The Helminth: Dev Workshop

[HunterDigi]

1 hour ago, [DE]Megan said:

Nidus - Larva
Radius reduced

Sigh, as if the range mods requirement wasn't enough.

[Sahansral]

vor 10 Minuten schrieb mikakor:

we would still be left with more mediocres abilities. that's a FACT. there's the good, and the bad one. if everything's left is the abd abilities, then it was a negative.

Just take a look at the list. Even if you are very discriminating, there are perhaps 10-11 abilities that are niche/bad. Those need a buff, but the rest is quite ok/good.
If DE tones down the 6 strong abilitites enough, we have a pool of 30 abilities that roughly equal in viability. That's a good system!
(And there are still some hidden gems, that give you that adrenalin kick)

[OniDax]

There's only one reason they changed it to MR8: quite a lot of people have been complaining about the MR9 test being broken, and because DE neither has the time nor the will to try to fix the test, they don't want these new players not engaging with the Helminth system. Now they can also justify nerfing these abilities and making the system a new player system by essentially rebalancing the system around MR8. The system loses all its appeal by no longer being a powerful, game-changing system for veterans/experienced players.

And, Congratulations! You're once again not delivering what you presented at Tennocon. Keep the tradition alive next year! 

[selig_fay]

1 minute ago, mikakor said:

i'm not talking for myself.

No one is forced to hurry the man you're talking about.

[[DE]Megan]

To offer further clarification on why we changed the Mastery Rank Prerequisite to MR 8:

There's many factors that come into play in order to engage with the Helminth system, such as:

• Having an ongoing supply of Resources that you don't need elsewhere to feed your Helminth
• Working your way up the Helminth rankings to unlock more features
• Having Warframes your ready/willing to Subsume

Looking at the above, we can see that higher rank players will be more equipped to offer these things to Helminth out the gate, where a MR 8 player will start with more accessible/cheaper Helminth Abilities first before diving deeper. Thus allowing MR 8 players to participate in Helminth and grow as they go.

[angetrox]

system downgrade?   B    ( 

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

22 minutes ago, [DE]Megan said:

EDIT: We have also changed the Mastery Rank Prerequisite of the Helminth Segment to 8 (was 15).

 please consider reversing this back to 15 .

I dont normally get involved but honestly.. I am imploring DE , to not change this to be below mr 15 . as any player can grind in a month to get to 15 , 8 more so (ive proven this myself by creating a new pc account ) granted i am a vet , but how to's and walk through exist to expedite and help speed run players through ranking up fast already and cause burn out as is, dont let this be another reason to cause burn out in new players.  all this will do... is get new players to  spam changes to frames they are not fully  ready for or  understand and will invite a very chaotic impact to the game as a whole as they will then leave, causing loss of player base.

From my and i feel others perspective, this was "claimed"  to be for experienced veteran players ,  who are required to have invested long time ,and effort into the game. so this sudden change without a rational explanation comes off as kind of backhand slap. And on top of it all  there a nerf to subsume system (before its released) ..?

this will badly impact new player experience . this system should be something we work hard to obtain and a reason to go beyond MR 8 then just to get syndicate weapons...this was to be the endgame not new player capable , and given the new player experience is in this update also, you should not want any issue to ruin the buildup and transition as new-players progress and work to obtain higher ranks at their own pace, not force to try and burn through ranks just to obtain a system that should be something they get after investing time and effort into the game, and be a fun thing to look forward to

I am very worried by the mentality behind this sudden action of changes

apologies if i come off as brash , but i am very disturbed and confused by this 

~Best Regards 

(as always) 

Mako

[SuperSmog]

3 minutes ago, [DE]Megan said:

To offer further clarification on why we changed the Mastery Rank Prerequisite to MR 8:

There's many factors that come into play in order to engage with the Helminth system, such as:

• Having an ongoing supply of Resources that you don't need elsewhere to feed your Helminth
• Working your way up the Helminth rankings to unlock more features
• Having Warframes your ready/willing to Subsume

Looking at the above, we can see that higher rank players will be more equipped to offer these things to Helminth out the gate, where a MR 8 player will start with more accessible/cheaper Helminth Abilities first before diving deeper. Thus allowing MR 8 players to participate in Helminth and grow as they go.

No at tennocon you said this system is NOT for newer players, therefore they should NOT have access to it (until they are at a higher level). I do not understand the logic behind this.

[Dalladir]

Why? I swear this community. ugh 

[Jim22]

1 hour ago, [DE]Megan said:

Rhino - Roar
Diminished Damage increase

Mirage - Eclipse
Diminished Damage increase and cap Damage Reduction 

Valkyr - Warcry
Attack speed increase reduced

Protea - Dispenser
Duration reduced

Nidus - Larva
Radius reduced

Wukong - Defy
Armor capped

can we get numbers please you cant just say damage reduction capped and expect us to know what the capped number is.

[SolidSnake8774]

4 minutes ago, [DE]Megan said:

To offer further clarification on why we changed the Mastery Rank Prerequisite to MR 8:

There's many factors that come into play in order to engage with the Helminth system, such as:

• Having an ongoing supply of Resources that you don't need elsewhere to feed your Helminth
• Working your way up the Helminth rankings to unlock more features
• Having Warframes your ready/willing to Subsume

Looking at the above, we can see that higher rank players will be more equipped to offer these things to Helminth out the gate, where a MR 8 player will start with more accessible/cheaper Helminth Abilities first before diving deeper. Thus allowing MR 8 players to participate in Helminth and grow as they go.

why would you introduce a system that requires resources, to players that need to use those resources and dont even know the value of some resources over others yet though?

And not to mention these players are STILL learning the fundamentals and have so many other systems bombarding them at this point already.

[selig_fay]

2 minutes ago, [DE]Megan said:

To offer further clarification on why we changed the Mastery Rank Prerequisite to MR 8:

There's many factors that come into play in order to engage with the Helminth system, such as:

• Having an ongoing supply of Resources that you don't need elsewhere to feed your Helminth
• Working your way up the Helminth rankings to unlock more features
• Having Warframes your ready/willing to Subsume

Looking at the above, we can see that higher rank players will be more equipped to offer these things to Helminth out the gate, where a MR 8 player will start with more accessible/cheaper Helminth Abilities first before diving deeper. Thus allowing MR 8 players to participate in Helminth and grow as they go.

But on the other hand, new players will not get the experience of clean warframes that veterans have received for many years.

[mikakor]

1 minute ago, [DE]Megan said:

To offer further clarification on why we changed the Mastery Rank Prerequisite to MR 8:

There's many factors that come into play in order to engage with the Helminth system, such as:

• Having an ongoing supply of Resources that you don't need elsewhere to feed your Helminth
• Working your way up the Helminth rankings to unlock more features
• Having Warframes your ready/willing to Subsume

Looking at the above, we can see that higher rank players will be more equipped to offer these things to Helminth out the gate, where a MR 8 player will start with more accessible/cheaper Helminth Abilities first before diving deeper. Thus allowing MR 8 players to participate in Helminth and grow as they go.

no comments on the nerfed abilities yet? that's not gonna pass. this wans't reasonable, either logical or anything. this was out of sentiment and feeling, nothing else. nothing logical.

 

 

3 minutes ago, Sahansral said:

Just take a look at the list. Even if you are very discriminating, there are perhaps 10-11 abilities that are niche/bad. Those need a buff, but the rest is quite ok/good.
If DE tones down the 6 strong abilitites enough, we have a pool of 30 abilities that roughly equal in viability. That's a good system!
(And there are still some hidden gems, that give you that adrenalin kick)

except that the abilities they nerfed are basic abilities, they're not OP. they're just good. they're perfectly fine the way they are. and nerfind them is idiotic. they should rather buff the worse one, so that all of them see use. DE doesn't  ( never) take a moment to think as to WHY an ability is used more than another. if they compare lets say roar and Zephyr air burst, they'll nerf roar purely based on the usage number, rather than trying to LEARN why the ability is more used.

( spoiler, that's because air burst SUCKS. but they're not able yet to udnerstand these nuances, which would drastically improve the game. )

[-KenSasaki90-]

Gerade eben schrieb SuperSmog:

No at tennocon you said this system is NOT for newer players, therefore they should NOT have access to it. I do not understand the logic behind this.

THIS by a LOT!!!!!

[(NSW)DrDudi]

hace 3 minutos, [DE]Megan dijo:

To offer further clarification on why we changed the Mastery Rank Prerequisite to MR 8:

There's many factors that come into play in order to engage with the Helminth system, such as:

• Having an ongoing supply of Resources that you don't need elsewhere to feed your Helminth
• Working your way up the Helminth rankings to unlock more features
• Having Warframes your ready/willing to Subsume

Looking at the above, we can see that higher rank players will be more equipped to offer these things to Helminth out the gate, where a MR 8 player will start with more accessible/cheaper Helminth Abilities first before diving deeper. Thus allowing MR 8 players to participate in Helminth and grow as they go.

Yes, this Helminth was not meant to be "end-game" content, but rather MR gated to a point that players use it as intended and I think it could be archieved below MR15

[KIREEK]

17 minutes ago, --RV--Faras said:

MR does matter, a lot actually, and you know it does. You have over 7k hrs in game with almost all operations done, you know that over time, things change, new things come out, some things die.

You may be mr16 but you have probably enough experience to get to MR20+ if you wanted to. An mr8 with one loadout semi-optimal does not have the same experience as an mr 29 with all weapons fully optimized and tested

I genuinely have no idea what point you're trying to prove by staying at mr16.... maybe you're just there to reassure the 20 hour mr7s that think they know everything about the game... 

Players (without exceptions) that believe that MR matters are below average sadly.

I experienced more changes than most and one thing that never changes are the players that believe MR is relevant, DE in a way believes that to force you believe in it aswell, that's where the grind is, but i figured it out a VERY long time ago what really matters.
Obviously i can only show the door.

Quote

with almost all operations done

Almost? k

[-GC-Alex51-GC-]

2 minutes ago, [DE]Megan said:

To offer further clarification on why we changed the Mastery Rank Prerequisite to MR 8:

There's many factors that come into play in order to engage with the Helminth system, such as:

• Having an ongoing supply of Resources that you don't need elsewhere to feed your Helminth
• Working your way up the Helminth rankings to unlock more features
• Having Warframes your ready/willing to Subsume

Looking at the above, we can see that higher rank players will be more equipped to offer these things to Helminth out the gate, where a MR 8 player will start with more accessible/cheaper Helminth Abilities first before diving deeper. Thus allowing MR 8 players to participate in Helminth and grow as they go.

Well , most of 8 mr friends of my have 5-6 frames . Thats 5-6 abilitis actualy 

 

[HeintZ77]

Why have you chanced the Mastery Rank Prerequisite down. If anything that should go up not down 15 was a good prerequisite but 8 is to low for endgame level stuff. I would say endgame isnt even mr 15 but its not to high or to low for the new system. 

[Boll]

il y a 5 minutes, [DE]Megan a dit :

To offer further clarification on why we changed the Mastery Rank Prerequisite to MR 8:

There's many factors that come into play in order to engage with the Helminth system, such as:

• Having an ongoing supply of Resources that you don't need elsewhere to feed your Helminth
• Working your way up the Helminth rankings to unlock more features
• Having Warframes your ready/willing to Subsume

Looking at the above, we can see that higher rank players will be more equipped to offer these things to Helminth out the gate, where a MR 8 player will start with more accessible/cheaper Helminth Abilities first before diving deeper. Thus allowing MR 8 players to participate in Helminth and grow as they go.

What about they continue to discover the game and finishing the starchart before putting roar on their Inaros?
What amount of ressource a MR8 have ? they have nothing to put in the helminth system,  even making this a MR15 felt very low. I thought that was a Veteran thing. You really are putting hype on things and then #*!%ing everyone in the back. AS ALWAYS.

[FSK41]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb [DE]Megan:

To offer further clarification on why we changed the Mastery Rank Prerequisite to MR 8:

There's many factors that come into play in order to engage with the Helminth system, such as:

• Having an ongoing supply of Resources that you don't need elsewhere to feed your Helminth
• Working your way up the Helminth rankings to unlock more features
• Having Warframes your ready/willing to Subsume

Looking at the above, we can see that higher rank players will be more equipped to offer these things to Helminth out the gate, where a MR 8 player will start with more accessible/cheaper Helminth Abilities first before diving deeper. Thus allowing MR 8 players to participate in Helminth and grow as they go.

There are only a few abilities that will be used anyway,so in short   people will have access to the good abilities straight away and forget about the other 20 abilities altogether . This is also no limitation for old/veteran players like promised/proclaimed. It defeats the entire POINT of an ,,endgame'' system if you can access it after playing for 2 weeks

[vFlitz]

6 minutes ago, [DE]Megan said:

To offer further clarification on why we changed the Mastery Rank Prerequisite to MR 8:

There's many factors that come into play in order to engage with the Helminth system, such as:

• Having an ongoing supply of Resources that you don't need elsewhere to feed your Helminth
• Working your way up the Helminth rankings to unlock more features
• Having Warframes your ready/willing to Subsume

Looking at the above, we can see that higher rank players will be more equipped to offer these things to Helminth out the gate, where a MR 8 player will start with more accessible/cheaper Helminth Abilities first before diving deeper. Thus allowing MR 8 players to participate in Helminth and grow as they go.

All of the above only makes it more reasonable to keep the lock higher so players who might not know any better don't pointlessly bleed themselves out of time and resources for something they can get no meaningful results from yet, when they still have so much other stuff to do in the game.

[Lokidus_Prime]

49 minutes ago, [DE]Megan said:

EDIT: We have also changed the Mastery Rank Prerequisite of the Helminth Segment to 8 (was 15).

MR 8 is way too low.  Any legit new players that I've helped out in recent years barely understand how all the systems and such work by the time they get to that MR.  This is generally speaking of course as some people learn faster/slower than others, but it's still pretty consistent where new players are at on average by that point in the game. It has to be kept in mind that new players can reach MR8 pretty quickly and can still very much get themselves into things they're not quite ready to deal with.  The system that was specifically announced to be for experienced players would very much be one of those things, as most MR8s generally are not very experienced players.

Also, while I can't say that I couldn't see the nerfs coming for the stronger abilities, there are still others that still very much need some love to make them any sorts of viable as a subsumable ability, regardless of how much or little the 'good' abilities are.  Loki's Decoy, I'm lookin at you.

[ZukeZima]

1 hour ago, [DE]Megan said:

AUGUST 19TH UPDATE:

Greetings, Tenno!

The launch of Heart of Deimos grows near, and we have some Helminth updates since we last posted! Below are 2 parts of updated/clarifying information that touches both Infused Warframe Abilities and the Helminth Segment acquisition.  

PART 1 - Changes to select Infused Warframe Abilities

Please keep in mind we’re still testing/playing around with the values for each, hence why the values are not present below:

The following only apply to Infused Warframe Abilities:

Rhino - Roar
Diminished Damage increase

Mirage - Eclipse
Diminished Damage increase and cap Damage Reduction 

Valkyr - Warcry
Attack speed increase reduced

Protea - Dispenser
Duration reduced

Nidus - Larva
Radius reduced

Wukong - Defy
Armor capped

Why do these Infused Warframe Abilities have these rules?
It was apparent in player feedback and play testing that these Infused Warframe Abilities had the potential to be the overwhelming choice; which is not ideal. Instead of changing the Ability outright due to those concerns, we decided to give them slight rules when Infused.

PART 2 - Helminth Segment Acquisition

As already indicated in this Dev Workshops original post, the Helminth Segment is acquired in the Heart of Deimos in the Entrati Syndicate. To expand on that, this means you’ll need to progress within the Entrati Syndicate located within the Necralisk to obtain the Helminth Segment before you can start experimenting with everything Helminth. 

Without spoiling too much, the Helminth Segment is currently obtained in Rank 3 of the Entrati Syndicate. This reminder is simply to set expectations on what you’ll have access to upon logging into the Heart of Deimos. 

That’s all for now!

the full list of damage buffs that share that restriction, do you already have them?

[Kylo.]

4 minutes ago, [DE]Megan said:

Looking at the above, we can see that higher rank players will be more equipped to offer these things to Helminth out the gate, where a MR 8 player will start with more accessible/cheaper Helminth Abilities first before diving deeper. Thus allowing MR 8 players to participate in Helminth and grow as they go.

If the system is limiting itself to higher mastery player, why need a mastery lock at all?

[Jarriaga]

57 minutes ago, (PS4)Shaun-T-Wilson said:

Because player moan after, complaining about lost investments and wanting compensation. They also say that DE should playtest first to see any issues. DE done this and players are still moaning. They cant win can they?

You're not supposed to point that out. At the end it always boils down to "if it's not a buff, it sucks". The timing (Before or after release) doesn't matter. Asking for DE "to test things before release" is a red herring so people's thinly-veiled "always buff, never nerf" entitlement appears to be more reasonable.

With that said, Reb explicitly said in her August 3rd interview with Shy that many abilities would be buffed for the system, with the changes to Zephyr's ability being an example. This was a logical expectation because even before the list was revealed and Ripline was considered to be Valkyr's chosen ability,  it would have had to compete with the rest. It's an ability that was going to need a lot of help in order to be made into a viable choice.

Then the list was revealed and not only was Warcry chosen over Ripline, but no buffs were listed for abilities other than Zephyr's. This means that the gap would only widen with Roar and Eclipse now on the list. And now, they are nerfing those abilities when used in the system. 

I am usually OK with nerfs, but DE just handled this in the worst possible way they could by:

1) Going against the expectations they themselves set as mediocre abilities such as Reave, Mind Control and Ice Wave not getting buffed.

2) Setting even more unrealistic expectations by choosing extremely powerful abilities.

3) Nerfing the chosen abilities that stand out.

The combination of those 3 actions just seem like self-sabotage at this point.