The Helminth: Dev Workshop

[(PSN)xBlake360]

12 hours ago, jesusdh said:

Mastery should be increased to 20+.

That's just plain stupid. Locking something behind MR is never fun, I would say 15 is good enough.

[Larcerus]

Yes Vaubans Teslas !!!! thank you so much ❤️

[(XBOX)MetalxPhoenix]

10 minutes ago, ShortCat said:

You are about to erase defining aspect of every frame, erase roles, homogenize them all into a tasteless pile as well as create a balance nightmare. At this point you are better off selling skill modules and Frame suits/skinns separately and completely decouple abilities from appearance.

This

[(PSN)xBlake360]

Also, I have a question. I now this is a stretch, but is there any chance for abilities to get sound changes when infused (pitch would be enough I guess)? Im mostly talking about abilities like Warcry or Roar, where we can hear a female/male scream when used. It would be cool if we infuse Warcry on male frames we would get something that sounds like a male (I would be fine with just putting Umbra's or Wolf's roar out of lazyness). On the other hand, I know that this is just a matter of details.

[-MG-CephalonCinnamon]

8 hours ago, (XB1)Huggs93 said:

 

yep glad im not the only one...

 

you might want to re read that i listed the only 8 good ones i listed nidus as good and yes as a guy who can take apart and assemble machines in my head yeah ive thought a lot about it...

ah my b, was triggered by all the idiocy from other people. But tbh more than 8 provide useful abilities, cloak will be useful for late game for example, wisp 3 is insane and garuda heal is trash (health is a trivial thing) im not going to expand like you did because i feel like ive had enough of reading things from people who are just focusing on 1 ability instead of how they can combo it.

[(PSN)xBlake360]

18 minutes ago, ShortCat said:

What about durable Frames, who do not have access to potent damaging abilities, because their kit is primary focused on survivability? Inaros with Eclipse will light years better than Mirage, because Inaros was not designed as a glass cannon. Furthermore, Petrify also increases damage in addition to massive CC potential.
Then, we can also flip the above argument. What about a glass cannon like Banshee with access to defensive abilities like Wukong's Defy?
Then, there is the ultimate utility ability called Larva (or Ensnare). Piling enemies in front of you is a very convenient feature, if you have limited range in offensive capabilities.

You are about to erase defining aspect of every frame, erase roles, homogenize them all into a tasteless pile as well as create a balance nightmare. At this point you are better off selling skill modules and Frame suits/skinns separately and completely decouple abilities from appearance.

That's the point of the system man. To make cool builds. To make your glass cannons more tanky if you want and to allow your tanks to deal dmg if you want. This system could go 2 ways, they would release bad abilities and the system would be obsolete and a waste of time OR they could do what they are doing now, which is releasing abilties that can be actually useful when infused. I understand your doubts about the system, but in reality I dont see it as a big problem. 1 ability change wont change frame role, but even if it does, it's up to the player what his frame changes into. It's a win/win scenario.

[Sahansral]

I second the notion that
Roar
Warcry
Eclipse
Quiver
Elemental Ward
will cause huge problems.
I'd preferred if DE would have gone the obvious way by choosing "weak" abilitites (Rhino Charge, Ripline, Navigator, Spectral Scream) and give them a good buff.
I wanted something that a gourmet could appreciate, something to spice up Warframe. If this goes live only the gourmands will get pleased (bigger numbers, even more ways to render AI useless, yeah!).

Who are you and what have you done to DE-Scott?!
(I remember Scott as the one guy who advocated against things like increasing auto-vacuum because it would break the balance. And now we get those abilities above for subsume?)

[Tipsy_Pixie]

Titania with the roar ability, hell yeah!

[-CdG-Zilchy]

47 minutes ago, master_of_destiny said:

4) You can undo everything with the press of a button.  Between this statement, and the already cited potential to screw with other systems, what is being sold to us is an incomplete mess.  No thoughts, potential feature breaks, and bizarro interactions.  That's not a new feature set, it's DE stating that they're releasing early alpha content and hiding it behind the veteran wall.  You have to be high enough mastery, which only means you've been grinding enough.  Alright, but that means you'll see veterans doing stupid and fun things.  Things that are broken, but will drive engagement because newer players will want access.  Fantastic, right?  Well, no.  Patch it out a few weeks after demonstration, and the new players who have been engaging will be frustrated.  Veterans move on to the next meta, and people will get frustrated that what they tried to earn was yanked away.  It's setting things up for failure, and claiming it's good because newer players won't have to be the balance testers.  

This is bang on the money. This, the potential of nerfs to ruin things like Adaro xp levelling and the power creep aspect are why I'm concerned.

[blackovercoat]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)xBlake360 said:

That's the point of the system man. To make cool builds. To make your glass cannons more tanky if you want and to allow your tanks to deal dmg if you want. This system could go 2 ways, they would release bad abilities and the system would be obsolete and a waste of time OR they could do what they are doing now, which is releasing abilties that can be actually useful when infused. I understand your doubts about the system, but in reality I dont see it as a big problem. 1 ability change wont change frame role, but even if it does, it's up to the player what his frame changes into. It's a win/win scenario.

i dont see the point of making a bad ability to just replace them rather than fix them and make them work, and again it will be hell to balance, what the point of making new ability kit for a frame, and balance and fix them when you can just replace them, this is not win/win this is a lazy way to fix the problem of warframe abilities and diversity right now, and the whole kit of warframe ability synergize with each other, and the fact that you need other member with diffirent warframe in your party because diffirent frame do diffirent thing, not 1 frame doing everything, and what the point of playing Rhino, when you have Inaros with Roar, beside you love Rhino look ????

[ShortCat]

9 minutes ago, (PS4)xBlake360 said:

1 ability change wont change frame role, but even if it does, it's up to the player what his frame changes into. It's a win/win scenario.

Except it will. Inaros with Eclipse is as potent DD as Mirage herself, with the "small" difference that he requires less skill to survive. At the same time, Mirage won't reach the same convenience lvl, because her base stats simply do not allow it. Gara is hitting for millions already, afterwards she will easely reach damage cap without any external help. Now, go and create content for a Frame who is immortal and reaches damage cap.

[Sebastianx]

12 hours ago, Roble_Viejo said:

MOST IMPORTANT ABILITIES IMO!
We have some Buffing abilities, a couple of "Signature" abilities and one Loot ability.

- BUFF: 
  - Roar, Smite Infusion and Shooting Gallery.
  All scale with Power Strength with no cap.
  Smite Infusion will be extremely relevant for Eidolons. 

- SIGNATURE:
  - Condemn, Dispensary and Quiver.
  Quiver is the one ability that surprised me the most to see here. I would expect to see this one replaced for Navigator.
  Condemn is fine but will make ShieldGate abusing available to all frames, I see this becoming a problem in the future.
  Dispensary is like a Sahasa, but remember it RESTORES ARCHWING MUNITION! 

- LOOT:
  - Petrify.
  Petrify is a nice CC ability, nothing wrong here, but its Augment: Ore Gaze gives an extra 25% chance to give additional loot from
  killing Petrified enemies, and IT SCALES WITH POWER STRENGTH! This one will get replaced or prevented from using its Augment.

DISCLAIMER: I was super excited to see some of these, but then I instantly remember how DE Monkey-Paw every single awesome update 
(like the self-damage removal making ALL AOE WEAPONS STAGGER, DE give me my Zakti back!!!).
So expect some hard """BALANCE""" in the future. 
Im typing all of these so you DO NOT invest too heavily on this system. Give it some time to settle down and the hammer nerf to act before 
commiting to these new builds.  

The only problematic abilities are Roar/Eclipse/Dispensary, if they get removed then the system is balanced

[RyAn0099]

14 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

We consider this a customization system for very experienced Warframe players (Mastery Rank 15 Prerequisite).

Glad there'll be no "halp I lost my only excal"

[(PSN)Ridab420]

Question: is there a limit to how many warframes/abilities the helminth can subsume??

[-MG-CephalonCinnamon]

9 hours ago, maximumpingas said:

And quiver requires at least two people with it to cloak the entire group with roughly 10s refresh time that is also something you need to land. Fairly balanced in comparison, non?

for most content yes. endgame (im defining endgame as requiem survival since its got scaling kuva so fighting lvl cap enemies inst a meme here) not so much. since u have 1 person to just cast it in the spots you need and you can stay still and vaporise enemies instead of bullet jumping and utilising shield gain abilities to survive. 

tldr - againt super high lvl enemies in survival or abries its REALLY strong, but in a ok way as it will be using a premade squad (not impacting randos games) and mainly for camping type strats.

camping stats can already deal with enemies dmg so this will just be a tool to make it more relaxing. (because contrary to some peoples belief, unless the tileset has a hole in the middle of a room, its not toooo difficult to #*!% up and get hit by a stray bullet or enemy sneaking thru)

[LarryOtter]

This looks really fun (and broken). Well done DE I’m hyped !

(pls don’t nerf anything before it ships...)

[DexterWolf]

Is Thermal Sunder getting its ability values at 0% Redline or 100% Redline?

[ebrl]

4 hours ago, (PS4)SlvrSwrd92 said:

Quick request to the community at large, if you hate an ability they picked please don't just complain without offering an alternative solution. If you wanna complain about rhinos roar go right ahead, I even tend to agree with you, but please be ready to explain why iron skin is so much better. Not trying to start fights I just like to see positive reasoning. Also I'm  going to bed now so I won't be able to reply for nineish hours, so keep that in mind if you have a reply for me specifically.

Quit that bullS#&$ amateur grade whiteknighting. Plenty of people have elaborated very thoroughly on why making Roar available to all frames is a terrible idea.

[PSvsXBOX]

@[DE]Rebecca Just to make sure, once we implemented an ability to a warframe, it will stay the same level? No need to level it up again? And what about augments, will warframes be able to use augments from other warframes or will it be too OP?

[Wicked069]

 inb4 cat dog

[ConsumerJTC]

Pillage Harrow ain't sounding so bad now.

That said, damage multiplying abilities on any frame that didnt have them before sounds like a really bad idea or a nasty setup for many frustrations to come.

Replace those with mirage mines or rhinos charge or something, they are still quite useful without creating the one meta ability to rule them all situation.

[Karonuva]

5 hours ago, (PS4)HerosLex said:

Rly? I am pretty sure, i have heard something like "NO SIGNATURE ABILITIES". And now i have to see this: Valkyr gives Warcry, one of two core Abilities to build her around. 

I don't get the "no signature abilities" thing because aren't all the abilities signature? Similarly, I'd rather have an ability that is fun rather than OP, even if it is 'signature' like Zephyrs Tail Wind, especially over something as forgettable as the air slash. 

[BlouSkerm]

Dont know if this has been said before. But maybe limit the converted abilities by 75% of what it was on the original warframe. Take rhino roar for example, which is normally 50% additional damage. Now 75% of that would be 37.5% which is a lot lower. So it might feel much more of a tradeoff now on the frame you slap it onto, and will also mean any rhino will not be outclassed as its own roar will always be more powerful. Same applies to the durations and ranges of the over powers

Furthermore it might make more sense that these swapped powers are not full strength, as they "need that frame" to work fully. Perhaps if DE ships out this system with such a limit, then it could be increased later as needed? Rather than nerf it later after everyone slaps roar on the number 2 of every frame haha. Just food for thought though.

[GKP_light]

"Zephyr : Base Ability Buffed - now has a HOLD or TAP functionality. HOLD to receive original functionality. TAP to suck enemies in a wind Vortex. "

this is good... this should be the base ability of Zephyr.

[Claric]

1 hour ago, (PS4)xBlake360 said:

That's the point of the system man. To make cool builds. To make your glass cannons more tanky if you want and to allow your tanks to deal dmg if you want. This system could go 2 ways, they would release bad abilities and the system would be obsolete and a waste of time OR they could do what they are doing now, which is releasing abilties that can be actually useful when infused. I understand your doubts about the system, but in reality I dont see it as a big problem. 1 ability change wont change frame role, but even if it does, it's up to the player what his frame changes into. It's a win/win scenario.

This guy gets it. The idea that things are going to become more homogenized than they already are is laughable. A team full of non-rhinos all with roar is going to have the same problem as a team full of rhinos. Players are going to have to coordinate anyways if they want balls to the wall min maxing. This already happens currently, so getting bent out of shape because some lesser-used frames can have a little shine just seems petty.

I honestly am starting to feel like people are getting anxious that their plat farms are going to get encroached on. When the only argument against a system like this in a non-competitive, PvE-centric game is "Players are going to be able to clear content faster/more comfortably with a wider variety of frames", it really makes you wonder.