Raging Over The 'zerker 'frame

[Othergrunty]

I think the "feline" part was meant to be more "feral" but as you say the design lacks the physical strength appearance to be the later, making her look more like the former. More bulk would definetly improve the design.

 

Though reminds me a bit to Torchlight II, where the Bezerker class looks physical identical to the other classes (Engineer, Outlander, Embermage) but is defined by the feral stance and behaviour (sniffing the air, roaring, twitchy movements)

 

Also funny that you mentiod Ember, since with the clawed feet and the origin of her creation, she looks like the dissected female Warframe was actualy an Ember (according to the backstory she needs to have worn an existing Warframe exo-suit before getting captured), ironical given the statement that Ember is NOT a warrior. But here we are with a female warrior frame who has the same physical build as her. Or can someone explain how a Nyx, Mag, Nova, Trinity or Saryn could result in frame looking like this?

 

Can we actualy talk about skin and muscles there? After all it's an armor and not the pyhsical skin of the wearer, so i think armored layer is the better word for it.

 

Took me a few seconds to realise the halo-ish thing on the back of the head is a restraining device. Talking about it, yeah the collar makes her look more like a dog on a leash than an escaped monster. The collar needs to look broken open. Like dangling from her neck, still connected to the halo-device on the back of the neck, because that's a bit harder to remove, what with the screws in the head.

 

As for the abilities.

Using Shield as energy for attacks might sound berzerkerish but for me it sounds more suicidal since there is no real mechanic to avoid damage without shield. Block is useless and enemies past 50 auto aim like crazy being able to hit you before they should be even aware where you are. Meaning every second without shield is insane unless you have a Shade which only helps slightly.

 

Yeah intimidate sounds like another version of terrify and just frustrates players who want to kill the enemies right there instead of having to chase them. Especialy when you want to melee them. This is highly annoying when playing Loki with Sentinel. When you cloak ranged enemies will spot your Sentinel and run away into cover forcing you to run after them.

 

I agree pulling enemies towards the player would be a good alternative, i would add giving them increased damage they recieve or lowering their armor percentage. So you can rip them appart easier.

 

The abilities to reduce her to melee only sound cool on paper, but when playing with other players who still use THEIR guns and the stupidity of enemies, this can easily backfire in multiple ways. Since you might simply run out of enemies before you can do any damn with the ability. Especialy when there is a Nova around you who simply two hit kills the entire room.

[SIDESTRE4M]

Whoooo, I somehow feared they wouldn't have the balls to make her a bit more bulky... or at least more muscular looking (maybe it will look better ingame or when it's finished... dunno)

 

I think the restraints as syandana is a great idea. If not... well. Then I have to see, if it will bother me or not.

 

The melee skill... clear wave or die. xD

 

I hope this isn't final yet.

[Amistyrja]

She looks really feral to me. imo, her 4th ability should let her regenerate lost health and/or shields when dealing damage or something.

[Phoenix86]

I dislike both Intimidate and last stand...

 

the first because seriously... armor buff? who the hell care about it? and i hate fleeing enemies...

 

and last stand would be hard to determine "which enemies were around when casted and must die in order to avoid dmg" also it should give a speed boost too since we are going melee only (unless this frame is gonna have a base speed of 1.2 or higher)

 

 

Shield Bash is nice if the % of shield converted to dmg is further increased somehow... like Mag's Shield Polarize which drains 50% shields and than improve that value by 250% as dmg dealts in the AoE

[Modeaus]

She's too feminine. I don't need %$# on my frame I need synthetic muscle covered in plate armor. The dissection here should have bee removing the plate so that we see the frames innards. Make her an amazonian bad &#!.

 

This should give her really low armor but high health making her a health tank. Skills can then line up for heal on melee (maybe a team buff).

 

Add an ultimate with x1, x3, x5 stackable melee damage multiplier per kill or plus duration per kill. This would make you play the frame fast and aggressively. You need to kill to survive and the faster you kill the more powerful you are.

 

This would make the frame almost untouchable unless you run out of close targets OR get KD'd and can't kill before you debuff. You might also consider using frame mods other than Focus, Stretch, Flow, & Streamline. KD recovery, extra stamina?

 

Imagine stacking with Roar, Speed, & Prime (Rhino, Volt, Nova). You suddenly have a high damage team build which also covers the bases of CC and shield/health regen. 

 

if they get these skills right this could be the best and most well rounded frame to date.

[TheResult]

The "beefiness" of frames ( such as Rhino and Saryn ), or at least their amount of armor-plating, seems to have a direct synthesis with the amount of a beating they can take-- those particular frames have more shields, health, etc than others. So, given the Berserker's absolute lack of any plating at all, one has to wonder if she'll have equally-flimsy shields ( and absolutely no armor value ). And, if so, how useful will shield bash actually be?

 

This is on top of my forum-consistent complaint that DE keeps handing us slender, skinny female Warframes, who all share the same bodytype ( not including legs, usually knee-downward )-- while the male Warframes get various different bodtypes, such as Rhino, Vauban, Nekros, etc. It's a very sexist, pandering double-standard.

[ssh83]

What's wrong with a feline berserker anyways?

 

Conan and Hulk aren't the only kinds of berserkers.

 

I think we already have enough bulky, slow melee frames.  I want more agile melee frames that are actually viable at lvl 100.

 

I think instead of giving up the current design of the frame, which is interesting and I'm definitely buying at day one.  Maybe to please the nit-picky people who doesn't know the value of game design, just change the name of the frame to something that doesn't conflict with their idea of what a berserker is.

Edited October 19, 2013 by ssh83

[ssh83]

Also to bring some balance to silly nit-picky, how about let's turn the table?

 

Why doesn't she-hulk's cloth ever get torn off completely like male hulk?  Unrealistic!

 

Why do people complain about women exposing skin in battle being dumb but berserkers being topless is totally ok?  Arrow to the heart will kill anyone no matter how "tough" you are. "Berserkers" in real life battlefield still wear armor.

 

It's also silly that people always judge a fighter by the thickness of their muscle.  Would you like to fight any shaolin monk?   Just because a fighter's arm isn't over 6 inch think doesn't mean they can't pull off the berserk style.  Look at Bruce Lee.  Now THAT's a nice berserker model that would be a breath of fresh air.

[Yg-Dosst]

What's wrong with a feline berserker anyways?

 

Conan and Hulk aren't the only kinds of berserkers.

 

I think we already have enough bulky, slow melee frames.  I want more agile melee frames that are actually viable at lvl 100.

 

I think instead of giving up the current design of the frame, which is interesting and I'm definitely buying at day one.  Maybe to please the nit-picky people who doesn't know the value of game design, just change the name of the frame to something that doesn't conflict with their idea of what a berserker is.

Bulky and slow isn't the point.

The point is that people are legitimately convinced this is a catwoman or BDSM frame (whips are coming out as weapons) from how conflicting the design is.

Muscle is muscle, and as much as we can bull$%!+ the idea that "the suit does it for her" it doesn't look that way.

If you can't rip and tear out their huge guts, then you just can't be a berserker.

Like I said, I'm not asking for a Rhino with %$#, they just need to put more detail and increase the muscle structure on the upper body, collarbone, and neck.

Trying to keep the "curvatious" on a skinless, torn apart abomination is actually more nasty than making her an abomination.

Why are they trying to make her figure attractive?

[Drazhar14]

This warframe is.... eww. Both the appearance and the abilities. 

I think the collar and wrist cuffs need to go. I get that she escaped from the Corpus, but why would she keep wearing those? She should just rip them off with her berserker strength. Oh wait, she can't because she appears to have no upper body muscles. 

 

Her ult sounds like a death trap on high level missions the way it currently works. I think it would be better to gain rapid health regen for herself instead of invulnerability. And eliminate that she takes all damage if she doesn't kill everyone around her thing. 

[Medane]

I really don't think they need to add unnecessary bulk.  Tenno aren't human.  A zerker doesn't need to be Mr/Mrs Hulk to smash through everything.  It could very much be like a Blitzkrieg Warframe that may not necessarily have the best defenses to Rhino (Who fits his "tank" role).  Honestly, a Zerker is fast attacker, not a slow IMA TAKE ALL THE HITS frame when I see it.  

 

To be honest, I really dig the design.  I like the slimness.  A lightning bruiser.  

[Yg-Dosst]

Also to bring some balance to silly nit-picky, how about let's turn the table?

 

Why doesn't she-hulk's cloth ever get torn off completely like male hulk?  Unrealistic!

 

Why do people complain about women exposing skin in battle being dumb but berserkers being topless is totally ok?  Arrow to the heart will kill anyone no matter how "tough" you are. "Berserkers" in real life battlefield still wear armor.

 

It's also silly that people always judge a fighter by the thickness of their muscle.  Would you like to fight any shaolin monk?   Just because a fighter's arm isn't over 6 inch think doesn't mean they can't pull off the berserk style.  Look at Bruce Lee.  Now THAT's a nice berserker model that would be a breath of fresh air.

 

Your average Shaolin monk has a bit more muscle density than even her.

But yes. Monk-esque Physique would be something lovely on her.

 

It certainly doesn't need to be Rhino levels of buff.

But that's not nearly as bad as leaving her the way she is.

 

A happy medium would be in order.

[SIDESTRE4M]

i would have liked to see a bit more muscles because of the beserker theme... that's all. She doesn't need to be on par with Rhino, but she should have a bit more than existing females frames to make a difference to Nyx for example, who really looks like she could break apart any second.

 

I mean, these are warriors... why do they have to look like they actually never seen physical combat? Apart from Nekros, every male frame looks at least atlethic.

[Cursor]

I agree with more or less the entire post.

 

I just want to add that I DO take umbrage with the "PMS joke" thing. There's a lot of problems with female characters(in most all media) being strong.  There's almost always conditions attached.  One of the big ones is that female characters can't be strong unless they are sexy.  Another is they can't be strong unless they were broken.

 

This character trips both of them.  Hysterical woman trope.  I mean that IS the origin of the word.  Hysterical.

 

"For at least two thousand years of European history until the late nineteenth century hysteria referred to a medical condition thought to be particular to women and caused by disturbances of the uterus (from the Greek ὑστέρα "hystera" = uterus), such as when a neonate emerges from the female birth canal."  --Wikipedia quote

 

 

She's not a strong furious warrior.  She's not a berserker, veteran of a thousand battles.  She's not imposing or strong looking.

 

She's a thin weak little thing, wearing the collar of her captor.  An angry little pussy cat.  She's a beaten dog biting back at her master.

 

It wouldn't take much to stop this, honestly.  Redesign her a bit so her design gives a glaring and obvious explanation for her strength.  Such as an exaggerated musculature.  Perhaps a larger frame(er, in the common sense).  Just... something.

 

Just posting so I can share this well articulated reply again.  This pretty much covers the issues with the berserker's appearance.

[ValhaHazred]

Also to bring some balance to silly nit-picky, how about let's turn the table?

 

Why doesn't she-hulk's cloth ever get torn off completely like male hulk?  Unrealistic!

 

Why do people complain about women exposing skin in battle being dumb but berserkers being topless is totally ok?  Arrow to the heart will kill anyone no matter how "tough" you are. "Berserkers" in real life battlefield still wear armor.

Because unlike the Hulk, Jennifer Walters thought ahead and bought an unstable molecule outfit off of Hank Pym. And it's not like Hulk's pants ever come off. If Hulk was entirely realistic he'd be swinging in the breeze like a green Dr. Manhattan.

Edit: Now that I'm thinking about it, in the recent comics Hulk has a suit of Vibranium Power armour that grows with him too, so no more magic pants dilemma.

Actually the historical Berserkers where mostly naked. The name Berserker comes from old Norse for "bear pelt", because that is pretty much all they wore into battle.

Edited October 19, 2013 by ValhaHazred

[Yg-Dosst]

I really don't think they need to add unnecessary bulk.  Tenno aren't human.  A zerker doesn't need to be Mr/Mrs Hulk to smash through everything.  It could very much be like a Blitzkrieg Warframe that may not necessarily have the best defenses to Rhino (Who fits his "tank" role).  Honestly, a Zerker is fast attacker, not a slow IMA TAKE ALL THE HITS frame when I see it.  

 

To be honest, I really dig the design.  I like the slimness.  A lightning bruiser.  

 

Well the Key word here is "Unnecessary"

 

Like I said many time.

I does NOT need to be Female Flesh Rhino.

 

Raise and emphasize the shoulders and collar bone slightly.

It looks like she's not even able to lift up those gauntlets embedded into her arms.

 

Go for a Shaolin-Monk or Bruce Lee Physique, the nice lean and sinuous kind of strength.

If anyone is a better representation of a "Thin, Fast, Agility, Beserker" Bruce Lee would probably be it, just inject some PCP into the personality.

[YourFriendlyNoggin]

I had no interest in the gender complaints about beserker being female, gender-neutrality all the way, but these appearance complaints are justified in that she looks like a cat frame, if her abilities use her claws in swiping movements then I will laugh all the way back to trinity. I get that people don't want an female orc sized frame but was female boxer too much of a stretch for body size, you know a realistic size for someone focusing on melee combat?

Also if I didn't make that clear the claws are ridiculous, might as well give her a button nose and a furry tail.

[__Kanade__]

Armored while still showing her muscle.

[Boomstick720]

Maybe its just me, but I feel like no one here has actually seen an actually really strong woman.

 

I'm not talking like bodybuilder women, I'm talking women who are actually just really athletes who are really good.  For example, lets look at swimmers, who typically have unnaturally strong shoulders.

 

Here is a picture of Missy Franklin, the current best female swimmer in the world as of 2012.  http://www.ryanseacrest.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/MissyFranklin_900-600-03-04-13.jpg

 

She should be a monster right?  After all, its not like swimming is an easy sport, and it requires a lot of muscle to do it effectively.  So why does she look... well not like a monster?  At all?  I mean, shes obviously incredibly strong, shouldn't she look it?

 

Well maybe swimming is an exception.  After all, they need to be aerodynamic right?

 

Okay lets look at tennis, which requires fast feet, a very strong core, and strong arms.  Lets look at three- serena williams, victoria azarenka, and maria sharpova.   These three are currently the top 3 female players in the world.  Lets take a look.

 

Serena, who by far looks the most "muscled"-http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.958916!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_635/alg-score-serena-williams-jpg.jpg

 

Victoria- http://www.tennisworldusa.org/Editor/Img/Victoria-Azarenka-img8385_668.jpg

 

Maria, as if no one already knew- http://static3.businessinsider.com/image/51c60126ecad04d776000008/maria-sharapova-blasts-serena-williams-criticizes-her-love-life.jpg

 

Now, out of these 3 women, who again are the best in the world at what they do, only the first looks abnormally muscled, or with notable muscle mass that sets her apart as an athlete.

 

Now, why is berzerker supposed to be this beefy she-hulk again?  I mean, its not like these women are weak in the slightest sense, but they sure don't look like all-star she hulks (serena is probably the closest to that).  

 

Now before someone jumps in shouting "nergh but warframe doesn't have realism, with all its techno space ninjas with super powers", just stop.  The reason that this thread even exists is because someone stated its not realistic.  You can't have realism apply to some frames but not to others.  

Edited October 19, 2013 by Boomstick720

[--Q--uaint]

Also to bring some balance to silly nit-picky, how about let's turn the table?

 

Why doesn't she-hulk's cloth ever get torn off completely like male hulk?  Unrealistic!

 

Why do people complain about women exposing skin in battle being dumb but berserkers being topless is totally ok?  Arrow to the heart will kill anyone no matter how "tough" you are. "Berserkers" in real life battlefield still wear armor.

 

It's also silly that people always judge a fighter by the thickness of their muscle.  Would you like to fight any shaolin monk?   Just because a fighter's arm isn't over 6 inch think doesn't mean they can't pull off the berserk style.  Look at Bruce Lee.  Now THAT's a nice berserker model that would be a breath of fresh air.

 

Your average Shaolin monk has a bit more muscle density than even her.

But yes. Monk-esque Physique would be something lovely on her.

 

It certainly doesn't need to be Rhino levels of buff.

But that's not nearly as bad as leaving her the way she is.

 

A happy medium would be in order.

 

A Shaolin monk/Bruce Lee build would probably help, I agree.

 

However, in reference to the "toughness" comment.... The reason the .45 caliber Police Special was invented was because it had stopping power. Previously, they just made the bullets really small and really fast, so you could wound as many people as possible with one bullet. This was great against most people because most people have serious issues with receiving new holes.

 

It fell flat against the Berzerkers for one reason: they were so jazzed up they didn't feel pain. It doesn't matter that you killed the berzerker if he doesn't figure it out until after he's planted his axe in your brain.

Sure. He bleeds out, but you don't care anymore because you're very much dead.

[TheResult]

-snip-

 

I understand what you're saying. Really, I do. But I want you to look at the pictures of the women you just posted for a moment.

 

Now, I want you to look at the female Warframe we just got. In fact, look at all of our female Warframes.

 

The women in those photos you posted all had somewhat similar traits, but still had differences in their muscle mass / thickness-- albeit it looks like most of them had strong shoulders, and didn't have midsections that looked like they were secretly all wearing corsets and crushing their stomachs inward. Meanwhile, every single one of our female Warframes? They do. The female Warframes have low, weak shoulders-- you can tell, even though most of them are wearing armor around the shoulder area-- and they all have a definite hourglass "curve" around their sides that looks like they're wearing corsets under their armor and squeezing their stomachs inward. And those women you posted don't have that ) ( curve. They have more of a | | flat body.

 

Now, some people have gone so far as to point out that body build doesn't even matter-- that the suits do all the work anyway, so just because she's supposed to be "powerful" doesn't mean she needs any amount of thickness or muscle to her. But the fact that their body mass doesn't affect their powers is what makes this even more disgusting: We COULD have a thicker, stronger female Warframe, we COULD have all sorts of different female bodytypes in the game. We have many different male types: Look at, and compare, Rhino, or Vauban, or Nekros. But instead, we get the same pandering, sexist double-standard female bodytype for every single female Warframe. That's disappointing, and the only reason for it is "marketability".

 

And that reason is awful.

 

And I expect better.

[Katakuna]

Now, why is berzerker supposed to be this beefy she-hulk again?  I mean, its not like these women are weak in the slightest sense, but they sure don't look like all-star she hulks (serena is probably the closest to that).  

 

If you do a side-by-side comparison, those women are better built than Berserker is (especially Serena), and are more in line with what we want.  "Buff up Berserker, but don't make her a Rhino," as the OP has been saying since the start of the thread.

Edited October 19, 2013 by Katakuna

[SIDESTRE4M]

Maybe its just me, but I feel like no one here has actually seen an actually really strong woman.

 

I'm not talking like bodybuilder women, I'm talking women who are actually just really athletes who are really good.  For example, lets look at swimmers, who typically have unnaturally strong shoulders.

 

Here is a picture of Missy Franklin, the current best female swimmer in the world as of 2012.  http://www.ryanseacrest.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/MissyFranklin_900-600-03-04-13.jpg

 

She should be a monster right?  After all, its not like swimming is an easy sport, and it requires a lot of muscle to do it effectively.  So why does she look... well not like a monster?  At all?  I mean, shes obviously incredibly strong, shouldn't she look it?

 

Well maybe swimming is an exception.  After all, they need to be aerodynamic right?

 

Okay lets look at tennis, which requires fast feet, a very strong core, and strong arms.  Lets look at three- serena williams, victoria azarenka, and maria sharpova.   These three are currently the top 3 female players in the world.  Lets take a look.

 

Serena, who by far looks the most "muscled"-http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.958916!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_635/alg-score-serena-williams-jpg.jpg

 

Victoria- http://www.tennisworldusa.org/Editor/Img/Victoria-Azarenka-img8385_668.jpg

 

Maria, as if no one already knew- http://static3.businessinsider.com/image/51c60126ecad04d776000008/maria-sharapova-blasts-serena-williams-criticizes-her-love-life.jpg

 

Now, out of these 3 women, who again are the best in the world at what they do, only the first looks abnormally muscled, or with notable muscle mass that sets her apart as an athlete.

 

Now, why is berzerker supposed to be this beefy she-hulk again?  I mean, its not like these women are weak in the slightest sense, but they sure don't look like all-star she hulks (serena is probably the closest to that).  

 

Now before someone jumps in shouting "nergh but warframe doesn't have realism, with all its techno space ninjas with super powers", just stop.  The reason that this thread even exists is because someone stated its not realistic.  You can't have realism apply to some frames but not to others.

Maybe I'm wrong but you know, you build up muscles for what you do and for some reason I guess a sword is little haevier than a tennis racket.

The difference in weight lifters and stamina type athletes is quite obvious too.

Whatever, berserkers are people with a screw lose. The adrenalin would boost their strength anyways. Ironically, Volt's speed would represent that quite perfectly.

I think, Rhino dimensions are out of question, but a bit more than Ember or Nova would be nice.

[ValhaHazred]

Shouldn't you be comparing soldiers and professional fighters instead of athletes?

[DavidSPD]

That's not my point.

Everyone is talking about a berserker and comparing it to a bruiser like the berserker is supposed to be a giant hulk.

The key of a berserker is rage, not strength.

Everyone makes it seem like her being muscular is a mandate when it is not.

He brought up facts about berserkers in real life, I know a tiny bit about it and asked him to present information of them needing to be buff.

As far as I know no such fact exists that mandates them being muscular like Rhino.

So why should it exist?

It should not.

Please understand the argument before you enter it.

Firstly, you'd have to be the worst berserker in the world if your key element is rage, and strength plays no part. What kind of berserker would be respectable and noteworthy if they can't kill a person because they're frail? They're just a pathetic psychopath at that point. I knew people in my younger years that were mentally unstable and would go into rages but since they weren't strong they mostly just flailed around and hurt themselves, damage to other people or objects was minimal.

Secondly, I understand the argument just fine. I'm just trying to keep things on topic since you further derailing the thread just to prove you're right doesn't help the point of the thread. The couple pages after arguing what a "real life" berserker is proves that trying to stay on topic is better since once again video games =/= real life.

Ember looks much more masculine than this berserker does and Ember's suit allows her to shoot fire. How does that make sense? It's obvious that the design of the suits aren't supposed to line up with the warframe's power exactly, but this is what people are asking because it makes sense, logically. Real life or video game inspiration the problem is that there needs to be a clear visual cue of what each warframe is and does. Older warframes lack this and people are asking for future warframes to make sense in that.

This warframe is mostly sexualized in the sense that she's supposed to be formerly restrained, the only trait that says "berserker" and nearly naked woman with nice curves. Nobody sees a enraged berserker when they look at her, and people that argue otherwise just like the way she looks and are willing to ignore the naming or are incredibly ignorant.

 

I don't think I've seen anybody request Rhino levels of mass but historically the word "berserker" in video games is associated with physical prowess and/or intimidating stature and inhuman levels of destructive desire. Consensus so far is that people don't see that in this warframe from the concept.

Edited October 19, 2013 by DavidSPD