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The Helminth: Dev Workshop


[DE]Rebecca

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Ever since the system was announced, I wanted only one ability. I weighed it against the other abilities it was competing with on its Warframe, and managed to correctly call it before it was announced, it was announced. I was so close to getting it and now it's being nerfed. I apologize for sounding a little entitled but I'm just really bummed out.

The Ability I refer to is Protea's Dispensary, we don't have numbers but we've been informed it's getting its duration nerfed. It's the only ability from Protea's kit I actually cared about even before the system was announced.

I've asked in the past why Dispensary has a duration and isn't permanent like Wisp's Motes simply on the basis that no matter how you spin it, Protea's Dispensary will always be worse than a Trinity, that was before I knew they were going to slap it on every Warframe and before TennoCon. With it being announced it could go on any frame it makes sense that it had a timer in which case, fair's fair. But now on top of that, it's Duration is being nerfed. Why?

Even if you had 4 different players in a squad with Dispensary, or even a Trinity with Dispensary, Dispensary will always be inferior to a regular Trinity. Yeah we'd get some energy orbs, but anyone with a Zenurik school will get that much faster anyway. If anything, it might make less players rely on Zenurik diversifying's Focus school builds.

All I wanted was an Ammo Regen for any Warframe. I genuinely didn't care about any of the OP or Meta builds people had in mind.

Spoiler

This entirely sums up how I feel.

 

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Just now, (PS4)IrOrphanCrippler said:

I find that another acceptable lock is to have completed the steel path starchart

But may seem too extreme for some 

I'd say that's extreme mostly because of the pain of the Ropalolyst fight. Never bothered to get a good Operator? Guess you can't utilize Helminth. If Ropalolyst didn't exist I'd consider completing Steel Path a fair, though more difficult, lock than MR12.

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18 minutes ago, selig_fay said:

I think you're exaggerating. The problem is that good abilities are good abilities, and trash is trash. By the way, helminth has some good abilities, in case you haven't noticed. If Rhino gives 5%, I'll just take the ammo efficiency, because this thing will increase my DPS more than a measly 5%.

I don't see how your point contradicts what I think. In fact, you still choosing another ability over Mind Control exemplifies my point. Good and bad? Sure, but I and may others believe that there are orders of magnitude of degrees of separation between what is good or bad and that the gap is so wide that the label itself exemplifies how big the gap is.

How big of a buff would Mind Control need so you choose it over Energy Munitions? 

Energy Munitions is nerfed? What's next? And what would Mind Control need to be made into a viable choice over it?

The second choice was nerfed as well? What's the 3rd? And how much better is it still over Mind Control?

And so on.

And on.

And on.

Because that's how bad that ability is. As it currently stands, the rest are to be nerfed to the ground if DE insist on making it a viable choice without buffing it to a large degree.

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Just now, Sahansral said:

You misunderstood me. I‘d like to see all abilities viable and competitive. 

But some abilities are so low/bad at the moment, that I cannot fathom a way to make them competitive to things like roar.

DE would have to rebuild them from the scratch.

Well, in that case, they better get started sooner rather than later! 

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Just now, Gaz_TTV said:

dang and they  said stuff was gonna get nerfed right away.... next level  nerfs before it even  comes  out! real innovation with these new updates

Would you like to let it be released and then nerfed so people would cry even more?

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while i understand the choice since "hey if i combo roar with xxx frame, i can make a better rhino" can render some frame to be "inferior". 

so im ok with the original having the most powerful version. just dont diminish it to the ground. idk 10% or 15% weaker? i can live with that

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1 minute ago, Jarriaga said:

I don't see how your point contradicts what I think. In fact, you still choosing another ability over Mind Control exemplifies my point. Good and bad? Sure, but I and may others believe that there are orders of magnitude of degrees of separation between what is good or bad and that the gap is so wide that the label itself exemplifies how big the gap is.

How big of a buff would Mind Control need so you choose it over Energy Munitions?

Energy Munitions is nerfed? What's next? And what would Mind Control need to be made into a viable choice over it?

The second choice was nerfed as well? What's the 3rd? And how much better is it still over Mind Control?

And so on.

And on.

And on.

Because that's how bad that ability is. As it currently stands, the rest are to be nerfed to the ground if DE insist of making it a viable choice without buffing it to a large degree.

Oh, so you're for buff weak abilities? It's not so clear for me.

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1 hour ago, [DE]Megan said:

EDIT: We have also changed the Mastery Rank Prerequisite of the Helminth Segment to 8 (was 15).

Thats an entirely unnecessary change to be perfectly honest. This game is confusing enough, new players have enough to do before Mastery Rank 15 without needing to learn another system that can permanently delete their warframes. There should be high MR locked content, and MR15 was fine.

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1 minute ago, selig_fay said:

Oh, so you're for buff weak abilities? It's not so clear for me.

I think Jarriaga wants all the mediocre skills to be buffed/improved or rework to actually be a option cause you have to admit that skills like Loki's decoy or Limbo's banish is vastly inferior to something like Rhino's roar no matter how much they lower the roar.

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2 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

It was apparent in player feedback and play testing that these Infused Warframe Abilities had the potential to be the overwhelming choice; which is not ideal. Instead of changing the Ability outright due to those concerns, we decided to give them slight rules when Infused.

Wouldn't it then make more sense to buff the bad abilities like DE originally stated they would instead of nerfing the good ones?

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4 minutes ago, Voltage said:

Welcome to Warframe, where the biggest tragedy is having expectations.

I was expecting nothing more, was happy with what they had announced, then they start giving out less before the update even drops by nerfing abilities I was most excited about. Never thought that I would be disappointed in that way.

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I can comment on nidus larva range decrease specifically, nidus is my most played. With a range build, especially, larva range is ridiculous. The decrease for subsume keeps this ability among the most useful abilities in the list and maintains the og nidus as the king, because his ability is just a bit better. Gameplay wise there may be no major differences, the more important issue here is that when you'll have more than 1 larva in mission, including other pull abilities, like vauban's and khora's, the larva will just be useless either way. That is the main issue with larva here.

The issue with the post update in general is that the reasoning behind it seems out of place. They name these abilities as potentially the most popular picks, but miss on some out and nerf them not in an attempt of keeping the og frames the most relevant users of their abilities, but in an attempt to make people choose the useless abilities more likely???

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Surprised they nerfed Dispensary and Roar when used as a subsumed ability?

Be glad they didn't take them away entirely. 

With all respect, your expectations should be that anything too good will be taken away or nerfed before they are even released and maybe more later. 

Part of the point of the workshop was to get our feedback and see if anything may need nerfed or buffed before release. Or they wouldn't have bothered to show us and ask us about it. 

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