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The adjustments aren't gonna stop there. Get ready for many more, especially when people make youtube videos and others come blab about it on the forums lol.

Some people will just go directly to feedback to watch the world burn. 

 

 

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I'll be honest, the MR drop is wrong, you can reach MR 11 on weapons obtained via market blueprint ALONE, without even touching a new frame.  You cannot call "experienced" to someone that could easily reach over MR 11 without the need of using another warframe. And we aren't even mentioning the easy "join a clan for free researches" that pushes up this "frameless" experience even further.
If we are going to put a "experience cap" of some sorts, we should go for a "mastered/maxed frames" and not just a flat MR number, let it even be a "minimum formae'd frames", so we can validate the experimentation on the warframe abilities and synergies itself, rather than just a number that can be padded in a myriad ways that in no way expresses mastery over the warframes themselves. Let it be at least 30 maxed frames or 25 forma'd frames. which 30 is the number of the "assasination dropped" frames, plus a few extra from quests/special maps, be prime or not, that would show a minimum baseline knowledge of frames. and the MR given by this mastery alone hits your "MR8" number on warframe affinity alone
I am saying fighting over MR is moot when this new system focus on WARFRAMES mastery rather than just the whole game with MR fodder material. I'm not even saying the player should master half the roster with this, and it's even a more solid option than just use the MR, that is REALLY unreliable of how much "warframe abilities knowledge" the player has

Edited by glitchWalker
fixing some wording
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Just now, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

This game has more freedom and power than any I've ever played in my life. 

If you played after 2018 maybe. DE are completely scared of giving anything that they think "might" give power to players. It's the reason progression has been stagnant for so long. I think the only way they'll give us anymore good mods is if it's specifically designed against Sentients.

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For all intents and purposes you are now introducing ability dispositions, who makes these arbitrary decisions? 
As time goes on it just becomes ever more clear that no one with any decision making capacity at DE actually has a clue in regards to the game's meta and playerbase practices. 
You'd think after 7 years you'd have learned from previous mistakes but evidently not, the merry-go-round of ineptness continues. 

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2 minutes ago, (PS4)DoctorWho_90250 said:

The release now, nerf later approach because they didn't test what they released. Yeah, I find it grating as well. 

And yet: here we are, in a thread about feeling "cheated" about the "nerf before release".

Forums are a bunch of contradictions being thrown around and you can only watching while drinking and smoking coke.

10 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

I think pretty much all live service game devs have a phobia to an extent sort of like that (but not quite) and thus many players feel like the devs are being patronizing to them and treating them like children who don't know what's best for themselves. They are deathly afraid that if they make you too powerful you will get bored and stop playing. 

I think I heard some about "If the players could, they would optimize the fun out of the game"? Or something along those lines.

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1 minute ago, Traubenzuckr said:

no nyx 1 is a very strong scaling ability. 

blood altar is a mobility ability cloaked in a support ability. it's actually just a teleport skill and it's very good. 

the abilities they buffed are indeed the worst abilities they picked. 

you are objectively wrong.

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I agree wholeheartedly with the suggestions of picking a weaker ability and buffing it, like you did with Zephyr's Airburst or Trinity's Well of Life. After all, anything you've chosen that has a buffing augment (volt or oberon's 1's) will be very powerful options on various Warframes and builds as well, and I am vehemently opposed to having every third or fourth subsume ability come with a paragraph of warnings about how you can only replace a specific ability, and/or it'll be worse than you expect. Just choose a less OP ability ability and buff it, to make their kits more balanced overall. Things that are flat buffs will be a major temptation over most other things. As will flat DR, like Nova's Null Stars.

This is a really feel-bad nerf to these subsuming options, and doesn't fix the core issue of lots of the currently chosen abilities just blatantly having a few duds due to base abilities being really weak, and a few of them being overwhelming in their class (buffs, scaling damage, DR, CC, etc).

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I think this a bad lesson of nerfing things that are good and not looking the things that are bad. You nerf the ability that are strong but dont give us better choices to compete with these abilities. 

I'm worried that by lower the MR requirements for helmith that there is a learning curve that is expected. I think you should keep it at 15, that way any future updates to this system allow you to add more difficulty and rewarding progression  

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1 minute ago, Kaotyke said:

Forums are a bunch of contradictions being thrown around and you can only watching while drinking and smoking coke.

Or eating popcorn, don't forget the popcorn.

the joker popcorn GIF

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11 minutes ago, Sahansral said:

You misunderstood me. I‘d like to see all abilities viable and competitive. 

But some abilities are so low/bad at the moment, that I cannot fathom a way to make them competitive to things like roar.

DE would have to rebuild them from the scratch.

I agree, although personally I feel like some of the responsibility lies on the energy system.

We have well over 150 abilities of drastically different levels of power all tied to almost exactly the same level of availability. Energy cost doesn't mean the same as it used to with how freely we can regain energy. This means that most abilities have very little cost - a frame has to be extremely energy hungry to overcome Arcane Energize, Zenurik and Energy Pads.

To illustrate with a more hyperbolic example Equinox's Maim - which has hypothetically infinite damage, remember - costs as much energy as using Gauss's Mach Rush for 2.8 seconds at base amounts. Infinite damage =/= Running faster, especially not for such a short time, but according to the game's mechanics, it is. Problem is, since every ability runs on the same tank, there simply aren't many ways to reduce the availability of the big powers without the smaller powers suffering

 

A more nuanced energy system which has big powers be big and expensive whilst not affecting the smaller powers could really help those weaker powers flourish, by virtue of said weaker powers being the backbones of a frame's kit that are more or less always accessible, whilst the massive, game-changer powers serve as an ace in the hole.

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Just now, Kaotyke said:

And yet: here we are, in a thread about feeling "cheated" about the "nerf before release".

Forums are a bunch of contradictions being thrown around and you can only watching while drinking and smoking coke.

I think I heard some about "If the players could, they would optimize the fun out of the game"? Or something along those lines.

Players lulled themselves, or worked themselves up into excitement at the prospect DE would let them go all out with being overpowered like crazy. Again, best to enjoy this ride. 

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Just now, Grey_Star_Rival_Defender said:

Can someone please explain why Defy has to be nerfed on subsuming. It's just more armor.

It is just 83% damage reduction with base duration of 25s that can easily reach 50s with 200% duration and can be refreshed before expiration for EVERY warframe. With this there won't be any squishy warframe in the game.

Edited by HolySeraphin
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1 minute ago, Hoppyscotch said:

you are objectively wrong.

Any Warframe/weapon capable of burst damage would make Nyx's ability scale pretty dang well, and blood altar is a good health regen, enemy lock-down, and mobility ability. I don't think they're wrong, really.

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Just now, Zahnny said:

If you played after 2018 maybe. DE are completely scared of giving anything that they think "might" give power to players. It's the reason progression has been stagnant for so long. I think the only way they'll give us anymore good mods is if it's specifically designed against Sentients.

I get what you are saying, but I guess my question is, what do we need more power for at this point? 

I want to feel like I am progressing as well, but I want to feel like I am progressing for something. We can already pretty easily do multi-hour long runs on Steel Path with current gear. I would love for DE to not be so reluctant to make me more powerful, but right now I feel like there isn't anything for me to be more powerful for. 

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1 hour ago, Cubbage said:

If this is dead on arrival it will truly be in glorious DE fashion to show off something actually possibly worth something, and then completely screwing it and themselves in the process.

We need a Dead on Arrival dance emote, just for the occasion.

As you say this I just hear the music starts playing

Spoiler

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTJZ6dz8I-iEZ2Qdg2mv3B

 

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Just now, (PS4)DoctorWho_90250 said:

Players lulled themselves, or worked themselves up into excitement at the prospect DE would let them go all out with being overpowered like crazy. Again, best to enjoy this ride. 

Again, I don't care for powercreep abilities or metas. But at some point blame has to be taken at DE for purposefully allowing that hype to build up.

If I promise to build you a monorail and it crashes part of that blame should be on me.

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Well, people cry enough about those abilities been too powerfull, now they are neft but i think making the other abilities more powerful could help the problem of just picking something like Rhino´s roar but what do i know.

by the way, MR 8 players don´t have enough alloy plates to make the Kavat segment for the ship, now they a going to be able to use the the Helminth system? i´m not complaining about that, i´m just pointing about something stuff 

Edited by (NSW)Takami
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Just now, HolySeraphin said:

It is just 83% damage reduction with base duration of 25s that can easily reach 50s with 200% duration for EVERY warframe. With this there won't be any squishy warframe in the game.

That's a good thing considering right now I can pull up a Redirection + Primed Vigor Mesa for 90% damage reduction stacking with the 20% damage reduction of shields. With Defy I could finally play something other than "Warframe that refuses to die" on higher levels, but with the nerf... Back to same old, same old.

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