Locked out of content - "AGAIN?"

[(PSN)grayhyh]

Im mr 17 with steel path and im only 500 hours in,i didnt do much mr foddering and i stopped when i hitted 16 i dont even have mesa prime lol and never leveled up rhino on this second account honestly just level up normal variants of your primes and sentinels too,they give a lot of mr.

but yeah i guess Op is somewhat right,Mastery ranking systems wanted to be something unique and good but instead it comes off has a chore forcing you to level up trash or some more stuff to get access to stuff.

Welp mr is quite useless after 16 so unless de makes something needing mr 20 or more thus making the rest of the wf community angry i dont see it as bad,i dont even feel like subsuming my warframes tbh im quite burned out of warframe and like building some pleb frames and needing to decide who to sacrifice.. i dont think i care much about that,i will care if warframe ever decides finally to give us fresh content and i suspect that they might not give what they promised in Hearts of deimos but we will see.

[Monolake]

17 minutes ago, Cloud said:

Yes, because you can't say a weapon/frame is garbage without even trying to build it or mod it. In the better option you just saw a video and said "I don't like that" and that kind of narrowmind does not let experience you many possibilities within the game, making you, in practice, not experienced.

I don't say that you need to cap the Mastery Rank, but being lower than mr 15 sure states that you have not explored a very large part of the content available, and this could means that you potentially lack proper tools to approach in a safe way this particular content.

See this as a chance to fight your laziness and extend your horizont, there are lot of other frames and weapons out there which deserves at least to be tried, give them a chance.

Be honest, no one tries all the mr fodder weapons, most just passively max them and sell them right away because slots cost plat. Even if you use them you are not going to waste potato on every weapon to know its potential (Iv played since '13, I keep every weapon and even I dont bother maxing and using every one of them). With frames you'd at least play them and get a feel for the abilities, but not for weapons.

Mastery is just a bad system and doesn't mean you've mastered much. All the MR rushers just soak XP on popular farms and never actually *play* with those weapons, they only carry them.  Look at other games like Dota for comparison - there are lists of tasks and challenges for every hero to get your 'mastery rank' progress with them. But DE cant make anything even remotely similar and interesting (tho its really easy).

[Kaotyke]

35 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

There is an absolute ton of mastery giving content in this game. How you play for a long time and feel like MR15 is such a chore? Even if you sample only a fraction of the content getting there is pretty easy... I don't really try things I don't like, and I'm almost MR18. Do you just play one or two frames and "main them" and not try new ones? Do you not try new weapons and just stick to the same ones since forever? 

Seems like a boring gamming experience.

[emmyemi]

Not once have I attempted to grind out mastery just for the sake of it, yet here I am sitting at MR 16. While the MR requirement for Helminth is probably a bit too high, it's definitely not as big a deal as you're making it.

[SirKnum]

3 hours ago, Prostreet150 said:

"BUT" clearly for you, i am not experienced enough to participate in your new content. . .

1. What makes you think you'll play this open world more than the previous two? How do you intend to use a mechanic based around having a lot of Warframes and knowing their abilities if you have only used 16 out of 43 base Warframes?

2. What metric should DE use instead to make sure inexperienced players don't get mixed up in a mechanic that is a massive resource sink and not needed at all for any of the base content?

 

The point of this gate is not to have a skill gate, this is about a broad enough experience with different parts of the game. Just because you can play "endgame levels" with the narrow selection of setups you have doesn't mean you have the breadth of experience DE intends for players to have to use this. Your case is a fringe case not indicative of the general population of Warframe.

And from where you are in the game I'm pretty certain you have enough credits and resources to just go to the market console, click on a bunch of blueprints for weapons, throw them in the forge, start grinding them tomorrow, and be done with MR15 by the end of the week without breaking a sweat. How does this lock you out of content?

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

3 hours ago, Prostreet150 said:

Locked out of content - "AGAIN?" 

How exactly are you "locked out" of the upcoming content? 

You refusing to do the tests and advance your MR, seems to be the only limitation you are facing. It's like refusing to leave your home, and then complaining that you don't travel to exotic destinations. 

How's that making sense to you? 

[(XBOX)Shodian]

4 hours ago, Prostreet150 said:

I got over 700 hours in this game

If you have 700 hours into the game and haven't gotten to MR15 you have no one to blame but yourself. 

You have two weeks, better get crackin on it.

[Tesla_Reloaded]

I'm MR 29. But even if I was MR 1 I would be happy to see more locked content. Because this is what made me explore the game further, grind though recitative missions, gather all stuff I can. I've been sad when DE removed the need to smash the red crystal with Parazon to get access to next quest. Because it was feeling like something worth of exploring for! It was a part of gameplay. And now it's just another menu button that you can click without doing anything for it.

 

I hope to see more locked content in game. Hope to have new experiences, new adventures while going to this content, while unlocking it. I want to feel happy while looking back at what I've done to achieve new powers, new gear items. Because having access to everything right off the start is simply boring. 

[Methanoid]

2 hours ago, Berserkerkitten said:

Aw man, I remember buying the Rhino pack way back when. I think it came with a Lex and a Boar and you could actually use Rhino right away even when you didn't meet the MR requirement. That probably didn't work as intended. 😄

it was just strange this was left as MR2 for soooooo long and when rhino prime showed up it was MR0. 

[EmberStar]

4 hours ago, (PS4)Shaun-T-Wilson said:

You still need to pass the test, thats how DE can see proven skill in a controlled environment. Similar to taking exams at school, you may be an A class student but you have to prove it to employers.

The tests are mostly arbitrary nonsense, and very few even resemble mechanics you find anywhere else in the game.  The only skill being tested is the player's ability to deal with totally arbitrary nonsense.  Sort of like Standardized Testing in America - it's a really good indicator of how good you are... at taking standardized tests.  It says almost nothing about your actual knowledge or real-world problem solving skills.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

2 hours ago, Infiniko said:

Orthos Prime is crappy? Mkay.

Errrr I meant to say "old and cheap" lol. Before the weapon update at least no one seemed to touch them.

There are a lot of cheap prime weapons because the market is flooded with them.

Like I wouldn't tell him to seek out a Kronen Prime for mastery ha.

[(PSN)Shaun-T-Wilson]

13 minutes ago, EmberStar said:

The tests are mostly arbitrary nonsense, and very few even resemble mechanics you find anywhere else in the game.  The only skill being tested is the player's ability to deal with totally arbitrary nonsense.  Sort of like Standardized Testing in America - it's a really good indicator of how good you are... at taking standardized tests.  It says almost nothing about your actual knowledge or real-world problem solving skills.

true that some dont resemble in mission mechanics, some are straight forward, some use mechanic in mission and apply it differently and some test take the difficultly to the extreme. But all those points help prove you learnt and able to prove you can apply the techniques you learnt. The knowledge you built up playing the game are used to solve the test, unless you lazily looked up how on each one on youtube(getting hints is fine though).

[EmberStar]

4 hours ago, Prostreet150 said:

DE Rebecca posted this :

"Who is this for?
We consider this a customization system for very experienced Warframe players (Mastery Rank 15 Prerequisite). We do not intend to let newer players unlock this system. We intentionally placed the Segment deep into progression to ensure only experienced players could access the Segment and begin their journey with Helminth"

 

They wanted to limit the content.  The specifically DO NOT WANT new players to be throwing their starter frame into the Helminth (although I do hope they put some kind of failsafe in place to prevent it from eating someone's final Warframe.  I *know* someone is going to try it.)  They wanted a way to limit it to a fraction of the playerbase, preferably the fraction that has resources and Warframes to spare.  I would guess that they just put up a chart of the population of players at each MR level and decided that MR 15 was a big enough portion that players would see the system being used, and high enough that it would filter out most newer players.

The Helminth System is a crazy complication to throw on top of a game where people *already* complain that there are too many complicated systems that are never explained.  *And* it is designed as a pure resource sink.  They needed some way to filter most of the playerbase out.  It is NOT a system that starting players should even have to consider, and there has to be a cutoff somewhere.

I've just been going through and getting the parts for every standard Warframe to have a Level 0 to feed to the Helminth.  (I'm not giving up my starter Mag!  OnO)  There's only a handful that are difficult or super tedious to get (Wisp, Octavia, Khora, Grendel, Trinity, with a nod to Nidus and Harrow as having parts that drop from "not at all fun" modes that very few people normally play.)  If you desperately need the Mastery points to hit MR15, just *level them up* at an XP farm like Hydron before you set them aside to shove into the Helminth.  At worst you might have to trade some Prime components to get a few extra Warframe slots.  There's also a decent number of weapons you can "churn and burn," if you hate the idea of keeping anything but the most meta weapons.

[Hypernaut1]

DE is locking me out of content because I need a PC! 

DE will probably lower it to 12.

[EmberStar]

2 hours ago, Monolake said:

 Look at other games like Dota for comparison - there are lists of tasks and challenges for every hero to get your 'mastery rank' progress with them. But DE cant make anything even remotely similar and interesting (tho its really easy).

It's really easy to make a list.  It might be a little harder to actually program that into the game.  And then instead of people complaining they have to level a frame they don't like, they'd be complaining they have to "Stealth kill 500 Tusk Bombards" on a frame they *still* don't like.

[Monolake]

44 minutes ago, EmberStar said:

It's really easy to make a list.  It might be a little harder to actually program that into the game.  And then instead of people complaining they have to level a frame they don't like, they'd be complaining they have to "Stealth kill 500 Tusk Bombards" on a frame they *still* don't like.

Its all in the game already with NightWave and riven challenges and achievements - same functionality. And competent designer would make fun challenges that don't take forever or rely on RNG or locked content (like some NW tsk) but instead would help you to learn a frame or weapon. Too bad DE doesn't have those designers available so we are stuck with this bad MR system which is neither interesting nor it represents actual mastery.

[Infiniko]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

Errrr I meant to say "old and cheap" lol. Before the weapon update at least no one seemed to touch them.

There are a lot of cheap prime weapons because the market is flooded with them.

Like I wouldn't tell him to seek out a Kronen Prime for mastery ha.

Yea ok, that comment got me a bit confused for a second as Orthos P (among with many others which used to be mediocre) is really solid now and worth keeping.

[Letter13]

Considering this is geared towards players who have expendible equipment and the means to produce duplicate frames, and considering mastery rank is a pretty good indicator of how much gear (warframes & weapons) you have and how much you've used said gear, I don't see why locking this behind a mastery rank of 15 is any issue.

It's not using mastery rank as a 'skill-gate,' sure, newer players who have fewer warframes and weapons can certainly be skilled enough to run higher level content, but this customization system isn't reliant on skill. It's reliant on the player having a large arsenal (lots of Warframes) and having lots of materials (to build spare warframes), and players with lower mastery rank will rarely have either.

Moreover, if a player is too new, they may accidentally wind up sacrificing a warframe without really meaning to; they may see a weird new room and see the option to extract a skill from a warframe to customize other frames and do it hastily.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

Just now, Infiniko said:

Yea ok, that comment got me a bit confused for a second as Orthos P (among with many others which used to be mediocre) is really solid now and worth keeping.

Yea everyone has a weapon they like. I personally don't like flying around the area to do a simple weapon combo.

I personally use Fists, sparring, and tonfas.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

1 minute ago, Letter13 said:

Considering this is geared towards players who have expendible equipment and the means to produce duplicate frames, and considering mastery rank is a pretty good indicator of how much gear (warframes & weapons) you have and how much you've used said gear, I don't see why locking this behind a mastery rank of 15 is any issue.

It's not using mastery rank as a 'skill-gate,' sure, newer players who have fewer warframes and weapons can certainly be skilled enough to run higher level content, but this customization system isn't reliant on skill. It's reliant on the player having a large arsenal (lots of Warframes) and having lots of materials (to build spare warframes), and players with lower mastery rank will rarely have either.

Moreover, if a player is too new, they may accidentally wind up sacrificing a warframe without really meaning to; they may see a weird new room and see the option to extract a skill from a warframe to customize other frames and do it hastily.

Exactly. Thanks for the input.

[Infiniko]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

Yea everyone has a weapon they like. I personally don't like flying around the area to do a simple weapon combo.

I personally use Fists, sparring, and tonfas.

Have you ever tried Twirling Spire stance? I think its way more fun and varied than more popular Bleeding Willow or Shimmering Blight. If it wasn't for the Twirling Spire I wouldn't even use polearms tbh.

[kgabor]

6 hours ago, Prostreet150 said:

Why when you release new content, you force your playerbase into an never ending grind, instead of giving them enjoyment?

Because grind is what this game is all about?

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

1 minute ago, Infiniko said:

Have you ever tried Twirling Spire stance? I think its way more fun and varied than more popular Bleeding Willow or Shimmering Blight.

I think I'll go back and take a look at them for sure. The Guandao was the first weapon I used as a main but that was a year ago. 

[Wolfdoggie]

Probably want you to get used to a lot of frames' abilities as they are before editing them.

[ebrl]

Imagine trying to claim some high ground by making a point out of avoiding the major progression system in the game.

Not that it is a great or even good progression system, but it is simple enough and fits their business model without really being an issue to someone dedicated to the game - say, someone willing to put 700 hours into it. And you can't claim that there are 700 hours worth of content to play that are incompatible with progressing mastery levels.