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Hydroid Needs a Rework


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2 hours ago, (PS4)Nujintuai said:

So, did you Steel test it ? Im still confused to your survival issue -- but its not relevant anymore. Im glad that pillage does the trick. You dont even need to come up with a "meta name" for it (like my Keelhaul setup) ..  "Pillage" already goes with pirate theme. 

Enjoy ! 

he was just dying to steel path enemies quicker than other frames i use when i wasnt in my puddle or constantly using a melee weapon. yeah its even better on steel path because enemies have higher shields and armor.

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On 2020-08-28 at 6:57 PM, Ichsuisme said:

Once his 2&3 are combined, I’d want an ability that helps Hydroid stay alive while he’s mobile. He’s great at CC — but only when he’s locking down areas; none of his CC moves with him. He’s not a tanky frame, he needs something in his kit that he can use while he’s running around.
 

Yeah I would agree with that but probably I would just make it like a sprint where you hold shift.  Then that leave an ability space and honestly the lantern idea isn't bad for that. it would be very interesting to make enemies just wander into his zones of death to drown or be eaten by the kraken. Though a stationary lantern is kind of  derivative of titania and again would lock Hydroid in place so my suggestion would be just make an aoe pulse that applies the lantern effect you could call it siren song or something.  You could carry over the augment on that given it an aoe status immunity buff to allies. 
 

On 2020-08-30 at 3:51 AM, Ichsuisme said:

Except his skills don’t move with him.

This is why I advocated for two changes:
Make barrage have an option to follow him probably replacing its current charge mechanic. It might need more duration for this to be satisfying. 
Add a buff to tentacle swarm during which  when he damages an enemy or something similar. It would be like his passive but  more consistent. 

There are also some QOL changes id suggest
Like have tentacle swarm start as a really small high density aoe and get larger with charge allot faster

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On 2020-08-21 at 5:47 PM, Sahiratu said:

It's one of their best rework ideas! I really like it, the lantern Idea looks fun, useful and match the pirate-ish/sailor theme.

Btw, I really love undertow, so that's just me not wanting this to go but why not implement "undertow" on Tidal Surge. For example: If you keep holding Tidal Surge but doesn't move, it will be just like our old Undertow, and if you move you could keep enemies already stacked underwater to travel with hydroid (maybe like shinning dots to not have a visual mess) and also trap the ones you are passing through, like you said.

For people saying Hydroid doesn't need a rework,I say it's not just about what you can do with him but about how lots of other frames can just do better than him, sometimes in every aspect, even for the ol' good "farming Hydroid". 

Thx for your feedack, Im glad you like the concept. As for the keeping undertow that is sort of my intention. I understand people love it but I am trying not to make the same undertow mechanic take presidence over the rest of his kit to prevent the same stagnant playstyle. However we can smush it into the hold cast by simply altering the animation and increasing the suck range of the water- then it will just be a faster undertow

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So to start, I LOVE this rework suggestion! I can't tell you the number of times I have picked hydroid just because I could go in puddle in a mission at any point and not worry about dying while I go make a sandwich, poop, do chores, etc. This has sadly been the only appeal this frame has had to me since his rework. I've tried many different builds/load outs for both active and passive gameplay and I can say from my personal experience that the ones that have been the most promising to me involve using almost all augments, modding for a ridiculous amount of survivability, replacing powers with helminth, or just using a melee play style. His powers in their current state do seem to be underwhelming. Some parts are also confusing. For example their is an interaction with his 4 and 3 where if you cast his 4 while in 3 the tentacles won't be as spread out even when charged. However, that only works when their are no enemies around. If you cast 4 while in 3 while enemies are near then it just behaves like normal. I was told this interaction was there because people would mod hydroid for negative range to cluster the tentacles in doorways and chokes for farming. If that was the case why make the ability have this weird interaction if you get the same result by not charging the ability? Another question is why is there scaling damage in puddle if it is a defensive reactive ability? It doesn't take long to regenerate shields, you only reload if you go in puddle on an empty clip, it takes forever to ramp up the damage, and why use the augment for his 3 when magus repair exists? I understand hydroid can work but so can a MK 1-Braton. Any argument that bad equipment can be viable seems to miss the point of asking for a rework. The point in asking for a rework is to improve the quality of the equipment. It can work, but there is nothing wrong with wanting something that works better. I'm sure if anyone in this forum had total freedom to put whatever power they wanted on any frame there would be a crazy amount of different and unique ideas.

I personally would love to see this rework on hydroid. The only thing I would do different would be to move his tidal sphere to his 3 and his sea stone lantern to his 1. Maybe his lantern could be re-named light house? 

Great ideas, very creative, I'm just concerned that the realistic thing to expect is that they just do minimal changes to current powers. 

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  • 7 months later...

Hi!

First: That's great ideas! i thought of some similar idea and i'm glad other did too ^^

To me, Hydroid is like devi jones in pirate of the caribbean. So with his pirate part come an ... ghostly / monstruous part.

I had multiple idea. one for his passive is this:

Passive: Captain of the deep: Hydroid is used to incredible pressure. He can then resist more the impact damage type (this idea come from here https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1251676-hydroid-rework/) and can have + 25% resistance against fire(due to the fact that i thought of elemental resistance for elemental warframes) and -25% resistance against shock.

 

Additionally, while inside a railjack, his innate leadership give a small bonus to the crew and railjack for damage dealt, ship speed, and energy efficiency (maybe 10% of each).

I also have some thought about his abilities: one where he can switch between being a pirate or a esotheric being that pull the soul of the damn into the sea.

For example,

his 1:

Charged or cast
while cast, same as a fully charge 1 from now. For the charged mode, a sphere of water surround the head of enemy, making them drown. damage is of the same type than the puddle but less powerful. the enemy is incapacitate (like with the burning panic effect).

his 2:

Basically does the same than now but can be maintain to go on longer distance and aiming upward make a real tsunami, making him go higher (so may not pass some doors) but the area of effect is wider.

Additionnaly, while in puddle and while maintaining this ability, Hydroid become a sort of water tendrill linked to his puddle, capable of moving in every direction until you touch the ground, cast again puddle or cancel the power. While in this form, Hydroid is invulnerable and a water trail between is current position and his puddule is formed. Every enemy making contact to the water trail became trapped inside undertow, in the place when they touch the trail. While you touch the ground (not the wall) or cast again undertow, you slam on the ground, making a new undertow there (the previous one disapear). The water tendril then came back to you (like the rewind ability) and with it every enemy trapped.

if a nullifier bubble touch the trail, the link is unterrupted and the ability is cancel (maybe instead of purely cancel, making it like "a new puddle appear at your location. every enemy between you and the cut link came to you, the other between the puddle and the nullifier are lost ")

His 3:

Can be cast or maintain. while maintain, you are the puddle. While cast, make a water vortex at the location. enemy within range are slowly being attracted by the vortex. enemy in touch with it fall in undertow. Undertow does now true damage (because it's quite dumb that you cannot drown if you have a shield)

I also thought of an idea with the switching mode when in cast, summon a calm lake with dense fog. enemy inside are lost (they walk randomly) and cannot see if not close to the target. their speed and health are slowly drain until attaining 0. at that time, they fall into undertow. when they die, they became a lost soul, wandering in the undertow and taking living with them in the undertow. Enemies that saw then go near them and shoot at them, attracting other. (maybe for each lost soul, augmenting damage dealt)

His 4:

Making it a area effect summon instead of summon. Can be maintain for increased range or cast for smaller energy cost.

On cast, make a thin puddle on the ground of the side of the area of effect. (maybe with different visual effect than undertow). It is a thin pellicle of water but within it, the deep gaze at you. While an enemy enter the area, a tentacle emerge from the water, grabbing the enemy. the enemy take an increasing amount of true damage and enemy that cannot be grabbed are marked by a debuf slowing them (and maybe reducing their armor).

while the enemy grabbed are alive, the tentacle behave like normal, grabbing enemy near them. When all enemy grabbed by a tentacle dies, the tentacle disapear to be allocated to another enemy entering the area of effect.

While cast during the effect of tidal wave (his 2) under the water tendrill mode, the beast will gaze uppon the enemies in range an pull them in with his tentacles.
While cast while in undertow, now the tentacle will grab the enemy and pull them in the undertow. they still suffer the damage of the tentacle and the damage of undertow (the damage of the tentacle count in the calculation of incremental damage of undertow)

For pillefering swarm:
Now pillefering swarm cause a debuff on a duration when hit by a tentacle. Enemy gives additional loot when kill while the debuff is still active (made this way to permit additional loot from enemy unafected by the grab)

That's all, what do you guys think about it? ^^ (sorry for my poor english i'm not native ^^")

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Posted (edited)

The thing is that Hydroid doesn't require a lot of dramatic alterations in order to put him into a great spot. In fact, he could do with the removal of certain things.

Charge casting for instance should be removed from his kit. There are only two of his abilities that have charge casting. And charging to cast them doesn't make them AMAZING. It makes them simply mediocre. So, right away, if we just removed the charge casting aspect of these abilities and instead simply made their charged state their normal state, right away, we improve his kit.

And, to continue to be able to see the area the abilities themselves will land, take a page from Nidus. Players can hold down 1 in order to see the area that Virulence will cover. Why not just do the same here? That way, players can just quick cast if they want or hold down the 1 or 4 buttons for strategic placement of the respective abilities and still get the same AOE either way.

Charge casting just doesn't really lend itself well to the whole hardcore parkour game play. It forces delay, the player having to wait for the ability to finish charging before placing it. Just because Natural Talent can reduce it doesn't make the abilities themselves great either. When they essentially always have to be charged to max to be worth the energy to cast them, why have the base form at all? It's just needless hinderance on a frame that doesn't need that hinderance for a result that doesn't pay back that invested time well.

What do you get for the charge? Tempest Barrage goes from 25 energy cost to 50 and you get 2x damage and 2x duration. That would be pretty good if the base damage wasn't only 150 impact damage and the base duration wasn't only 5 seconds. And Tentacle Swarm, you also double the cost from 50 to 100 energy, and get 3x range and 2x the number of tentacles spawned. Not bad if the base range wasn't only 5 meters and the number of tentacles could be affected by ANY ability modifier. Instead, you're stuck at 20 max tentacles, and their placement AI is awful. I've had fully charged casts where half the tentacles sprout from the corner of a single box. It's ridiculous. It wouldn't be such a utter disappointment if I hadn't just spent 2.5 seconds having to charge up the ability first.

Edited by xZeromusx
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I've got feedback on Hydroid based on playing together with someone playing Hydroid, and this seemed like a better place for it than a new thread.

Barrage

  • Base duration 10 -> 15 

Tentacles

  • This skill reduces DPS considerably unless everyone in the party has AoE weapons. Enemies get lifted way up in the air, wriggling around where they're really hard to shoot. The "effective" way to solve this might be to just freeze enemies in place so headshots are easy, but that'd be incredibly boring. It's really cool to watch the spectacle of enemies being flailed around. Instead, I suggest that players should be able to shoot the tentacles to deal damage to grabbed enemies. Maybe have puddles under each tentacle acting as static, easily hittable hitboxes for this effect. Enemies should also be held upside down so that the head is the part that moves the least.
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  • 5 weeks later...
On 2020-08-16 at 2:28 AM, Ichsuisme said:

I'm hoping there's an unannounced Hydroid rework coming with his deluxe skin. Probably setting myself up for disappointment. Helminth won't go far enough.

Sadly it didn't happen. If we are lucky with the release of Yareli they will finally realize hydroid needs changes.

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On 2021-05-03 at 12:27 AM, Zeddypanda said:

I've got feedback on Hydroid based on playing together with someone playing Hydroid, and this seemed like a better place for it than a new thread.

Barrage

  • Base duration 10 -> 15 

Tentacles

  • This skill reduces DPS considerably unless everyone in the party has AoE weapons. Enemies get lifted way up in the air, wriggling around where they're really hard to shoot. The "effective" way to solve this might be to just freeze enemies in place so headshots are easy, but that'd be incredibly boring. It's really cool to watch the spectacle of enemies being flailed around. Instead, I suggest that players should be able to shoot the tentacles to deal damage to grabbed enemies. Maybe have puddles under each tentacle acting as static, easily hittable hitboxes for this effect. Enemies should also be held upside down so that the head is the part that moves the least.

I agree with you wholeheartedly. Especially the duration comment. Tempest Barrage doesnt last long enough to be a useful cc and frankly even if it did its still wonky.

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Here is a Hydroid Revisit I've been working on. Let me know what you think.

Passive

  • Increased chance of spawning a tentacle to 100%.
  • True damage over time scales with power strength (values are identical to Tentacle Swarm).

Tempest Barrage

  • Projectiles begin firing instantly after casting.
  • Duration increased to 7.5s-15s.
  • Charging no longer increases energy cost.
  • Corroding Barrage removes 5% of the target's maximum armor with every explosion.
    • Armor stripped is affected by ability strength.

Tidal Surge

  • Reduced energy cost to 25.
  • Tidal Surge grants Hydroid a 2s immunity period after Tidal Surge ends.
    • This duration isn't affected by mods.

Undertow.

  • Damage dealt to Undertow by allies will no longer be divided among submerged enemies. Instead, dealing damage to an Undertow will deal 100% of weapon damage to all enemies inside.
    • Weapon damage retains its damage type composition, critical stats, and is still subject to enemy resistances/armor.
  • Removed energy drain over distance traveled.
  • Tidal Surge is free while in Undertow.

Tentacle Swarm

  • Casting Tentacle Swarm creates a water trap (Undertow) at the target location with 50% more range (6m, scales with ability range the same as Undertow).
    • Enemies inside this water trap do not charge Hydroid energy for their death.
    • Enemies inside the trap can be pulled out by Tentacles.
    • Shooting this water trap will damage enemies inside, as well as enemies held be Tentacle Swarm.
    • Damage is identical to the normal Undertow.
    • Enemies inside the water trap count as "held" for Pilfering Swarm.
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Posted (edited)
On 2020-08-16 at 9:10 PM, (PSN)Nujintuai said:

Hydroid main since U13... completing Steel Path solo w/ Hydroid.. 

I usually am not this blunt, but I completely disagree with OP.

Hydroid got a rework. It was brilliant. Hydroid is really great as he is.. the problem is you dont know how to use him OR you simply WANT him to be something he is not. 

 

Hydroid is not great, and I question your grasp on reality for suggesting otherwise. His passive is laughably gimmicky, his 1 is clunky and needs an augment to do anything appreciable past level 20 (whatever happened to "we want augments to open up new ways to play" as opposed to them being bandaids for massive hemorrhaging gaps in Warframe kits?), his 2 only has mobility going for it, his 3 is straight up boring to use (oh boy! I can be a puddle! This is totally worth the time I spent getting Hydroid in the first place!), and his 4 was updated to look nicer and that was it.

Edited by Xana_Skullsunder
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Hydroid is de facto the worst frame in the game ever since Wukong got his rework. Terrible 1st ability damage, not very controllable 2nd ability, slow and not very game changing 3rd ability, and very limited CC of his 4th ability. No, making augments mandatory is NOT GOOD. A good frame does not need an augment to function properly.

Here is how I revisit him :

  • Tempest Barrage :
    • Damage buffed to 1000, damage scales by enemy level.
    • Charge mechanic removed.
    • Damage deals guaranteed impact proc.
    • The ability can force a parazon finisher prompt when the health threshold is reached.
    • Augment changed from corrosive proc to a flat stackable armor reduction.
    • The ability now no longer ragdoll enemies.
  • Tidal Surge 
    • Full freedom of steering.
    • Enemies hit by the wave have their defenses (armor and shields) reduced by a certain percentage.
    • Holding the ability button makes Hydroid go continously in wave mode with a set energy drain.
  • Undertow 
    • The Hydroid can move in his puddle at walking speed, he can sprint in puddle mode to increase mobility. 
    • Ability synergy with Tidal Surge, in puddle mode casting tidal surge gives you double the initial distance and reduced energy drain while holding the tidal surge button.
    • Another ability synergy with Tidal Surge, casting Tidal Surge reduces defenses of all enemies in the puddle based on Tidal Surge defense reduction stats.
  • Tentacle Swarm 
    • Charge mechanic removed.
    • Removed the tentacle limit.
    • On cast, the kraken will not release it’s tentacles early instead any enemy comes near the kraken’s grab range will be instantly grabbed by the kraken’s tentacles.
    • The Kraken will charm nearby enemies to go and gets closer to it. Allowing for easier grabs in large open areas.
    • Enemies grabbed by the kraken are 3x more vulnerable to damage, affected by ability STR.

       
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I'm just gonna chime in as well:

  • Passive
    • Mistform - All attacks directly landing on Hydroid have a 25% chance to harmlessly pass right through him.
  • Tempest Barrage
    • No longer has a chargemechanic.
      • Duration is still only 2/3/4/5 seconds, but damage is increased to 100/150/200/300 Impact damage
    • No longer ragdolls enemies (should only occur on an enemy's death)
    • Each explosion knocks down enemies
    • Each explosion reduces the enemy's current armor and shields by 1/2/3/4%, affected by Ability Strength
    • Augment: Corroding Barrage Abyssal Barrage  - Each explosion also has a 50/100/150/200% chance to cause Cold-procs on enemies, while restoring 5/10/15/20 shields to allies struck by the explosions. Can create overshields.
  • Tidal Surge
    • Base width is increased to 5/6/7/8 meters
    • Enemies struck are disarmed for 6/8/10/12 seconds - this has great synergy with all his other skills, since they are "zone" effects, as melee enemies have to rush in to these "zones")
    • Meleeing during Tidal Surge will cancel the ability early (which also triggers its ending slash-damage effect early), while also performing a slide-attack with your melee weapon!
    • Holdcast sends only the wave forward, without having Hydroid travelling along with it - functioning kinda like a big "push" ability.
      • Unlike the tapcast version, this one cannot be cancelled.
    • Enemies shooting through the surge will have the damage nullified! This makes the holdcast version a little bit safer to use too.
    • The ragdolling effect of Tidal Surge is made more gentle, just enough to deposit enemies a little bit in front of the wave when it ends.
      • This makes it better for gathering enemies at desired locations.
    • Augment: Tidal Impunity - Simply needs to be fixed from its bugs (it turns off the effect when recasting, and won't be available to be refreshed until the first one has "expired"...)
  • Undertow
    • Tapcast works just like now.
    • Holdcast causes Hydroid to place an Undertow pool at a distance (similar to how Loki places his Decoy). Max placement distance for this is 15/20/25/30 meters (affected by Ability Range)
      • A pool like this functions exactly the same as a Tapcast one (aside from the pool being static and your movement won't move the pool, and you can't shoot out any manual grab-tentacles, obviously).
    • Hydroid can go in and out of his pool by pressing to interact (default: X) while inside/on top of it. This works with both Tap- and Holdcast versions.
    • Max 1 pool can exist at a time
    • Just for clarification: If a pool is active (wether Hydroid is inside of it or not), casting the ability again removes the pool.
    • No longer drains additional energy while moving when submerged in Undertow.
    • Attacking enemies in the Undertow does not SPLIT the damage anymore. Furthermore, the damage-transfer is now 100% (instead of being reduced to 50%).
    • The manual tentaclegrab while inside a pool has its range increased to 10/15/20/25 meters.
    • Augment: Curative Undertow Treacherous Undertow - Undertow automatically tentacle-grabs an enemy (within the same range as the manual grab) every 5/4/3/2 seconds, and the damage of Undertow is increased by 10/20/30/50%.
  • Tentacle Swarm
    • No longer has a chargeup mechanic
      • Costs 100 energy and spawns 20 tentacles at base, at all times, and the spawn range for the tentacles is within a 8/10/12/15 meter radius
    • Synergy: If an Undertow is within a Tentacle Swarm's radius, all enemies in the Undertow takes additional damage as if they were all grabbed by Tentacle Swarm. This does NOT count towards the tentacle count.
      • Enemies killed in Undertow this way are subject to gain extra loot from Tentacle Swarm's augment!
      • Note: This damagecombo is added INSTEAD of the "2x damage for Tentacle Swarm when casting it from Undertow".
      • To indicate that this combo is taking place, the visible Kraken will show itself in the centre of Undertow, even if that is not the centre of Tentacle Swarm's cast.
    • Holdcast now toggles on/off wether you want the tentacles to be static, or move around. Their default setting is to move around, and whatever setting is toggled is memorized for subsequent casts.
      • When set to move around, they will move around inside of their spawning radius to go and grab enemies.
      • If an Undertow is within the swarm's spawning radius, the tentacle will move over to the Undertow and slam the enemy onto the Undertow, which also deposits this enemy into the Undertow.
        • When a tentacle places an enemy in Undertow like this, that tentacle is freed from action, allowing it to go and grab a new enemy.
        • Also remember the synergy mentioned a little above: This means that the enemy put inside the Undertow will suffer damage from both Undertow and Tentacle Swarm at the same time!
    • Attacking a tentacle will fully damage the grabbed enemy
    • Once a tentacle has grabbed an enemy, they will crush and choke it to death in a more steady fashion than now, only occassionally causing the current slam-attacks (which deals heavy impact damage in an AoE, and tries to slam enemies onto other nearby enemies).
    • If an enemy grabbed by a tentacle dies, that enemy is quickly tossed onto other enemies (or random location, if no visible enemies nearby). This throw also causes damage, with the same range and damage as the slam-attack.

 

Basicly, this massively removes a lot of Hydroid's RNG, and flips that around to instead make him a MASTER at zone-control! Undertow and Tentacle Swarm combined would make for a giant deathtrap area, while Tempest Barrage's debuffs helps speed up the killing-process, and Tidal Surge helps speed up the gathering process.

 

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3 hours ago, Azamagon said:
  • Passive
    • Mistform - All attacks directly landing on Hydroid have a 25% chance to harmlessly pass right through him.
  • Tempest Barrage
    • No longer has a chargemechanic.
      • Duration is still only 2/3/4/5 seconds, but damage is increased to 100/150/200/300 Impact damage
    • No longer ragdolls enemies (should only occur on an enemy's death)
    • Each explosion knocks down enemies
    • Each explosion reduces the enemy's current armor and shields by 1/2/3/4%, affected by Ability Strength
    • Augment: Corroding Barrage Abyssal Barrage  - Each explosion also has a 50/100/150/200% chance to cause Cold-procs on enemies, while restoring 5/10/15/20 shields to allies struck by the explosions. Can create overshields.
  • Tidal Surge
    • Base width is increased to 5/6/7/8 meters
    • Enemies struck are disarmed for 6/8/10/12 seconds - this has great synergy with all his other skills, since they are "zone" effects, as melee enemies have to rush in to these "zones")
    • Meleeing during Tidal Surge will cancel the ability early (which also triggers its ending slash-damage effect early), while also performing a slide-attack with your melee weapon!
    • Holdcast sends only the wave forward, without having Hydroid travelling along with it - functioning kinda like a big "push" ability.
      • Unlike the tapcast version, this one cannot be cancelled.
    • Enemies shooting through the surge will have the damage nullified! This makes the holdcast version a little bit safer to use too.
    • The ragdolling effect of Tidal Surge is made more gentle, just enough to deposit enemies a little bit in front of the wave when it ends.
      • This makes it better for gathering enemies at desired locations.
    • Augment: Tidal Impunity - Simply needs to be fixed from its bugs (it turns off the effect when recasting, and won't be available to be refreshed until the first one has "expired"...)
  • Undertow
    • Tapcast works just like now.
    • Holdcast causes Hydroid to place an Undertow pool at a distance (similar to how Loki places his Decoy). Max placement distance for this is 15/20/25/30 meters (affected by Ability Range)
      • A pool like this functions exactly the same as a Tapcast one (aside from the pool being static and your movement won't move the pool, and you can't shoot out any manual grab-tentacles, obviously).
    • Hydroid can go in and out of his pool by pressing to interact (default: X) while inside/on top of it. This works with both Tap- and Holdcast versions.
    • Max 1 pool can exist at a time
    • Just for clarification: If a pool is active (wether Hydroid is inside of it or not), casting the ability again removes the pool.
    • No longer drains additional energy while moving when submerged in Undertow.
    • Attacking enemies in the Undertow does not SPLIT the damage anymore. Furthermore, the damage-transfer is now 100% (instead of being reduced to 50%).
    • The manual tentaclegrab while inside a pool has its range increased to 10/15/20/25 meters.
    • Augment: Curative Undertow Treacherous Undertow - Undertow automatically tentacle-grabs an enemy (within the same range as the manual grab) every 5/4/3/2 seconds, and the damage of Undertow is increased by 10/20/30/50%.
  • Tentacle Swarm
    • No longer has a chargeup mechanic
      • Costs 100 energy and spawns 20 tentacles at base, at all times, and the spawn range for the tentacles is within a 8/10/12/15 meter radius
    • Synergy: If an Undertow is within a Tentacle Swarm's radius, all enemies in the Undertow takes additional damage as if they were all grabbed by Tentacle Swarm. This does NOT count towards the tentacle count.
      • Enemies killed in Undertow this way are subject to gain extra loot from Tentacle Swarm's augment!
      • Note: This damagecombo is added INSTEAD of the "2x damage for Tentacle Swarm when casting it from Undertow".
      • To indicate that this combo is taking place, the visible Kraken will show itself in the centre of Undertow, even if that is not the centre of Tentacle Swarm's cast.
    • Holdcast now toggles on/off wether you want the tentacles to be static, or move around. Their default setting is to move around, and whatever setting is toggled is memorized for subsequent casts.
      • When set to move around, they will move around inside of their spawning radius to go and grab enemies.
      • If an Undertow is within the swarm's spawning radius, the tentacle will move over to the Undertow and slam the enemy onto the Undertow, which also deposits this enemy into the Undertow.
        • When a tentacle places an enemy in Undertow like this, that tentacle is freed from action, allowing it to go and grab a new enemy.
        • Also remember the synergy mentioned a little above: This means that the enemy put inside the Undertow will suffer damage from both Undertow and Tentacle Swarm at the same time!
    • Attacking a tentacle will fully damage the grabbed enemy
    • Once a tentacle has grabbed an enemy, they will crush and choke it to death in a more steady fashion than now, only occassionally causing the current slam-attacks (which deals heavy impact damage in an AoE, and tries to slam enemies onto other nearby enemies).
    • If an enemy grabbed by a tentacle dies, that enemy is quickly tossed onto other enemies (or random location, if no visible enemies nearby). This throw also causes damage, with the same range and damage as the slam-attack.

I like this, but the passive is an exact copy of Xaku's passive, without the AoE damage reduction alongside it.

Also, it'd probably be better to have the Tidal Surge cancel bound to jump rather than melee, to stay consistent with Vial Rush.

Other than that, I like all these suggestions, but I doubt they'd actually get implemented, since they're pretty big changes. But to be fair, DE probably isn't taking any of our changes anyway, since Hydroid has been complained about for so long that an actual rework has probably already been planned out.

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15 hours ago, (XBOX)Regxxh said:

1) I like this, but the passive is an exact copy of Xaku's passive, without the AoE damage reduction alongside it.

2) Also, it'd probably be better to have the Tidal Surge cancel bound to jump rather than melee, to stay consistent with Vial Rush.

3) Other than that, I like all these suggestions, but I doubt they'd actually get implemented, since they're pretty big changes. But to be fair, DE probably isn't taking any of our changes anyway, since Hydroid has been complained about for so long that an actual rework has probably already been planned out.

1) Oh right, forgot about that. Tbh though, this passive I suggested was more of a "placeholder", just something minor to help with his survivability.

2) Could work as well. But halting with the melee attack is something that exists already in Excal's Slash Dash work, so I don't feel it's out of line.

3) Thanks! Yeah, I don't have a lot of hope either, but you'll never know. If they DO have something incoming for him, I hope it's Pablo that blesses him :P

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1 hour ago, Azamagon said:

1) Oh right, forgot about that. Tbh though, this passive I suggested was more of a "placeholder", just something minor to help with his survivability.

Weirdly enough, it’s not the first time someone has made that mistake. I can understand it though, since most people assume the high evasion is tied to Vast Untime, so they forgot Xaku even has a passive. 
 

For Hydroid’s passive, my idea is an effect related to plundering booty, otherwise known as credits. Originally I thought a heal would be nice, but a user suggested turning credits into ammo (the credits are still looted) for Hydroid’s equipped weapon, which I thought was a great idea, since we don’t have any ammo related passives as far as I know.

1 hour ago, Azamagon said:

2) Could work as well. But halting with the melee attack is something that exists already in Excal's Slash Dash work, so I don't feel it's out of line.

I actually had no idea this was a thing. I know I’d much rather cancel with jump, as it makes more sense in my mind, but melee could work if it’s easier for M&K users (Warframe with a keyboard sounds like a nightmare). 

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Tempest Barrage might be interesting with a Tap/Hold mechanic. 

Tap is the placed random AOE we get now. 

Hold would grant a buff on Hydroids guns that calls down the Barrage directly onto targets that get shot at.

So you'd be able to target a specific enemy to be the victim of an entire barrage with duration affecting the number of Barrage projectiles that get launched per shot. 

Essentially shooting a thing to mark it for sustained artillery fire. 

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On 2021-06-07 at 8:09 PM, (XBOX)Regxxh said:

I actually had no idea this was a thing. I know I’d much rather cancel with jump, as it makes more sense in my mind, but melee could work if it’s easier for M&K users (Warframe with a keyboard sounds like a nightmare). 

Why not both?

Jump = Cancel

Melee = Immediate slide attack

As for your credits->ammo, it's not the first time I've seen that, actually. It's thematic to his piracy, so it could work.

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