The Helminth: Dev Workshop

[Gurpgork]

3 minutes ago, (NSW)StoneGhost said:

Everyone should just play the way you think they should or else you shouldn't have to put up with them. Can't have them taking away your fun now, can we?

Frames like Saryn have a way of inflicting their playstyle on the entire party, because they can pretty easily turn the whole mission into a walking simulator for the whole party. 

I don't have a problem with someone playing their way. I do have a problem with it if their playstyle comes at the expense of mine. 

[Unibot]

3 часа назад, --Q--Candy сказал:

This is incorrect. You have stuff like Volt - Shock there. With the Augment this is a crazy Ability to increase dmg. Can we get a limitation there too?

Shuriken + Seekign Shuriken = Remove Armor from all enemies... Now even grineer are a joke like all other factions.
Rest & Rage = Now you can bee your own Sleep Equinox to power level / fokus farm.
Nourish = Extremly strong toxin buff. The quote from above applies here.
Smite + Smite Infusion = Same thing as the Quote applies here and it even has scaling dmg...
Dispensary = Endless Energy for all Warframes.... This doesnt seem broken at all...

This system needs Heavy Nerfs and active maintenance.This has the potential to kill the balance in this game forever. If it will be relased like this and wont get balanced very often you can say goodbye to all sorts of Balance in this game.
I hope that you will do something about this, else we can say goodbye to ever have any challenge in this game.

 

(Shutout to the comment from --Q--FSK41 a few posts down. This System will kill everything)

Can you go to other game with your "challenge" bs ? There was none since open beta and there is none now. Don't ruin others fun with your nerfs. Go do your challenge in challanging games. I'm fed up with people pushing their style of gameplay on others. Go do 200 push-ups now.

[Tesseract7777]

17 minutes ago, Voltage said:

I would just appreciate some consistency. It's fine to nerf things for balance, but allowing players to give Shock Trooper to their Chroma after nerfing Chroma directly and indirectly over the years due to his damage output on weapons is just dumb. Plain and simple.

Some people seem confused about where you are coming from, but I think I get it. You are tired of seeing the nerfs coming when or before an update hits, knowing they will eventually, seeing it in advance. But your warnings that "you should just nerf this now, before you release it, because we know you will", seem to go unheeded, and then they end up nerfing it down the road after all the time and effort spent.

I think a player test server where they had people sign NDA's and help them try out new content ideas from a player perspective could help avoid these issues. No matter how good they become at seeing it from a developer perspective, there are ways they will be unable to see the issues from their position, being part of the development team -- the customer perspective is something they will never fully get on a personal level. IMO, this is something where they should have been taking more customer input on which abilities should be offered, before releasing an official list. I know this is a Workshop so presumably they can get some ideas from us and make changes beforehand, but I think the workshop shouldn't have started with a full list. We should have been asked what we would do and why, and had a more robust discussion to bring back to the developers on potential balance issues that were spotted before they made their list. 

[Pizzarugi]

Just now, (PS4)Tomplexthis said:

people who hate playing with other players still forget that theres that option. alot of the comments seem mad about the 4 to win meme, or overpowered bleh, but warframes a game about power fantasy which is something missing at times due to some other mechanics, it can be a tough game or easy gane based on someones skill or knowledge level. theres just alot of irrationality in these comments and forums all the time about it. 

Ever played solo on survival or excavation? Enemy spawns are hot garbage to the point that they don't spawn fast enough to sustain life support or drop enough power cells for excavators.

[(PSN)Odd2BeVicinity]

3 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

The Lotus flowers are a really nice touch, props to whoever thought of that. This is looking to be a ton of fun to play around with and honestly is just a completely positive addition in my opinion. Sure it will probably mess up some balancing but in the end it's not like we play Warframe for the challenge or for a super realistic playstyle. This is a power fantasy so I'm grabbing my eclipse Mesa and heading into steal path for a good time while some of you just whine about "bUt mY bAlanCing, tHeRe's nO moRe ChAlleNge tHE gaMe iS rUiNed" 

The ability selection is actually a lot better than I had even hoped anyway, it's not busted but it's definitely a way to get even stronger than before so this really is looking to turn out very well. My only real concern is that this means a lot of builds are probably going to require an extra forma or two for making new abilities fit in well but it's not like throwing around forma is anything new.

[sird]

i really dont get the hate though...so what if some frames will become obsolete due to their skills being used on other frames? lmao..you guys are acting like these frames will get hurt no one is using them..and also if you are fed up with those 4towin users why go public in the first place. just go solo or team up with your friends..theres no point in going public  unless you just want to show off that you can kill more than others then cry that someone is using a 4 to win frame...public in my opinion is for those who want to end a certain mission as fast as possible or if I could not do it solo, Im actually happy if someone brings a 4 to win frame so that I could just relax for a bit

[RakShar_ThePaladinGod]

this workshop sounds promising so far. also given the scale of the helminth system, it would be wise for you to release a test cluster for this system only so people can experiment and give feedback on all the possible shenanigans (meaning deimos as a planet along with all its other content would be unavailable for the test cluster). and if things hilariously backfire on launch in the live servers we can always put part of the blame on the players involved with the test cluster

[Pizzarugi]

Just now, Gurpgork said:

Frames like Saryn have a way of inflicting their playstyle on the entire party, because they can pretty easily turn the whole mission into a walking simulator for the whole party. 

I don't have a problem with someone playing their way. I do have a problem with it if their playstyle comes at the expense of mine. 

Exactly this.

[(NSW)StoneGhost]

1 minute ago, Milinko said:

Why do people keep saying challenge will be gone from the game it's still there just choose to not play the meta option. There are cheat codes in many games that are easily accessible but you don't say the games aren't challenging because they are there because you are the one who chose to use them. The option is there to have challenge; the issue seems to be people want to force "challenge" on others rather than have a way everyone can enjoy the game in their own way. For example, Octavia alone trivializes the entirety of the game yet why aren't you complaining she needs the nerf to increase challenge or any other strong frame. Digital Extremes is presenting us with a unique option to spice up the meta and give more people more options to play as we choose. Less confinement to 'pick this or suffer' and more suffer at your own pace. Personally I love Mag but sometimes I get insecure about myself and play Khora to see all the big pretty numbers. Why should I be forced to playing any one way in a game that has tried very hard to emphasize choice?

TL;DR : If you want the challenge don't choose the meta; if you want the meta don't complain about the lack of challenge.

Well said! It's like they're impulsively using features and railing against DE because they are undisciplined. 

This community constantly complains about everything, I swear. 

[(PSN)Tomplexthis]

1 minute ago, Pizzarugi said:

Then you're astronomically lucky, because I run into them, Mesa, Volt, Equinox, Ember, and Khora all of the time in any mission.

Nothing says "fun" like doing a mission running from start to extraction, because one of my teammates keeps mashing the nuke button. 😛

play solo and stop complaining about other players opting into their own playstyles. it seems really dumb to be mad at other players for playing effectively.

[(PSN)BlueRiptide4]

Understand we can't subsume primes but is it actually confirmed anywhere we are able to place abilities on them. Just wishing to confirm

[(PSN)The-AngryMan]

For the most part this seems good or balanced with the exception of a couple issues.

1. The choice of Eclipse doesn't seem like a good move. Swapping Eclipse with other damage buff abilities like Roar is a false equivalency that doesn't even come close to balancing this.

- Damage buff abilities are not just flat amount buffs like Roar or Eclipse. Damage buffing comes in different ways like armor reduction (Seeking Shuriken), scaling damage (Smite), or Mesa's Peace Maker and other exalted weapons that are effectively damage buffs because it offers incredibly high dps over standard weapons, and Peace Maker is an aim bot.

- Eclipse is not just a damage buff ability. It's the most powerful damage buff ability in the game. Any Rhino would gladly ditch Roar for Eclipse. Ivara can sit inside an invisible bubble in a light area with Eclipse damage buff, or a Mesa aim botting everything with 500% extra damage.

- Eclipse can provide 95% damage reduction also.

Eclipse is Mirage's most powerful ability. It's the frame's greatest contribution to a team. Giving away Eclipse severely reduces Mirage's appeal or usefulness.

If you keep Eclipse in the Helminth system you can pretty much call this update the "Everyone gets Eclipse update (besides a few poorly selected victims because logic)"

Proposed solution: Give her 2 instead or heavily nerf Eclipse (thus nerfing Mirage in the process and unnecessarily reducing the farme's appeal). I would go with the former.

2. Second issue is Ivara's invisibility quiver. A Mesa or Titania sitting inside an invisibility bubble seems to encourage inactive play styles and discourage teamwork play. This may also cause some balance issues.

Other than these two, I think this is going to bring a lot of creative ideas. I always wanted to use Hildryn and Protea with an electric Elemental Ward. I can finally test this.

[(NSW)Solas0153]

Furthermore I have out damaged nuke frames before without one. If it means that much play with your builds. Build a better one if you want. It’s a game built around a community, don’t take away the fun of others because you don’t like it. That being said I think whoever had the comment about being able to restrict the que from certain frames wouldn’t be to bad of an idea. 

[Oreades]

4 minutes ago, ixidron92 said:

Wondering if I can give my protea a second dispensary.

.... well I do kinda hate her 4 so this intrigues me. 

[AlphaBankai]

I don't care if it seems broken

This S#&$ looks hyper fun

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

4 minutes ago, Pizzarugi said:

You missed this:

Unless it's hunting eidolon, opening relics, farming kuva, farming relics, or rarely unlocking Grendel's parts, recruit isn't a be-all end-all fix.

With the news of this update, there will definitely be more groups looking to level in a number of ways.

[Pizzarugi]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Tomplexthis said:

play solo and stop complaining about other players opting into their own playstyles. it seems really dumb to be mad at other players for playing effectively.

You missed the following:

1 minute ago, Pizzarugi said:

Ever played solo on survival or excavation? Enemy spawns are hot garbage to the point that they don't spawn fast enough to sustain life support or drop enough power cells for excavators.

If enemy spawns weren't so awful that the experience is just as bad as having a Saryn player nuke the game, I would be playing solo.

[RakShar_ThePaladinGod]

1 minute ago, (PS4)BlueRiptide4 said:

Understand we can't subsume primes but is it actually confirmed anywhere we are able to place abilities on them. Just wishing to confirm

you cant feed umbra or a prime frame to the helminth to gain an ability. you can however put an ability you got from another non prime frame on a prime frame

[(PSN)Renan_RXZ]

 

3 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

What about Damage buffing Abilities?

As you can see, we have two Abilities that increase damage: Mirage’s Eclipse, and Rhino’s Roar. We are creating a special case for these Abilities when infused on Warframes with similar Abilities (i.e Chroma, Mirage, Rhino, Octavia). When you infuse these, you will receive a prompt that you can only have 1 Damage Buffing ability at a time, and thus you are limited to replacing said ability type. Which is to say - Damage Buffing abilities can only be swapped with Damage Buffing Abilities on Warframes that already have them. However, that limitation does not apply to the other 30+ Warframes. 

What about damage mitigation abilities? Mirage’s Eclipse and Nova's Null Star. Do those get the same treatment?

 

[Serafim_94]

Now that we have an ability list, I can't help but feel that the whole system is one giant mistake. Mistake that's going to be incredibly fun for us, at least initially. But will completely ruin what balance and challenge the game had.

In other words, nothing will change whatsoever. But Rhino roar should NOT be in that list. Probably a few others too, but it's the most obvious "must have" one. Like, do we really need self-buffing Saryns and Mesas?

[ixidron92]

hace 1 minuto, Oreades dijo:

.... well I do kinda hate her 4 so this intrigues me. 

Everyone hates her 4. If I can get 2 dispenser, then so be it, if not, Ivara's quiver because I heard you like utility, so Imma put utility in your utility so you can kill and help while invisible. 

[Rin-senpai]

Warframe today
https://tenor.com/view/starship-troopers-traitorof-mars-sttomfilm-starship-troopers-bugs-attack-gif-8969856

[Gurpgork]

1 minute ago, (PS4)The-AngryMan said:

Ivara can sit inside an invisible bubble in a light area with Eclipse damage buff, or a Mesa aim botting everything with 500% extra damage.

I see your point, but Mesa already does so much damage that I don't really see it becoming a massive problem. I don't think it will do much more than increase the amount of overkill Mesa is doing. 

[(PSN)Odd2BeVicinity]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)BlueRiptide4 said:

Understand we can't subsume primes but is it actually confirmed anywhere we are able to place abilities on them. Just wishing to confirm

Yes you can put abilities on Prime frames, it was confirmed during some streams.

[Pizzarugi]

Just now, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

With the news of this update, there will definitely be more groups looking to level in a number of ways.

Everyone's gonna be in Hydron, let's be honest. 😛