Jump to content

Recommended Posts

A poeme: This is my fav Warframe thread ever.

 

              So much passion, so much drama,              

              MR29s crying, brushing of their tears

              with god roll Rivens for the Kuva Bramma.

              They have bought over the years

              Hundred thousands plats and gifts,

              Now, they wine, and hiss, and fuss,

              But when the update finely hits,

              They will grind it up their a**.

 

EDIT before posting (like nerfing before launching): It is satire, I feel your pain, but I also have a MR3 friend who plays since 2012. Granted he played about 10 hours in 2012 and never returned. Why shouldn't this update be for him? Now get back to the grind and enjoy your subsumed, unnerfed, Decoy. Git gud!

EDIT EDIT (after posting): It might seem that this isn't an opinion on my parts, but it is. I do not consider myself a vet, but I don't like how Warframe vets are ignored and denied content worthy of their work. I find MR8 as a low requirement for this system. Also, the nerfs are not inspired at all. 

 

 

 

 

Edited by KlaussKlauss
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, SordidDreams said:

Techncially yes, but it's so irrelevant that I had completely forgotten it even exists.

Or you can do what I did, grind for something else to trade for plat, then trade that plat for the parts you want. Much faster that way. Trading is part of the game, so I find your argument a little disingenuous. It's like arguing that farming nitain is extremely hard because it's also locked behind the same challenge; that is true, but the argument ignores the fact that there's also another, much easier way.

Again, true, but again, as in the case of the Xiphos, so small as to be basically irrelevant. There's so much lower-hanging fruit that by the time you work your way up to these, the MR they provide is going to be a drop in the ocean and you're really not going to give a damn.

Also, I should point out that the rumors of Hema's cost are greatly exaggerated. Yes, the research is expensive, but it's meant to be a team effort by the entire clan; if everyone contributes, it's not hard at all. I understand the frustration of people who have had to grind a lot for it because everyone had not contributed, but in that case I think they should direct their anger at their lazy clanmates rather than at DE. In addition, the gun is only expensive to research, not to build, so you can always temporarily join a clan that has it for the sole purpose of buying the BP. So again there is an easier way.

Yes. Welcome to free-to-play.

Though on the subject of power creep, I am of the mind that it is necessary and good. Nobody would be excited for updates if all the new gear was guaranteed to be worse than what we already have.

Objective power doesn't matter, only the perception of power, which is reflected in usage statistics. Game devs have figured that out a long time ago. Guns that make a loud bang are used more by players because they feel more powerful, even if they don't do any more actual damage, for example. Chris Wilson of GGG recently made an interesting point in an interview, where he said they've had to gradually creep drop rates in Path of Exile leagues, because players coming from the previous league felt the new one was less rewarding. It wasn't, the devs had the numbers to prove it, it was simply a case of players not having learned to farm the new content efficiently yet, but at the end of the day player feelings matter more than objective numbers.

Grinding for stuff to trade for plat absolutely is a game feature and a cornerstone of the game's business model. Every online game has a shadow economy of people selling farmed items for real money, and every studio that runs such a game tries and fails to stamp that out. DE did the exact opposite, they made it a feature. You can pay real money for farmed items no problem in WF. Except, because you do it via plat, the person getting paid that real money is DE, not the farmer. It's f*cking brilliant.

Again, that is technically true, but again, that effect is so small as to be basically irrelevant. 1K MR for 5 forma and a boatload of your time is just not worth it. Yes, eventually you'll probably go for it if you continue to play the game long enough, but only after getting literally everything else and more for the sake of completionism than because you actually need the MR. Diminishing returns are a proven concept in game design, kuva weapons are simply an example of it.

As for syndicate medallions, yes, you could do that, but why on earth would you?

Yes, that does create the content island borders, but you know what the complaints would be if DE did as you suggest? "Waah, waah, I want to play the new thing, why is the update forcing me into the same old boring resource farms again for the umpteenth time?" Content islands being separate from each other does have its upsides.

I would like to be fair here.  As such, every instance where you say "technically correct" is something that I will ignore.  My intention is that you see where I am coming from, and disagree for a reason that is not logic based.  That is something that cannot be discussed, as the circle cannot objectively be squared.

 

Regarding Nitain, that's a pretty bad take.  Let's consider that the old way was 4 every 24 hours.  You got an alert, completed a mission, and you were done.  In a year I managed to farm in excess of 400 an build all of the primes I wanted.  People complained because there wasn't always 6+ hours to wait, so DE installed it into Nightwave.  I'm getting ahead of myself, but this also addresses you content island end comment.  DE made Nightwave to force people to do older content, and used it to lock Nitain, auras, and cosmetics.  Yes, DE is already forcing us to engage with old content to get resources we need for other content. 

The problem here then becomes two fold.  Do I get the Nitain to build the thing, or buy a reactor/catalyst to make the thing I have better?  Ideally this choice is either a matter of purchasing or grinding, but it's more insidious.  As Nightwave standing is capped, and the value of a reactor/catalyst is 5x that of a bundle of 5 Nitain, you come to a question of being able to earn new content as a player.  You come to a false wall, where the only option is to wait an indeterminate number of weeks for the next opportunity to earn standing or buy now.  This isn't a good look for DE, as it's creating false choice.

Now, what about other ways to earn Nitain?  Well, it's vanishingly rare (0.67% on cache three of a reactor sabatoge, while xiphos is 0.5%) to get in an constantly available mission type.  No go there, as Nitain is required in relatively large counts.  Assuming there's a ghoul purge event you can earn it in stage 4 and 5 of the bounties, and it's even at about 6%.  Ouch.  That's highest value arcane levels of grind.  To be clear, 1407 runs to have a 50% chance of getting 21 drops at 5% drop chances.  6% is better than eidolons, but you're still looking at literal thousands of runs to earn enough to get what you need from a timed event.

Let's now offer a middle finger from veterans to new players.  Newbies get to do this grind, and veterans don't give a crap.  Nitain dropped via alerts for years, so it's possible that people are literally sitting on enough to never need more.  I know that I am, and this was all in service of "player choice" for rewards.  A phrase that actually meant artificial caps on rewards, limiting earnings, but creating the false benefit of choice.  It was implementing a cap that didn't exist with alerts, and giving up their timed nature for a slightly more generous timer and less potential (but more control).

 

Now, regarding monetization.  Let me suggest that I started when the daily lives tokens were a thing.  I had no problem with it as a mechanic, even when falling off of a level was a "death."  Yes, falling off of a level through walls was a death.  I stutter not.  Despite this, I bought prime access to support the developers.  The game was intriguing, bare bones, but fun to play.  Now let's take a quick look at 2019....yep, there's a lot of updates that are entirely tennogen.  Nope, I cannot buy it with platinum.  Yep, the last 5 years have introduced bunches of new "upgrades" designed to lock power behind additional grind walls and conveniently require more forma which requires more grind.  No, that's not inherently bad.  It is inherently bad when you lock bad power though.  What is bad power?  Pexilus.  Umbral Forma.  Aura Forma.  Pexilus is bad because it's limited mods at a surprisingly high price.  Umbral is bad because there's no longer any way to earn them but once every 20+ weeks.  Aura because the cost is literally as high as changing 4 slots on a frame, to get the minor convenience of using any aura (which rarely changes even after the CP nerf).

Do I appreciate the new systems?  No.  Why?  Well, old DE might have run an arcade machine, but it was honest.  New DE is offering less and less but adding more and more grind.  As you stated, diminishing returns for the Kuva weapons are clear.  Likewise with Exilus and Pexilus.  Likewise with Nightwave gating resources.  Likewise with 6+ months required to roll out open worlds after their "release."  All of this makes shelling out real money difficult.

I would like to address the platinum grind, on the tail end of all of this.  DE needs to have grind, so people have to choose whether to spend money or to grind.  That's fair.  What isn't is the constantly worsening grind.  See above, but my favorite point is Braton Vandal.  It's a weapon with an MR lock that is low, but to get it you'll have to grind through literal hundreds of ESO sessions at least 20 minutes long (unless RNG is very kind).  I took 2 months, running it twice daily, before one bp dropped.  Is the weapon worth it?  Nope, it's middling at best and hot garbage at worst, owing largely to its very low MR.  Now you could buy this from somebody for platinum, and maybe even grind that platinum from a more rewarding source.  Why take umbrage then?  Well, when content is skipped because it isn't rewarding it's bad content.  You're applying a bandage to fix a bad choice, and there's no feedback to DE.

Without feedback that things are getting worse, there's no change.  Worst of all, DE is rewarded in platinum sales for producing garbage.  That is, until new players stop buying platinum and the wheels fall off this train.  No new blood means no cash infusion, and it's all centering around bad content stretched with poor RNG.  All of these problems are entirely glossed over because they made money when released, so that can't be the problem.  It's how we got Old Blood and Railjack....and how Scarlet Spear was allowed to flop so hard.  There's no need to alter course, until all of those bad decisions cascade into a dumpster fire.

I want to desire giving DE money for their work.  I do not accept them forcing it out of me, if I value my time in any meaningful way.

 

Let's finally talk power creep and syndicates.  I'll deal with the medallions first.  30k standing a day means I can get 45k total to spend simply from the extra.  That's 6 relics and 5k extra, of which 2 are Axi or Neo and 4 are Meso or Lith.  Add that to the syndicate missions, ranging from 3k to 5k per run.  Add the ability to effectively farm 6 daily missions for 4 syndicates, at 100%, 0%, 100%, and 50% efficiency, and you get a rather large chunk of reputation to allow you to avoid relic farming.  Combine that with the augment mods being available day one, and it's a minimum impact grind for good repayment.  That's why syndicates are valuable.

Regarding power creep, I don't think it's handled well in warframe.  If MR gated weapons better, and content scaled as enemies were more than bullet sponges, then maybe power creep makes sense.  The problem is that MR is busted.  It's busted because they are still adding content, it's effectively not a gating mechanism after MR 16, and new content is being added to the lower levels constantly.  Power Creep would be fine if there were MR 20+ weapons, and MR 20+ content to use them on.  Right now basically any melee shreds enemies up to level 100, despite you being frame locked to 30.  Primaries and secondaries are somewhat locked, but honestly once you can earn the Hek or Vaykor Hek the star chart is yours.  The point here is that warframe needs high level content, that isn't a bullet sponge, to support creep.  It doesn't do that, as demonstrated by the Helminth.  As such, power creep is not appreciated because it'll make all the oldest content worse without offering a compelling reason to use it.  Funnily enough, it exemplifies your comment that old content will offer virtually no returns other than MR points.  If that's it, and you earn 3k points for 30 levels, but require 100k+ just to get a new MR level, then you come to your point of it not being of value.  That's why power creep, in this game, is bad.

 

Could DE offer endgame?  They have tried.  Raids were endgame.  Sorties were endgame.  Arbitrations were endgame.  Long run ESO was endgame.  Thing is, all of these things were endgame until their rewards were plundered.  DE tried to create "evergreen" rewards with echoes of Umbra, and immediately were made to understand why people didn't like their AI.  They then leaned heavier into rivens, because they'll always be viable if there are constant tweaks.  There's a statistical possibility of getting a perfect roll, but to actually see it you'll need millions of Kuva.  In short, because they cannot create an infinitely rewarding item they can only have their new content be as endgame as the poor drop chances.  As such, we are stuck constantly without any endgame, waiting for the next content to grind.  Maybe it's time for a paradigm shift...or maybe push out another open world.  One with a system that could redefine how we play, until neutered into being a bad return on a huge investment.  Oh, I'm talking about the Helminth.  We're back to thread relevance!

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

It would be good to have the syndicates supply the players with additional bounties and rewards without partaking in their normal missions so that the "helminth" can be feed, along with a railjack version, this can influence the fuels and archwing crowd, maybe we can hire the ventkids to partake engineer and upgrade our ship functions, the rigs, and warframe in the orbiters, and another assistant like ordis in the telecoms,offline clickers give players some credits, rightnow emails have attachments and occasional boosters, but i would like to see other items and reward types which automatically escalate like a overflowing clock, or casino, phones have that win style, maybe we can make another mobile app too, not just to feed the beast but to play the minigames and collect, this way operators who dont play or read emails right awaye can still benefit from the helminth and the other rooms, or relays without going into a mission, i treally really helps the players who are all color-blind end-game, fashion frame, because we never leave the orbiters, so we want something else to do besides shooting and weapons testing, alot of playes just stay indoors, there can be types of fuel and items to get at each different relay, and feed for the pets, helmnth, and upgrades for the jacks/archwing that can be "temporary" when they log-in or if they go visit other planets or NPC like how we have a ZAW guy but there is no rental or temporary reason to talk to any shop, citizen or tenno who are just blabbering, if we give them soft reasons like bribbing and credits to exchange numbers, given that works for relays and cities, where some players can hold a button to swap a few like the emote actions, this gives NPC other =functions they get souvenirs to convert, data packages, keys to activate doors and bounties, in the city and outside a quick-spectre to tag-in before the elevator-ride or music change, functions for areas and triggers this can be like megaman games

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, (PS4)SolarPhantom82 said:

It already is,  last year it was down 12% . This year down 20%  railjack is still hurting them.  And the reason the community rages over everything this days isn't cause their more toxic   like some white knights clame,   it's because their just sick of it. ..

Indeed and the WKs will protect them no matter what or call others out thinking they are "cool"

Edited by Circle_of_Psi
Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, Krankbert said:

It was the weekend. You being upset about your toy doesn’t constitute an emergency. Sit down, shut up and wait for the adults to get back to work.

The nerfs were announced on Wednsday, and the response was immediate and relentless, both in this thread and in the form of Youtube videos by many of the well known community members.

DE had all of Thursday and Friday to respond.

To be quite frank, they've been doing this for many years and should have seen this reaction coming. A short "we are discussing this internally and will have a statement soon" should not be too much to ask, to show that they are not ignoring our thoughts on this matter (even if some are frankly being quite toxic in expressing them).

  • Like 10
Link to post
Share on other sites

Kuva fortress and other nodes are really rubish areas to add additional rewards and enemies, siphon, and enclave come to mind lunaro and helmnth or pet boosters when players arrive at each type of planet there can be "Adaptive"-presences" and sensory traits which go automatically like reason to explore or stay longer in those tilesets which have water and trees or sand to skip over some mod functions if our kavats or dogs come to help without equiping them like a spectre is wonderful if you added those functions to areas with wilderbeast like cetus, which works like a rental with those quick-swap money/ the credits and door-chieftains would allow you to carry additional items and spectre for soloing, and bounties, and this makes new achiements and rewards ideal fishing, and minning crew that can die or tag-along robotics who can be repaired and blow up, extractors, and syndicates like the old nightwave. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
vor 7 Minuten schrieb Noel_Woodsoul:

The nerfs were announced on Wednsday, and the response was immediate and relentless, both in this thread and in the form of Youtube videos by many of the well known community members.

DE had all of Thursday and Friday to respond.

To be quite frank, they've been doing this for many years and should have seen this reaction coming. A short "we are discussing this internally and will have a statement soon" should not be too much to ask, to show that they are not ignoring our thoughts on this matter (even if some are frankly being quite toxic in expressing them).

I’ve not seen a single good argument against these nerfs. In fact, I‘ve not seen a single attempt at a good argument against these nerfs. Instead it’s all the same rant against the entire concept of nerfs or the entire concept of balancing over and over and over again, interspersed with the odd claim that the nerfs have somehow simultaneously made the nerfed abilities utterly useless while also changing nothing, and then starting Sunday complaints that there was no response despite all the spam.

Edited by Krankbert
  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, selig_fay said:

A bit of speculation on this topic.

Let's pretend that the DEs have learned their lesson. They presented the system, but this caused positive feedback from the players (apart from the small group of balance keepers and players below mr15) Positive reviews mean high expectations from players. And here railjack is a good example where it looked cool but turned out to be bad in practice.

Going forward, let's pretend the DEs are deliberately upsetting the players. Lots of negative reviews - low system expectation. The more players are upset now, the more players will get a good experience from the positive changes.

Let's imagine that DE has admitted a mistake and now does not want to inform us about all the changes that are coming in the future, so as not to cause resentment of meta couch analysts again. But when these changes hit frustrated players, it will generate a positive resonance.

And yes, hello from the world of pink ponies.

Help me here...No Man's Sky?

 

Right now the Steam reviews of No Man's Sky are generally positive.  This, despite their apocalyptic release.  Hello Games released a turd, then disappeared from social media.  They released patch after patch in silence, and the game is now...good.  I can see less optimistic takes, but divorced from the promises it's not a bad experience.

 

Instead of learning and replicating that, you're suggesting a scorched earth policy.  If everyone assumes garbage, anything better is going to be viewed as good.  I can see the logic, but is DE really capable of doing this?  I ask because, Tennocon was delayed a month, showed off new content, and had another month to wait before any new content was released.  All the while, DE is hyping the Helminth system without really understanding how to sell it to us.  What I mean is announcing surprisingly good powers is great....but then all of these decisions and half communications killed the hype.  It wasn't intentional, just a huge failure to understand how to talk to the community.

 

This smells more like Mighty Number Nine than Fallout 4.  By that, I mean promising the moon and not delivering, rather than simply pushing out an unpolished mess into the world that would not be otherwise tolerated if released by anyone else.

 

 

Interesting take though.  I can definitely see where you're coming from, even if I don't feel it.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, RS219 said:

A worded statement saying that a comprehensive response would be released prior to release would have been significantly better than this vague meme.

It would. It definitely would.

But Steve doesn't usually handle this kind of situation well. He's very passionate and having to face a wall of criticism (most of it probably containing insults) gets to him. Also, knowing DE they might still be in the process of figuring out what the heck they're gonna do and can't even offer a response that wouldn't simply add more to the fire.

Link to post
Share on other sites
vor 3 Minuten schrieb Amazerath:

It would. It definitely would.

But Steve doesn't usually handle this kind of situation well. He's very passionate and having to face a wall of criticism (most of it probably containing insults) gets to him. Also, knowing DE they might still be in the process of figuring out what the heck they're gonna do and can't even offer a response that wouldn't simply add more to the fire.

Let’s be honest here - there is no possible response they could give that anyone here would deem acceptable except maybe for an apology and a retraction of the nerf, and even that is doubtful. They’re not going to do that so a statement would have changed nothing.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Krankbert said:

I’ve not seen a single good argument against these nerfs. In fact, I‘ve not seen a single attempt at a good argument against these nerds. Instead it’s all the same rant against the entire concept of nerds or the entire concept of balancing over and over and over again, and starting Sunday complaints that there was no response despite all the spam.

What is a good argument is entirely subjective.

 

My argument is that nerfing genuinely good abilities means Warframes in desperate need of a power-up won't get it. In my case, I was hoping for Roar on a strength+durability Hydroid to make his abilities hit harder than a wet noodle.

 

The bad abilities are not worth the slot, so the best case scenario I can see for this nerf is that it's small enough that everyone still uses the nerfed abilities - and if we do, the nerfs just makes it less likely that the bad frames become viable for higher level content.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Krankbert said:

Let’s be honest here - there is no possible response they could give that anyone here would deem acceptable except maybe for an apology and a retraction of the nerf, and even that is doubtful. They’re not going to do that so a statement would have changed nothing.

Steve himself has done that many times in the past. He is almost always the one who explains how and why they messed things up and what he wish they had done differently. But that's usually after the "crisis" and I think we are still in the middle/end part. And it doesn't always happen of course.

Personally, I don't need a response. DE's responses can always be found in their actions. But for the sake of the people who can't move on and for DE's own sake, I hope they eventually talk about it.

Link to post
Share on other sites
vor 2 Minuten schrieb Noel_Woodsoul:

What is a good argument is entirely subjective.

 

My argument is that nerfing genuinely good abilities means Warframes in desperate need of a power-up won't get it. In my case, I was hoping for Roar on a strength+durability Hydroid to make his abilities hit harder than a wet noodle.

 

The bad abilities are not worth the slot, so the best case scenario I can see for this nerf is that it's small enough that everyone still uses the nerfed abilities - and if we do, the nerfs just makes it less likely that the bad frames become viable for higher level content.

Have you considered that making bad frames viable was never the point of the Helminth? I get it. You’re disappointed because you found out that the Helminth isn’t what you thought it was. But that’s not a good argument against the nerf.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Krankbert said:

Let’s be honest here - there is no possible response they could give that anyone here would deem acceptable except maybe for an apology and a retraction of the nerf, and even that is doubtful. They’re not going to do that so a statement would have changed nothing.

Interesting, on the the one hand you've decided that there's no reason that nerfs aren't reasonable.  It's not like there's an argument that different power choices would fix the need to nerf.  On the other, you get that Steve is incapable of providing an answer that would actually be useful.  Odd.

 

Let me provide you with what you're missing.  Steve's response should have been:

[this space intentionally blank to represent silence]

 

 

No Man's Sky.  Murray basically bowed out of social media, despite overwhelming passion for the game.  His team worked not on doing stupid things on social media that polarized the community, but on pumping out updates.  

You want a parallel, let's look at Microsoft.  Their response to the online connectivity requirement was "just buy an xbox 360."  Their sales tanked because of it.  The proper response was that they're looking to deliver the consumer never before seen features, and they will justify the requirements with the quality of their offering.  As an aside, the xbox game pass is basically this philosophy.  Let's also look at EA.  Battlefield 5....Ouch.  Don't like it, then don't buy it.

 

The answer here is not a stupid meme.  It's been shown to DE and countless other companies before, but the message has not been taken.  I wonder what it will take?  Will it be another Scarlet Spear before somebody at DE decides that the community team has enough on their plate without having to address this nonsense?

Link to post
Share on other sites
Gerade eben schrieb Amazerath:

Steve himself has done that many times in the past. He is almost always the one who explains how and why they messed things up and what he wish they had done differently. But that's usually after the "crisis" and I think we are still in the middle/end part. And it doesn't always happen of course.

Personally, I don't need a response. DE's responses can always be found in their actions. But for the sake of the people who can't move on and for DE's own sake, I hope they eventually talk about it.

Well, if I was at DE, all the people who demand that I be available on a Sunday because they  can’t move on from an ability in a video game being nerfed before they ever had it could continue lying in the bed they made themselves and continue obsessing over it until the end of time, but that’s why I’m not in a PR position.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Krankbert said:

Have you considered that making bad frames viable was never the point of the Helminth? I get it. You’re disappointed because you found out that the Helminth isn’t what you thought it was. But that’s not a good argument against the nerf.

What IS it for though? Making already strong frames stronger?

Pretty much every frame has at least one bad ability, so this was never gonna be a sidegrade system.

It is therefore either to buff strong frames or weak frames, and frankly I'd prefer the latter.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
vor 3 Minuten schrieb master_of_destiny:

Interesting, on the the one hand you've decided that there's no reason that nerfs aren't reasonable.  It's not like there's an argument that different power choices would fix the need to nerf.  On the other, you get that Steve is incapable of providing an answer that would actually be useful.  Odd.

I think he’s perfectly capable of giving an answer that would be useful. I don’t think that an answer exists that you would accept.

Just look at your first sentence. You can’t even accept what I wrote here and already replaced it with something else in your head.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
vor 6 Minuten schrieb Noel_Woodsoul:

What IS it for though? Making already strong frames stronger?

Pretty much every frame has at least one bad ability, so this was never gonna be a sidegrade system.

It is therefore either to buff strong frames or weak frames, and frankly I'd prefer the latter.

Options. Diversity. Choice. Show me where they said that this is supposed to fix bad frames. You can’t because they didn’t. That this is supposed to fix all issues with Warframe abilities and will serve as a replacement for reworks was just something people on this forum read into it - something brought to you by the same community that also seriously claims that nerfs happen because DE doesn’t want them having fun.

Edited by Krankbert
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
51 minutes ago, master_of_destiny said:

Help me here...No Man's Sky?

 

Right now the Steam reviews of No Man's Sky are generally positive.  This, despite their apocalyptic release.  Hello Games released a turd, then disappeared from social media.  They released patch after patch in silence, and the game is now...good.  I can see less optimistic takes, but divorced from the promises it's not a bad experience.

 

Instead of learning and replicating that, you're suggesting a scorched earth policy.  If everyone assumes garbage, anything better is going to be viewed as good.  I can see the logic, but is DE really capable of doing this?  I ask because, Tennocon was delayed a month, showed off new content, and had another month to wait before any new content was released.  All the while, DE is hyping the Helminth system without really understanding how to sell it to us.  What I mean is announcing surprisingly good powers is great....but then all of these decisions and half communications killed the hype.  It wasn't intentional, just a huge failure to understand how to talk to the community.

 

This smells more like Mighty Number Nine than Fallout 4.  By that, I mean promising the moon and not delivering, rather than simply pushing out an unpolished mess into the world that would not be otherwise tolerated if released by anyone else.

 

 

Interesting take though.  I can definitely see where you're coming from, even if I don't feel it.

Mighty9th is a really good game, but could be polished so hard by a real shooting game or a martial artist to have additional kicks and close combat, throws like how we have parazon, the environments are also left up to the users imagination so reminds me of some of our games tilesets which need features for the walls and doors.

I hate it when good games stop getting updates and DLC, the whole PS3 and PS4 classics are a good example, so many games just go unpatched and occasionally get a extra character, for example FFXIII, Lightning returns, and i can see thats because they are foreign games from japan so its a good excuse, thats what i get for being all hatsunemiku. simular to fable games >.< prince of persia, etc, dude virtual fighter also is gg.but its foreign so its a huge dissapointment, so i can see why u play no man's sky while waiting for this to make sense

  • . I only seen a few videos on the helmnth its facinating but it needs a few more connections to the real game's UI and minimap
  • , hud if the creature were to intercept the PA it would be creepy way to give voice to some players and characters talking and occasionally shooting at enemies from the orb whatever system's come up with a way to make those things real according to the players level, we can intercept the formorian and jailbreak devices which bound us during the start of the game in constant argument of the grineer, while the other factions also have their own beast programs, the computers during missions like cephalon CY and ordis can fight with lotus or take prisoners in bubbles, shield them temporarily, and congeal some sections of the map to give room for kuba siphon, extractors, and tennopods, enemy breaks, spawn points or the new rewards
  • typing in cities could feel like metal gear solid, but the game would need other transsitional and weather elements for the cities most rpg-gams use a trust and faction system already, we need the credits and items for each NPC to matter, i added a quick swap system for renting spectre and temporary boosters,
  • because of the vaccum system seems unrealistically plastic and helmith, damage procs, reload, could be redone for the most part i think reloading would need rework, and also weapons swap
  • , item desynthesis and materialization would trigger wilder creatures and enemy actions, magic and systems
  • thus i think creppier starwars functions would work
  •  would blend well with the weapons and warframes to have those helminth and monsters outside the flotilla in other planets, just the abilities and passives is not going to be enough, think DEVIL MAY CRY when i talk UI.
  • so without UI having a make-over its somewhat boring as the year before, tricking the players loading and ships functions would be nice to make sense of the relays, gray tenno offer help with credits in tiers
  • AKA
  • QUICKSWAP chapter
  • quickswap would allow players to summon helpers, pets, prisoners and other npc to help or associate in cities and missions, orbiters and relaysl, but it can also be used to talk to villagers and computers with parazon, some mods would have passive features like how hacking works in the town to operate doors and access points, this way the players arent just getting smashed with clubs in the frenzy.
  • player functions in cities simular to hacking could be fun for relays and npc outside of nightwave, this can be a good way to activate a robot or rent / pay a tenno, solo, and feed or fish in town is much friendier way to helminth in town, while giving chat some break will make the game very peaceful to craft and upgrade weapons on the fly instead of just using the armory, and zaw specialist, some ponds and rivers nearby.
  • the forest will also need upgrades because its not dangerous enough, it seems somewhat of a place for stealth rightnow until gunfire goes off, but to the exteent there are not enough visual cues or masking so players will just go off to extraction or murdersprees.
  • i think a relay in a forest, desert and water level is essential for new players with PVP
  •  to give fish000000000000  to just feed the creature of every orbiter across the universe if the results are going to be human, there should be some weapons and blueprints thrown in- operator and archwing items, temporary boost, say the login screen gets some make-over, like cartoony idea of textbox and sound effects with monster sounds or robots will add to profiles and the geological neuroptics of chat, so players can feel the different overlays and relays have some exclusive bundles and DLC to customize each element, then the players can buy or install these UI'helpers who collect resources like extractors using the syndicate or whatever NPC system, pet or monster who is a goblin or robot that helps reloads and feature.

 

Edited by SnakeBadger
additonal cosmetics for tenno and warframes, weapons byproduct of NPC interactions and feeding, bounties, and synthesis, also need to allow orbiter "ORDIS" functions to chat and sound effects, premiums, relays and ships on cetus with regular tenno on land
Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Krankbert said:

Options. Diversity. Choice. Show me where they said that this is supposed to fix bad frames. You can’t because they didn’t. That this is supposed to fix all issues with Warframe abilities and will serve as a replacement for reworks was just something people on this forum read into it - something brought to you by the same community that also seriously claims that nerfs happen because DE doesn’t want them having fun.

Nerfing these abilites don't add choice though. We'll still just pick the ability that improves upon what we want from our Warframes. If we need damage, we'll still use Roar or Eclipse.
If they completely changed Gauss ability to be his 1st instead I'd buy that argument, since that would give us the option of improving mobility.

Even if I were to agree that there's no good argument not to nerf these abilities, nerfing abilities takes a bit of work and a lot of people got disappointed when they did.
Therefore I would put it to you that the side requiring a good argument is the side that is pro-nerf, and I have not yet heard one.

Edit: And to be clear, I don't agree. I think there are strong arguments that the game would be healthier if they kept the abilities the way they are, giving us more freedom of choice in which Warframe to use by making weaker ones more viable.

Edited by Noel_Woodsoul
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
vor 2 Minuten schrieb Noel_Woodsoul:

Nerfing these abilites don't add choice though. We'll still just pick the ability that improves upon what we want from our Warframes. If we need damage, we'll still use Roar or Eclipse.

Or Smite or or or or. Following Tennocon there was actually a discussion on the general forum about which elemental damage boosting augment was best. Of course the announcement of the abilities rendered that moot, because Roar is better than all of them.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, Krankbert said:

I’ve not seen a single good argument against these nerfs. In fact, I‘ve not seen a single attempt at a good argument against these nerfs. Instead it’s all the same rant against the entire concept of nerfs or the entire concept of balancing over and over and over again, interspersed with the odd claim that the nerfs have somehow simultaneously made the nerfed abilities utterly useless while also changing nothing, and then starting Sunday complaints that there was no response despite all the spam.

of course not, because you are using your own definition on what is a good argument. for example, people have pointed out that diminishing the buff roar gives wont change the fact roar will still be the top choice due to how it buffs the warframes, as opposed to how much.

for some reason, you think that's not a good argument, even though it explains pretty effectively why said nerf is pointless.

another example:

larva's biggest advantage compared to khora's is its range... in every other way her version is superior, for being always drawing enemies and being recastable without a mod. diminishing larva's range wont just make it worse, will completely make it pointless to pick compared to the other one... in other words, you arent nerfing it, you are just making the other the literal better option in every single way.

another example:

warcry, its attack speed is great, but warcry have very niche uses, one of them being on valkyr who is the best user of that skill, due to her massive armor and exalted weapon, you could put on any other frame, like volt, to make use of the extra speed, but this nerf wont change that, its will affect it by probably 1 attack every 10 or so hits, meaning, it is completely pointless.

next one:

defy, what is defy even good for? the only frame that will probably make use of it is rhino, for a safe buffer in between iron skin casts, specially on roar builds. most other frames will be much better using vex armor instead, the buff doesnt even last that long to make it good without duration to begin with! 25 seconds, and having to wait 3 seconds with the only thing you can do is walk very slowly...


of course, your answer will be "thats not a good reason", because you have already decided that no matter what anyone says, you think the nerfs are good. and you arent open to any change on that stand.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Krankbert said:

Or Smite or or or or. Following Tennocon there was actually a discussion on the general forum about which elemental damage boosting augment was best. Of course the announcement of the abilities rendered that moot, because Roar is better than all of them.

That's still just another damage-buff. If they nerf Roar to the point where that's better, we'll just use that instead. There's no real variation to be found in choosing between Damage-buff A and damage-buff B.

Consider also the amount you'd have to nerf Roar to make Smite better/as good. Smite adds an addative 100% radiation damage IF you exhaust a mod-slot for the augment.
Roar gives you a straight up 50% multiplicative damage-boost to everything you do.

I'll be really disappointed if they nerf Roar that much.

Also, what's up with the Defy nerf? Did anyone actually think that one was top tier?

I will note that I can understand the Larva nerf, given how busted it is on Protea.

Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, Noel_Woodsoul said:

What IS it for though? Making already strong frames stronger?

Pretty much every frame has at least one bad ability, so this was never gonna be a sidegrade system.

It is therefore either to buff strong frames or weak frames, and frankly I'd prefer the latter.

I wonder if the weapons will also see some feature with so many extra relics and blueprints that we get, maybe the foundry and other missions and town-npc will get a upgrade or feature inthe next patch  i hope this helps the NPC who offer missions functions for keys and mods which go ignored or unimproved,

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...