The Helminth: Dev Workshop

[-CdG-Zilchy]

9 hours ago, selig_fay said:

First, the longer you are in peacemaker, the smaller your window for autoaim. This way your window becomes so small that you can banally use AOE weapons instead.

Second, what is the difference between Mesa with a dispenser and Mesa + Protea? I think having 2 dispensers would be a bit inappropriate.

The difference is I don't need to bring Protea in a group so let's stack on more damage. 

[-CdG-Zilchy]

9 hours ago, AlphaMegaManGX said:

When did you ever "NEED" a Rhino? You never NEEDed anyone in this game to do any content. People who want to play Rhino can still play Rhino if they want to. Infact they can play Rhino completely different now if they want.Not everyone is going to just grab Roar. There are tons of great abilities to pull from. Thats the beauty of this. 

you don't do long runs do you mate?

[selig_fay]

3 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Again are you people incapable of your own thoughts? EV is very useful in certain scenarios, just depends what content you are doing. If you're playing a long defense mission for example, using Frost bubble as the defense, it's nice to have a constant source of energy considering you're casting your frost bubble every 4 seconds. But now, everybody has energy vampire so we don't need Trinity. Or  we don't Rhino, etc

I want you to Wake up. Trinity is already unnecessary. Yes, it is useful, but you might as well take Wisp, which can give useful buffs and energy orbs with Dethcube.

[AlphaMegaManGX]

2 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Why do I need to recast it? It still works with the smaller reticle it's just slightly harder to aim and btw the damage increases as it shrinks. 
You're not looking at the big picture of frames becoming obsolete, the gap between good and bad frames increasing etc and the inevitable nerfs that will screw up other mechanics. Everyone always assumes that when you say it will break the game you mean just damage. I don't, I mean breaking parts of the game, like certain frames. And then there's the inevitable long term effect of  content becoming even more boring because we're even more OP.

You have to recast Dispenser.........it's not an infinite duration meaning you have to come out of Peacemaker, recast Dispenser and go back in. Which in that case its actually more efficient to have a Protea group with you and cast it since you don't have to leave in that case.

[Scar.brother.help.me]

20 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Ivara

Quiver

Empowered Quiver

Tap Cloak, Hold Noise. Augment only affects Cloak and Dashwire. 

Do not understand what it means. Something seems wrong in the description.

[selig_fay]

1 minute ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

The difference is I don't need to bring Protea in a group so let's stack on more damage.

Protea stopped buff shields and doing damage from the fact that Mesa got a dispenser?

[(XBOX)MetalxPhoenix]

1 minute ago, selig_fay said:

To be honest, I think Rhino will still be popular. Large CC and invulnerability make it strong. Just look at what ability you can use to strengthen Rhino and I think it will be stronger than many frames.

Take Nezha for instance and put Roar on him. Wards people with Aug and himself + objectives. Spears are CC similar to Stomp. Glaive to deal double damage to a single target and then replace Firewalker with Roar. You have a better Rhino in everyway.

Rhino will still be popular yes, until they figure out you can put his main ability on other frames such as Revenant and Inaros. And Inaros doesn't get rekt by Nullifier either.

I have thought of abilities like Cold Elemental Ward for millions of Iron skin. Thats the only ability that has potential on him. But that's it.

 

[o0Despair0o]

Looks like Nidus' Larva and Zephyr's Airburst are the only interesting abilities.

 

Good thing I never use those 2 anyway. Subsume away!

[-CdG-Zilchy]

9 hours ago, selig_fay said:

Protea stopped buff shields and doing damage from the fact that Mesa got a dispenser?

Is that endgame is it? 

[AlphaMegaManGX]

2 minutes ago, (XB1)MetalxPhoenix said:

Take Nezha for instance and put Roar on him. Wards people with Aug and himself + objectives. Spears are CC similar to Stomp. Glaive to deal double damage to a single target and then replace Firewalker with Roar. You have a better Rhino in everyway.

Rhino will still be popular yes, until they figure out you can put his main ability on other frames such as Revenant and Inaros. And Inaros doesn't get rekt by Nullifier either.

I have thought of abilities like Cold Elemental Ward for millions of Iron skin. Thats the only ability that has potential on him. But that's it.

 

Defy + Iron Skin is another.

[selig_fay]

1 minute ago, (XB1)MetalxPhoenix said:

Take Nezha for instance and put Roar on him. Wards people with Aug and himself + objectives. Spears are CC similar to Stomp. Glaive to deal double damage to a single target and then replace Firewalker with Roar. You have a better Rhino in everyway.

Rhino will still be popular yes, until they figure out you can put his main ability on other frames such as Revenant and Inaros. And Inaros doesn't get rekt by Nullifier either.

I have thought of abilities like Cold Elemental Ward for millions of Iron skin. Thats the only ability that has potential on him. But that's it.

Well, I still meet people who think Nezha has 0 impact. But I think that DE can also put a limit on Nezha, because Nezha 2 is a damage boost that is a debuff.

2 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Is that endgame is it? 

This is too philosophical a question.

[SirWumpyFlump]

I'm only here for the elbows.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

9 hours ago, selig_fay said:

Well, I still meet people who think Nezha has 0 impact. But I think that DE can also put a limit on Nezha, because Nezha 2 is a damage boost that is a debuff.

This is too philosophical a question.

Like I said we'll never agree lol. You don't play the game the same way I do. So our opinion will differ. But I can see the longterm issues from this. As I stated before, if DE actually knew how to balance things, I wouldn't be concerned but they'd just as soon take a hammer to fix a TV screen.

[(PSN)Kaiser_Rebellion]

18 hours ago, Chaincat said:

There's so much potential for this to outright break the game it's not even funny, and I love it. But, question, how will augment buffs stack? Ie, Volt's Shock Trooper with Ember's Fireball Frenzy? Is that subject to the double damage buff rule? Or can I have 600% rad damage and bring her to eidolons with some meme weapon like a mk1 braton?

Fireblast?

[(PSN)sister-hawk]

16 minutes ago, AlphaMegaManGX said:

I'm sitting here laughing at everyone preaching how OP anything is going to be. You realize that anything you can think of(Roar on Mesa, Dispensary on Anyone, ect) is already achieveable right? I can already play as Rhino in a group of Mesas and boom all the Mesas have Roar buff. I can already play as Protea in a group of Mesas and boom all the Mesas and stay in Peacewalker infinitely. Nothing is "game breaking" because everything you can possibly come up with is already possible in the game.

So you don’t see those things as a problem? Do you not think being able to “break” the game is an issue that will eventually harm the game itself?

Just because these problems already exist doesn’t mean they should double down on them. And the real problem is not that the game can already be broken now, but that the situation will be compounded further when DE tries to introduce content that is so hard it’s meant to “unbreak” the game by brute force, and what was considered broken before is then considered standard, and everything else is useless.

With some of the updates we’ve been getting over the last year I really thought DE had finally wised up and was starting to address some of the intrinsic problems with Warframe’s design, and this update is a shocking revelation that they have no such intentions at all.

[(XBOX)MetalxPhoenix]

Just now, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Like I said we'll never agree lol. You don't play the game the same way I do. So our opinion will differ.

Pretty much.

[(XBOX)BruhMomentWF]

19 hours ago, --Q--FSK41 said:

This System is broken and will break the game completely,it shouldn't come into the game so many broken  combinations,for example mesa and eclipse/roar = who the hell thought of this. its completely unbalanced PLEASE DE do NOT put this into the game,since you made enemies paper the game is already quite easy but with this its literally broken

Please remove the damage BUFFING and abilities that do scaling/area damage it will break the game too much

people like you are why this game is dying. let us have some fun for once

[AlphaMegaManGX]

Just now, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Like I said we'll never agree lol. You don't play the game the same way I do. So our opinion will differ. But I can see the longterm issues from this. As I stated before, if DE actually knew how to balance things, I wouldn't be concerned but they'd just as soon take a hammer to fix a TV screen.

I'm confused what are you wanting? Even if something you can think of is ACTUALLY game breaking. How does it matter for your "endgame"? Are you a Trin player that now thinks you can't play Trin? Are you a Rhino player salty about other people Roaring? What were you wanting here? Whats YOUR endgame?

[AlphaMegaManGX]

1 minute ago, (PS4)sister-hawk said:

So you don’t see those things as a problem? Do you not think being able to “break” the game is an issue that will eventually harm the game itself?

Just because these problems already exist doesn’t mean they should double down on them. And the real problem is not that the game can already be broken now, but that the situation will be compounded further when DE tries to introduce content that is so hard it’s meant to “unbreak” the game by brute force, and what was considered broken before is then considered standard, and everything else is useless.

With some of the updates we’ve been getting over the last year I really thought DE had finally wised up and was starting to address some of the intrinsic problems with Warframe’s design, and this update is a shocking revelation that they have no such intentions at all.

I don't see anything breaking the game.

[selig_fay]

1 minute ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Like I said we'll never agree lol. You don't play the game the same way I do. So our opinion will differ. But I can see the longterm issues from this. As I stated before, if DE actually knew how to balance things, I wouldn't be concerned but they'd just as soon take a hammer to fix a TV screen.

You just picked the wrong game. The warframe never had a balance. Even in the Conclave he is not and never has been. On the other hand, I don't know why I need it. The usefulness of a frame is a subjective thing. Someone will say that Loki is garbage, and someone will pass the entire game only Loki. 

[kusanagikyo]

Hmm i bet that i gonna see alot of players using roar and it gonna get a nerf really soon. Lot of frame have strong ability by it own and now ppl will using roar to buff it more.

[(PSN)sister-hawk]

1 minute ago, AlphaMegaManGX said:

I don't see anything breaking the game.

Then you aren’t looking.

[selig_fay]

2 minutes ago, kusanagikyo said:

Hmm i bet that i gonna see alot of players using roar and it gonna get a nerf really soon. Lot of frame have strong ability by it own and now ppl will using roar to buff it more.

This is the same if we start nerf nuckers. If we are nerf saryn, meta people will take equinox.

[(PSN)Kaiser_Rebellion]

18 hours ago, (NSW)TheP0w3r10154 said:

 

Well, there goes my fantasies of replacing Volt's 1 with Mach Rush. Yeah, it's my fault for getting my hopes up, but let a man dream!

 

Also, those Helminth abilities look sick. Power Strength bonus on next cast? Insta-shields? Auto-hack that (hopefully) works in Sorties? All pretty good so far. Hopefully we get a we get a few more before launch!

Same but there was a speed helmit ability so you can still be sonic 

[-CdG-Zilchy]

9 hours ago, AlphaMegaManGX said:

I'm confused what are you wanting? Even if something you can think of is ACTUALLY game breaking. How does it matter for your "endgame"? Are you a Trin player that now thinks you can't play Trin? Are you a Rhino player salty about other people Roaring? What were you wanting here? Whats YOUR endgame?

As I've said till I'm blue in the face and this will be the last time... 
Game breaking does not have to mean more OP damage.
- invalidating certain frames - go talk to Valkyr mains right now as an example
- DE's heavy handed, hamfisted approach to "balancing" ie nerfing the hell out of it, creating issues with other mechanics, for example they fix Rest being powerful on frames and accidently screw up Adaro xp levelling
- Increasing the gap between the strong frames getting stronger with 4 strong abilities and the average frames having 2 good abilities instead of 1.
- Becoming even more overpowered with yet more power creep, further trivializing any new content to be a complete snooze fest and rendering frames boring to use, see Revenant as an example of a very OP frame a lot of people find boring as hell. Also Octavia.

I honestly cannot make it any clearer than that. And it's the last time I'm going to attempt to. Half the people in this thread can understand these issues, half the people disagree. It's that simple.