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The Helminth: Dev Workshop


[DE]Rebecca

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3 minutes ago, (XB1)ALTBOULI said:

These nerfs to powers I.e. Roar, eclipse etc, does it also apply to the original warframe as well or is it just a nerf in the helmet system?

It only applies to the Helminth system. The original abilities on the original frames aren't being touched.

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2 hours ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

Do you work for DE? Do you work for the media? Do you have decades of experience in the gaming industry? Or are you really just randomly suggesting the game is gonna die because they won't let you have a strong Roar?

I mean it IS dying from a entire year of bad content, hence why its studio is being sold on the first place, yes people are still playing, NEW players exited from whats has essentially a smoke screen at this point, its not because of the nerfs, its because they have failed to make it compelling for the "Veteran" playerbase, they've lost their ability to make their game compelling enough to make player, specially years old players to keep supporting or playing the game, This is not about experience or working with them, you can clearly see it, I don't even need to take part of this system on the first place, I've come to a point where my entire experience playing any mission is a power fantasy, last time I died to something while playing was only because I forgot for more than 30 seconds to use invisibility on steel path, which I was willing to make only to farm the frames I wanted for this system. This update only brings me a sense of variety where I can at least have an extra skill to actually use, and something to do on a empty ceiling with nothing to look up to.

I literally started playing, advanced, reached almost 3k hours and got bored of the game, waiting for The New War, and it never came, and I can assure you, They'll use the current pandemic to "Release" it until next year. Ever since fortune I understood this is but a smokescreen that offers content, and whenever you get to it, you just find everything halfway done, everything already unlocked before three weeks of playtime, and when they explicitly say that a new system will be implemented specifically for "Veteran" players is being placed at MR8, and getting abilities nerfed, and to be honest I don't even care if they were nerfed to half their effectiveness, that was more than expected, but that they keep pushing content smokescreen style, show a great cinematic overly broken new thing, just to give us a final product not even worth the time, half baked, and underwhelming, and, on top of that, not tested by the community itself, every single time they've base their changes on whatever new players want, which end up massively overwhelmed, thinking that so many features, so many things unlocked, will be as deep as those trailers, leaving the game, while those that try to keep up just find a underwhelming experience, and nothing left to unlock after MR14, this update just become another thing to add to that smokescreen, because I can assure you, this nerfs are but the beginning, and that this trend wont stop, if they haven't stopped amidst the studio being sold because it unperformed for that very specific trend, why would they later? Even if sold, if they don't change that, It'll keep dying. This was one of the best games I played, but seems that their golden age died even before I started playing so.

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37 minutes ago, 9Drade said:

Stop. Saying. This. Nobody is mad about a less powerful roar. We are mad they said they were going to buff weak abilities, and didn't. They added a very strong one to the list, and are surprised everyone wants to use it. I would rather it not be in the list so please gtfo with this dumb strawman argument that people are crying about not doing the max damage. I would rather have support abilities than boring damage boost abilities which I only use in normal play for leveling weapons and boss fights.

Edit: I want energy economy on Mesa. I want a heal on Chroma. I want teleport on a ton of frames that are not Ash. I want movement or enemy grouping on Inaros. I already planned to use ensnare over larva because I don't like the idea of infested abilities on Inaros. RP was more important to me than additional range. But yes, I'm crying about not enough roar damage. Jfc stfu.

Dispensary on Mesa, even with a short duration is all you'll need with an Arcane energize. (And not sure if you're aware, but there are people currently in feedback trying to nerf the energy economy, not DE)

You can use the healing from Well of Life which will stack with other forms of healing like arcane grace and I'm sure there's some other combinations as well.

Health orbs grant armor with certain synergies as well. 

Sometimes enemies spawn in groups and all you have to do is use your reticle to properly place a nidus pull. It's not rocket science.

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2 hours ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

Do you work for DE? Do you work for the media? Do you have decades of experience in the gaming industry? Or are you really just randomly suggesting the game is gonna die because they won't let you have a strong Roar?

Player Count Chart (PC), you can see that a high numbers of players join when a big update hits and then leave less than a month after. You don’t need to work for DE or be a journalist to use Google and see stats.

Also the Roar nerf will lead to more nerfs, what will happen when people use Shooting Gallery instead? They’ll nerf it, and then Breach Surge and so on.

The same can be said for Larva, then Ensnare, Pull, etc.

DE nerfing abilities before release will most likely mean nerfs after the update goes live too. We wanted to replace a trash ability with a good one, but at this rate DE will make every subsumed ability complete trash.

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30 minutes ago, 9Drade said:

Stop. Saying. This. Nobody is mad about a less powerful roar. We are mad they said they were going to buff weak abilities, and didn't. They added a very strong one to the list, and are surprised everyone wants to use it. I would rather it not be in the list so please gtfo with this dumb strawman argument that people are crying about not doing the max damage. I would rather have support abilities than boring damage boost abilities which I only use in normal play for leveling weapons and boss fights.

Edit: I want energy economy on Mesa. I want a heal on Chroma. I want teleport on a ton of frames that are not Ash. I want movement or enemy grouping on Inaros. I already planned to use ensnare over larva because I don't like the idea of infested abilities on Inaros. RP was more important to me than additional range. But yes, I'm crying about not enough roar damage. Jfc stfu.

Besides removing Roar from the list (because I do plan to use it on ONE of my builds, Wukong), I agree. We're mad not because they're nerfing these abilities, it's that they're nerfing these abilities instead of buffing or replacing the weaker abilities. They are not giving us more viable options, they are just weakening some of them that already were.

I think Tactical Potato asked the right question when he asked, "Why is the instinct always to nerf?"

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31 minutes ago, Pizzarugi said:

Right, giving frames like Saryn or Mesa with 200%+ power strength double damage by having Roar totally isn't powercreep... 🙄

Nobody in their right mind is building Saryn or Mesa for 200% STR, and they'd be gimping their frames if they did (Saryn needs range and harms spore propagation with too much STR; Mesa needs to balance duration and efficiency).  But yeah, massive STR is needed for a great Roar. Accordingly, a subsumed Roar on those frames would already be significantly compromised versus what we already do: have a dedicated Roar Rhino buff properly built Saryns and Mesas.

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34 minutes ago, Pizzarugi said:

Right, giving frames like Saryn or Mesa with 200%+ power strength double damage by having Roar totally isn't powercreep... 🙄

It isn't,  this already happens. It will simply take less players to pull it off. Less dead weight carrying around a buff frame when you only want a buff.

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Just now, (PS4)IrOrphanCrippler said:

It isn't,  this already happens. It will simply take less players to pull it off. Less dead weight carrying around a buff frame when you only want a buff.

This buff should require a teammate to use. We're literally talking +50% multiplicative damage at base which you can easily modify to be +100% or higher. This should not be accessible to everyone and their mom.

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1 minute ago, AnhurShu said:

We're mad not because they're nerfing these abilities, it's that they're nerfing these abilities instead of buffing or replacing the weaker abilities

This is the reason people are mad. DE staff said on stream they were going to buff abilities. We got 2 “buffs” and 6 nerfs and more to come after release.

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17 hours ago, Pizzarugi said:

This buff should require a teammate to use. We're literally talking +50% multiplicative damage at base which you can easily modify to be +100% or higher. This should not be accessible to everyone and their mom.

Ok, that's it, shut it all down.

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3 minutes ago, Pizzarugi said:

This buff should require a teammate to use. We're literally talking +50% multiplicative damage at base which you can easily modify to be +100% or higher. This should not be accessible to everyone and their mom.

why should it not?

I agree with you should the system be left as it is at MR 8. But at 15 was reasonable for powers like this

 its almost impossible to defend choices like this.

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8 minutes ago, -Augustus- said:

Nobody in their right mind is building Saryn or Mesa for 200% STR, and they'd be gimping their frames if they did (Saryn needs range and harms spore propagation with too much STR; Mesa needs to balance duration and efficiency).  But yeah, massive STR is needed for a great Roar. Accordingly, a subsumed Roar on those frames would already be significantly compromised versus what we already do: have a dedicated Roar Rhino buff properly built Saryns and Mesas.

Worst of all is people are so focused on the most used frames that they don't even see actually good abilities carrying over can make worse frames become a more viable option.
Ironically to make people use an ability less this is sacrificing having less popular frames come out.
Again, Nerfing is a crutch and DE is getting so much into the habit of abusing it that players are eventually starting not giving a crap about content as it'll inevitably go into the downward spiral everything goes lately.

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1 minute ago, Pizzarugi said:

This buff should require a teammate to use. We're literally talking +50% multiplicative damage at base which you can easily modify to be +100% or higher. This should not be accessible to everyone and their mom.

Why would any Saryn player want to increase their damage? You have scaling damage, increasing it is usually worse, since you want the enemies to spread the spores lol. And if you think Mesa is strong then you’ll freak out knowing that any Slash based melee melts enemies regardless of level.

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vor 4 Minuten schrieb (NSW)Henalie:

I have three thoughts:

The first is that the rationale for the nerfs (let's call them what they are) seems a little off. Off the original list, I wasn't planning on shoving roar into every frame. I wasn't even planning on shoving dispenser, eclipse, or larva onto the frames I wasn't planning to put roar on. I was planning entangle over larva, even, and defy wasn't even on my radar. What the nerfs mean is that the frames I was planning to use those abilities on are going to get less out of the system than the ones that weren't are going to. I'm probably still going to end up sticking with my plans to use roar, but the reduced effectiveness just makes me feel punished for picking the ability that best fits my frame's builds. I'm not even going to mention what my picks were in case someone gets happy with the nerf-stick again.

Second. MR15 was fine. If this is supposed to be for veterans, it should be the very last thing we unlock, right? Like the segment should come from the MR15 test reward, despite it being thematically appropriate for the Entrati. Putting it in a syndicate and at lower MR requirements just makes the branching progression problem worse. I know I'm MR28 and I get to skip having to grind to be ready for it, but if we're supposed to earn the helminth system, shouldn't it take a little work, maybe? At MR8 having an infused ability on your frame is going to be something we'll expect of our teammates instead of being an optional perk. And getting it so early probably means that most people are just going to end up with roar on every frame anyway because you get rhino basically first. At MR15 people are going to be able to experiment a lot more than they will at MR8.

Lastly, I still think the Lotus flower garden for subsumed frames is a cute idea that could look better. I know that's how the flowers grow irl, but they look a bit weird in the infested gunk. I hope we can move them around and arrange them, because otherwise - ick! Everyone's so taken by the ability and MR problems that no one's going after the aesthetics! If it still ends up looking like that I'm going to have to do a bunch of work to fix it with decorations, and I'd rather it just looked good in the first place. Again: ick! It needs some work to look good, instead of just stealing peculiar growth's flowers and pasting them in here.

And done. Byeee~!

Better than I could say it in my several posts.

Its just such a shame DE always pulls out the nerf hammer as soon as people start to be exited. They usualy very obiously overovernerf stuff to be weak as hell before release without telling us thinking were to dumb to notice and might not get pissy (most expierienced players ofc get it, the only diff is that its already happend at that point and yelling at them changes little anyway) but somehow they not only managed to implement the helmenith in a dumb way((giving us S#&$ like freaking roar but only ONE taking move) oi de, rhino had 2 surviabilty moves. Why the heck would you make a sythem like this only to give us the weakest possible option (in most cases) bless (and rip) protea and a certain dargon, but hell. wich, btw would have been fine if they stuck to their claims of buffing the weak ones, but NO we are nerfing the few that were good enough on their own! good job DE. (oh boi I went a a bit offtrack...))but they somehow also manage to incur the PR nightmare of not only nerfing something in the most ineffective way possible,(The reason why you need toi nerf defy is bc we got no other tankynes moves that work on somewhat sqishy frames why would you ever use ensnare if you have larva. so how about instead of nerfing larva give us link.) but also did also direct slight towards their loyal players, like christ id get it if this was the only thing in this patch, but demios is gonna be plenty to advertize to new players! Not even to speak of that this sythem is either stupidly cheap, or a horrible idea to give to mr8 players. Although im not gonna boycot the update, DE's famously good at stepping into it but it still looks amazing. 

Sorry for hijacking you with a quote :P but I wanted more people to see your post so... Byeee~!

 

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1 minute ago, (PS4)IrOrphanCrippler said:

why should it not?

I agree with you should the system be left as it was at MR 8. But at 15

 its almost impossible to defend choices like this.

Because not everyone plays Rhino compared to the vast amount of people running DPS nuke frames. Not having them in your team was a limiting factor that kept them from achieving ridiculous levels of power consistently. Now with Roar able to be subsumed, this consistency is assured.

DE should never have put these abilities up on the subsumed list. We wouldn't be having this conversation otherwise.

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3 minutes ago, (NSW)Siaw said:

Why would any Saryn player want to increase their damage? You have scaling damage, increasing it is usually worse, since you want the enemies to spread the spores lol.

It's not that difficult to shoot the spores to spread them, cast Miasma, and let that spread the spores.

4 minutes ago, (NSW)Siaw said:

And if you think Mesa is strong then you’ll freak out knowing that any Slash based melee melts enemies regardless of level.

Get back to me when melee can reach up to 50m range and can do this:

https://i.imgur.com/jM08p0v.mp4

 

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3 minutes ago, (NSW)Siaw said:

Player Count Chart (PC), you can see that a high numbers of players join when a big update hits and then leave less than a month after. You don’t need to work for DE or be a journalist to use Google and see stats.

Also the Roar nerf will lead to more nerfs, what will happen when people use Shooting Gallery instead? They’ll nerf it, and then Breach Surge and so on.

The same can be said for Larva, then Ensnare, Pull, etc.

DE nerfing abilities before release will most likely mean nerfs after the update goes live too. We wanted to replace a trash ability with a good one, but at this rate DE will make every subsumed ability complete trash.

Once again......everyone's seen the steam chart. Fortunately and unfortunately....that's not how statistics work, by using one flawed and incomplete source for all of your claims....it's not my fault if people rush content and go bandwagon something else. It happens everywhere. It happened on multiple games I've played that everyone said was gonna die and they're still here 10 years later. I've seen hundreds of people like you proved wrong. I guess we'll see if you're magically different than the rest when the game dies in a few months or whatever your Nostradamus-like prediction is.

Also, once again......everyone already knew nerfs were coming after the update......did you seriously not know this...? Are you new to games? 

Your favorite youtubers make builds that everyone follows and they get adjusted. Why do you think there are still people chasing the Vectis Prime meme build? 

DE looks at what people are abusing/using the most and it gets adjusted. They don't even need youtubers to do it for them....the players do it themselves by being casual meta slaves that don't understand game mechanics and go for the path of least resistance.

I used Magus Lockdown to grab lures. Everyone did. Know what I did when they adjusted it? Nothing....because I was logical and already knew it was a bit much. I had fun with it and that's it. I can still solo Tridolons without it. Stuff happens.

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2 minutes ago, Pizzarugi said:

It's not that difficult to shoot the spores to spread them, cast Miasma, and let that spread the spores.

Get back to me when melee can reach up to 50m range and can do this:

https://i.imgur.com/jM08p0v.mp4

 

Spores already overkill with the damage they have, you're literally suggesting making it harder to make something that's already viable be used.
I can go around the world -1 step to take a step back... or you know, i could just take a step back.
Also, I don't get what you're trying to say with mesa, she already kills pretty much everything easily enough without roar, there are way better things to subsume into her.

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3 minutes ago, (NSW)Siaw said:

Be careful guys, this dude is killing lv50 enemies like it’s nothing. Teach me your ways sensei.

Nobody cares about Steel Path if that's what you're implying.

And way to miss the point. Melee can't reach 50 meters and can constantly hit everyone around you by holding one button down.

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It's interesting that being a master you have so little knowledge about which builds each frame uses and that not everyone plays in groups (This buff should require a teammate to use, sure, good luck with that, many players play SOLO 🙂 ) OOF.

And also many players care about Steel Path. Double OOF.

There are always fanboys I suppose.

Imagine giving players a rewarding system, instead of defending NO POWERCREEP BRUH MOAR POWER IS BAD.

 

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