The Helminth: Dev Workshop

[Robolaser]

The extreme lack of civility in this thread is alarming, and quite depressing tbh. Warframe forums 2020 in  a nutshell...

[SSI_Seraph]

You didn't even bother to take a moment a concider how many broken combos this will generate. (After the Xoris nerf, I'm not even sure this is even obvious for you guys because you could see that being used with those frames from a mile away).
I'm fine with if you are ok with basicly giving up on ever having any meaninful balance but please don't come back two months down the line and wonder why everyone is blazing through everything (even more then they are already doing...)

I hope this won't be an excuse to just never rework frames (because this won't save those) and nerf abilities on the base frames while using this as a justification.
You didn't even bother to implement some kind of "oh s* button" like dispos.

[.durandle.]

6 hours ago, --Q--Candy said:

This is incorrect. You have stuff like Volt - Shock there. With the Augment this is a crazy Ability to increase dmg. Can we get a limitation there too?

Shuriken + Seekign Shuriken = Remove Armor from all enemies... Now even grineer are a joke like all other factions.
Rest & Rage = Now you can bee your own Sleep Equinox to power level / fokus farm.
Nourish = Extremly strong toxin buff. The quote from above applies here.
Smite + Smite Infusion = Same thing as the Quote applies here and it even has scaling dmg...
Dispensary = Endless Energy for all Warframes.... This doesnt seem broken at all...

This system needs Heavy Nerfs and active maintenance.This has the potential to kill the balance in this game forever. If it will be relased like this and wont get balanced very often you can say goodbye to all sorts of Balance in this game.
I hope that you will do something about this, else we can say goodbye to ever have any challenge in this game.

 

(Shutout to the comment from --Q--FSK41 a few posts down. This System will kill everything)

nothing this system can bring will break the game any further than it already is

[-CdG-Zilchy]

MR 15 and people are complaining? This should've been the incentive to reach MR 30 with how broken it will make the game.

[Antris]

A suggestion, for Equinox Rest and Rage, how about making it tap and hold instead of tying to energy color?

I might rather not have a sort of graveyard on the game...

 

[LillyRaccune]

6 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

We debuted this system at TennoCon 2020

@[DE]Rebecca Just wanted to give the Warframe team, Devs, artists, and customer support staff a big shout out and lots of love for your successful TennoCon event! ❤️ It was beautiful and I really enjoyed myself. All of you faced new challenges because of this Covid pandemic. In my books you're all MR31!

Quote

Tenno the time has come for our comprehensive Dev Workshop on The Helminth System

If I recall correctly, the point of Dev Workshops is to have a dialogue. I get that lots of people are angry, but this isn't the same Warframe people started playing 5 years ago. You aren't communicating useful information to the Devs or to the community. I may or may not like something new, but Team Warframe has said "We all lift together!" To all those angry people: eat some food, have a nap, take some pain relief for your headache and try to come back with an outsider's perspective.

Quote

Ability X is overpowered... All enemies are paper (trivial)... MR15 is too tough...

Let's look at the last complaint: MR15. I'm confident that @[DE]Pablo is already aware of poor player "balance". Here is what I usually see: MR6-MR9 players who mainly use Wukong Prime or Rhino Prime with either Acceltra or Bramma. They get lost in maps because they have not explored them. They activate survival life support because they don't understand that they provide 30% per activation, they get excavation digs to approximately 90% and run off to start a new one but it gets destroyed before it finishes. What's my point? Too many new players know too little about the game, they need more physical playing experience. MR15 requirement isn't to slow down the new players, it's to protect us veterans.

 

I hope my post is meaningful to the Dev Workshop community. BTW @[DE]Pablo I'm loving the new UI on PC ❤️ Good work!

-(PC)LillyRaccune

[Stormblossom]

I honestly don't understand why people are shrieking about balance here. It gives more flexibility to frames that don't have great synergy in their own kit without a ton of individual reworks. Some frames (Wukong, Octavia, Gara first that pop to mind for me) if built properly can do almost anything insanely well.

Using current frames awesome group synergies can be built for those who prefer powerful team builds as well.

Using Helminth powerful solo builds will be more doable for many frames that aren't as good at it currently. (Some frames like Zephyr will always be worthless in my mind, but some people like her so, meh?) Some people will always play to the meta and run only the most OP configuration possible. Other people have favorite frames and will play them almost exclusively. (despite having moved on from using him for everything when Octavia released and bouncing around to a few other frames since then, Frost Prime STILL has 43% of my missions.) That said, maybe that frame has a blaring weak spot in their kit. (looking at you Frost #2) and you would love to replace it with something more fun. Frost with Rest and Rage seems like it would be a lot of fun. I already run avalanche as offense quite often, and the ability to bank up a huge rage and then avalanche to drop defense by 50% and then utterly rip a whole wave of enemies apart sounds really cool! ... 

On the other hand, the frame I have played the second most is Octavia, and sadly, she has no good point of participation in this system. Her whole kit is so synergistic with itself that removing any of the abilities immediately throws her effectiveness out of whack. Then again I will freely admit her kit is insanely powerful, so it isn't like she NEEDS to be able to grab some OP ability from another frame to do everything well.

A lot of people are talking about things like armor strip using Ash's shurikens + syndicate mod ... Which for sure is something you can do, but it also comes with the downside that you are now adding a syndicate mod from another frame into your build. Where is it going to go? What are you losing for it? Odds are this will be fairly self-balancing. 

This system is going to shake the meta pretty hard I suspect, as frames that are absolute obvious best-in-class for virtually everything like Wukong will suddenly have challengers, but that isn't a bad thing for the game. It gives creativity an avenue at the player end and when push comes to shove, there is no brass ring we are racing for here, it is a PvE game. I strongly suspect we will see this disabled or strongly controlled in conclave so the 10 people who actually care about WF PvP won't be negatively impacted by it, but in the overall it just looks thoroughly like a positive to me. 

 

[Vyra]

So we help Valkyr to escape fro Alads sick hands, just to feed her to the infested...to gain her (War)>>>Cry<<<

 

This feels wrong.

[ebrl]

rofl time to put roar on nearly every frame

typical clueless DE, having the chance to open up the meta and instead just narrowing it down even more because they have no idea what they're doing

[ArturiaFayth]

I am curious how this will work out for my builds.

Might make for some interesting load-outs depending on the combination and how that combination affects the entire kit.

And it might even make sense from a lore perspective now that i think about it, our void powers are channeled through the frames in different ways so with some help we should be able to alter the flow of energy to alter the ability itself.

[Blyker]

As a Valkyr main i am disappointed that my most important skill will be available to all other frames.

[(XBOX)MetalxPhoenix]

11 minutes ago, ShogunGunshow said:

DE's philosophy of what's signature and what's not is pretty inconsistent in the list. Like, when I think of Nyx, I don't think of Psychic Bolts, I think of her theme - messing with peoples' heads. Mind Control and Chaos are signature abilities of Nyx, to me. Nope, apparently not!

Oh, okay, so it can be part of the frame theme, but not too strong? Nope! Eclipse. 

Okay but not something that's visually striking and impactful that's happening during the game right- NO, LARVA.

There are no consistency or rules with these ability choices. The whole 'no signature abilities' thing was a load.

Which is unfortunate, but expected. If it would've stayed consistent, it would have been Charge and Ripline respectively. I'm really hoping they change them before release.

[Sahiratu]

I LOVE IT, even tho I would change mirage's ability for the first one. I mean, I don't think eclipse is a great thing to have,

Btw, about people saying this will destroy the game... I dunno, I already can kill pretty much everything without even trying sooo...

[selig_fay]

1 minute ago, ebrl said:

rofl time to put roar on nearly every frame

typical clueless DE, having the chance to open up the meta and instead just narrowing it down even more because they have no idea what they're doing

I don't see any reason to put Roar everywhere. I don't even see a reason to put Roar anywhere other than Eidolon hunting. 

[De-Synch]

I'm just really honestly curious about Gauss's thermal sunder...Without redline...How would it work?  Will it still strip armor without needing redline?

[Sahiratu]

Oh, btw, I think I can try to do my own hydroid's rework LOL

[-CdG-Zilchy]

8 minutes ago, Stormblossom said:

I honestly don't understand why people are shrieking about balance here. It gives more flexibility to frames that don't have great synergy in their own kit without a ton of individual reworks. Some frames (Wukong, Octavia, Gara first that pop to mind for me) if built properly can do almost anything insanely well.

Using current frames awesome group synergies can be built for those who prefer powerful team builds as well.

Using Helminth powerful solo builds will be more doable for many frames that aren't as good at it currently. (Some frames like Zephyr will always be worthless in my mind, but some people like her so, meh?) Some people will always play to the meta and run only the most OP configuration possible. Other people have favorite frames and will play them almost exclusively. (despite having moved on from using him for everything when Octavia released and bouncing around to a few other frames since then, Frost Prime STILL has 43% of my missions.) That said, maybe that frame has a blaring weak spot in their kit. (looking at you Frost #2) and you would love to replace it with something more fun. Frost with Rest and Rage seems like it would be a lot of fun. I already run avalanche as offense quite often, and the ability to bank up a huge rage and then avalanche to drop defense by 50% and then utterly rip a whole wave of enemies apart sounds really cool! ... 

On the other hand, the frame I have played the second most is Octavia, and sadly, she has no good point of participation in this system. Her whole kit is so synergistic with itself that removing any of the abilities immediately throws her effectiveness out of whack. Then again I will freely admit her kit is insanely powerful, so it isn't like she NEEDS to be able to grab some OP ability from another frame to do everything well.

A lot of people are talking about things like armor strip using Ash's shurikens + syndicate mod ... Which for sure is something you can do, but it also comes with the downside that you are now adding a syndicate mod from another frame into your build. Where is it going to go? What are you losing for it? Odds are this will be fairly self-balancing. 

This system is going to shake the meta pretty hard I suspect, as frames that are absolute obvious best-in-class for virtually everything like Wukong will suddenly have challengers, but that isn't a bad thing for the game. It gives creativity an avenue at the player end and when push comes to shove, there is no brass ring we are racing for here, it is a PvE game. I strongly suspect we will see this disabled or strongly controlled in conclave so the 10 people who actually care about WF PvP won't be negatively impacted by it, but in the overall it just looks thoroughly like a positive to me. 

 

I don't think you've realised how broken this is mate. Let's take Dispensary as a great example. Let's choose Valkyr for our sample. Now all focus abilities like say Hysteria have the drawback of only being able to regain energy via energy orbs, Zenurik dash, energy pads etc don't work in these abilities. Now with dispensary you can CREATE an orb at any time, as often as you like. Couple that with arcane energize and Valkyr never needs to leave Hysteria EVER. That's just 1 example.

[Aj_Prime]

6 hours ago, --Q--Candy said:

This is incorrect. You have stuff like Volt - Shock there. With the Augment this is a crazy Ability to increase dmg. Can we get a limitation there too?

Shuriken + Seekign Shuriken = Remove Armor from all enemies... Now even grineer are a joke like all other factions.
Rest & Rage = Now you can bee your own Sleep Equinox to power level / fokus farm.
Nourish = Extremly strong toxin buff. The quote from above applies here.
Smite + Smite Infusion = Same thing as the Quote applies here and it even has scaling dmg...
Dispensary = Endless Energy for all Warframes.... This doesnt seem broken at all...

This system needs Heavy Nerfs and active maintenance.This has the potential to kill the balance in this game forever. If it will be relased like this and wont get balanced very often you can say goodbye to all sorts of Balance in this game.
I hope that you will do something about this, else we can say goodbye to ever have any challenge in this game.

 

(Shutout to the comment from --Q--FSK41 a few posts down. This System will kill everything)

The answer to your concern is that you forgot those augment mods are Warframe specific, meaning it can't be equipped but other Warframes.

Dispensary is not as broken as you think there is Tennos' energized dash (Zenurik focus) and energy pads that provide energy, therefore sacrificing an ability for Dispensary is not that worth doing.

[Skye_Archer]

Somewhat mixed feelings about Ivara's Quiver being the ability available after subsuming, partially because this ability although not powerful in terms of damage numbers as none of the arrows do damage per say, but the versatility of the power is what makes it so powerful in many situations... You aren't giving one power here, you literally are giving four!

Overwhelmed and unable to kill things fast enough? Put everyone to sleep! and kill one at a time

Overwhelmed and need to take a breather(or escape)? Cloak

Need to get the enemy away from something you are defending? Cloak + Noise arrow

Having difficulty parkour to a destination? daskwire!

All that said, many of Ivara's abilities are going to be problematic whichever one you choose to give out, but from my perspective... Quiver is exceptionally unbalancing due to the versatility of the power!

 

[(PSN)GuffyNuggets92]

Things bout to get crazy!

[-CdG-Zilchy]

3 minutes ago, Aj_Prime said:

Dispensary is not as broken as you think there is Tennos' energized dash (Zenurik focus) and energy pads that provide energy, therefore sacrificing an ability for Dispensary is not that worth doing.

Except for any frame using a  focus ability where those tactics don't work. Or did you forget that.

[Evhel]

4 minutes ago, Aj_Prime said:

The answer to your concern is that you forgot those augment mods are Warframe specific, meaning it can't be equipped but other Warframes.

DE stated you WILL be able to use augments.

[Wolfdoggie]

But how will I play Baby Shark through Octavia's ball without the other skills?

[Drachnyn]

Clan of known exploiters is complaining about the game being too easy. Big thonk.

[kgabor]

15 minutes ago, Vyra said:

So we help Valkyr to escape fro Alads sick hands, just to feed her to the infested...to gain her (War)>>>Cry<<<

 

This feels wrong.

Chaotic neutral alignment in a nutshell.