how many abilities can be subsumed into a frame?

[Rhalick0]

can u replace every ability on a frame?

[fo3nixz]

1 ability on a frame, with 3 configs

on config 1 for example molt, config 2 breach surge, config3 shock

u cannot replace all the abilities

[Rhalick0]

5 minutes ago, fo3nixz said:

1 ability on a frame, with 3 configs

on config 1 for example molt, config 2 breach surge, config3 shock

u cannot replace all the abilities

so u can only play with 1 different ability?

[Firetempest]

 

[Rawbeard]

between 7 and 35

[(PSN)NoTrollGaming]

42 minutes ago, hackedraptor said:

so u can only play with 1 different ability?

yeah basically

[Ancient_Maykr]

On 2020-08-13 at 3:10 PM, (PSN)NoTrollGaming said:

yeah basically

and all abilities have a reduced effect, be it range or other. This sucks badly. Just wasted a ton of resources for nothing. Thanks for nothing DE. At least DE should have given Mastery XP for every helminth level. 
Disappointment is an understatement.

[SneakyErvin]

45 minutes ago, _MaJestiC_ said:

and all abilities have a reduced effect, be it range or other. This sucks badly. Just wasted a ton of resources for nothing. Thanks for nothing DE. At least DE should have given Mastery XP for every helminth level. 
Disappointment is an understatement.

All is a bit of a stretch. there are like a handful with reduced effects or a normalized effect since the frames that you infuse dont have access to the special meter or similar of the original frame. And those that get normalized effects due to having no meter benefits from it at the same time, since they dont need to juggle the meter to validate their kit. Thermal Sunder is great in a normalized state since you dont need to manage battery to keep DR up, so it doesnt matter if you use the cold or heat part since it just uses energy.

[(PSN)iuvenilis]

One per config.

So you could have Roar replace ability 1 on config A, Dispensary replace ability 1 config B, Ensare replace ability 2 on config C, for example. You can buy up to 3 more configs with plat I believe. 

What you can't do is have Roar replace ability 1 on config A, and have Roar replace ability 2 on config B (you can have Roar replace ability 1 on config A and B).

When you apply an ability, you chose which to replace, and then on which configs.

(Ugh just realised this was from August)

[(XBOX)CaligulaTwily]

One ability replaced for configuration. 

So three, at basic maximum. 

What's the maximum number of configurations? 26, for every letter of the alphabet? 

[Ancient_Maykr]

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

All is a bit of a stretch. there are like a handful with reduced effects or a normalized effect since the frames that you infuse dont have access to the special meter or similar of the original frame. And those that get normalized effects due to having no meter benefits from it at the same time, since they dont need to juggle the meter to validate their kit. Thermal Sunder is great in a normalized state since you dont need to manage battery to keep DR up, so it doesnt matter if you use the cold or heat part since it just uses energy.

Won't argue with your points there bud. 

But having thrown away all these resources to have just a diminishing return is bad practice. Imagine the disappointment of sub 20 MR folks who barely got the time to gather and build RJ and grind more, and more for resources jut to get an infused ability that has sub par behavior because the system itself is poorly thought of from the beginning.

Of course you're not gonna have the same synergy with other abilities.

But let me give you an example.

I had to grind for hours and hours for a new Nidus because I'm not gonna throw away a 6 forma main. 

Had to wait 12 hours for each part to be built

Had to wait 72 hours for the frame to be built

Feed more resources into the Helminth just to be able to get the Larva ability

Infused Larva onto my Immortal Inaros Umbral build........

just to have a reduced 8 meter radius for this ability????

Are you kidding me DE???!

So now you think I'm supposed to sacrifice other strength and umbral mods just to give him a couple of meter of radius with range mods?
Can you understand how poorly designed this is? After having passed MR30, you think I build my frames to run level 30 missions? Where's that End Game potential?

Do you see the frustration here?

[Firetempest]

Why pick a August post to dredge up. Make a feedback post in feedback if you have feedback in how you don't like it.

[Surbusken]

1 hour ago, _MaJestiC_ said:

Do you see the frustration here?

Absolutely and you are dead on.

It used to be an item didn't take more than 4 items to craft. Then they came up with the babushka grind.

What if, those 4 required something else, that required something else, that required something else, that, required something else.

Now you got frames that require you to grind out 3 entire planets with 4-6 grinds inside those grinds per planet. And it's going to get much, much worse. Ever increasing.

For the simple fact, parts of the community will 'put up with anything' aslong as there is MR in it.

With that in mind re-exmine the helminth system:

- A giant re-grind of old content

- Time and resource gates

- A backdoor out of fixing broken frames

Where instead of having to come up with 30 new frames as content, you just get people to go replay the entire game, same as steel path.

Then as you pointed out, the timegates on construction, gathering resources etc. as 'content'.

That's the reasoning right there.

As I said I don't see that ever changing, it's just going to get exponentially worse. Needing spreadsheets and having 9 different tabs open to craft a weapon, while looking for 'traps': certain items only spawn at night, are rare and 'broken' or locked behind another grind, you haven't unlocked. Then you can do 25 other spreadsheets for those grinds, that are themselves also babushka.

What it is now is, you have to play detective with even the smallest item, look up everything and know exactly what you are getting into. And then you have to decide for yourself if it's worth it.

You don't just go around playing systems including the helminth system, unprepared and half-cocked.

Have to do spreadsheets now, on every resource, timegate, hidden grinds, and well the item itself. How many runs of what, to get resources a, what is their drop rate which map is that from. On 40 different items.

For a prepared player the grind represents a living nightmare, for an unprepared player the grind is astronomical, maybe even infinite.

Imagine yourself playing random maps looking for a resource? No, you have to read up on everything. Everything.

If you feel that's wrong to have to do that, in order to 'play a video to have fun' and you aren't willing to put in the work, no one is going to blame you.

 

[SneakyErvin]

20 hours ago, _MaJestiC_ said:

Won't argue with your points there bud. 

But having thrown away all these resources to have just a diminishing return is bad practice. Imagine the disappointment of sub 20 MR folks who barely got the time to gather and build RJ and grind more, and more for resources jut to get an infused ability that has sub par behavior because the system itself is poorly thought of from the beginning.

Of course you're not gonna have the same synergy with other abilities.

But let me give you an example.

I had to grind for hours and hours for a new Nidus because I'm not gonna throw away a 6 forma main. 

Had to wait 12 hours for each part to be built

Had to wait 72 hours for the frame to be built

Feed more resources into the Helminth just to be able to get the Larva ability

Infused Larva onto my Immortal Inaros Umbral build........

just to have a reduced 8 meter radius for this ability????

Are you kidding me DE???!

So now you think I'm supposed to sacrifice other strength and umbral mods just to give him a couple of meter of radius with range mods?
Can you understand how poorly designed this is? After having passed MR30, you think I build my frames to run level 30 missions? Where's that End Game potential?

Do you see the frustration here?

Inaros is just one example and he just isnt suited for Larva.  Try it on frames that actually invest in range and the skill is even superior to Nidus' version. Just as Roar may look like a weak version of the original, but on the right frame and build it is a massive buff to damage output whenever you arent sure you'll run into a Rhino. If they had kept the skills as the original, they'd be severely overpowered on the frames that can make use of them.

And if you really want Larva on Inaros there is alot of health that can be reduced on him without much risk. It is all about knowing how high in endless you plan to go. And if Grendel can go for 2 hours in steel path survival with a pool of around 4200hp and not breaking a sweat, then Inaros should have no problems dropping down to the 7-8k area from his 10k or so pool. It is all about priorities.

[vegetosayajin]

On 2020-08-13 at 2:22 PM, fo3nixz said:

1 ability on a frame, with 3 configs

on config 1 for example molt, config 2 breach surge, config3 shock

u cannot replace all the abilities

or if you buy more configs potentially all of them on every config :D

[Chappie]

4 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Inaros is just one example and he just isnt suited for Larva.  Try it on frames that actually invest in range and the skill is even superior to Nidus' version. Just as Roar may look like a weak version of the original, but on the right frame and build it is a massive buff to damage output whenever you arent sure you'll run into a Rhino. If they had kept the skills as the original, they'd be severely overpowered on the frames that can make use of them.

And if you really want Larva on Inaros there is alot of health that can be reduced on him without much risk. It is all about knowing how high in endless you plan to go. And if Grendel can go for 2 hours in steel path survival with a pool of around 4200hp and not breaking a sweat, then Inaros should have no problems dropping down to the 7-8k area from his 10k or so pool. It is all about priorities.

And ironically ensnare is better than larva on nidus since you can ensnare your tethered target giving you a pseduo permanent larva.

[Ancient_Maykr]

32 minutes ago, Chappie said:

And ironically ensnare is better than larva on nidus since you can ensnare your tethered target giving you a pseduo permanent larva.

You both missed the point of the discussion. Feel free to read it again.

[SneakyErvin]

49 minutes ago, _MaJestiC_ said:

You both missed the point of the discussion. Feel free to read it again.

I'm not sure what the discussion was aside from complaining about one very specific setup while there are several that are immensly stronger. All I can say is Loki+Larva = total enemy lockdown and round up.

1 hour ago, Chappie said:

And ironically ensnare is better than larva on nidus since you can ensnare your tethered target giving you a pseduo permanent larva.

I need to give that a try because that seems really interesting and hilarious.

[Chappie]

4 hours ago, _MaJestiC_ said:

You both missed the point of the discussion. Feel free to read it again.

I know I did...but I don't care.  Welcome to the internet.    If you want your own forums on warframe..go start them.

[XRosenkreuz]

On 2020-12-09 at 6:15 AM, _MaJestiC_ said:

and all abilities have a reduced effect, be it range or other.

Well that's just flat wrong. The only abilites that have reduced effects- and no, I'm not counting ones that can't synergize because what they synergize with isn't present- are Fire Blast, Eclipse, Larva, Dispensary, Roar, Warcry, and Defy.

[BDMblue]

With frames like Nidus or any not primed frame I’m happy to wait for the prime before it gets eaten. Unless I don’t like it then this system s better then just deleting it. At lest I get something now. Its not perfect but I do like some of what it offers.

I do though hate weapons that require other weapons that require other weapons. It’s the kind of item I #*!%ed up building more than once.  I just gave up on it at this point.

[SneakyErvin]

3 hours ago, XRosenkreuz said:

Well that's just flat wrong. The only abilites that have reduced effects- and no, I'm not counting ones that can't synergize because what they synergize with isn't present- are Fire Blast, Eclipse, Larva, Dispensary, Roar, Warcry, and Defy.

Fire Blast is actually not reduced, it just doesnt have access to the heat meter synergy, so is capped at the equal of 75% heat.

[XRosenkreuz]

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Fire Blast is actually not reduced, it just doesnt have access to the heat meter synergy, so is capped at the equal of 75% heat.

o i c

I didn't realize the armor reduction was tied to the heat meter, as well.

[SneakyErvin]

2 hours ago, XRosenkreuz said:

o i c

I didn't realize the armor reduction was tied to the heat meter, as well.

Yeah, it is what makes both Fire Blast and Thermal Sunder so good as subsumes, because you dont need to wiggle the extra synergy, you just get the benefit straight up to a lesser extent. Though in Thermal Sunder's case we dont get access to the armor strip part, since it is tied to redline's overcharged battery capacity. But we can kill without worry with both heat, cold and the blast since we dont need to manage a battery level that other skills rely on in order to get to peak performance.

Sidenote: Thermal Sunder is a wicked option on any frame that invests a bit in range and strength and need a AoE skill. Fantastic on Vauban as a move-and-nuke option to replace his #1.