The Helminth: Dev Workshop

[Zahnny]

6 minutes ago, Voltage said:

Welcome to Warframe, where the biggest tragedy is having expectations.

I think Warframe's devs genuinely have a Megalophobia, a fear of power.

In particular, giving players anything of value. I'd make a thread to this single topic alone but knowing certain white knights I'd be shot down for wanting fun.

[selig_fay]

Just now, Jarriaga said:

It's what Reb said the plan was during her interview with Shy on August 3rd.

Yet here we are.

Well, I don't mind if good abilities lose their effectiveness a little. I think if it helps them make normal reworks of weak abilities, and still not create new OP's, I think it's a good tactic. Let's just say that I fully believe that the Trinity 1 with augment is a good competitor to the dispenser. Trinity 1 really got a good rework. Yes, this is mah for Trinity, but it is very good for most frames.

[Zahnny]

Just now, Aldain said:

reeeeeee

[Kur0Shir0]

Usually I think things goes from 0 to 100 pretty fast...

But here my hype went from 100 to 0 at the speed of light. Thank you D.E., now I don't fear to be disappointed by CyberPunk 2077 anymore.

[MoondustStar]

Here's an idea: They not only have to be MR 8 but also have the Starchart unlocked BEFORE they get to subsume the Warframes. This way, new players get the chance to gain the experience with the Warframes, learn what all of their abilities do, and THEN decide if they want to subsume a Warframe? I mean, that's how it was for me when I was getting set for some of the tougher challenges and even some of the stuff that was thrown in the newer updates as I was working my way up. Had I started around the time that the Helminth System was announced and learned it would be something ELSE to learn, I'd possibly have given up on Warframe then.

You're giving the new players a new experience to get the chance to enjoy Warframe and the new update... Don't tarnish it by tossing another system in the face yet... Because, they might not know what "Subsume" means and accidentally give up a Warframe they really enjoy not knowing it which they may have worked super hard on it and not have the Prime yet (or Umbra, in my case, for Excalibur) only to lose it because of one accidental click and be turned off of the game afterwards...

Make it where they have to have EXPERIENCE playing the game first, just like the majority of us do...

[Maj-Cero]

I can understand abilities being a "little bit" weaker than the original.

But reducing requirements down to MR8? Really??? Can you at least give some incentives to increasing your MR? 

[Voltage]

1 minute ago, Zahnny said:

I think Warframe's devs genuinely have a Megalophobia, a fear of power.

In particular, giving players anything of value. I'd make a thread to this single topic alone but knowing certain white knights I'd be shot down for wanting fun.

Nah, it's not that. They just don't learn from their previous mistakes. They are creating ability dispositions to attempt to fix their lack of understanding of in-game mechanics.

[Tesseract7777]

2 minutes ago, Zahnny said:

I think Warframe's devs genuinely have a Megalophobia, a fear of power.

In particular, giving players anything of value. I'd make a thread to this single topic alone but knowing certain white knights I'd be shot down for wanting fun.

I think pretty much all live service game devs have a phobia to an extent sort of like that (but not quite) and thus many players feel like the devs are being patronizing to them and treating them like children who don't know what's best for themselves. They are deathly afraid that if they make you too powerful you will get bored and stop playing. 

[(NSW)MoonlightSerenade]

Wake up tenno you have access to Helminth just not the resources needed.

[MagnasWill]

But will it be nerfed for Protea too or only on the Helmynth System when used on another frame?

[JollyJester00]

The diminished subsued abilities made sense, good decisions at the first glance but let's see the actual percentages in order to establish if the abilities are worth of subsuing.

With all due respect, i thought we finally found some form of reason to rank up our Mastery Rank. MR 15 was not a big MR requirement and i'm not the only one that thought it should be a bit bigger but still it was pretty well received by the majority of players. Now we are actually turning back to the "Syndicate medallions affecting Conclave" situation. Who are these people that complain about the MR cap and why do you always have to listen and to the minority of players and not the majority. There are all those content creators that endorsed the MR prerequisite, is their opinion and their follower's opinion irrelevant? Why do we even have the Content creator program at this point?

You really can't tell me that an MR 8 player is "very experienced" noone (including me when i was at that rank) knows enough about the game at that point and you want to give access to a somewhat complex system of customizing the abilities to these players. Very dissapointing, MR is back at it again close to useless if this cap goes through. 

So my suggestion would be to revert the prerequisite back to MR 15 and maybe even adding the "Complete the whole Steel Path" to it

[zurefox]

En 12/8/2020 a las 10:27, [DE]Rebecca dijo:

EDIT: We have also changed the Mastery Rank Prerequisite of the Helminth Segment to 8 (was 15).

EDIT 2:We have also changed the Mastery Rank Prerequisite of the Helminth Segment to 1 (was 8).

15 was fine, it was in the middle (0-30)

[Kaotyke]

No matter what has been done, people would feel cheated regardless.

If they didnt announce which powers would be given before the update itself? Cheated.

If they did show and it wasnt the powers people wanted? Cheated.

If they didnt tweak the powers for those who fear power creep? Cheated.

If they DID tweak the power like they did now? Cheated.

Remember: REEEEEE is the only option.

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

Well, we'll forever be in this loop of giving players the power to immerse themselves in a fantasy game (I.e. Helminth) just to later take it back in the name of "challenge, balance" (these new nerfs).

It'll always be that way until DE picks a side and becomes consistent. Meaning, forever.

In my opinion if the only way these abilities have to exist in Helminth is in a nerfed version, then I'll gladly take other abilities from their frames, untouched and for utility purposes. Pretty genius move, frankly speaking.

[Tesseract7777]

Just now, MagnasWill said:

But will it be nerfed for Protea too or only on the Helmynth System when used on another frame?

According to Rebecca's posts these abilities are only being nerfed when used as subsumed (for now). 

[Orokin]

This just shows again a fundamental misunderstanding of the game in general. I have three things to say:

1. How in the world is this supposed to make things like Loki's Decoy more appealing?

2. If the goal is to make the abilities all equally terrible instead of all equally good, what is the point of this high resource/time investment system and why would anyone use it?

3. There will always be a best option, but just because it is the best option does not mean that it is worth using

 

 

[(NSW)Lorkhan]

Good job guys! Now the veteran stuff just became a newbie stuff! Next time DONT CRY BECAUSE THINGS ARE TO HARD!

[(PSN)DoctorWho_90250]

2 minutes ago, Voltage said:

Nah, it's not that. They just don't learn from their previous mistakes. They are creating ability dispositions to attempt to fix their lack of understanding of in-game mechanics.

This, this so much.

[Amazing_Miggles]

1 hour ago, [DE]Megan said:

To offer further clarification on why we changed the Mastery Rank Prerequisite to MR 8:

There's many factors that come into play in order to engage with the Helminth system, such as:

• Having an ongoing supply of Resources that you don't need elsewhere to feed your Helminth
• Working your way up the Helminth rankings to unlock more features
• Having Warframes your ready/willing to Subsume

Looking at the above, we can see that higher rank players will be more equipped to offer these things to Helminth out the gate, where a MR 8 player will start with more accessible/cheaper Helminth Abilities first before diving deeper. Thus allowing MR 8 players to participate in Helminth and grow as they go.

Uh... I'm not sure that's how people behave in online games. Higher MR 'better equipped' players will hype about one ability or another, and now lower ranked players will follow that hype and use up their limited resource into funding something that's meant to be a long term goal in exclusion of all else such as MR progression or, god forbid, having fun and exploring, because everyone's screaming to 'get this to complete your build'. 

Kind of like a kid from lower-middle class hanging out with rich kids and financially breaking himself (or his parents') because he lost his sense of what is normal or reasonable investment for the services his friends take for granted. 

[Grey_Star_Rival_Defender]

2 minutes ago, Maj-Cero said:

I can understand abilities being a "little bit" weaker than the original.

But reducing requirements down to MR8? Really??? Can you at least give some incentives to increasing your MR? 

Ability to get through Syndicates faster. Gotta say I'm pretty bummed to learn I gotta get to R3 with SpaceMum2Syndicate to access a Helminth system I'm no longer looking forward to.

[LeaserResael]

Ohh yay... the content isn't even out and you're already nerfing stuff left and right.........

How about BUFFING and IMPROVING the least useful abilities instead? So the choice becomes a lot more difficult because everything is tempting rather than say "Oh look, a lot of mostly useless skills (seriously, who is going to pick Loki's Decoy in its current state?) I won't even bother with all this". 

Make it something worthwhile, if we have to re-farm warframes (it means 3 to 4 days of farming/waiting........) then you better make sure it brings something to the table. Which is exactly the opposite of what you're doing.

[PunJ0hn]

1 minute ago, (NSW)SongOfTheSea said:

Wake up tenno you have access to Helminth just not the resources needed.

The MR 8 players won't be able to juggle the resource sink this is advertised as along with the 80%+ rest of the weapons and frames they haven't touched and railjack.

[Ozzyman89]

1 minute ago, (NSW)SongOfTheSea said:

Wake up tenno you have access to Helminth just not the resources needed.

This right here sums up the issue with having it available at MR 8. Why give players already trying to understand all of the other content another system that they are not going to understand. "Wake up Tenno, now here is an entire laundry list of things you can do right now." No easing into it, or building up to it. just everything. right now.

[Kamachi]

Par for the course I'm afraid. At least these nerfs are happening before release so we may know what to actually expect upon release. I'm sick of enjoyable and interesting ways of playing being completely destroyed after a while because someone at DE arbitrarily decides that X should be changed or indeed no longer exist. 

[Jarriaga]

2 minutes ago, selig_fay said:

Well, I don't mind if good abilities lose their effectiveness a little.

And I don't think they will be nerfed just a little because "just a little" is still orders of magnitude above Decoy, Mind Control, Reave, Ice Wave, Spectrorage, Tempest Barrage, Banish, Terrify, Airburst, and potentially Xata’s Whisper if Void damage resistances remain what they are.

There are too many abilities that simply have no chance vs a slightly-nerfed Roar, Eclipse, Defy, Dispensary, Warcry, and Larva. If DE are not to heavily buff those abilities (Because just little buff won't cut it), then the rest will be nerfed to the ground.

Guess we'll have to wait and see, but if the reasoning behind DE's decision is how much those abilities break the game because of how good they are and the rest were not buffed to their level to make them more viable, then the only other outcome is a heavy nerf.