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4 minutes ago, Sahansral said:

Easier said than done. 

Just imagine by which amount you would have to buff abilities like air burst, decoy or hydoid barrage to make competitive to the top abilities.

And every ability being competitive is bad, because...?

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8 minutes ago, ---Swaggi--- said:

they still have overseen shock trooper and oberons 1st ability which are just insanely strong

Shock Trooper and Smite/Smite Infusion are quite good. The issue with Shock Trooper and Smite Infusion, compared to the rest, is not only does your build need an open ability slot, but an open mod slot as well. And high power strength. That makes them less universally adoptable, so they'll go unnoticed for quite a while, even as players talk about them.

So many of the subsumed skills are just trash though. And the only 3 subsumed mobility skills, Molt, Firewalker, and Reave aren't the greatest. Like, I feel like Wukong should never have given defy in the first place, his offering should have been Cloudwalker.

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1 hour ago, Jim22 said:

can we get numbers please you cant just say damage reduction capped and expect us to know what the capped number is.

Did you not read at all?

The numbers aren't done yet. They'll tell us when they're done. 

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I feel lowering the MR requirement is a bit of a mistake for one reason: at MR8 the player will be inundated with a bunch of systems already in place. The helminth system will be another layer of complexity a player at that level doesn't really need. At that MR they'll have to deal with building up their arsenal, collecting mods, Relic hunts, Eidolons/Profit Taker, Focus farming, Liches and that whole system, Factions, and more that I can't really remember at this particular moment. They may have the resources to burn but those resources will best go to places like building new frames/weapons, building up dojos, or whatever else.

Also having something tied to the progression adds a goal for the player. In fact, it probably would have worked best to increase the requirement because as it stands right now once MR16 is reached there's no real reason to go beyond that. However, if Helminth required say - MR18 - then there's another system to work towards beyond rivens.

I mean in my part I'll likely just ignore the Helminth system altogether until I feel like opening another avenue so it doesn't really bother me either way.

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2 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

AUGUST 19TH UPDATE:

Greetings, Tenno!

The launch of Heart of Deimos grows near, and we have some Helminth updates since we last posted! Below are 2 parts of updated/clarifying information that touches both Infused Warframe Abilities and the Helminth Segment acquisition.  

PART 1 - Changes to select Infused Warframe Abilities

Please keep in mind we’re still testing/playing around with the values for each, hence why the values are not present below:

The following only apply to Infused Warframe Abilities:

Rhino - Roar
Diminished Damage increase

Mirage - Eclipse
Diminished Damage increase and cap Damage Reduction 

Valkyr - Warcry
Attack speed increase reduced

Protea - Dispenser
Duration reduced

Nidus - Larva
Radius reduced

Wukong - Defy
Armor capped


Why do these Infused Warframe Abilities have these rules?
It was apparent in player feedback and play testing that these Infused Warframe Abilities had the potential to be the overwhelming choice; which is not ideal. Instead of changing the Ability outright due to those concerns, we decided to give them slight rules when Infused.


PART 2 - Helminth Segment Acquisition

As already indicated in this Dev Workshops original post, the Helminth Segment is acquired in the Heart of Deimos in the Entrati Syndicate. To expand on that, this means you’ll need to progress within the Entrati Syndicate located within the Necralisk to obtain the Helminth Segment before you can start experimenting with everything Helminth. 

Without spoiling too much, the Helminth Segment is currently obtained in Rank 3 of the Entrati Syndicate. This reminder is simply to set expectations on what you’ll have access to upon logging into the Heart of Deimos. 

That’s all for now!

Hi, Megan.

While I understand the changes, I can't help but feel that DE took a lot of the vitriol too seriously from a small part of the community who didn't even think through and just looked at the original ideas superficially.

Take Rhino's Roar for example, people kept complaining it would break the game if a DPS Warframe got it as an ability. Which couldn't be farther from the truth, otherwise every time a DPS Warframe was in the same team as a Rhino and received the Roar buff, it broke the game...

Rhino is in the game for years and years, and it never broke the game in that way. Yet people kept complaining about issues like this which aren't really issues.

Another thing to take into consideration is that for Solo players who never get the benefit of easier missions due to being 1 vs a team of 4, abilities like Rhino's Roar would be great to help them compliment their Warframe's abilities and specially weapons' damage, which if you are levelling weapons and the damage output is low, missions can take considerably longer because of it and a DPS boost is exactly what would help make these missions faster.

If the decrease in boost is permanent, I would at least ask that the developers at DE consider keeping the "damage buff abilities" with the same original power for weapons. This way it circumvents the imaginary "broken" scenario in which a DPS Warframe gets a damage buff, while allowing weapons to get the damage buff.

I just hope this doesn't make people now start complaining that weapons getting damage buff will brake the game... when you can use any weapon with any damage increasing ability Warframe for years and it has always been fine. Anyway, I hope this reach the developers.

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LMAO at people crying about a system before its released. Every one of you are still going to bumrush helminth and rage about it when its released

Edited by Hypernaut1
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2 hours ago, ---Swaggi--- said:

Not really since w/o his 1st augment iron skin is rather weak with its ~6k hp. Also you would need the 2nd augment in order to recast it otherwise you would be vulnerable if it runs out

If only you had 3 seconds of complete invulnerability to build up ridiculous amounts of Iron Skin health.

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4 minutes ago, Grey_Star_Rival_Defender said:

MR12. At the very least Helminth deserves a higher MR lock than Paracesis, which itself is a good mark between "player who doesn't know what they're doing" and "someone who ought to understand what 1K ducats are in terms of getting good weapons and mods."

I find that another acceptable lock is to have completed the steel path starchart

But may seem too extreme for some 

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vor 1 Minute schrieb kxZyle:

And every ability being competitive is bad, because...?

You misunderstood me. I‘d like to see all abilities viable and competitive. 

But some abilities are so low/bad at the moment, that I cannot fathom a way to make them competitive to things like roar.

DE would have to rebuild them from the scratch.

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dang and they  said stuff was gonna get nerfed right away.... next level  nerfs before it even  comes  out! real innovation with these new updates

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Ever since the system was announced, I wanted only one ability. I weighed it against the other abilities it was competing with on its Warframe, and managed to correctly call it before it was announced, it was announced. I was so close to getting it and now it's being nerfed. I apologize for sounding a little entitled but I'm just really bummed out.

The Ability I refer to is Protea's Dispensary, we don't have numbers but we've been informed it's getting its duration nerfed. It's the only ability from Protea's kit I actually cared about even before the system was announced.

I've asked in the past why Dispensary has a duration and isn't permanent like Wisp's Motes simply on the basis that no matter how you spin it, Protea's Dispensary will always be worse than a Trinity, that was before I knew they were going to slap it on every Warframe and before TennoCon. With it being announced it could go on any frame it makes sense that it had a timer in which case, fair's fair. But now on top of that, it's Duration is being nerfed. Why?

Even if you had 4 different players in a squad with Dispensary, or even a Trinity with Dispensary, Dispensary will always be inferior to a regular Trinity. Yeah we'd get some energy orbs, but anyone with a Zenurik school will get that much faster anyway. If anything, it might make less players rely on Zenurik diversifying's Focus school builds.

All I wanted was an Ammo Regen for any Warframe. I genuinely didn't care about any of the OP or Meta builds people had in mind.

Spoiler

This entirely sums up how I feel.

 

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Just now, (PS4)IrOrphanCrippler said:

I find that another acceptable lock is to have completed the steel path starchart

But may seem too extreme for some 

I'd say that's extreme mostly because of the pain of the Ropalolyst fight. Never bothered to get a good Operator? Guess you can't utilize Helminth. If Ropalolyst didn't exist I'd consider completing Steel Path a fair, though more difficult, lock than MR12.

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18 minutes ago, selig_fay said:

I think you're exaggerating. The problem is that good abilities are good abilities, and trash is trash. By the way, helminth has some good abilities, in case you haven't noticed. If Rhino gives 5%, I'll just take the ammo efficiency, because this thing will increase my DPS more than a measly 5%.

I don't see how your point contradicts what I think. In fact, you still choosing another ability over Mind Control exemplifies my point. Good and bad? Sure, but I and may others believe that there are orders of magnitude of degrees of separation between what is good or bad and that the gap is so wide that the label itself exemplifies how big the gap is.

How big of a buff would Mind Control need so you choose it over Energy Munitions? 

Energy Munitions is nerfed? What's next? And what would Mind Control need to be made into a viable choice over it?

The second choice was nerfed as well? What's the 3rd? And how much better is it still over Mind Control?

And so on.

And on.

And on.

Because that's how bad that ability is. As it currently stands, the rest are to be nerfed to the ground if DE insist on making it a viable choice without buffing it to a large degree.

Edited by Jarriaga
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Just now, Sahansral said:

You misunderstood me. I‘d like to see all abilities viable and competitive. 

But some abilities are so low/bad at the moment, that I cannot fathom a way to make them competitive to things like roar.

DE would have to rebuild them from the scratch.

Well, in that case, they better get started sooner rather than later! 

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Just now, Gaz_TTV said:

dang and they  said stuff was gonna get nerfed right away.... next level  nerfs before it even  comes  out! real innovation with these new updates

Would you like to let it be released and then nerfed so people would cry even more?

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while i understand the choice since "hey if i combo roar with xxx frame, i can make a better rhino" can render some frame to be "inferior". 

so im ok with the original having the most powerful version. just dont diminish it to the ground. idk 10% or 15% weaker? i can live with that

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1 minute ago, Jarriaga said:

I don't see how your point contradicts what I think. In fact, you still choosing another ability over Mind Control exemplifies my point. Good and bad? Sure, but I and may others believe that there are orders of magnitude of degrees of separation between what is good or bad and that the gap is so wide that the label itself exemplifies how big the gap is.

How big of a buff would Mind Control need so you choose it over Energy Munitions?

Energy Munitions is nerfed? What's next? And what would Mind Control need to be made into a viable choice over it?

The second choice was nerfed as well? What's the 3rd? And how much better is it still over Mind Control?

And so on.

And on.

And on.

Because that's how bad that ability is. As it currently stands, the rest are to be nerfed to the ground if DE insist of making it a viable choice without buffing it to a large degree.

Oh, so you're for buff weak abilities? It's not so clear for me.

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1 hour ago, [DE]Megan said:

EDIT: We have also changed the Mastery Rank Prerequisite of the Helminth Segment to 8 (was 15).

Thats an entirely unnecessary change to be perfectly honest. This game is confusing enough, new players have enough to do before Mastery Rank 15 without needing to learn another system that can permanently delete their warframes. There should be high MR locked content, and MR15 was fine.

Edited by Seadramon.
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