The Helminth: Dev Workshop

[master_of_destiny]

1 hour ago, SordidDreams said:

I feel the same about your take. Or rather, you seem to have completely missed the point. Let me reiterate: Complaining that the Xiphos is rare in caches is like complaining that Nitain is rare in caches. Yes, but in each case there's an easier way to obtain it, so while the statement is true, it's irrelevant.

I don't understand why you went off on a tangent about how NW is a worse way of getting Nitain than the old alerts. I agree, it is, but it's still better than caches. Those four paragraphs, while true, do not refute the point I made.

So you had no problem with monetized revives, even when the 'death' was due to a bug, but you object to monetized cosmetics? And you think aura forma is bad even though you immediately counter by saying that it's basically irrelevant? I can't say I share your priorities or your reasoning.

I really don't see the point. As you said, it's hot garbage and extremely tedious to acquire. Hmm, wherever have we seen that before? It's exactly the same thing as the Sibear and the Hema, my points about those apply to it as well.

Yes. Again, welcome to free-to-play.

You're prophesizing doom and gloom, but WF currently has more active players than it's ever had in its history by a significant margin.

I get that. What I don't get is farming medallions. I tried that. Given the amount of time you spend looking for the damn things and how little standing they're worth, that time is far better spent farming the relics you need directly. The only benefit as far as I can tell is that they don't count for the daily standing limit, so you can stock up on them and use them to buy a ton of relic packs on day 1 when a new prime drops, in order to then sell the parts for plat while they're new and expensive. But in my experience there are better ways of farming plat.

If the high-level enemy is not a bullet sponge and can be killed with old gear, power creep is not necessary.

I don't know why you're talking about endgame, that wasn't the topic of our discussion, but yes, I agree that the lack of evergreen rewards is the problem, and as a result rivens remain the only 'endgame' in WF (and arcanes from eidolons, I suppose, for the three masochists who enjoy farming them). The thing is, "endgame" is such a poorly defined, nebulous term. When I look at other games that have endgame, what I see also boils down to nothing more than a giant grind. So I'm not really sure what people expect from DE and WF in that respect.

 

The primary current source of Nitain is Nightwave, as there are no more alerts.  The refutation is that DE removed the primary source of Nitain, and what they replaced it with was a metered form to earn it.  My refutation is that this new metered form makes it more difficult for new players to earn.  This caps progression and generates an artificial waiting wall, stretching content for new players without actually giving them anything new.  It was sold as a system of choice, which was inaccurate.  The only alternative to this metered wait is a timed random event for a 1 in 20 drop chance for a 10-20 minute mission, or a significantly less than 1% chance on a constantly available one.  All of this is an economy being throttled.

 

Why support monetized revives?  Well, 4 lives per frame.  3 frames at minimum.  12 revives a day.  If I screwed up, at most I lost a couple of missions of progress.  99% of the time I couldn't run long missions because I'd run out of ammo or energy, so my deaths were largely less than 2-3 per day.  Were bugs frustrating, heck yeah.  Did I ever use paid for revive tokens?  6.  I used the ones I paid for with a starter pack.  Beyond that, it wasn't a significant encumbrance.  Could it be abused?  Perhaps.  The thing is, no scaling rewards.  This meant once you hit C rotation you quit and restarted.  That meant 4+ rotations of interception or 21+ waves of defense weren't really a thing.

As an aside, the game was free.  Nothing this good was free at the time, so you dealt with bugs.  You shot the developers your bugs on a feedback thread, and often within a week or two there would be a fix.  If not, there was a reinforcement pack to keep you busy.  Smaller content drops, more of them, and thus easier to forgive.  With annual content in this game it's impossible to be as lenient.  This is why it was easy to accept revive tokens, and why I wouldn't accept them today.

 

Funny you are using the same argument about the Sibear and Hema.  I'm arguing that the platinum purchase isn't a solution.  My favorite is the Sibear and Hema, and there's a purpose.  Did you note that the Braton Vandal is not sold in the store?  You might miss that nuance, so let me put this simpler.  Hema and Sibear are platinum purchases to DE.  You buy, virtual currency evaporates.  Braton Vandal is a forced grind by somebody.  They then get your platinum.  It can then either continue to circulate or be used on a DE purchase.  That's the reason I highlight it.  It's bad grind, it isn't powerful enough to justify, but it misses the cardinal sin of being pay DE to win.  It's interesting, when the Hema and Sibear are both grind, or pay DE.  

 

Warframe as a whole has how many players?  I'm going to call shenanigans unless you can cite some sources.  Warframe on PC, the only platform that shares numbers, has been shedding players since the release of PoE.  DE's financials have been slipping since PoE, and last year was a down year financially.  Yes, the PS4, XB1, and NSW platforms have bolstered numbers.  The catch is that the financials don't indicate that the player bases are making up for the losses.  That's literally the only way I know of to get numbers of players, given that there's no official source to pull them from.

Where's the negativity coming from?  Well, less frequent content.  Player spikes around content, then slumps deeper than the peaks allow for.  A distinct focus on Tennogen.  A list of promised updates that if they didn't give us anything else would likely extend well into 2022.  Fortuna almost two years after release still not having a third orb mother.  Railjack being launched bad, then ignored to pump out another open world.  This is DE trying to eat an elephant by dislocating their jaws.  That speaks to bad leadership and poor planning.

What other companies recently demonstrated a certain loss of magic?  I can't think of any mass of effective programmers which might come to mind.  Yes, I'm beating around the bush for comedy.  That "Bioware Magic" and the "warframe magic" seem to have a lot in common.

 

Medallions are worth between 500 and 5000 standing.  Completing each mission rewards between 0 and 8 of them.  If you get 8 at 500 it's worth 4000 standing, and the mission might only offer 3720 for completion.  My best mission ever offered 3600 standing for completion and 15000 (2*5000, 4*1000, 2*500) in medallions. If we average out the medallions to about 5000 per mission it's 15000 additional standing per day, for two syndicates.  That's 30000 for medallions + 45000 for affinity conversion + about 24000 for 6 missions.  That's a daily reward total of about 99000 standing, or just shy of 5 relic packs.  Add 15 relics to your inventory a day, and you'll see how someone might have hundreds of each lith relic.

It gets better.  Assume that you don't return the medallions, and horde them.  Is there a penalty?  Nope.  At 2000+ of the base medallions I can buy 100k standing 10 times.  10*5*3 = 150 relics just for the syndicate.  Add in the half standing earned on another syndicate, and it's 225 relics in a single sitting.  Now factor in another 150 relics because you can balance 4 factions, and it's 375 relics in a single sitting when a new prime access comes out.  It gets even better because the other two levels of medallion exist, and there's no daily cap.

 Hopefully you get it now.  The short of it is that slapping on Primed Animal Instinct makes the things easy to find, insanely rewarding, and unbound by daily restrictions.

 

Endgame, high level enemies, and rewards are all inextricably tied to why people keep engaging with the game.  The conversation is being had because DE needs systems like the Helminth to instill infinite variation without adding new content.  This infinite variation would basically offer an endgame without having to rely on bullet sponges and new content.  It's a long way of stating that DE's changes to the Helminth are...frustrating because they made bad initial choices.  Instead of acknowledging this, they announced nerfs.  They  decreased the barrier to entry to comically small experience.  All of this is to say that a potential for endgame without being tied to rewards or bullet sponges has been flushed without even giving it a chance to breathe.  That's the reason to discuss all of this, and to be frustrated with the response.

[selig_fay]

9 minutes ago, Keyhound said:

the reason i disagree with you on roar being niche is because there is a reason DE nerfed it. even if you arent picking it, you cant honestly say it wont be "overpicked" by most others. roar is a solid choice for a reason, and yeah, damage is important, some frames really need that damage. even if many doesnt, its still a solid pick for the fact its a general buff to everything, including weak weapons that do gain alot from roar's buff.

It was only nerfed because of the screams of players and streamers. And I can say that most of these people may not even know how frames other than metaframes work. On the other hand, the system didn't even come out, and we already have a lot of potential players who chose roar against level 30 enemies, because? And if anything, I'll choose either smite, because it's more damage and 75% ignoring Alloy Armor, which is cool on a crit weapon with corrosion against armor. I am interested in the effectiveness of bullets, because the rate of fire mods can take some weapons to a new level. And I'm interested in strengthening strength, because strength affects ability characteristics, not just damage. 

I select each tool depending on what I want, depending on what the frame requires, and depending on what weapon I bring. And I don't care about players who don't want to think about it and choose the Roar. This is their right. And I'm not worried about the Roar being a nerf in the ground, because I described much stronger but specialized alternatives above. My concern is that along with the roar, there were nerf abilities that don't deserve it. Yes, warcry is a strong thing, but it's also a niche, because we have three options for pulling enemies together that are much more useful for melee than warcry.

[KlaussKlauss]

15 minutes ago, IGN_Maverick said:

... I'm with all you guys about the nerfs and the MR argument. I'm just not sure about the "DE not addressing the thread on the forum" is relevant. Take in account that even if those 6K replies where made by different players, it's not even close to 5% of the daily playerbase on one platform ( rough estimate ).
 

I think they take in account forum feedback to "an extent" and not as " this is what our playerbase feel ". If the argument " you shoul've wait the launch to decide to nerf stuff " is valid for them, then we also should now wait and try the nerfed stuff AND THEN we can legitimately ask for "official communication" or continue to complain.

The problem is if 100% of the potential players eligible for HoD will play the new content and use the Helmint, that is MORE OF A FEEDBACK than a couple thousand posts on the forum. 

What would you think guys? If I have 5% of my playerbase complaining before the new content launch on the forum, and then I have 100% partecipation after we lauch it, why would I bother changing stuff?

 

Hahahaha.

One month after Railjack launched and 2% of player base clicked the new "inovative" game mode.

Railjack was an overhyped content island and is now as barren as  T H E   C O N C L A V E.    

HoD will launch, vets that cried about it here will play it and finish it in 1-2 weeks and that's it. I am more interested in the atmosphere of the infested open world than the Helminth System because it looks very nice. But that will get old with time. I don't think I will mess up my good builds for the subsumed abilities because it seems very similar to the Riven nerfing shenanigans. I will probably put Roar on some already strenght-heavy builds and War Cry for the lolz on others. Beyond this, hot sh*t like Breach Surge on Saryn, that already destroys everything, seems just extra effort for nothing and will probably get that nerfed as well. 

So yea, 100% of playerbase playing it is impossible. 100% unwarranted nerfes is what is going on. Again, modding for those new abilities needs to be worth it and most probably wont be.  

[RivaAurelius]

1 minute ago, Krankbert said:

Do you need to keep going on showing where I misrepresented you? When did you start?

I‘m not surprised though. Over the years a lot of people have accused me of lying when they ran out of arguments and all of them either don’t respond or respond with a complete post history. For some reason, no one ever points out something specific.

And again, you sidestep my point. I gave you specific examples of where you misrepresent my points or sidestep them completely. I tried to operate with you in good faith but I am done now.

[Fogg]

My only question is if having a Reactor or Forma on the frame you subsume will count toward it being fed to the Helminth. I would be okay with sacrificing the investment along with the frame as long as we get credit for it.

I also agree that it makes more sense to tone down the subsumed version of a power with very wide appeal, like Rhino Roar, to avoid forcing a meta.

[Keyhound]

5 minutes ago, selig_fay said:

It was only nerfed because of the screams of players and streamers. And I can say that most of these people may not even know how frames other than metaframes work. On the other hand, the system didn't even come out, and we already have a lot of potential players who chose roar against level 30 enemies, because? And if anything, I'll choose either smite, because it's more damage and 75% ignoring Alloy Armor, which is cool on a crit weapon with corrosion against armor. I am interested in the effectiveness of bullets, because the rate of fire mods can take some weapons to a new level. And I'm interested in strengthening strength, because strength affects ability characteristics, not just damage. 

I select each tool depending on what I want, depending on what the frame requires, and depending on what weapon I bring. And I don't care about players who don't want to think about it and choose the Roar. This is their right. And I'm not worried about the Roar being a nerf in the ground, because I described much stronger but specialized alternatives above. My concern is that along with the roar, there were nerf abilities that don't deserve it. Yes, warcry is a strong thing, but it's also a niche, because we have three options for pulling enemies together that are much more useful for melee than warcry.

the irony is, they didnt scream because roar needed a nerf, but because most other abilities needed buffs. which is the center of this whole forum post. people think roar is good enough of a choice, nerfing it or not wont change that, they wanted abilities that could, at the very least, serve a function, instead we got alot of abilities that just dont work properly even if you build on top of them, desiccation isnt good, its usable on inaros, but that's more due to how boring inaros kit is.
radial blind is a superior choice,

nobody uses tempest barrage, even though, technically it does everything it does alot of fun stuff... just not well enough to even be considered for use even on hydroid.

i play nyx, and i do use mind control, to me, it works as a "time out" ability i can put certain mobs, so i can deal with the rest(and for the lols, as you can mind control certain bosses like sargas). but i would never put mind control on any other frame, because it doesnt do that well enough. if anything, it is the ability i will cut out of her kit in pretty much every setup.

i understand where you are coming from, belive me, i share it too... thing is, im considering how most players will do it, and you cant just say "i wont, therefor nobody will". its not how this works, and DE already proved that they are whilling to mess with things that have no reason to messed with, instead of actually fixing the problem that created it in the first place.

also, roar is a free buff, i love smite, but that slot is not something you can ignore. ALOT of frames that need that buff wont be able to use it, simply because they have no free slot to equip the mod...

[Keyhound]

Just now, Fogg said:

My only question is if having a Reactor or Forma on the frame you subsume will count toward it being fed to the Helminth. I would be okay with sacrificing the investment along with the frame as long as we get credit for it.

I also agree that it makes more sense to tone down the subsumed version of a power with very wide appeal, like Rhino Roar, to avoid forcing a meta.

until they say other wise, so long its a normal frame and not umbra/a prime, you can subsume it.

as for nerfing roar, it wont do what you want, because people wont NOT pick it because it gives 95% of its old buff instead...

[Jarriaga]

8 minutes ago, Keyhound said:

the irony is, they didnt scream because roar needed a nerf, but because most other abilities needed buffs. which is the center of this whole forum post. people think roar is good enough of a choice, nerfing it or not wont change that, they wanted abilities that could, at the very least, serve a function, instead we got alot of abilities that just dont work properly even if you build on top of them, desiccation isnt good, its usable on inaros, but that's more due to how boring inaros kit is.
radial blind is a superior choice,

nobody uses tempest barrage, even though, technically it does everything it does alot of fun stuff... just not well enough to even be considered for use even on hydroid.

i play nyx, and i do use mind control, to me, it works as a "time out" ability i can put certain mobs, so i can deal with the rest(and for the lols, as you can mind control certain bosses like sargas). but i would never put mind control on any other frame, because it doesnt do that well enough. if anything, it is the ability i will cut out of her kit in pretty much every setup.

i understand where you are coming from, belive me, i share it too... thing is, im considering how most players will do it, and you cant just say "i wont, therefor nobody will". its not how this works, and DE already proved that they are whilling to mess with things that have no reason to messed with, instead of actually fixing the problem that created it in the first place.

also, roar is a free buff, i love smite, but that slot is not something you can ignore. ALOT of frames that need that buff wont be able to use it, simply because they have no free slot to equip the mod...

And ideas to make the other abilities compete against Roar are plentiful. Quoting my own examples:

On 2020-08-20 at 10:54 AM, Jarriaga said:

1) Mind Control: Affected target deals true damage that ignores shields and armor, target now also gets a fire rate boost. Target heals you based on the damage it dealt when it dies or effect is over.

2) Decoy: Increase range and make it invulnerable so it can enjoy its full duration. When duration is over, the decoy "explodes" dealing back all accumulated damage x10 at 2x range in order to compensate that it's stationary (Because it can't even compete against Octavia's Resonator otherwise).

3) Ice Wave: Buff damage to 1000 at base and multiply it by the number of enemies it hits on its path. Range increased; re-casts itself each time it hits an enemy in the straight line until it runs out with no enemies hit or it hits a wall.

4) Fire Blast (Because no Immolation for full effect): Give it Flash Accelerant, surviving enemies are affected with a max-level Blast proc, giving you some breathing room.

5) Reave (Because no Enthrall/Mesmer Skin for full effect): Base drain increased to 20%. Surviving enemies are affected with max-level Impact and Cold Procs. Range and speed increased, free casting if your HP is under 25%.   

6) Tempest Barrage: Make it Corroding Barrage by default, range and duration increased, ally movement and parkour speed increased while active. Augment renamed to "Deathly Barrage", randomly deals Viral, Gas, Radiation, Toxin.

7) Thermal Sunder (Because no Battery for max effect): Heat sunder also causes electric procs with both heat and electric damage themselves increasing the longer the enemy stays inside. Cold sunder also increases critical damage multiplier by 2x against enemies affected by the cold.

 Few people would say that the listed abilities would not be compelling options over Roar if buffed to said extents.

[Krankbert]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb Jarriaga:

And ideas to make the other abilities compete against Roar are plentiful. Quoting my own examples:

 Few people would say that the listed abilities would not be compelling options over Roar if buffed to said extents.

I’m sure if DE had announced that the subsumed abilities would be leagues better than the exact same ability on the original frame, it would have gone over very well on this forum.

[Keyhound]

2 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

And ideas to make the other abilities compete against Roar are plentiful. Quoting my own examples:

 Few people would say that the listed abilities would not be compelling options over Roar if buffed to said extents.

and this is the sad part. most of those wouldnt even be hard to implement... the irony is, we arent asking for them to making them as good as roar, just good enough to be fun to use.

and people still dont get it. thinking we are talking about roar nerf because we are sad about roar being nerfed... meanwhile trinity got a buff to her EV that basically oneshots any enemy in the game, if it has enough viral procs... NOBODY ASKED DE TO BUFF EV, and they went beyond any reasonable amount for no reason...

on a skill everyone belived was already as good as it needed to be...

[RivaAurelius]

14 hours ago, kevoisvevo said:

The point is the principle. It's either all okay to nerf or none of it's okay to nerf. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Forget even trying to balance this system by nerfs. DE better buff the useless abilities more. Otherwise there are dozen more strong abilities that people will move to after the 1st 6 subsumed ability nerf. This is the same principle as nerfing primed mods on primed weapons. It doesn't make sense.

Agree with you totally, have been saying this since the beginning. 

[Keyhound]

1 minute ago, Krankbert said:

I’m sure if DE had announced that the subsumed abilities would be leagues better than the exact same ability on the original frame, it would have gone over very well on this forum.

you do realise they kinda did that, right? saying they would make abilities work better as subsumed. and many took it as being even better than vanilla version, to compete with others on their own frames...

im happy they didnt do that, as it would be counter intuitive. but when you look at the "buffed" abilities, and realize airburst is still complete trash, you can only laugh at how bad they borked it...

[RivaAurelius]

Just now, Keyhound said:

and this is the sad part. most of those wouldnt even be hard to implement... the irony is, we arent asking for them to making them as good as roar, just good enough to be fun to use.

and people still dont get it. thinking we are talking about roar nerf because we are sad about roar being nerfed... meanwhile trinity got a buff to her EV that basically oneshots any enemy in the game, if it has enough viral procs... NOBODY ASKED DE TO BUFF EV, and they went beyond any reasonable amount for no reason...

on a skill everyone belived was already as good as it needed to be...

If they start by nerfing roar, and other abilities become the meta as a result, who's to say the new meta won't get nefed too? How long will it take until every single ability is nerfed into the ground, no longer fun to use, and not worth the warframe you subsumed for it? This is why people were asking for buffs, not nerfs, but certain people will call you entitled if you try to voice your opinions on that 😉

[Krankbert]

vor 1 Minute schrieb RivaAurelius:

If they start by nerfing roar, and other abilities become the meta as a result, who's to say the new meta won't get nefed too? How long will it take until every single ability is nerfed into the ground, no longer fun to use, and not worth the warframe you subsumed for it? This is why people were asking for buffs, not nerfs, but certain people will call you entitled if you try to voice your opinions on that 😉

Nerfs aren't a new concept, neither for Warframe nor for video games in general. If you don't want nerfs in your game, play something that is no longer maintained. I hear Diablo 2 is nice. They haven't had a nerf in ten years.

[RivaAurelius]

2 minutes ago, Keyhound said:

you do realise they kinda did that, right? saying they would make abilities work better as subsumed. and many took it as being even better than vanilla version, to compete with others on their own frames...

im happy they didnt do that, as it would be counter intuitive. but when you look at the "buffed" abilities, and realize airburst is still complete trash, you can only laugh at how bad they borked it...

I remember some content creators (can't remember names specifically) talking about subusming duplicte warframes for their abilities and then putting the buffed version back on the original frame. I thought that was would be SUPER cool, like maybe an infested spin to a warframe ability? But I guess there might be drawbacks in this regard as well. 

[Keyhound]

Just now, RivaAurelius said:

If they start by nerfing roar, and other abilities become the meta as a result, who's to say the new meta won't get nefed too? How long will it take until every single ability is nerfed into the ground, no longer fun to use, and not worth the warframe you subsumed for it? This is why people were asking for buffs, not nerfs, but certain people will call you entitled if you try to voice your opinions on that 😉

pretty much, most people bashing their decision on the nerf already grasped that this is the future of the system. specially when some of those nerfs will just make that ability worse in every way to a competitor which had diferent advantages to make them as versitile. like the case for larva vs ensare... the only advantage larva has is its range... by cutting it, ensnare becames the clear superior choice.

since it has all the other QoL aspects larva doesnt, for being so streamlined.

and that was ok as it was, since people would have to pick, QoL vs pure range. making the system better. but in fact, the nerf will force them to nerf ensnare as well to return to this point...

and this is what people saying they are ok with the nerfs fail to see.

[Krankbert]

Gerade eben schrieb Keyhound:

specially when some of those nerfs will just make that ability worse in every way to a competitor

I feel like I need to point out - again - that you don't know whether the nerf will make the ability worse or not.

[Keyhound]

1 minute ago, Krankbert said:

Nerfs aren't a new concept, neither for Warframe nor for video games in general. If you don't want nerfs in your game, play something that is no longer maintained. I hear Diablo 2 is nice. They haven't had a nerf in ten years.

its a  diferent matter when the system requires the nerf to be balanced. people will gravitate towards the optimum build, no amount of "but i wont" will change that. there's a MASSIVE reason why games from all genres have to deal with the rule of least effort.

[Keyhound]

Just now, Krankbert said:

I feel like I need to point out - again - that you don't know whether the nerf will make the ability worse or not.

in other words, it wont change anything, by still being the better in one aspect... as it is now, OR it will turn it into the worst pick... and you question why the nerf was a bad idea... its either wont affect anything, or it will break things completely.

[selig_fay]

24 minutes ago, Keyhound said:

the irony is, they didnt scream because roar needed a nerf, but because most other abilities needed buffs.

I know that. But at the same time, the streamers were saying that Roar is fjiafohawifha. If the community says it's too strong, what did you expect to get in the end? Yes, streamers paid attention to weak abilities, but they did not emphasize this. Moreover, the first 30 pages are people who say that Roar will break the game.

24 minutes ago, Keyhound said:

also, roar is a free buff, i love smite, but that slot is not something you can ignore. ALOT of frames that need that buff wont be able to use it, simply because they have no free slot to equip the mod...

I'm betting that this is 2 abilities for the price of 1 slot mod. Smite is good without augment. This is a good CC. And its damage is also scalable from the enemy's level, so you can use the virus to deal a lot of damage regardless of the enemy's level. That's cool. Damage boost isn't the only thing here. But I also bet that the augment is stronger and will have a lot of damage in a special weapon build.

But the nicest thing here is smite doesn't interrupt shooting, so you can combine this with weapon damage.

[RivaAurelius]

3 hours ago, Krankbert said:

Nerfs aren't a new concept, neither for Warframe nor for video games in general. If you don't want nerfs in your game, play something that is no longer maintained. I hear Diablo 2 is nice. They haven't had a nerf in ten years.

It's almost as if I'm not fighting against these nerfs on the principle that nerf=bad, I am fighting against these nerfs because they won't make the system better/more fun, they will make the system worse/less fun. It's almost like I want this game to be fun, enjoyable, appealing to players and to do well, without becoming a half-baked, poorly thought out mess, so that the game doesn't die horribly and become an unmaintained game.

It's almost like I love this game and fight to preserve it. It's almost like diablo 2 isn't maintained anymore because nobody plays it. Gee, I wonder if the same thing might happen to warframe if we continue down the path of nerfing anything fun.

[Krankbert]

vor 1 Minute schrieb Keyhound:

its a  diferent matter when the system requires the nerf to be balanced.

No, it's not. Saying "they will nerf all abilities into the ground" isn't "a different matter" depending on the game. It's always nonsense. Of course they won't nerf everything into the ground, because why would they. It's just another instance of the "they nerf things because they don't want us to have fun" conspiracy theory.

[Krankbert]

vor 6 Minuten schrieb RivaAurelius:

It's almost as if I'm not fighting against these nerfs on the principle that nerf=bad 

I get that, I disagree with it, and so does the entire gaming industry. That's why I suggest you play a game that was no longer maintained - because if a multiplayer game gets patches, there will be nerfs.

Games that don't get nerfs are extremely rare, and are generally mocked. For example, Diablo 3 plays right into what you guys here are advocating - no nerfs, only ever buffs. In a not at all unrelated design decision, they also keep adding new difficulty levels and eventually started to display shortened damage numbers with a suffix for millions and billions.

And advocating that there be no changes made to the game so that it won't become a poorly thought-out mess - what? You think games become poorly thought out when the developers make changes after thinking some more about it? Really?

[Keyhound]

1 minute ago, selig_fay said:

I know that. But at the same time, the streamers were saying that Roar is fjiafohawifha. If the community says it's too strong, what did you expect to get in the end? Yes, streamers paid attention to weak abilities, but they did not emphasize this. Moreover, the first 30 pages are people who say that Roar will break the game.

I'm betting that this is 2 abilities for the price of 1 slot mod. Smite is good without augment. This is a good CC. And its damage is also scalable from the enemy's level, so you can use the virus to deal a lot of damage regardless of the enemy's level. That's cool. Damage boost isn't the only thing here. But I also bet that the augment is stronger and will have a lot of damage in a special weapon build.

smite is a good ability, like i said, i like it. however i highly doubt people will put it, if they cant make use of that slot. its CC is good, on oberon, but it cant compete with better cc abilities like radial blind, even the proc of rad isnt as good as a weapon build to spread status... and since abilities can proc growing power, its not even usefull for that. lastly its damage is good, but even at full power, its nothing to write home about.

 

2 minutes ago, Krankbert said:

No, it's not. Saying "they will nerf all abilities into the ground" isn't "a different matter" depending on the game. It's always nonsense. Of course they won't nerf everything into the ground, because why would they. It's just another instance of the "they nerf things because they don't want us to have fun" conspiracy theory.

i never said they would nerf EVERYTHING, but you cant just expect them to not start a racing downhill... if they made something worse, its only fair to expect that they will nerf that one as well. or else, that would mean that they will either: unerf, or, forget and let it in the dump... there arent many choices there.

[selig_fay]

1 minute ago, Krankbert said:

No, it's not. Saying "they will nerf all abilities into the ground" isn't "a different matter" depending on the game. It's always nonsense. Of course they won't nerf everything into the ground, because why would they. It's just another instance of the "they nerf things because they don't want us to have fun" conspiracy theory.

You know, it's a discussion of larva versus Ensnare. Larva is less cost, more radius, and the possibility of better placement, but you need to hit the wall to make it work, because it's a projectile. Ensnare costs more, requires a goal and has a smaller radius, but at the same time does not have a limit on the number of casts and can CC some bosses. I would say that they were equivalent in the beginning, just had their own disadvantages and advantages. Now, I don't know. If we get 10 meters of Larva - it will be fine, but if it is less, there will simply be no reason to choose this thing, because it will simply lose its advantages.