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No matter what has been done, people would feel cheated regardless.

If they didnt announce which powers would be given before the update itself? Cheated.

If they did show and it wasnt the powers people wanted? Cheated.

If they didnt tweak the powers for those who fear power creep? Cheated.

If they DID tweak the power like they did now? Cheated.

Remember: REEEEEE is the only option.

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Well, we'll forever be in this loop of giving players the power to immerse themselves in a fantasy game (I.e. Helminth) just to later take it back in the name of "challenge, balance" (these new nerfs).

It'll always be that way until DE picks a side and becomes consistent. Meaning, forever.

In my opinion if the only way these abilities have to exist in Helminth is in a nerfed version, then I'll gladly take other abilities from their frames, untouched and for utility purposes. Pretty genius move, frankly speaking.

Edited by (PS4)Hikuro-93
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This just shows again a fundamental misunderstanding of the game in general. I have three things to say:

1. How in the world is this supposed to make things like Loki's Decoy more appealing?

2. If the goal is to make the abilities all equally terrible instead of all equally good, what is the point of this high resource/time investment system and why would anyone use it?

3. There will always be a best option, but just because it is the best option does not mean that it is worth using

 

 

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Just now, MagnasWill said:

But will it be nerfed for Protea too or only on the Helmynth System when used on another frame?

According to Rebecca's posts these abilities are only being nerfed when used as subsumed (for now). 

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1 hour ago, [DE]Megan said:

To offer further clarification on why we changed the Mastery Rank Prerequisite to MR 8:

There's many factors that come into play in order to engage with the Helminth system, such as:

  • Having an ongoing supply of Resources that you don't need elsewhere to feed your Helminth
  • Working your way up the Helminth rankings to unlock more features
  • Having Warframes your ready/willing to Subsume

Looking at the above, we can see that higher rank players will be more equipped to offer these things to Helminth out the gate, where a MR 8 player will start with more accessible/cheaper Helminth Abilities first before diving deeper. Thus allowing MR 8 players to participate in Helminth and grow as they go.

Uh... I'm not sure that's how people behave in online games. Higher MR 'better equipped' players will hype about one ability or another, and now lower ranked players will follow that hype and use up their limited resource into funding something that's meant to be a long term goal in exclusion of all else such as MR progression or, god forbid, having fun and exploring, because everyone's screaming to 'get this to complete your build'. 

Kind of like a kid from lower-middle class hanging out with rich kids and financially breaking himself (or his parents') because he lost his sense of what is normal or reasonable investment for the services his friends take for granted. 

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2 minutes ago, Maj-Cero said:

I can understand abilities being a "little bit" weaker than the original.

But reducing requirements down to MR8? Really??? Can you at least give some incentives to increasing your MR? 

Ability to get through Syndicates faster. Gotta say I'm pretty bummed to learn I gotta get to R3 with SpaceMum2Syndicate to access a Helminth system I'm no longer looking forward to.

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Ohh yay... the content isn't even out and you're already nerfing stuff left and right.........

How about BUFFING and IMPROVING the least useful abilities instead? So the choice becomes a lot more difficult because everything is tempting rather than say "Oh look, a lot of mostly useless skills (seriously, who is going to pick Loki's Decoy in its current state?) I won't even bother with all this". 

Make it something worthwhile, if we have to re-farm warframes (it means 3 to 4 days of farming/waiting........) then you better make sure it brings something to the table. Which is exactly the opposite of what you're doing.

Edited by LeaserResael
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1 minute ago, (NSW)SongOfTheSea said:

Wake up tenno you have access to Helminth just not the resources needed.

The MR 8 players won't be able to juggle the resource sink this is advertised as along with the 80%+ rest of the weapons and frames they haven't touched and railjack.

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1 minute ago, (NSW)SongOfTheSea said:

Wake up tenno you have access to Helminth just not the resources needed.

This right here sums up the issue with having it available at MR 8. Why give players already trying to understand all of the other content another system that they are not going to understand. "Wake up Tenno, now here is an entire laundry list of things you can do right now." No easing into it, or building up to it. just everything. right now.

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Par for the course I'm afraid. At least these nerfs are happening before release so we may know what to actually expect upon release. I'm sick of enjoyable and interesting ways of playing being completely destroyed after a while because someone at DE arbitrarily decides that X should be changed or indeed no longer exist. 

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2 minutes ago, selig_fay said:

Well, I don't mind if good abilities lose their effectiveness a little.

And I don't think they will be nerfed just a little because "just a little" is still orders of magnitude above Decoy, Mind Control, Reave, Ice Wave, Spectrorage, Tempest Barrage, Banish, Terrify, Airburst, and potentially Xata’s Whisper if Void damage resistances remain what they are.

There are too many abilities that simply have no chance vs a slightly-nerfed Roar, Eclipse, Defy, Dispensary, Warcry, and Larva. If DE are not to heavily buff those abilities (Because just little buff won't cut it), then the rest will be nerfed to the ground.

Guess we'll have to wait and see, but if the reasoning behind DE's decision is how much those abilities break the game because of how good they are and the rest were not buffed to their level to make them more viable, then the only other outcome is a heavy nerf.

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Just now, -Alleluia- said:

Par for the course I'm afraid. At least these nerfs are happening before release so we may know what to actually expect upon release. I'm sick of enjoyable and interesting ways of playing being completely destroyed after a while because someone at DE arbitrarily decides that X should be changed or indeed no longer exist. 

The release now, nerf later approach because they didn't test what they released. Yeah, I find it grating as well. 

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1 minute ago, Maj-Cero said:

Can you at least give some incentives to increasing your MR? 

Annoying standing caps isn't enough of incentive? Also half of equipment in the game is literal MR fodder. Sidegrades, downgrades, reskins, archwings, useless intrinsics, useless companions, K-drives and so on.  Leeching xp with trash weapons for many hours is not a good progression system and locking content behind it is stupid.

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7 minutes ago, MoondustStar said:

Make it where they have to have EXPERIENCE playing the game first, just like the majority of us do...

Agreed. People should have to have arbitrations access because IN THEORY that will invite them to try different tings out,time to see what they want or like, rather than immediately blitz straight into breaking themselves to make meta builds.

 

Because there will always be a meta.

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10 minutes ago, Traubenzuckr said:

they did buff some of the worst offenders, we've been over that, on this very thread

minor buffs on 3 of some the worst abilities. they did not even buff some of the weakest abilities. for instance nyx mind control is still one of the worst abilities in the entire game and they refuse to touch it. garuda blood alter is now just an objectively worse version of well of life.
they sure did a whole lot. stop acting like its unreasonable to actually buff things to be on a reasonable level instead of nerfing the top end like they always do

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1 hour ago, Tempest said:

Abilities should be balanced and meaningful, but MR8 seems too low. I've seen low MR players frequently mismanage resources/time and get overwhelmed by many of the already existing systems (e.g. accidentally spawning Kuva Liches, forgetting about Focus entirely unless they fight against Eidolons).

Unlocking the Helminth this early will potentially reduce the game's clarity for these players, maybe even give them the impression that Warframe is much grindier than it actually is.

Maybe that's the intention behind lowering the MR? Give new players massive resource sinks while they don't fully understand the value of particular resources so that when it comes time to craft the new weapons/frames they get the blueprints for, they're completely broke. Having more intense resource sinks and grind early on would be a good way to pressure people into spending plat instead of farming. Most "veteran" players likely wouldn't have felt much pressure from the Helminth sink (although that's yet to be seen, I suppose.)

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11 minutes ago, Zahnny said:

I think Warframe's devs genuinely have a Megalophobia, a fear of power.

In particular, giving players anything of value. I'd make a thread to this single topic alone but knowing certain white knights I'd be shot down for wanting fun.

This game has more freedom and power than any I've ever played in my life. 

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28 minutes ago, ENGINEEEEER said:

Did you not read at all?

The numbers aren't done yet. They'll tell us when they're done. 

Then why nerf something if the numbers aren't done? 

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Look, I think you guys need to rework your communication system atr DE.

After removing Forma Umbra BP  from the game (without giving a good reliable back) or the  bUg fIX (NERF) reverted of the farming abilities, and more and more and more;

You should have understood that announcing nerfs for stuff whiuch everyone or at least most of us didn't had any problem with, always creates a huge problem. Why?

Let's pick Hellminth system, is the only system annonunced for veterans in a while and the system is not even released and you start to nerf it already, not for lower ranks, but for everyone.

Fromn my point of view it's obvious that you want to make it accessible for most of the players and try to gather more new players, but in this way you are letting down AGAIN all the veterans, if not most of them.

Why can't you just give us the system but with a enhancement system?

You have a real chance to give some value at the MR, like:
-From MR 8 to 15 Hellminth Low efficency (every shared ability will have a low value)

-From Mr 16 to 22 Hellminth Medium efficency (every shared ability will a medium value)

-From Mr 23 to 29 and onwards: Hellminth High efficency (every ability will work at original value)

Was that difficult? Try to give to new players a reason to do the MR and keep the veterans happy?

You will not retain any new or veteran players if you tell us "Lol we nerfed already every ability that you were expecting haha)

I'm  really fed up with your nerf only "ability", DE.

/rant off

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1 minute ago, Hoppyscotch said:

minor buffs on 3 of some the worst abilities. they did not even buff some of the weakest abilities. for instance nyx mind control is still one of the worst abilities in the entire game and they refuse to touch it. garuda blood alter is now just an objectively worse version of well of life.
they sure did a whole lot. stop acting like its unreasonable to actually buff things to be on a reasonable level instead of nerfing the top end like they always do

no nyx 1 is a very strong scaling ability. 

blood altar is a mobility ability cloaked in a support ability. it's actually just a teleport skill and it's very good. 

the abilities they buffed are indeed the worst abilities they picked. 

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