. Even with this change, Eclipse is still comparatively better because stepping into a different light instantly changes it to a damage increase.

Edited by Thiadon
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18 minutes ago, Aldain said:

Put it behind The Sacrifice, time investment and progression rather than "Hey look I leveled up a vanilla Hind can I use the Helminth now?".

So, quest lock it. I'm all for that, really. I'm just not sure that will ensure that only experienced players interact with the system. In general, I think more content should be quest-locked as opposed to MR locking it, but that requires DE to really clean up when they provide access to quests. For example, Deadlock Protocol is available way early in the game's progression, yet its content and story is really geared for post-Sacrifice content.

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