The Helminth: Dev Workshop

[DemoHellsword]

I know i might be kicking an ant nest, but i must ask : What if the nerfs on these abilities are actually justified and not so important ?

I mean, yeah, they are gonna be extremely popular and more powerful than other options, but a little nerf to be able to use them on every single frame is not as bad as i think the community sees it. Moreover, i think putting a little bit of a nerf on those abilities is still a good thing because you can go back to the original Warframe to get the full effect of this ability. The only change that made me confused is for Wukong's Defy, and i still think a 1000 armor or 750 with a panick invincibility button is a good trade.

So when i see self-entitled people telling DE to revert the changes or they'll leave the game, or that the update is ruined because of small nerfs and THINK that they are ENTITLED to getting free stuff and power, i can't help but think that this is just blown out of proportion. We haven't even tested this system yet and they already are saying that it's useless. they can question the changes and tell the developers that these aren't good ideas, but don't join the hate train and threaten them as well !

The only REAL bad point for me is the mastery rank requirement that has been lowered, and i STILL think that only a fragment of players at MR8 will be able to use it because of the Warframe subsuming requirement when you need all the Warframes you can get and collect early on. But hey, that's my point of view.

(BTW, i know some abilities are useless in this system, but come on : You won't get a Loki's 2 or a Frost's 3 with this system. It's customization that makes your Warframes a bit better or suited to your playstyle, but it's NOT about making them Godlike...)

[Krankbert]

vor 1 Minute schrieb Azamagon:

Actually, even if the nerfs implies, say, half effectiveness, they might still be the most popular choices. Some of the options are just that bad - so yes, DE actually kinda have to buff all the useless junk in that list for the choices to be more fair. While not perfect by any means, this could be some guiding steps in the right direction:

 

Okay. So they might still be the most popular choices. I fail to see the problem.

[iSiawPrime]

6 minutes ago, Krankbert said:

Please point out my exact comment which you think can in good faith be interpreted to mean that I think this nerf will make all abilities useful.

On 2020-08-22 at 4:47 PM, Krankbert said:

I'm not going to argue this intellectually dishonest crap. The nerfs are going to make the overwhelmingly appealing abilities less attractive because OF COURSE THEY WILL.

And the solution to one overwhelmingly appealing ability and a few dozen not so appealing abilities is always to nerf the one ability and never to rework everything else in the game. For equally obvious reasons.

You said it yourself and many users already pointed out how flawed your logic is, yet you either nitpick a small portion of the quotes to make yourself look better or ignore it and change the subject.

[Krankbert]

Gerade eben schrieb (NSW)Siaw:

You said it yourself and many users already pointed out how flawed your logic is, yet you either nitpick a small portion of the quotes to make yourself look better or ignore it and change the subject.

No, I didn't. I never said that this nerf will make all abilities useful, and I didn't say it in the comment you quoted either.

[Keyhound]

Just now, Krankbert said:

Okay. So they might still be the most popular choices. I fail to see the problem.

why? they will still be the most popular choices because, and this is what people said time and again, they will be picked the most because of how they do it, not by how much. meaning the nerf will change nothing, besides swap on ability for another in the case of larva and ensnare(if it drops enough range). while also making larva pointless as its inferior to ensnare in every way but range...

meaning, the whole point of the nerf will be invalid.
 

[Krankbert]

Gerade eben schrieb Keyhound:

meaning, the whole point of the nerf will be invalid.
 

Only if the whole point of the nerf was to nerf the abilities into uselessness, which it wasn't.

[Keyhound]

Just now, Krankbert said:

Only if the whole point of the nerf was to nerf the abilities into uselessness, which it wasn't.

dude, THEY SAID it themselves, they will nerf those abilities because people said they will be the most picked ones.

this is not up to debate. if the nerf doesnt do that. that means the nerf IS misguided.

[Krankbert]

vor 1 Minute schrieb MarrikBroom:

And these abilities getting nerfed probably are justified... 

The problem is 'nerfing roar or dispensery or larva isn't going ot want me to pick up specterorage, or spellbind, or terrify much less Decoy.

So the nerf did nothing for what thier stated goal of was 'these are the overwhelming good choice to the point of being opressive.'

You know why you only ever trot out Decoy.

[SnowKeeper]

3 minutes ago, Krankbert said:

The Tennocon presentation was an hour long, this is 30 seconds.

How is it even a point?! You bring up length of a video to prove something, while the case in point was the misinterpretation of the advertisement. 
A great example of having no point but still trying to prove everybody wrong. Please, don't. This is getting ridiculous. 

[Krankbert]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb Keyhound:

dude, THEY SAID it themselves, they will nerf those abilities because people said they will be the most picked ones.

this is not up to debate. if the nerf doesnt do that. that means the nerf IS misguided.

No, they didn't. That is not what they said. Go back to page one of the thread you already have open in your browser and which is literally one single mouseclick away, reread what they actually said, and then we can have a conversation about it, but we're definitely not going to discuss this strawman argument of yours.

  

vor 2 Minuten schrieb SnowKeeper:

How is it even a point?! You bring up length of a video to prove something, while the case in point was the misinterpretation of the advertisement. 
A great example of having no point but still trying to prove everybody wrong. Please, don't. This is getting ridiculous. 

I bring up the length of the video to point out how the initial announcement had much more info than the vague single sentence in the video you posted.

[papry]

il y a 8 minutes, Krankbert a dit :

Okay. So they might still be the most popular choices. I fail to see the problem.

Wasn't the point of the nerf to make them less popular ?

Isn't that admitting that the nerf is pointless ?

[skyrimplaier]

3 minutes ago, Krankbert said:

Only if the whole point of the nerf was to nerf the abilities into uselessness, which it wasn't.

no their stated reason for the nerf was to make said abilities less of an overwhelming choice which if the nerf goes through and the abilities are still the overwhelming choice like you stated then the literal entire reason for this nerf would be thrown out the window

[Krankbert]

Gerade eben schrieb papry:

Wasn't the point of the nerf to make them less popular ?

Isn't that admitting that the nerf is pointless ?

They can be less popular and still be the most popular. Black-and-white-thinking again.

[Krankbert]

Gerade eben schrieb skyrimplaier:

no their stated reason for the nerf was to make said abilities less of an overwhelming choice which if the nerf goes through and the abilities are still the overwhelming choice like you stated then the literal entire reason for this nerf would be thrown out the window

Please point out where I stated that these abilities are still the overwhelming choice.

[skyrimplaier]

11 minutes ago, Krankbert said:

Okay. So they might still be the most popular choices. I fail to see the problem.

right here its its the most popular that still means overwhelming

[Keyhound]

y do these Infused Warframe Abilities have these rules?
It was apparent in player feedback and play testing that these Infused Warframe Abilities had the potential to be the overwhelming choice; which is not ideal. Instead of changing the Ability outright due to those concerns, we decided to give them slight rules when Infused.

No, they didn't. That is not what they said. Go back to page one of the thread you already have open in your browser and which is literally one single mouseclick away, reread what they actually said, and then we can have a conversation about it, but we're definitely not going to discuss this strawman argument of yours.

OVERWHELMING CHOICE. their words. tell me how is this them not saying exactly that?

[Krankbert]

vor 1 Minute schrieb skyrimplaier:

right here its its the most popular that still means overwhelming

No, it doesn't. It's basically impossible to set up the abilities in such a way that all are exactly equally popular, which is the only scenario in which some wouldn't be most popular.

  

vor 1 Minute schrieb Keyhound:

y do these Infused Warframe Abilities have these rules?
It was apparent in player feedback and play testing that these Infused Warframe Abilities had the potential to be the overwhelming choice; which is not ideal. Instead of changing the Ability outright due to those concerns, we decided to give them slight rules when Infused.

No, they didn't. That is not what they said. Go back to page one of the thread you already have open in your browser and which is literally one single mouseclick away, reread what they actually said, and then we can have a conversation about it, but we're definitely not going to discuss this strawman argument of yours.

OVERWHELMING CHOICE. their words. tell me how is this them not saying exactly that?

Okay. It's them not saying exactly that because of how they're using different words that have a different meaning.

[papry]

il y a 5 minutes, Krankbert a dit :

They can be less popular and still be the most popular. Black-and-white-thinking again.

Okay by what margin ?

Do you have a number to give ?

Because to my knowledge DE didn't give the value of the nerfed abilities & we didn't get any solid sample from the community bcause they nerfed them before release.

So how do you know that the nerf actually reached said goal ?

[Krankbert]

Gerade eben schrieb papry:

Okay by what margin ?

Do you have a number to give ?

Because to my knowledge DE didn't give the value of the nerfed abilities & we didn't get any solid sample from the community bcause they nerfed them before release.

So how do you know that the nerf actually reach said goal ?

I don't. Neither do you.

[papry]

il y a 1 minute, Krankbert a dit :

I don't. Neither do you.

So why defending the nerf then instead trying to have solid statistic ?

 

[skyrimplaier]

Just now, Krankbert said:

No, it doesn't. It's basically impossible to set up the abilities in such a way that all are exactly equally popular, which is the only scenario in which some wouldn't be most popular.

then the point of making our actually good abilities worse instead of adding mechanics to the objectively horrible abilities to add usage those abilities instead is basically oh that's to much effort instead of their literal stated reason, when even a nerfed ability is still the most objectively good ability of their category of power they will still be absolutely overwhelming

[Krankbert]

vor 1 Minute schrieb papry:

So why defending the nerf then instead to try to have solid statistic ?

 

Because a blind man with a walking stick can see how strong Roar is.

  

Gerade eben schrieb skyrimplaier:

then the point of making our actually good abilities worse instead of adding mechanics to the objectively horrible abilities to add usage those abilities instead is basically oh that's to much effort instead of their literal stated reason, when even a nerfed ability is still the most objectively good ability of their category of power they will still be absolutely overwhelming

There's all kinds of degrees between overwhelmingly strong and objectively horrible. Black-and-white-thinking again.

[Jarriaga]

Things will never change without economic repercussions.

[Keyhound]

1 minute ago, Krankbert said:

No, it doesn't. It's basically impossible to set up the abilities in such a way that all are exactly equally popular, which is the only scenario in which some wouldn't be most popular.

  

Okay. It's them not saying exactly that because of how they're using different words that have a different meaning.

you do realise that something that is the "overwhelming choice" is just another way of saying most popular.

cambridge dictionary example for overwhelming:

"An overwhelming majority voted in favor of the proposal."

if the nerf doesnt affect said popularity, and roar still remain the overwhelming choice, it means the nerf was pointless.

[papry]

il y a 1 minute, Krankbert a dit :

Because a blind man with a walking stick can see how strong Roar is.

An one-eyed person can see how most of the other abilities are usuless.

and a deaf person can remenber pablo saying that the bad abilities would be buffed.