The Helminth: Dev Workshop

[FSK41]

vor 1 Minute schrieb -Zr-Scroll:

What's the reasoning for this?

I think that Helminth system is really supposed to be only for dedicated players who truly understand the mechanics of the game and have the resources/mods to utilize something like this. MR8 players WON'T have excess resources to waste for something like this. They should be focusing on other core progressions. I think that the MR15 was completely fine and justified for a system like this.

There are PRIME weapons that are locked behind MR14 and MR15. Making Helminth system only MR8 feels really weird and 'upside down'.

And on that topic, Kuva Weapons apparently have MR locks too, but those actually don't currently work? As I've seen even MR5-MR8 players using Kuva Brammas, which tbh is unhealthy for the core progression. Mastery Rank up tests should open access to each Kuva Weapon tier. So if you are MR13 you get access to Kuva Lich system and can get Larvling only with MR13 Kuva Weapons. When you rank up to MR15 you can get Larvlings that have Kuva Bramma etc. Ofc this should be clearly visible/shown ingame after Mastery rank up: "Grineer Queens have upgraded their Liches with new weaponry! Seek new Larvling to acquire the following: (list of items now available via the Kuva Lich system)"

But if you insist to make Helminth system as low as MR8, at least tie some other prerequisites to it so new players can't access it in a week of starting a new account.

Or is the reasoning this? ::: New players can free up warframe slots earlier with subsuming? Causing less platinum strain on them early on?

The difference between MR8 and MR15 is insanely HUGE, something like MR12 might have been 'fair enough' as it at least needs some dedication to get to unlike MR8 which you get passively by the time you're done with The War Within.

Just help me understand what purpose does it serve to have access to Helminth in early game? 😟

read first sentence and 100% agree with him

[Nash]

2 minutes ago, SuperSmog said:

With all due respect, the system you guys showed off at tennocon got me hyped, first workshop it was good. It was good as is, sure the ability changes are fine imo. But the MR req. was perfect and we were about to get a system for HIGHER level players as you guys said yourselves at tennocon. Now you are going back on your word.

I been saw this coming and I agree with these ability changes but they need to change that MR requirement back, they're DEsrespecting my time and other folk's time doing that.

 

[(NSW)DrDudi]

MR 12 at least?

[(XBOX)MiKietzbot]

Ya know, I was actually hyped for this. But then DE made changes that just disappoints me greatly. We all, Fans AND DE, should have seen this coming. It has, after all, happened every major update. I honestly have lost much of my interest in this update. Guess I shouldnt have gotten my hopes up about no surprise nerfs. G'day.

 

[IRVoidGuru]

18 minutes ago, [DE]Megan said:

To offer further clarification on why we changed the Mastery Rank Prerequisite to MR 8:

There's many factors that come into play in order to engage with the Helminth system, such as:

• Having an ongoing supply of Resources that you don't need elsewhere to feed your Helminth
• Working your way up the Helminth rankings to unlock more features
• Having Warframes your ready/willing to Subsume

Looking at the above, we can see that higher rank players will be more equipped to offer these things to Helminth out the gate, where a MR 8 player will start with more accessible/cheaper Helminth Abilities first before diving deeper. Thus allowing MR 8 players to participate in Helminth and grow as they go.

 Most of the player complaints that I can see here stem from the fear that others will use only one, maybe a small set of abilities. 

What this is proposing is that low mastery players will be able to get the system but not be able to level it, so only have the subsumed slots for x number of powers. These low MR players will then YouTube "best chrysalis choices" rather the thinking for themselves and you will end up creating the fear that players are expressing. Then opening the requirement to tweak popular/overused powers , so it opens the want to use the system as a whole by removing the viability of the previously mentioned popular powers.

[-Onyx-Zodiac]

Tennocon was Genuinly good, the 1st Dev Workshop too, then this one, beeing Utter Crap 
Reducing MR Req down to 8? 
Reducing Ability Strength? 

Why the Hell bring this new System into the game at all? 
To Cater once again ( like always ) to newer Players and say Screw all those Players that are Longtime Players and probably for the First Time ever thought " wow DE is doing something for 15+? us Longtime Players apparently aren't Really Dead in their Eyes " ) 

Well Yeah, seems like Us Longtime Players are Indeed Dead in your Eyes. 

[Sahansral]

vor 1 Minute schrieb mikakor:

no. the problem is the opposite. the problem is that the other abilities are just fillers. they're useless. most of them anyway.

I can't disagree with you here. Some frames really show their age and/or another design philosophy.

[Drachnyn]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb [DE]Megan:

PART 2 - Helminth Segment Acquisition

As already indicated in this Dev Workshops original post, the Helminth Segment is acquired in the Heart of Deimos in the Entrati Syndicate. To expand on that, this means you’ll need to progress within the Entrati Syndicate located within the Necralisk to obtain the Helminth Segment before you can start experimenting with everything Helminth. 

Without spoiling too much, the Helminth Segment is currently obtained in Rank 3 of the Entrati Syndicate. This reminder is simply to set expectations on what you’ll have access to upon logging into the Heart of Deimos. 

That’s all for now!

I'd like it to be sooner in the syndicate since the connection to it is pretty much non-existent and I want to get started on this new cool system asap since it comes with a 23h wait timer on the first ability anyway.

[Kai]

If I can provide a feedback, I would rather prefer to increasing the Mastery Rank prerequisite for Helminth Subsumes (or at least prevent newer players from subsuming their warframes). Newer players without any guidance from a veteran player will most definitely Subsume warframes that are locked behind Quest Lines, requiring them to farm Simaris Standing in order to re-acquire it which may also cause frustrations early on. At best, provide a Helminth a ToS on Subsuming, clearly outlining the consequences of subsuming a warframe similar to Valence Fusion (which I know is already implemented, but at least put a countdown before a player can type "FUSE" in it). 

I agree with the majority of those who say this should be locked behind a higher mastery rank, Warframe has a lot of option to explore, even early on. Throwing this into the mix where they are still in the process of "Adapting" and "Learning" the deeper mechanics and other gameplay of Warframe would just be chaotic. 

[Oorel]

19 minutes ago, [DE]Megan said:

To offer further clarification on why we changed the Mastery Rank Prerequisite to MR 8:

There's many factors that come into play in order to engage with the Helminth system, such as:

• Having an ongoing supply of Resources that you don't need elsewhere to feed your Helminth
• Working your way up the Helminth rankings to unlock more features
• Having Warframes your ready/willing to Subsume

Looking at the above, we can see that higher rank players will be more equipped to offer these things to Helminth out the gate, where a MR 8 player will start with more accessible/cheaper Helminth Abilities first before diving deeper. Thus allowing MR 8 players to participate in Helminth and grow as they go.

It takes a long time to get excess resources. A long time to get familiar with the many game-systems. When I was at mr8 I knew almost nothing, had nothing. This wound not be good for me at that time.

 

Lowering to mr8 makes sense if you what this system to be accessible, but you've talked about it as something more focused on players deeper into the progression. This is nonsensical. 

[(PSN)DidelphisV]

How lame are you people? No inspiration whatsoever. You just immediately jump for damage buffs without even considering the alternatives. We’re getting so many good abilities, but you can’t process anything more than “hurr durr bigger numbers”

Meanwhile I’ll be using actual fun stuff like Ensnare on Atlas, and Condem on Hildryn.

[Hallowieners]

Expected some of the abilities to be nerfed but the MR change came at a surprise. It does allow newer players to free up their frame slot earlier so I don't see the harm.

[(PSN)sew310]

Helminth system D.O.A

[Plagha]

the next changes...

AUGUST 24TH UPDATE:

Greetings, Tenno!

The launch of Heart of Deimos grows near, and we have some Helminth updates.

PART 1

We get rid of the Helmint System.

Why?

Because, that's it.

 

 

 

[Syln]

il y a 49 minutes, CeruleanHex a dit :

Then they wouldn't even be worth using. I'd rather have Rhinos charge at that point if it does happen.

Sadly that's how it goes, they will either be underwhelming or a no-brainer (for any warframe that don't have a damage boost ability i mean).

That being said i don't think it was the right decision and certainly not the most fair, for instance : A rhino will have access to his roar at full capability + other helminth ability that aren't nerfed, while any other warfrale will have access to a nerfed version + other helminth ability.

That basically resume my feeling about the helminth system, and point out on another question : what is the role of a specific warframe, what make it unique and should that thing that make it unique be shared with any other warframe and if the answer is yes, why nerfing it on other ?.

A solution that i'd love to see is to be able to create an helminth warframe that you can configure at your liking : its shield, base health, armor, energy pool, speed, passive and power (picked in the helminth power pool.) basically you set the stats and power and then create it from helminth.

Each warframe will keep their identity and you'll have your own custom warframe.

 

[Zahnny]

1 hour ago, [DE]Megan said:

Protea - Dispenser

 

Duration reduced

[SuperSmog]

1 minute ago, Hallowieners said:

Expected some of the abilities to be nerfed but the MR change came at a surprise. It does allow newer players to free up their frame slot earlier so I don't see the harm.

They wont have the resources to do so xD

[EmberStar]

25 minutes ago, HeintZ77 said:

Why have you chanced the Mastery Rank Prerequisite down. If anything that should go up not down 15 was a good prerequisite but 8 is to low for endgame level stuff. I would say endgame isnt even mr 15 but its not to high or to low for the new system. 

When did anyone say endgame?  Why does every new system DE adds get declared as "endgame" by someone?  "Advanced system" doesn't mean endgame, and never has.

[Oorel]

1 minute ago, Hallowieners said:

Expected some of the abilities to be nerfed but the MR change came at a surprise. It does allow newer players to free up their frame slot earlier so I don't see the harm.

while having to spend a lot of resources feeding the helminth? yeah great

[(NSW)DrDudi]

hace 1 minuto, Hallowieners dijo:

Expected some of the abilities to be nerfed but the MR change came at a surprise. It does allow newer players to free up their frame slot earlier so I don't see the harm.

The harm was that this was suppose to be kind of a "gift" from DE to longtime players, at least from their perspective, and now is showing that it wasn't x.x

[aligatorno]

32 minutes ago, [DE]Megan said:

To offer further clarification on why we changed the Mastery Rank Prerequisite to MR 8:

There's many factors that come into play in order to engage with the Helminth system, such as:

• Having an ongoing supply of Resources that you don't need elsewhere to feed your Helminth
• Working your way up the Helminth rankings to unlock more features
• Having Warframes your ready/willing to Subsume

Looking at the above, we can see that higher rank players will be more equipped to offer these things to Helminth out the gate, where a MR 8 player will start with more accessible/cheaper Helminth Abilities first before diving deeper. Thus allowing MR 8 players to participate in Helminth and grow as they go.

With all due respect Megan, this doesn't make any sense. 

With this change you've made a completely 180 paradigm shift from what you've advertised at Tennocon. This system is with the current requirements no longer "made/indended" for experienced players, it's only more accessible. That is quite a big difference in my opinion.

Allowing such early players to access this system will create resource sink which will most likely lead to a high level ammount of frustration for them. Due to the inexperience with the game's system, they will most likely make mistakes on wasting valuable resources on this without much gain, halting proper progression.

Not only that, but as some have already mentioned below, because they will be so limited in their choices, they will not experiment at all, they will just google the best ability/combination and that would be it. 

I get that you want as many people to have access to it, as the monetization will be even higher than with only veterans, but try to consider player experience and possible effects more.

 

[MaraWuti]

Wtf? MR15 was fine. This was supposed to be for players with a lot of progression and experience under their belts, and now you're doing a 180 and handing it to new players? Why?

[---Swaggi---]

2 minutes ago, Plagha said:

the next changes...

AUGUST 24TH UPDATE:

Greetings, Tenno!

The launch of Heart of Deimos grows near, and we have some Helminth updates.

PART 1

We get rid of the Helmint System.

Why?

Because, that's it.

 

 

 

Plz be this a real possibility xD

[(XBOX)AMONGTHEWEAK]

They really seem to be desperately grabbing at trying to bring players back. It might just work.

[Passeeo]

So instead of improving some of the absolutely awful abilities that are available to be used, you nerf the ones that had a chance of bringing up Warframes that have 2/3/4 terrible abilities up to fit for purpose? 

This is such a negative way of going about this update.

People are always going to gravitate towards the most powerful frames and builds, however i looked at this system as a way to encourage me to create a build on a frame i use very little or not at all and feel like i'm not completely gimped. 

Why you have chosen to make this measure on the basis of testing, where everyone that is trying this out will be going straight for the most powerful build they can make, instead of releasing this, seeing how the community at large uses this system for a couple of months and then making changes is beyond me. 

Enthusiasm for this update is doused, great job.