Jump to content

Hydroid Needs a Rework


NuclearCoffeePot
 Share

Recommended Posts

13 hours ago, (PS4)Nujintuai said:

Hydroid rework

Bro not to attack you but please go through this form an look at your initial comments. You're seriously the issue with the game when people say the community is toxic. It's a form¬†post about a proposed rework and you're acting like a dog with food aggression. None of this is this serious ūüėí. If you disagree no need to explain to us. It's an idea. You can always create a new form. But the ego trip will never be necessary. I'm certain most people would love you criticism but only when its constructive. You really haven't offered anything other an small "D" energy and attitude. Just be an adult an go away.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

I was never trying to change their mind because it is so obvious that they know Hydroid isn't great and they're grasping at straws with this argument. That's clear enough from the really poor defence that takes the word need to its literal extreme. Nujintuai doesn't like change is all.

 

Actually, i think at this point that the only thing thst is obvious is that you simply are mad that you want to play as Hydroid but struggle with his playstyle. Rather than learn it, you find it simpler to blame the kit and use absolutes to argue your point. 

You also like to put words in people's mouths and attempt to dominate conversations with beforementioned absolute statements--- and this fails, as it has this time, as you havent convinced me of anything other than you simply dont like Hydroid. 

You are correct about one thing though.. as a conversation requires two people and you have chosen to stop, then there is no result other than the end of the conversation. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, (XB1)Aquarii Ptosi said:

Bro not to attack you but please go through this form an look at your initial comments. You're seriously the issue with the game when people say the community is toxic. It's a form¬†post about a proposed rework and you're acting like a dog with food aggression. None of this is this serious ūüėí. If you disagree no need to explain to us. It's an idea. You can always create a new form. But the ego trip will never be necessary. I'm certain most people would love you criticism but only when its constructive. You really haven't offered anything other an small "D" energy and attitude. Just be an adult an go away.

No worries, im done.  I just wanted to know why people thought Hydroid NEEDED a rework (instead of WANTING a rework)... but im out, so its over.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I feel like his rework should mostly be about the way his abilities work more than changes to his abilities.
Nujintuai person, I "agree" on that "Hydroid is good". IN CONCEPT. The idea behind the skills, theme, etc. It would feel weird for me for them to change his abilities. BUT HE DOES NEED A REWORK.
Whenever I see these posts I try to avoid changing Hydroid's abilities too much, because they're not "bad", they just don't deliver good enough compared to most other warframes.
My main concerns are about stats and how they work

1 Ability isn't really useful without the augment and even then with it, since the last changes to status, it got nerfed badly. Also that it now throws rag dolled enemies outside the area of attack. And RNG. Uncharged version is worthless. (Charging should be an option for it; aka: should only affect area of effect and/or duration, keeping its max damage consistent). (I feel like changing the damage instead of only impact (assuming maximum damage), it could do better with 50% impact and 50% piercing, maybe, I'm not very knowledgeable in numbers)
2 Barely used, bad mobility since you're just stuck going forward until it's done. Needs fixing. (cloud walker would be something to look at, but not make it the same)
3 Safe card, rewards you for idle gameplay, not the idea. EXTREMELY SLOW, damage "ok", but slow as well and could work better. (honestly, it does really feel boring to use it). Could be changed for survivability skill or improved, but current state is a no go.
4 Enemies easily go through tentacles. Yay true damage, but barely enough damage. "Dumb" tentacles, make it smarter, target enemies, instead of just grabbing them, to make them like the prime trailer: crush the enemies and do damage over time, and those killed be dropped after a second (or two), so the Kraken can target new enemies.

And his passive is basically worthless, imo. Needs something better. I do like the wet zones effect mentioned here, as in: every ability leaves a watery area after use that last x amount of time after the ability is done. What effects? idk, make the enemies slip (cc) and increase your speed? maybe have an augment that would provide what you said, with the healing and resistance. Idk

If they were to change more in a rework, I wouldn't complain as long as it works, and as long as they don't take away our Kraken. (Honestly, like I mentioned, his abilities in concept are good; just fail in delivery since there's frames that do the same and better)

I'm playing it safe with the "ideas", because I love Hydroid, but I do feel he needs help.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Quir0 said:

I feel like his rework should mostly be about the way his abilities work more than changes to his abilities.
Nujintuai person, I "agree" on that "Hydroid is good". IN CONCEPT. The idea behind the skills, theme, etc. It would feel weird for me for them to change his abilities. BUT HE DOES NEED A REWORK.
Whenever I see these posts I try to avoid changing Hydroid's abilities too much, because they're not "bad", they just don't deliver good enough compared to most other warframes.
My main concerns are about stats and how they work

1 Ability isn't really useful without the augment and even then with it, since the last changes to status, it got nerfed badly. Also that it now throws rag dolled enemies outside the area of attack. And RNG. Uncharged version is worthless. (Charging should be an option for it; aka: should only affect area of effect and/or duration, keeping its max damage consistent). (I feel like changing the damage instead of only impact (assuming maximum damage), it could do better with 50% impact and 50% piercing, maybe, I'm not very knowledgeable in numbers)
2 Barely used, bad mobility since you're just stuck going forward until it's done. Needs fixing. (cloud walker would be something to look at, but not make it the same)
3 Safe card, rewards you for idle gameplay, not the idea. EXTREMELY SLOW, damage "ok", but slow as well and could work better. (honestly, it does really feel boring to use it). Could be changed for survivability skill or improved, but current state is a no go.
4 Enemies easily go through tentacles. Yay true damage, but barely enough damage. "Dumb" tentacles, make it smarter, target enemies, instead of just grabbing them, to make them like the prime trailer: crush the enemies and do damage over time, and those killed be dropped after a second (or two), so the Kraken can target new enemies.

And his passive is basically worthless, imo. Needs something better. I do like the wet zones effect mentioned here, as in: every ability leaves a watery area after use that last x amount of time after the ability is done. What effects? idk, make the enemies slip (cc) and increase your speed? maybe have an augment that would provide what you said, with the healing and resistance. Idk

If they were to change more in a rework, I wouldn't complain as long as it works, and as long as they don't take away our Kraken. (Honestly, like I mentioned, his abilities in concept are good; just fail in delivery since there's frames that do the same and better)

I'm playing it safe with the "ideas", because I love Hydroid, but I do feel he needs help.

If we were to rework him without changing the core of his abilities this is what I would suggest

Passive-Make it one of his current augments, either allies in abilities get status immunity and heals or enemies effected drop extra loot

1-Your right on the charge point- The damage is mediocre but it is tough to balance since it has such a wide aoe compared to most 1st abilities- being forced to hold for max effect is clunky

Behavior-For starters projectiles shouldnt ragdoll enemies away, it prevents projectiles from hitting as often as they could considering how many hit the ground per second- So instead giving projectiles a light homing feature to better hit enemies and a guaranteed knock down or stagger instead of knock back/ragdoll- this helps more projectiles hit, effectively increasing its potential damage

In order to prevent the damage from falling off by having too many projectiles homing in on one enemy, further worsening the rng problem- The number of projectiles that are spawned each second will be determined by the number of enemies in the zone-

As for damage type- With status as it is now and even before the damage type at base is bad, and the augment isn't as good as it once was- Hopefully the changes too its behavior would solve this issue somewhat- if absolutely necessary direct hits with the projectiles could have a chance to deal slash or puncture damage, and the augment could have the damage type adapt so its more useful against corpus enemies as well

2-Giving it a cancel and having it travel in the target direction rather then simply forward so you can cast vertically might work- Giving it a hold cast for better mobility would be nice but he already has 2 so it might feel clunky- One idea would for it to be a straight mobility booster instead of what it is now- Like a "flow like water" sort of gig, increasing bullet jump distance and making slide and roll's a dash or even letting him surf on a kraken for fun is an idea i've seen somewhere

3-IT slows down gameplay allot and does need some significant changes but I recognize many still like it and I confess I too have had fun with it. Its still clunky and fairly useless tho.Letting the pool stay behind after you leave or just making it placeable with a cast and enterable on condition could work to improve gameplay- Something like- place the puddle at a location and enemies get caught in it but if you fall below a certain hp threshold or recast you instantly tp and submerge in the pool to heal or Every enemy caught in the pool gives hydroid some sort of hp buffer or overshielding

4-Kraken tentacles need their behavior fixed no dispute- With his one fixed for damage we can focus on the cc aspect. Currently grabbing multiple enemis is useful thanks to the limited number of tentacles but that in itself creates problems with body breaking etc- Instead casting Kraken will mark the cast zone- When an enemy enters a tentacle will spawn beneath them after a delay and lift them up, crushing them in its grasp but despawning after a duration of holding or the enemy dies but there is a max cap of tentacles active at a given time or tentacles beyond the initial summon count can spawn at an added energy drain- One other idea would be to make it a persistent effect around hydroid on cast- causing a tentacle to summon beneath nearby enemies and lift them up but only when he is near them

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm liking your input a lot ūüėĄ

Agree on the new passive to be one of his augment, making a "wet" area that lasts the duration of the skill + a couple seconds. Maybe the pilfering passive (making every ability able to do the extra loot, that would make him incredibly good with nekros, always casting skill to get kill extra loot and post death extra loot) or doing the status immunity and/or heals (would be a bit overpowered don't you think? Maybe a new augment for the passive?)

Tho what I would change is in the kraken, I kinda like the aesthetics of the tentacles around, but I would mix it up with the enemy detection, so the tentacles in the other side of the casting area can go submerge and emerge again a second or two after a new enemy enters the area, so it's not extremely instantaneous, or maybe yes (and have them for enemies going through the tentacles be at least a little slowed down, when the tentacles are busy, they're still bodies they have to go through or around).

Regarding the persistent around hydroid idea, that could work as a secondary augment for it (if the pilfering augment still exists), I've seen people suggest Hydroid mounting the Kraken like a K-drive, so in this one it could work, having hydroid on top of the Kraken, a bit of faster mobility, less tentacles (Imagine a total of 6-8 tentacles going with you, a maximum of 4 grabbed enemies while the other 4 keep slamming around your enemies), moving with you along the way. Or the same but without being on top of the kraken and have it follow you around, still with less tentacles, but them having more range to pull enemies to you

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I’ve been thinking about this for a while, as I am a fan of casters that use the elements (my favorite being water) in video games. I’ve thought for a long time as to how hydroid should be reworked if that moment ever came.

 

1-Tempest Barrage- functionally remains the same, except the impact of the water projectiles aren’t so random. The onslaught of heavy rain would begin at the center of the cast area, end expend through out the entirety of it, increasing the number projectiles as the Ability’s duration runs out.

 

2-Riptide- A movement+CC ability (in my¬†opinion) never really seemed to fit the rest of hydroid‚Äôs stagnant abilities, so, instead of hydroid going ‚Äúhaha water go splish splash woosh,‚ÄĚ he instead sends out a wave, trapping an enemy in a little whirlpool. However, if there are enemies nearby within a certain radius, Riptide acts like larva or ensnare and expands the ¬† ¬†whirlpool trapping the group of enemies.
 

3-Deep End- Now, we all know that the puddle has some pretty rockin‚Äô scaling damage, and that is what will transfer into Deep End. Instead of dissolving into a pool of water, Hydroid will send out a small, fast moving water projectile that when deployed, will turn into the classical puddle we all know and love with it‚Äôs juicy damage. Additionally, Riptide and Deep End will have some synergy. If Hydroid casts Deep End into Riptide, Riptide will grow in size, and it‚Äôs ‚Äúensnare‚ÄĚ range will be double and after the enemies are trapped in the whirlpool, it will transition into Deep End, trapping the grouped enemies into the puddle. Deep end will also keep the mechanic of squadmates being able to shoot into the puddle to do damage to trapped enemies.

 

4-Abbysal Myth- Hydroid borrows power from his kraken buddy and transforms himself into it (of course scaled to a size that isn’t ridiculous) and can use the tenicles (amount scales with power strength) as a type of melee that does 5 percent of the enemies health each swing, of course the tenticles will grab enemies as they currently do. This ability is channeled and hydroid is immune in this state. Additionally, hydroid can perform a slam attack that does 50% of the enemies health at the cost of energy. He can also do this to enemies trapped within Deep End. 
 

 

I think this would need some tweaking but I believe it actually makes hydroid good. Plus his augments wouldn’t have to be changed.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Quir0 said:

tentacle*
Also: why change the Kraken that much ūüėě

Well, it’s sort of underwhelming, and all of hydroid’s kit is underwhelming. Take a look at how they changed ember. Her 4 went from burning everything around her to literal meteors striking the ground and then burning and debuffing stuff around her. What I am suggesting is that the core mechanic of his four  (grabbing enemies and tossing them around) to still exist but actually give it damage and to make it interactive. Abyssal Myth was inspired by Valkyr’s 4, except you can’t mod it.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

At least now we can cancel tide, even tho is kinda bugged (you cancel and sometimes it activates again)...

What bugs me most is that right after last update it seems like they fixed mods and drops following your Undertow, I could keep grabbing enemies using tentacles without the need to get the drop and activating Undertow again, but it's GONE now. It was working perfectly and I have no idea why they reverted it back to the old version or if it was just my game bugged. Hydroid was actually playable on Steel Path survivals with its true dmg, but now... 

I didn't check any patch notes tho.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2020-08-13 at 6:13 PM, NuclearCoffeePot said:

Passive: Hydroid's current passive sees no use and is not very useful- Instead I designed a passive that would promote active gameplay while providing some useful utility for the squad.

Healing Waters- Certain Abilities leave an aoe effect over whatever they touch, Hydroid and friends can enter these zones to receive status resistance and healing per second. In addition certain abilities benefit from enhanced effects when used by Hydroid

For my sake i will refer to these areas as Wet Zones

-Note-The status resistance and hps will also allow for certain abilities to receive new, more useful augments 

1st ability-Tide Sphere-  Hydroid summons Oceanic waters in a contained sphere at the target location, enemies within the zone are suspended as though floating and take damage per second while a % of projectiles from outside are blocked by the sphere

2-Tidal Surge- For starters-

3- Possibly his strangest and most complex ability- Phorcys/Seastone Lantern- Hydroid summons an eerie stone lantern that has multiple unique effects and properties- 

4-Reworked Kraken- Call of the Deep- Hydroid summons tentacles like his current 4 but with altered behavior and effects- 

 

 

It's one of their best rework ideas! I really like it, the lantern Idea looks fun, useful and match the pirate-ish/sailor theme.

Btw, I really love undertow, so that's just me not wanting this to go but why not implement "undertow" on Tidal Surge. For example: If you keep holding Tidal Surge but doesn't move, it will be just like our old Undertow, and if you move you could keep enemies already stacked underwater to travel with hydroid (maybe like shinning dots to not have a visual mess) and also trap the ones you are passing through, like you said.

For people saying Hydroid doesn't need a rework,I say it's not just about what you can do with him but about how lots of other frames can just do better than him, sometimes in every aspect, even for the ol' good "farming Hydroid". 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2020-08-21 at 5:47 PM, Sahiratu said:

For people saying Hydroid doesn't need a rework,I say it's not just about what you can do with him but about how lots of other frames can just do better than him, sometimes in every aspect, even for the ol' good "farming Hydroid". 

I agree. It's not even that others do it better, since there will always be something better, but the fact that he isn't even on par with anything. I would say he is below mediocre on everything he is supposed to be good at. He was only the best at farming until Khora got the ability to do the same in a way that is more synergistic with Nekros (those nice slash procs), can kill faster, and more easily grabs enemies. All that makes up for the percentage chance drop that she has easily. Plus she is overall better designed. 

I'm still curious if anyone from DE looks at any of these threads and considers what the forum members have to say though. As a whole many threads for frames are posted and not acknowledged. Even Pablo, after the Vauban and Ember reworks, once stated that he feels all the frames are in a good place now despite all the threads about Hydroid, Nyx, Valkyr, and the rest of the regular rework crew. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2020-08-21 at 10:47 PM, Sahiratu said:

For people saying Hydroid doesn't need a rework,I say it's not just about what you can do with him but about how lots of other frames can just do better than him, sometimes in every aspect, even for the ol' good "farming Hydroid".

20 hours ago, (NSW)AzulMage said:

It's not even that others do it better, since there will always be something better, but the fact that he isn't even on par with anything.

Exactly. Hydroid is basically just there. Every other frame can do his job better, including farming. It honestly baffles me how some people still act like a rework could "ruin" Hydroid, when he's already in such a poor state.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

45 minutes ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

Exactly. Hydroid is basically just there. Every other frame can do his job better, including farming. It honestly baffles me how some people still act like a rework could "ruin" Hydroid, when he's already in such a poor state.

Yep. If Hydroid were at least mediocre, not the best at anything, but passable at stuff, I could at least be okay with that and say a rework is not the top priority. But I feel he does not even meet those requirements once you stop doing the regular starchart. It sucks because I used him for most of the regular startchart and liked him. I have played ever since the game was released on Switch. I remember going into the game and hearing how Hydroid is not good. I was baffled because I was clearing regular starchart, especially defense missions, very easily with him and did not see what was wrong. It was not until I got into later content that I saw how bad his current kit is and how you have to work extra hard to get a kill, a proper CC, or decent survival compared to everything else. The game these days has turned into a power fantasy game and Hydroid is one of the frames that is anti-power fantasy at the moment.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, (NSW)AzulMage said:

I was baffled because I was clearing regular starchart, especially defense missions, very easily with him and did not see what was wrong. It was not until I got into later content that I saw how bad his current kit is and how you have to work extra hard to get a kill, a proper CC, or decent survival compared to everything else.

Yea exactly. Hydroid just needs to put in ten times the effort in order to do what other frames can do a lot easier and even then, he's still vastly inferior due the mechanics of his abilities. He's really suffered as the game has evolved basically without him.

1 hour ago, (NSW)AzulMage said:

The game these days has turned into a power fantasy game and Hydroid is one of the frames that is anti-power fantasy at the moment.  

He's probably the last real reminder of what the gameplay was like back in 2014; much slower paced and deliberate. But even back then he was regarded as not very useful when compared to others.

Really hope he gets a full on rework, sometime soon. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I prefer minimalist reworks that don't replace abilities. I would still want him to feel like Hydroid and most of the reworks completely change him. 

What might be a simple but interesting add to  Hydroids 4 is to make it when 4 is active any enemy he hits gets tentacled. Kind of like his passive on steroids it would really add to his loot frame capacity. You could possibly even make it synergise with his other abilities so they do it as well. 

For his 3  just let him walk around invulnerable as water for a few seconds before collapsing into a puddle. Then if its cancellable it could act like rolling guard for shield gating.

His 1 is ok maybe just make it do magnetic procs as base to make up for the corrosive nerf then with the augment it gains kind of universal defence stripping. 

Edited by Solarsyphon
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Solarsyphon said:

I prefer minimalist reworks that don't replace abilities. I would still want him to feel like Hydroid and most of the reworks completely change him.

That's because Hydroid does need to be changed in order for him to be brought up to current Warframe standards and that means replacing or heavily reworking his abilities. He simply does not stand out at all in the modern game and his niche for loot farming was filled a while ago by Khora. Simple tweaks and stat boosts simply will not cut it this time due to how he was designed.

Hydroid would still have powers based around the water/ocean theme so he wouldn't really be changing his image. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Does Hydroid need changes? Yes. Changes like these? No.

Fix Tempest Barrage tossing enemies around instead of knocking them down like it used to do. Fix Undertow failing to scoop up enemies affected by Tidal Sure. Fix Undertow casts interrupting manual reloads. Adjust Tentacle Swarm. He does not need two abilities which are remotely deployed persistent damage and crowd control fields that make it impossible to score headshots.

Y'all really need to quit suggesting versions of Undertow which involve placing the puddle remotely. You completely miss the appeal of Undertow.

And quit going on about Hydroid as a loot frame. 'Loot frame' is an underwhelming niche and always has been. Most of us don't need additional copies of Ammo Drum or more Nano Spores. I won't say it isn't some nice utility now and again, but it doesn't matter even half as much as people like to pretend.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Also just wanted to add that Hydroid REALLY does need a rework.  He’s honestly one of my favorite frames, but I never use him because literally every frame is better.  His abilities make him out to be a cool CC character.  But the  damage and CC capabilities are quite poor.  All I really use my Hydroid for is pilfering swarm.  Which is actually really upsetting because of how much I enjoy him.  I’d just love to see any kind of update to him.  Personally I just think he needs an overall buff.  A better passive would also be nice.  Changing Hydroids abilities would be neat.  However I think they’re fine as is.  I’d really just like to see a massive buff to make him more viable along with the other frames.  It’s pretty sad to see him now as just a niche loot frame.  

Edited by SireNightFire
Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, YagoXiten said:

You completely miss the appeal of Undertow.

The point is that Undertow has no appeal whatsoever. It's a terrible ability that takes away 90% of the games interaction, doesn't do great damage, a poor CC ability and is incredibly slow. There is quite literally no incentive to use the ability at all. It promotes a slow-paced camping playstyle, which Warframe hasn't officially revolved around since 2016.

Every single other ability in its category is far better. Undertow excels at being incredibly boring and inefficient, nothing else.

This is just one of the reasons why Hydroid needs a huge overhaul.

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

The point is that Undertow has no appeal whatsoever. It's a terrible ability that takes away 90% of the games interaction, doesn't do great damage, a poor CC ability and is incredibly slow. There is quite literally no incentive to use the ability at all. It promotes a slow-paced camping playstyle, which Warframe hasn't officially revolved around since 2016.

Every single other ability in its category is far better. Undertow excels at being incredibly boring and inefficient, nothing else.

This is just one of the reasons why Hydroid needs a huge overhaul.

 

Folks like you complain that the ability has mechanics such as being unable to collect loot, slow scaling damage, little CC, and poor movement speed all of which actively discourage you from camping in it and then, somehow, reach the conclusion that that's what the ability is for. When you're that committed to using it wrong it isn't surprising you'd hate it.

It's a reactive defensive ability. You use it to look at your surroundings. You use it to safely reload. You use it to refresh your shields. You use it to heal with Curative Undertow. You use it to avoid being detected by patrols in stealth missions. You use it to refresh Tempest Barrage when things get more difficult than you were expecting. You use it to dodge telegraphs like Kela De Thaym's rockets. That's why you can jump and roll out of it and why it has such a quick cast animation and a low Energy cost.

Thank you for proving my point.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, YagoXiten said:

When you're that committed to using it wrong it isn't surprising you'd hate it.

Ah, another one who likes the classic "You don't play it right" flawed argument. That's two now on this thread. Why don't you get back to the last page and see how the last person who used that argument turned out.

9 minutes ago, YagoXiten said:

It's a reactive defensive ability.

No its not. Why do you think DE even added scaling damage to it in the first place; to encourage you to stay in it longer.

11 minutes ago, YagoXiten said:

You use it to heal with Curative Undertow.

Pretty poor rate of healing and vastly inferior to other methods out there.

11 minutes ago, YagoXiten said:

You use it to avoid being detected by patrols in stealth missions.

Take literally any other stealth frame for that, as they can be invisible, use their weapons and move faster than a fatty with no legs.

This isn't a slow paced stealth shooter.

14 minutes ago, YagoXiten said:

You use it to refresh Tempest Barrage when things get more difficult than you were expecting.

Since when you do need to be in Undertow to do that. Press one button; done refreshed.

15 minutes ago, YagoXiten said:

You use it to dodge telegraphs like Kela De Thaym's rockets.

Again, far better options out there for things like that.

15 minutes ago, YagoXiten said:

Thank you for proving my point.

You never had any valid point. You've just shown how utterly inferior Undertow is compared to other abilities in various situations.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The general idea of turning into water which undertow provides I think is interesting because it is thematic and you can create different kinds of abilities with only small modification.

At the moment its basically a disabling invulnerability and grouping abilities.  This is because you are slow to move, slow to grab and slow to intiate/ cancel. In the modern game there are alternatives that mean it could maybe do with a bit of a buff in one of those aspects to make it better grouping or defensive ability.

To improve grouping 
You could make it faster
You could make the grab Aoe like making it a shark or bunch of tentacles you send out that grabs an area pulling it in
You could make tidal surge absorb enemies on impact instead of dragging them and absorbing at the end to improve its consistency. 

To improve defensiveness  
You could give an short invulnerability stage at the start like rolling guard and make it cancellable.   Side turning into water as an innate rolling guard style ability may generally be an effective as well as thematic passive for hydroid as well. Its something I think should be somewhere in his kit as part of either an ability or passive. 

Other
His kit is already associated with defence stripping through corrosive barrage, improving this and integrating it into more of his abilities could be very effective. He can turn into acid instead of water.
 

Honestly any of those I think could make undertow really compelling as all it really needs to do is what it already does  but better.  There is nothing Hydroids kit is glaringly missing except a big damage ability but I don't know if you want all frames to be nukers. His abilities are just not the best versions of what they do for that reason id just want them brought up to the level of complexity and power of more modern abilities. 

Some similar changes I have suggested are.
Making it so while tentacle swarm he generates tentacles when he hits and or kills enemies. That would b makes his tentacles more predictable,  help keep up with fast pace movement and create interesting weapon synergies. I think it could be really cool to make a Hydroid that for example cuts through a crowd creating tentacles. 

It could also be interesting to have the option to have tempest barrage follow you because similarly it would help it keep up with the fast pace better and typically you use tempest barrage and tentacle swarm together with corrosive. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

Ah, another one who likes the classic "You don't play it right" flawed argument. That's two now on this thread. Why don't you get back to the last page and see how the last person who used that argument turned out.

No its not. Why do you think DE even added scaling damage to it in the first place; to encourage you to stay in it longer.

Pretty poor rate of healing and vastly inferior to other methods out there.

Take literally any other stealth frame for that, as they can be invisible, use their weapons and move faster than a fatty with no legs.

This isn't a slow paced stealth shooter.

Since when you do need to be in Undertow to do that. Press one button; done refreshed.

Again, far better options out there for things like that.

You never had any valid point. You've just shown how utterly inferior Undertow is compared to other abilities in various situations.

The last person gave up arguing with you because you make a ton of false dichotomies and hyperbolic statements you pass off as fact. Debating so poorly that folks decide it's a waste of time to engage further isn't the winning endorsement of your arguments that you think it is.

I'm not saying you're wrong because you don't use it correctly. I'm saying you don't use it correctly because you're wrong about what it is for. It has scaling damage to partially offset it taking away conventional damage sources. You're only in it as long as you need to be to keep yourself safe.

There are better defensive abilities than Undertow, better nukes than Miasma, and better stealths than Smokescreen, but that doesn't make them bad or useless abilities.

I don't even deny that Hydroid has problems, but Undertow isn't one of them. Tempest Barrage has been pretty awful to use since they broke its functionality with the status stacking patch, Tidal Surge could use some tweaks to improve its handling and work more like Mach Rush or Cloud Walker, and Tentacle Swarm and his passive are downright awful.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...