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Valkyr is going to become irrelevant


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Just now, GREF_TM said:

No-brainer, replace his 4, it's terrible.

If only we could replace our 4th skill. I'm pretty sure we can't so out of the 3 wukong skills, I'd rather keep all 3.

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6 minutes ago, Ender140 said:

If only we could replace our 4th skill. I'm pretty sure we can't so out of the 3 wukong skills, I'd rather keep all 3.

I think you can replace any slot you want, in demo it was this way at least, and there's nothing about any such restrictions in the workshop post. Which means it's time to finally put iron staff down for good.

  

On 2020-08-16 at 4:23 AM, kgabor said:

Speaking of 95% dr-s, that's exactly what Valkyr needs in Hysteria.

And a second passive giving Rage/Hunter Adrenaline as an innate effect.

Here, Valkyr is relevant again.

I kinda fail to see how this will make valkyr a relevant melee/exalted frame when i already can press 4 with baruuk and clear everything within the 20 meter range from me in one, maybe two block combos.

Edited by GREF_TM
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13 hours ago, Ender140 said:

I do indurance runs... thats why I know you won't be using frames like loki now are ya? What? You going to put warcry on Hydroid? On Khora? Where is your point in endurance runs? Yes melee is the only viable weapon there. Guess what? That still doesn't invalidate my point. Cuz you are still likely to use a melee specialised frame in an endurance run if you are going to use warcry. Like what exactly are you trying to point out here?

Now as Warcry being her signature ability. So is Radial Blind for Excalibur. You thought it's exalted blade? No thats just his flashiest skill. His handiest skill is his blind. Guess what? You can give that to any other frame now. I mean unless you want Excalibur to give his slash dash or his radial javelins because radial blind is really his only good skill at this point after melee rework. Now that everyone can have his blind which is way handier than warcry because 1, it's a cc, 2 it has melee damage multiplier, and 3- it opens up to finishers. You want an overkill of a damage? Add radiant finish. Which allows you to one hit most enemies that can be blinded.

Does this mean Excalibur will no longer be used? Well yea... I mean his not on the best spot either. The only reason people are still using him is because his a starter frame. And yet his still giving away the one skill that makes him special. His stats aren't even that great. His the OG melee frame yet his durability is in the meh side. So what excuse does that give Valkyr?

Unlike warcry, Blind is a more diverse skill. Which almost any warframe can use other than frames that specialises on cc. Give it to chroma. Give it to Rhino. Give it to Volt. Give it to Mesa. And they'll be able to use it. Since it's primarily a cc. And one of the best kind of cc, which is blind cc. There is also the melee bonus damage. Which essentially mean it can also do warcry's niche as a melee dps skill.

I'm convinced you don't read before you comment. Or at least you haven't noticed that Valkyr isn't the only one giving skills. Rhino is giving roar. ROAR. Which just beats warcry and blind's damage bonus. This also affects your guns. And again unlike warcry; YOU CAN GIVE TO ANY FRAME AND IT'LL BE USEFUL. DEFY. Squishy before? Squishy no more- because you get a flat out 1.5k armor. Which again; ANY FRAME CAN USE. Even Volt or Loki. Warcry is a niche skill. Like a very specific niche of melee specific frames will benefit more from warcry than other skills.

AND AGAIN. SHE NEEDS A REWORK. Because like Excalibur; she only has 1 useful skill. Her claws are just as powerful as Exalted Blade. I know because I mostly only use Excalibur. I've shifted to Valkyr after melee 3.0 because CO, Life Strike. 2 mods that are basically glued to exalted blade got nerfed. And unlike Valkyr, Excalibur doesn't have the stats to back up his reason to still be used. YET HIS STILL GIVING AWAY HIS RADIAL BLIND. Am I against that? ALSO NO. IT'S MUCH BETTER THAN GETTING SLASH DASH OR RADIAL JAVELIN.

Other than "Valkry needs a rework" you clearly don't have any idea about what you are saying. And now I am truly convinced that you are not doing endurance runs. First of all you can do endurance with everyframe if you know the what to do , you can even do it with hydroid or banshee or even mag . If you will remove the puddle from hydroid and put warcry on hydroid you have all you need , for mag remove the 4th ability and now you have way better mag for endurance runs you can do same for banshee too. If you are doing survival endurance you need to kill more and faster to get enough life support cause game can only create limited amount of enemies if you do not kill what is already alive ones. So atack speed ability with infinite duration is a prety good advancement for many frames.

Besides from that radial blind has never been excalibur's signature ability , since the begining slash and dash (even in old cinematics) is his signature ability . No body is using cc finisher builds unless they are doing focus farm daily cap (and only new players are doing that cause eidolons are the best focus farm method ) . In higher levels finishers are totally useless especially after removing of the one shot dagger builds , you only make dent on their uniform with a finisher in high level missions . So your argument about finisher builds is completely invalid . But on the other hand Valkyr has a desing for berserker (mostly weapon x version of wolverine) and defined by warcry she is the only warframe with a voice until umbra came up with same berserk attitude. But excalibur has  defined by his blade, did you realy belived reflecting a light from a blade can thought for a developer for a signature move for warframe desinged for blade.

But I am agreed with you on Valkry needs a rework 

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I don't have any strength in my Valkyr build. She's all duration, toughness, and Eternal war. So, I wouldn't put Roar in there.

Might replace her 3 with Radial Blind, or Khora's Binding thing. I was also playing around with an unranked Mag tonight, and her Pull would be interesting for a melee build to knock everyone down. Then again, weaker than something like Radial Blind. Or Silence maybe. Something to control swarms better than stupid Paralysis.

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1 hour ago, Ender140 said:

Attack speed is fun, but damage is damage. One block attack from gram can one hit even steel path enemies. With something like roar, ANY hit from the gram will one hit an enemy. Yes you can remove berserker from gram and use warcry instead. Then again you used a skill slot and energy. If your using it on a frame like loki then you only get the benefit of the attack speed. If your using the augment then that's one mod space used. Either way, you lose more things than you gain.

The only real way to actually benefit from warcry is by using a dedicated melee frame. Again, augments take a mod slot; if using it is worth the space is up to the person.

Also if you want attack speed without the berserker, try arcane strike. Like what other arcanes are there worth using if your only using melee. Arcane guardian? Maybe grace? 

Also there is a problem with mostly having attack speed. Which are eximus. Yes you can stack viral on them if you want, then again, you can also just down right kill them instantly.

Warcry's benefit on a dedicated melee frame isn't just from status, but also healing return. And to make the most of healing return, you'll need more attack speed and less damage. Which blue balled Excalibur. But to make use of healing return you need to be a bit durable. Using Warcry to be replicate a melee niche on a squishy frame is inefficient. They gain nothing from it but attack speed, and they sacrificed their utility skill. Yes on some frames there would a useless skill in their arsenal- but that mostly happens on more durable warframes. Squishing warframes will most likely have their signature skill, a cc, and a utility skill, and a survival tool. Which skill will you replace for warcry?

Just to make that question easier. What squishy warframe will you put warcry on and what skill will you replace?

Who said you're only using melee with War Cry? You got a lot of energy to work with, you can cast Eternal War and it can last for the rest of the mission.

As for which frame i would put that on? Augmented Rest Equinox comes to mind, great cc, you can afford back finishers with f.ex. Destreza Prime and you will one hit kill pretty much anything.

Arcane Energize and maybe Blade Charger to replace the need for Rhino's Roar if there ever was any, easy headshots with a sniper rifle on enemies affected by Rest, self sustainable, minimal energy use, i can even add Sharpshooter to my sniper for even more energy and maybe even have Peaceful Provocation Pacify activated. (unneeded, but even safer that way)

 

Edited by kgabor
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50 minutes ago, GREF_TM said:

I kinda fail to see how this will make valkyr a relevant melee/exalted frame when i already can press 4 with baruuk and clear everything within the 20 meter range from me in one, maybe two block combos.

It would, along with my other suggestions in this thread, sure Valkyr's Talons need some tweaking but it already works as is with spin attacks, unless it was changed.

Baruuk's 4. is just broken, really.

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hace 13 horas, (XB1)MetalxPhoenix dijo:

 

In this I agree too. Even tho it's obviously a good (maybe the best) ability to have, I would understand getting it removed. And worst of all is that where Rhino is used, he will probably find that all the other frames already have his ability. Imo, Rhinocharge should have been the one to be given out instead, but they probably thought it was signature due to it being named Rhinocharge, even tho Gauss does a very similar thing.

If it at least was more like Mirage's Eclipse it would make people ponder if they can make full use of it, but giving a flat damage increase is just calling for everyone to equip it, like a Warframe version of Hornet Strike, and as you said that's the only real use he sees on Eidolon hunts f.e. At least Oberon is also able to get rid of magnetic procs and help heal the lures.

 

hace 5 horas, Aadi880 dijo:

 

You may have noticed, but your comment is basically what Ender has been saying for 2 pages now. We are aware she can also fit an ability from other frames. She will become able to be used on a wider variety of missions on which the actual meta frame will almost surely see more use (even tho she will be able to fit Lull / Roar, will she truly be more useful than a Nova with Lull to CC / Volt with Roar for Eidolons?). But the point of the thread is: She shines because she's tanky, heals, and allows to remove Fury / Berserker from the melee weapon. Give Adaptation to any frame that can make use of it, if you truly need it get one of the many ways of healing we have at our reach, and change their worst ability with WC. Almost always they will have something else that's more valuable than Valkyr with increased damage / mobility. I have already given some examples with Saryn and Excalibur, but there are way many more frames that can also do this, like Equinox or even Mag if one so pleases.

And not to invalidate your opinion, but I have seen a fair amount of comments that are about how they will just "kick Valkyr out of the Orbiter" the moment WC is available to everyone. 

If your opinion comes true it's better for me at least at the end of the day, given it should mean she hasn't become totally obsolete, but things are not looking very good right now.

hace 5 horas, Ender140 dijo:

 

I understand a topic much have it's branches, but not in any moment has this thread been about in which frames would WC be good, nor if Roar / RB is (almost objectively, it seems) better than WC, nor anything other than Valkyr being robbed of the only thing she has going for her with the current system. You have already been given several examples of why, by me and other people, and even if they don't convince you, other people have provided reasons why WC should be taken out of the system due to "signature" abilities not being given out. You argued then it would be worse (which even tho it would be true, it would also violate the fundamental rule), and I proposed a way to make it even more diverse without much downsides (if any at all) while still getting WC out, which I don't even know if you read.

You treat Valkyr giving WC as a "minor sacrifice", but then imagine the state in which the frame is that a thing so small as that will very likely turn her into wall fodder (that you seem to be aware of, as you consider a rework acceptable). And still, in such state she is, according to you being able to equip an ability that enhaces a playstyle now achievable by everyone or that opens a playstyle the frame she gets it from probably already does better and will be able to boost will save her.

Not trying to force my opinion, but really I think this has devolved into a circular argument of perpetual denial, in which you defend the idea of Valkyr still having uses (which of course she will, as so did pre rework Vauban), but don't so quite defend the idea of Valkyr not being totally left in the dust once the update drops. And I would be all in for it, given as I told Aadi it would mean there's still something she still has, but all I'm getting is "not everyone will use WC, RB / Roar will be better for most".

Just to make the question easier, why would I use Valkyr with (assuming a decent full PD / PS build, EW) a 167.5% increase in damage, when I could also have a Chroma with the same boost, EW, a 670% health boost, 1340% armor boost (11k EHP vs 34.8k from Chroma), and a 921.5% base damage boost, using the same build (have in mind all his buffs could be applied to allies, and the aura from Elemental Ward would be constantly applied to enemies, in this case the heat one). Or a Excalibur with 49% less AS, equally able to take a hit, and a 800% increase in damage + hard CC. And depending on which ability you choosed to replace, you could still have either a gap closer that allows to tank the Profitaker's explosion or another melee damage boost.

 

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1 hour ago, (PS4)HynvictSanngRa said:

In this I agree too. Even tho it's obviously a good (maybe the best) ability to have, I would understand getting it removed. And worst of all is that where Rhino is used, he will probably find that all the other frames already have his ability. Imo, Rhinocharge should have been the one to be given out instead, but they probably thought it was signature due to it being named Rhinocharge, even tho Gauss does a very similar thing.

Yeah, it needs to get changed. Charge should have been the one. And Ripline respectively.

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On 2020-08-14 at 10:14 AM, Terrahero said:

Okay, so you sit at 5500 armor. That is 94.83% damage reduction.

Meanwhile Mesa puts Intensify on her load out and caps at 95% damage reduction, atleast against projectiles which is most sources of damage. Eclipse + intensify = 95% damage reduction from all sources when in low light.

Don't forget the 20% damage reduction applied to shields. Shatter Shield + Redirection + Primed Vigor is one heck of a thing.

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it's an uninteresting warframe ... it's on the list of the most irrelevant warframes like harrow, nyx, banshee .... what they have in common are skills that don't give us pleasure or fun when used.

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18 minutes ago, Luciole77 said:

it's an uninteresting warframe ... it's on the list of the most irrelevant warframes like harrow, nyx, banshee .... what they have in common are skills that don't give us pleasure or fun when used.

The truth is that  they have some of the best abilities but  you don't have any occasion to use them.

I mean Why should you use nyx 2 when you can kill everything with your melee even at level 9999?

Or why should banshee use his  sonar when you can kill everything with your melee at level 9999?

Same for harrow and many other low tier frames.

It's not hard to create specific missions to make these frames shine but it's faster and easier to give cheap abilities to every frame and just continue to press E.

Valkyr at the current state :

1)is not tanky enough to compete with inaros or revenant.

2)It has a ridiculous first ability.

3)her exalted is decent but too risky but anyway a joke compared to other normal melee with blood rush around and rivens .

the only good ability is warcry that  will be fused in other better frames till she will be totally retired from the game.

 

Edited by bibmobello
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1 hour ago, Luciole77 said:

it's an uninteresting warframe ... it's on the list of the most irrelevant warframes like harrow, nyx, banshee .... what they have in common are skills that don't give us pleasure or fun when used.

Funnily enough, these are some of my favorite frames.

Maybe not Nyx at this point, the lack of that disarm passive still hurts to this day, but at least i can replace the now defunct Psychic Bolts on my range Nyx with something useful with the Helminth system, Pull should be an useful cc tool to complement Chaos.

Banshee and Harrow just needs some good modding, really and Nyx was generally used by the majority of the playerbase as an Absorb nuke bot, which is why those horrible tweaks even happened.

so-this-is-how-liberty-dies-with-thunder

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Y'all are playing Valkyr the wrong way. She's not a team buff 'frame, nor an AoE nuker, she's a hardcore solo enemy killer whose second-to-second mechanics you either love or don't. I do. I adore blenderizing my way through the hordes at the speed of sound for two hours solo in Steel Path Mot, not needing to use any gear items or specters or god forbid needing to rely on teammates, loving the sound of her claws slicing flesh, never dying, hardly taking damage, never losing energy because I've got Energize, maximum efficiency, and maximum energy on me. I like spamming slide, but if you don't, you should probably not play Valkyr. She's not meta cheese, she's just fun as is. Stop trying to say she's dead because now everyone can share in the Warcry goodness; her real appeal comes from combining Warcry with Hysteria anyway.

On 2020-08-14 at 10:46 PM, (XB1)Orcus Imperium said:

I won't argue about ripline but i do use it to "attempt" to catch up to my brother from time to time, since it's a cheap power.

on paralysis. with max range and duration with it's aug, you can have a group of enemies on the floor at your feet for a good while. you can then use ground finishers and kill all of them before they even get back up. but it's not a perfect method.

warcry is warcry.

 

Hysteria is a bit....underappreciated for what it's potential is.

with a hysteria focused build alongside survival(adaptation, steel fiber, vitality, flow, both efficiency mods, umbral intensify and rage. and then use her hysterical assault augment for a free 50m teleport.) and her talons built for raw crit and the 60/60 mods(viral) she can easily mow down anything of at least 140 with little trouble. this means she can more than handle star chart mission and sorties no problem. throw in arcane energize and guardian/aegis/grace and she'll always have energy to spare as well as good armor for extra protection. the key with this setup is to bounce in and out(just switch to your primary, don't deactivate her 4.) of hysteria so that rage refills your energy when you get low(energize for sustaining energy while in hysteria.) and let adaptation be your fall back.

 

energize will basically mean that disruptors are her primary threat(other than the usual enemies that straight up cancel your powers, but thats not exclusive to her, so it's irrelevant)

 

now, is this perfect? hardly, and you bet your Vay hek loving tush that i can easily do better with any other frame(speaking of baruuk.) but this setup makes hysteria powerful and more importantly....USEABLE without it needing some godly buff to make it good. Range being a problem? hysterical assault is a free 50m teleport while in hysteria...i can't FATHOM why anyone wants to replace ripline with this because then it'll cost energy.

pretty much any star chart enemy and sortie enemy is eaten alive by this(since range is no longer an issue.) and any target that doesn't die in seconds can be killed using whatever primary you have(i like sybaris prime.)

 

Now is hysteria outright strong? HEK NO! I love this frame to pieces and back again but i know darn well that hysteria is outclassed by all the other channeled melee AND pretty much every other melee....BUT. BUT! the changes to status procs(viral especially) really helped make hysteria have something(even though i didn't even change my build once those changes dropped.) Hysteria isn't useless. it's moderately good.

it's just that people need to stop using level 200 enemies as a benchmark test to state whether a weapon is good or not, since until Steel path, that level of enemy required a good hour or two in endless missions to actually get to. notably when a good majority aren't going to run an endless mission that long every time they can. I sure don't( I will from time to time, but that's when i just want to just go and play a mindless session before doing something else AND when i literally have nothing else to do.)

If you use an eternal Hysteria/high efficiency build plus a decent standard crit/Primed Fever Strike claws build, you can easily solo shred up to at least level 500 without a sweat on the normal star chart, and at least level 300 in Steel Path (didn't bother to go further in either case; she can probably go further). I recently forma'd her to add high duration Eternal War on the eternal Hysteria build so that would probably take her even further - I did not use Warcry at all in either of the cases mentioned above, solely Hysteria and her talons (no elemental status priming or CO either).

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20 hours ago, Orakan said:

Other than "Valkry needs a rework" you clearly don't have any idea about what you are saying. And now I am truly convinced that you are not doing endurance runs. First of all you can do endurance with everyframe if you know the what to do , you can even do it with hydroid or banshee or even mag . If you will remove the puddle from hydroid and put warcry on hydroid you have all you need , for mag remove the 4th ability and now you have way better mag for endurance runs you can do same for banshee too. If you are doing survival endurance you need to kill more and faster to get enough life support cause game can only create limited amount of enemies if you do not kill what is already alive ones. So atack speed ability with infinite duration is a prety good advancement for many frames.

Besides from that radial blind has never been excalibur's signature ability , since the begining slash and dash (even in old cinematics) is his signature ability . No body is using cc finisher builds unless they are doing focus farm daily cap (and only new players are doing that cause eidolons are the best focus farm method ) . In higher levels finishers are totally useless especially after removing of the one shot dagger builds , you only make dent on their uniform with a finisher in high level missions . So your argument about finisher builds is completely invalid . But on the other hand Valkyr has a desing for berserker (mostly weapon x version of wolverine) and defined by warcry she is the only warframe with a voice until umbra came up with same berserk attitude. But excalibur has  defined by his blade, did you realy belived reflecting a light from a blade can thought for a developer for a signature move for warframe desinged for blade.

But I am agreed with you on Valkry needs a rework 

What endurance node is this? Every frame? I MEAN YOU CAN, yes. But that was really only a thing to "challenge" players. I mean yea I could just bring about any warframe on regular mot and I will still probably not have that hard of a time. Bring your fulmin if you want. Regular nodes isn't hard. What will warcry change there? Specifically if you warframe is squishy. If your using a deicated melee frame anyways then that doesn't really affect any of my points now does it?

What is your definition of "Endurance runs" because unless it's Steel Path, you could use Volt and do whatever niche your trying to replicate with warcry. Yes melee is good, very good. I don't really use guns that much either.

Now radial blind. Wait slash dash? Are you high? If Slash Dash is Excalibur's signature move, why is warcry Valkyr's signature move? How do you define your Endurance Runs and Signature Moves? Where is your logic here? When was Slash Dash ever his signature move. Why and how will Slash Dash be his MOST defining skill? Exalted Blade couldn't be his signature skill because it's isn't as useful as radial blind. Now Finishers being useless. I AGREE. However you might have not known this but. YOU DON'T NEED TO DO FINISHER TO GET MELEE BONUS FROM RADIAL BLIND. Blind them, use Exalted Blade for bigger room clearing, or use regular melee for higher DPS. You still get melee bonus. Thats on top of cc. Like I said it's primarily a cc. But it's a dps boost too. I'm guessing you don't play Excalibur. Slash Dash offers nothing but mobility. Slash Dash was only shown once in the Cinematic. If you give radial blind to every melee warframe they get access to stealth multiplier, which is different from finisher. Which if I remember correctly, is a 700% damage multiplier. Excalibur is giving THAT away.

Edited by Ender140
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19 hours ago, kgabor said:

Who said you're only using melee with War Cry? You got a lot of energy to work with, you can cast Eternal War and it can last for the rest of the mission.

As for which frame i would put that on? Augmented Rest Equinox comes to mind, great cc, you can afford back finishers with f.ex. Destreza Prime and you will one hit kill pretty much anything.

Arcane Energize and maybe Blade Charger to replace the need for Rhino's Roar if there ever was any, easy headshots with a sniper rifle on enemies affected by Rest, self sustainable, minimal energy use, i can even add Sharpshooter to my sniper for even more energy and maybe even have Peaceful Provocation Pacify activated. (unneeded, but even safer that way)

 

Ok but why? First of let's start with the augment. Your willing to place another augment on top of eternal war? Keep in mind that you need eternal war to keep warcry rolling without the need to recast it. And just to do faster finishers your willing to change one of your utility skills? You will replace one of Equinox's skills... Just to do faster finishers? Again, WHY?!

Now replacing roar with head shots and sleep... I mean yea you can. But it's equinox. She already has her own damage buffing skill... where is your space for roar? That's like replacing chroma's vex armor. YOU CAN, BUT WHY? Equinox can use both guns and melee. Shes isn't even that limited by a niche. Like a jack of all trades. She can replicate most niche other than attack speed. She even has damage reduction. So another, WHY?!

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After I finished reading the comments here it seems like some of you guys really wanted to give away ripline instead of warcry. And charge instead of roar... I don't know what to say to that. What are the only usefull skill going to be coming from Jack of all trades that every skill they give is useful like from wukong? If that's the logic you guys are doing then let's not give away radial blind. Let's give slash dash too which is basically a different version of ripline. Lets not give away Hildryn's pillage. Now THAT is a signature ability. Lets just not give away ANY usefull abilities. Lets just give away their most useless and worthless abilities.

Lets NOT give the helminth system the satisfaction of replacing 1 useless skill with a usefull skill. LETS ONLY GIVE AWAY MEDIOCRE TO ABSOLUTELY USELESS ABILITIES. Yes like soul punch, VERY NICE. Lets just only give SOUL PUNCH to every warframe. Anybody want Chroma's puke instead of elemental ward? I mean that skil is basically glued with vex armor to the point that those skills should've just been fused. It's also one of his signature skills. So let's give away his elemental puke instead of elemental ward.

Edited by Ender140
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17 minutes ago, Ender140 said:

Ok but why? First of let's start with the augment. Your willing to place another augment on top of eternal war? Keep in mind that you need eternal war to keep warcry rolling without the need to recast it. And just to do faster finishers your willing to change one of your utility skills? You will replace one of Equinox's skills... Just to do faster finishers? Again, WHY?!

Now replacing roar with head shots and sleep... I mean yea you can. But it's equinox. She already has her own damage buffing skill... where is your space for roar? That's like replacing chroma's vex armor. YOU CAN, BUT WHY? Equinox can use both guns and melee. Shes isn't even that limited by a niche. Like a jack of all trades. She can replicate most niche other than attack speed. She even has damage reduction. So another, WHY?!

Rest Equinox is not that mod heavy, you need a lot of range, some duration, maybe an EHP mod or Streamline depending on preference.

I can fit two or three augments in that build if i minmax for it, but i did some testing in Steel Path since my reply and didn't find Pacify worth using for its energy drain, also my Vectis didn't do as much damage as i expected, but my melee performed incredibly well, might switch to Arcane Primary Charger instead, should be a good substitute for Roar that doesn't require energy once i finish my Arbi farms for a full set.

I don't use Equinox's day form and switching between forms is contradictory to how Equinox plays (and to my build), so for me, Metamorphosys is replaceable.

With that build, i can have a top tier self sustaining spammable cc, damage increase with the arcane without any energy cost, can facetank with Arcane Ultimatum or get energy with Arcane Energize, can still heal teammates with Mend after one sniper shot or melee hit and if i put Eternal War there, increase the combo count and Viral proc count even further.

I used Arcane Primary Charger with Arcane Melee Charger on Banshee and that also worked well for a hybrid playstyle, it was against Infested though, so that doesn't say a lot, but still melted enemies with Ancient Healer auras, i will do some further testing with that sometime.

Banshee can also use another ability in place of Sound Quake, but i'm planning to go with 'Marked for Death' in that case.

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50 minutes ago, Ender140 said:

After I finished reading the comments here it seems like some of you guys really wanted to give away ripline instead of warcry. And charge instead of roar... I don't know what to say to that. What are the only usefull skill going to be coming from Jack of all trades that every skill they give is useful like from wukong? If that's the logic you guys are doing then let's not give away radial blind. Let's give slash dash too which is basically a different version of ripline. Lets not give away Hildryn's pillage. Now THAT is a signature ability. Lets just not give away ANY usefull abilities. Lets just give away their most useless and worthless abilities.

Lets NOT give the helminth system the satisfaction of replacing 1 useless skill with a usefull skill. LETS ONLY GIVE AWAY MEDIOCRE TO ABSOLUTELY USELESS ABILITIES. Yes like soul punch, VERY NICE. Lets just only give SOUL PUNCH to every warframe. Anybody want Chroma's puke instead of elemental ward? I mean that skil is basically glued with vex armor to the point that those skills should've just been fused. It's also one of his signature skills. So let's give away his elemental puke instead of elemental ward.

People are not intent on making sure Helminth only has terrible abilities. There is a reason though why we don't get Desecrate or Snowglobe though, and that reason is why many here don't want Warcry be donated. If you actually read the comments here you'll have run into the reason why in more detail several times.

You're instead deliberately strawmanning the argument. Presenting it as if people who complain about Warcry are really just intent on seeing the Helminth system suck.

How would you like it if i represented your argument as; You just want Valkyr to be redundant and everyone to stop playing her. Not very nice is it?

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3 minutes ago, Terrahero said:

People are not intent on making sure Helminth only has terrible abilities. There is a reason though why we don't get Desecrate or Snowglobe though, and that reason is why many here don't want Warcry be donated. If you actually read the comments here you'll have run into the reason why in more detail several times.

You're instead deliberately strawmanning the argument. Presenting it as if people who complain about Warcry are really just intent on seeing the Helminth system suck.

How would you like it if i represented your argument as; You just want Valkyr to be redundant and everyone to stop playing her. Not very nice is it?

It can't be a want if she already is. It can't be stopped if it's stopped already. She has 1 mobility skill that's bein hindered by it's "cc" mechanic. A survival tool, a useless 3 and another survival tool. In a game where Wukong and Inaros exist. She IS REDUNDANT. They already STOPPED using her. SHE HAS 1 USEFULL SKILL. Donate anything else and you might as well not donate any of her skills just like how nobody will use soul punch. Did you think not giving warcry will make her anymore popular? No, there are better tanks in the game. The only thing that's being prevented here is having a usefull skill added to the system.

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Nekros's augmented Soul Punch would be actually pretty good on a designated healer frame, like Trinity.

Even if your teammate dies, you can instantly revive them with no effort.

It would be optimal for those rare pug long runs, Wisp could use that too.

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23 minutes ago, kgabor said:

Rest Equinox is not that mod heavy, you need a lot of range, some duration, maybe an EHP mod or Streamline depending on preference.

I can fit two or three augments in that build if i minmax for it, but i did some testing in Steel Path since my reply and didn't find Pacify worth using for its energy drain, also my Vectis didn't do as much damage as i expected, but my melee performed incredibly well, might switch to Arcane Primary Charger instead, should be a good substitute for Roar that doesn't require energy once i finish my Arbi farms for a full set.

I don't use Equinox's day form and switching between forms is contradictory to how Equinox plays (and to my build), so for me, Metamorphosys is replaceable.

With that build, i can have a top tier self sustaining spammable cc, damage increase with the arcane without any energy cost, can facetank with Arcane Ultimatum or get energy with Arcane Energize, can still heal teammates with Mend after one sniper shot or melee hit and if i put Eternal War there, increase the combo count and Viral proc count even further.

I used Arcane Primary Charger with Arcane Melee Charger on Banshee and that also worked well for a hybrid playstyle, it was against Infested though, so that doesn't say a lot, but still melted enemies with Ancient Healer auras, i will do some further testing with that sometime.

Banshee can also use another ability in place of Sound Quake, but i'm planning to go with 'Marked for Death' in that case.

Ok so your replacing durability, damage boost and speed for attack speed? On Equinox?

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1 hour ago, Ender140 said:

Ok so your replacing durability, damage boost and speed for attack speed? On Equinox?

Nope, i'm replacing nothing for attack speed as i don't use day form anyways.

I don't like most of its abilities and its looks and it saves time and energy to opt not to switch forms and use those abilities.

Not that i would have much use of them or need them anyways, like i said i use a range build, with default strength.

Rage would be good, but not good enough to justify modding for it when i have a much stronger build by minmaxing for the night form.

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1 minute ago, kgabor said:

Nope, i'm replacing nothing for attack speed as i don't day form anyways.

I don't like most of its abilities and its looks and it saves time and energy to opt not to switch forms and use those abilities.

Not that i would have much use of them or need them anyways, like i said i use a range build, with default strength.

Rage would be good, but not good enough to justify modding for it when i have a much stronger build by minmaxing for the night form.

I'm sorry I don't have Equinox. But are you always in night form if you don't use her 1? And does that mean you always have her damage and speed boost?

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